Does Nords need passive buffs?

sneakymitchell · January 2016

I was wondering that most people use now a days will be orc even though they have a passive change to the weapon damage so they can compete. I seen that most races have their passives upgraded. I play as a nord Dk and I don't know they need a little more buffs and/or Agronains cause the potion consuming is fine but most don't. I just wanted to make sure cause most the time in PvP and PvE damage of stamina passives or magicka as well. I don't want increase Stamina on nords I just want them to compete in some of it not be a Tank to be just thrown in there in the battlefield in PvP and couple secs later get kill cause the fast paced PvP.

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

I personally think they should buff Nord's passive's. In the Nord Description they are strong like Orc's.

-Nord

Nord is the first human race that arrived in Tamriel. They do not have anything special except fair hair. They are more muscular than most other races. Only orcs are larger. They have strong bodies and they are good melee warriors. Many of them live in Skyrim - land of ice, mountains and snow. Nords respect strength and they are prideful people who like glory and honor.

So based on this information you can see why Nord's got their passive's.

-Robust: A trait Orc's have. Strong melee warrior's tend to have this.
-Two handed Expertise: They are good melee warrior's
-Resist Frost: Homeland is skyrim, land of ice. Seem's right.
-Rugged: Warranted because they are muscular.

Orc's being the larger race are technically stronger. So this is why they deal more melee damage. This is also why they are faster because they can carry the weight and still move with ease.

I personally think Resist Frost should receive a huge buff. 3% maximum health is nothing, if this passive granted 15% maximum health, well now it's okay to not receive a damage buff like orc's. I think Nord's should have the most maximum health in the game. They are very strongly built but also live in the harsh climate of skyrim. They must have very thick skin. Which is why the health bonus should be huge.

I wanted to throw this bit of information in as well. It only require's 10 point's in elemental expert to be 5% resistant to frost, fire and shock. This is almost double the passive of resist frost but your gaining resist to all 3 element's. Such a joke of a passive.

However any Race with 10% stamina recovery is 30 point's in Mooncalf. This just show's how pathetic Nord passive's really are.

To end this comment off.

Buff Resist Frost to 15% resist and maximum health to 15%. This would make Nord's way more competitive in my opinion.

If this buff actually happened, you could run a mean maximum health/regen build. I know i would. Use that new Wrothgar recipe with Maximum Hp with Hp regen , it would be so good. For once being a stage 1 vampire might actually be utilized with this build.

MAKE IT HAPPEN ZOS! *drop's mic*

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

@sneakymitchell

Yeah i hear you.

Every race should have a unique play-style where they are better then other's. Giving Nord's this health bonus would make them a very good choice for tanky/bruiser type build's. They would be especially good for maxing out health and health regeneration build's.

Nord's should be the most durable race out their. They are the 2nd strongest but live in the harshest of environment's. There is a reason why Nord's have thin hair, they always wear hat's since it's so cold. Any other race would need to wear twice as many hat's as Nord's do in skyrim xD .

I agree that they should not have more damage. They should be built tough... built skyrim tough.

Give Nord's the Frost Resist and Maximum health they deserve!

@Wrobel

sneakymitchell · January 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I personally think they should buff Nord's passive's. In the Nord Description they are strong like Orc's.

-Nord

Nord is the first human race that arrived in Tamriel. They do not have anything special except fair hair. They are more muscular than most other races. Only orcs are larger. They have strong bodies and they are good melee warriors. Many of them live in Skyrim - land of ice, mountains and snow. Nords respect strength and they are prideful people who like glory and honor.

So based on this information you can see why Nord's got their passive's.

-Robust: A trait Orc's have. Strong melee warrior's tend to have this.
-Two handed Expertise: They are good melee warrior's
-Resist Frost: Homeland is skyrim, land of ice. Seem's right.
-Rugged: Warranted because they are muscular.

Orc's being the larger race are technically stronger. So this is why they deal more melee damage. This is also why they are faster because they can carry the weight and still move with ease.

I personally think Resist Frost should receive a huge buff. 3% maximum health is nothing, if this passive granted 15% maximum health, well now it's okay to not receive a damage buff like orc's. I think Nord's should have the most maximum health in the game. They are very strongly built but also live in the harsh climate of skyrim. They must have very thick skin. Which is why the health bonus should be huge.

I wanted to throw this bit of information in as well. It only require's 10 point's in elemental expert to be 5% resistant to frost, fire and shock. This is almost double the passive of resist frost but your gaining resist to all 3 element's. Such a joke of a passive.

However any Race with 10% stamina recovery is 30 point's in Mooncalf. This just show's how pathetic Nord passive's really are.

To end this comment off.

Buff Resist Frost to 15% resist and maximum health. This would make Nord's way more competitive in my opinion.

If this buff actually happened. You could run a mean maximum health/regen build. I know i would.

Agree with that Imperial could be close to nords with passives but more health than nords but it like almost compares to nords with the rugged and imperial health passive is 3% more than imperial. Zenimax wanted that so people buy the imperial edition to make some money. I say that what you said more health and frost resist should be a great thing for their passive. Imperial edition should be a novelty character with good stats but most would buy that than become a nord with the passives a little stronger than nords.

In the end Buy Imperial Edition = more money for Zenimax. So that you could have a great tanking build with imperial who fought battles all the time. > nords who are ain't much tough as them who drinks alot.

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

To be honest, a lot of people will purchase the Imperial Edition for the Race and nostalgia of being that Race. I purchased the Imperial Edition because of the Mount for release. It helped ton's when trying to move forward quickly in the beginning. I don't think Imperial Edition owner's would care to much about this Nord passive buff. I know i wouldn't care and i even main as an Imperial. However i do want to change to Nord and this passive buff would give me incentive to do so ( i bought into being an imperial for the mount, i was a stormcloak in skyrim which is why i'd like to switch).

Nