so you can cloak with prox det?!?

Decado · January 2016

just fought a magicka NB who set up prox det went into cloak and hit me concealed weapon and prox det from stealth at the same time, and the big red circle saying there is a prox det stayed where he cloaked and didnt move when he did, is it intended for them to get the stealth bonus on prox det and concealed weapon?

im not one to call for nerfs or anything im just asking is this supposed to happen cos that is insane if it is.

riverdragon72 · January 2016

WAI I'm sure.

Molag_Crow · January 2016

Yep, more proof of NB advantages

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2016

Well knowing ZOS they'll say "working as intended". Translation "we don't care were just gonna nerf DKs and Templars more".

SemiD4rkness · January 2016

That's not op at all.... It just goes to show how perfectly balanced Nightblades are.

revonine · January 2016

That NB obviously timed the explosion from proxy det with a concealed weapon strike. It's the only option we have for burst. Stamblade is far superior.

The red ring remained because it was the location of where you last saw the NB before he/she cloaked. Activating Proxy det pulls you out of cloak but the explosion only does if you hit someone with it.

Kammakazi · January 2016

You had 8 seconds to bring him out of stealth......

Decado · January 2016

yeah he timed it so he hit me with both pretty much immediately, i know its possible to time ambush and surprise(and magicka moprhs) attack to hit almost at the same time and both get stealth bonus, and i agree stamblades are superior and hit much harder,

i didnt know it was only the activation and explosion that stopped the stealth revonine, i always thought the red rings showed up no matter what, it seemed a good compromise for me, when these bomb groups timed there dets they lite up the keep they were attacking and gave people warning a good compromise IMO,

yes i had 8 seconds to take him out of stealth and didnt, has nothing to do with the question of whether it was intended or not does it.

lolo_01b16_ESO · January 2016

All attacks that hit within 0.5 sec get the stealth bonus. This is more often used by stamina builds (especially nb or dk gankers), but magicka nbs can also benefit from it.

revonine · January 2016

It's intended for the time being. There's gonna be more blanket changes next update and proxy det will probably be adjusted yet again so it functions as a zerg buster and not for single target or zerg helper.

Draxys · January 2016

the red circle thing is a graphical error, it doesn't do that when I see an enemy NB cloak with prox det active. Not usually at least

revonine · January 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

All attacks that hit within 0.5 sec get the stealth bonus. This is more often used by stamina builds (especially nb or dk gankers), but magicka nbs can also benefit from it.

I though magicka attacks do not get a stealth bonus? Or are you refering to the NB passive? If so I apologize.

Alcast · January 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Well knowing ZOS they'll say "working as intended". Translation "we don't care were just gonna nerf DKs and Templars more".

truth has been spoken

driosketch · January 2016

Sounds like a graphical bug, or maybe due to lag or FPS drops. I think I've seen the ring move with a cloaked NB before.

DannyLV702 · January 2016

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

driosketch · January 2016

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

J2JMC · January 2016

driosketch wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

I don't think you shouldn't be able to cloak at all. I do think that the ring along with the engine guardian sphere should move while a player is cloaked. Those are most definitely changes I could agree with as someone who plays both mag and stam nightblade. No reason the sphere at the very least shouldn't give away the location

revonine · January 2016

driosketch wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

What would you suggest magblades do to stay competitive in this crap fest of a current meta then?

I suppose it's moot anyway. If they'e going to change how detonation works in the next update both magblades and Sorcs will lose it for single target DPS.

MaxwellC · January 2016

I think prox det and its morphs shouldn't receive any stealth bonuses infact it should make you visible while you're using the det that makes you the center of it (not sure if its inevitable or proximity). When you get hit for a 9k prox det from a MagNB we've got a problem especially since they just spam ambush or surprise attack after it hits.

I'm also not a far of that swallow soul or whatever the ability that is an AoE HP leech as they nerf'd DKs inhale ability because it provided too much survivability supposedly so how is it fair for that ability to remain un-touched I have no clue.

Lexxypwns · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

I think prox det and its morphs shouldn't receive any stealth bonuses infact it should make you visible while you're using the det that makes you the center of it (not sure if its inevitable or proximity). When you get hit for a 9k prox det from a MagNB we've got a problem especially since they just spam ambush or surprise attack after it hits.

I'm also not a far of that swallow soul or whatever the ability that is an AoE HP leech as they nerf'd DKs inhale ability because it provided too much survivability supposedly so how is it fair for that ability to remain un-touched I have no clue.

ambush and surprise attack are stamblade skills, a build using proxy det and those 2 skills would be wasting an entire skill slot on a proxy det that's gonna hit for like, 4k?

NB aoe is sap essence for magblades, however, unlike DK they recieve no reflect so extra healing from sap does nothing against the snipe spam, with DK inhale they gained a pbaoe + heal while also having a hard counter to all ranged attacks, while I don't think magika DK is in a good place, I do believe inhale and its morphs are

revonine · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

I think prox det and its morphs shouldn't receive any stealth bonuses infact it should make you visible while you're using the det that makes you the center of it (not sure if its inevitable or proximity). When you get hit for a 9k prox det from a MagNB we've got a problem especially since they just spam ambush or surprise attack after it hits.

I'm also not a far of that swallow soul or whatever the ability that is an AoE HP leech as they nerf'd DKs inhale ability because it provided too much survivability supposedly so how is it fair for that ability to remain un-touched I have no clue.

Proxy Det doesn't receive stealth bonuses. It will benefit from a NB passive that increases spell/weapon damage will invisible though. To be quite honest magblades hit like wet noodles compared to the likes of a Sorc or any stamina build and it takes many many more times the effort on behalf of the player to pull out comparable damage to that of said Sorcs or stamina builds with them. The skills you just mentioned are stamina morphs.

driosketch · January 2016

J2JMC wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

I don't think you shouldn't be able to cloak at all. I do think that the ring along with the engine guardian sphere should move while a player is cloaked. Those are most definitely changes I could agree with as someone who plays both mag and stam nightblade. No reason the sphere at the very least shouldn't give away the location

If the ring gives your position away anyways, it wouldn't really make much difference. The sphere at least can be engaged separately.

revonine wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

What would you suggest magblades do to stay competitive in this crap fest of a current meta then? I suppose it's moot anyway. If they'e going to change how detonation works in the next update both magblades and Sorcs will lose it for single target DPS.

As a templar, I should feel bad for you? That doesn't excuse a zerg buster being used in this way. Mag Det takes a fair amount of AP to unlock as well, so unless you already had the ranks, your build needed to be viable well before you unlock it.

danno8 · January 2016

No skills that use Magicka get the stealth bonus multiplier (the big one, not the NB specific passive).

Even Concealed Weapon doesn't get the big stealth bonus because it uses Magicka.

revonine · January 2016

driosketch wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

I don't think you shouldn't be able to cloak at all. I do think that the ring along with the engine guardian sphere should move while a player is cloaked. Those are most definitely changes I could agree with as someone who plays both mag and stam nightblade. No reason the sphere at the very least shouldn't give away the location

If the ring gives your position away anyways, it wouldn't really make much difference. The sphere at least can be engaged separately.

revonine wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

The ring is not supposed to move, otherwise it'd make the invisibility useless. Same with Engine Guardian.

Running will cancel cloak. If anything, you shouldn't be able to cloak with Prox Det active in the first place.

What would you suggest magblades do to stay competitive in this crap fest of a current meta then? I suppose it's moot anyway. If they'e going to change how detonation works in the next update both magblades and Sorcs will lose it for single target DPS.

As a templar, I should feel bad for you? That doesn't excuse a zerg buster being used in this way. Mag Det takes a fair amount of AP to unlock as well, so unless you already had the ranks, your build needed to be viable well before you unlock it.

Templars use Proxy Det this way too because they lack the same type of burst, together with the toppling charge guaranteed knockdown it's impossible to dodge it. I'm not ignorant of Templar class issues, I have my fingers crossed you get addressed in the same update that detonation will.

CP5 · January 2016

To answer the red ring staying in place question, thats likely since your client knew that as the last location of the NB. You can also notice that sounds of skills (such as bow heavy attacks) play from the persons last known location, so you can know when a ganker is going back on the offensive by standing next to where you last saw them and listening. It wasn't always like this, but I don't recall when it was changed, think about the same time that sneaking got the black shroud visual.

MaxwellC · January 2016

@Lexxypwns actually every class can use a reflect but choose not to, it's in the one hand shield skill tree (look it up).
Sorcs use it all the time when they have meteor I'd reflect it and they'll reflect it back using bolstered defence and I'd get hit with it automatically.
I'm also not sure if you're quite not understanding inhale and it's morphs correctly because they don't do enough damage for it to be a go to thing to use in a crowd; prior to the nerf it was a go to thing to use. Survivability was DKs strengths in PvP but unfortunately all the QQing took away our ulti regen, regeneration, and skills.

@revonine I don't know about that even if they do not receive the stealth bonus (thought they did) it does infact hit like a truck against single targets (which isn't intended, it's suppose to be a anti group ability). I've been hit 5k+ back to back with a max hit of 12k from a regular player. That person wasn't a sorc but a NB, sorcs on the other hand hit for 5k-8k as far as I remember. Don't get me started when you stack fear along with prox det too......

MrGigglypants · January 2016

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Yep, more proof of NB advantages

Because you can't just aoe him out of the cloak can you

revonine · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@revonine I don't know about that even if they do not receive the stealth bonus (thought they did) it does infact hit like a truck against single targets (which isn't intended, it's suppose to be a anti group ability). I've been hit 5k+ back to back with a max hit of 12k from a regular player. That person wasn't a sorc but a NB, sorcs on the other hand hit for 5k-8k as far as I remember. Don't get me started when you stack fear along with prox det too......

Yeah not even Concealed Weapon does as danno8 pointed out. It will grant the stun but no stealth multiplier. I'd argue Sorcs make better use of Detonation that a NB does. I work hard for kills on my magblade. On my Sorc, apply Det, Curse, Fury, insta frag, Dawnbreaker will kill most opponents I use it on. And it's pure easy mode. If I could irritate my opponents to death with cloak I would, but the name of the game in PvP is to kill and Sorcs do it far more easily and effectivly (while tanking better than DK's) xD

TheBonesXXX · January 2016

Lack of burst is lacking, buff the damage to Magicka NB, prox det really is necessary.

Master_Kas · January 2016

Has been like this for a while now. You can do the same with a invis pot

revonine · January 2016

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Lack of burst is lacking, buff the damage to Magicka NB, prox det really is necessary.

If they change proxy det back to what was originally intended magblade will be awesome for zergbusting. 1v1 options though will be seriously lacking. You don't have the damage of a Sorc or the heals of a templar.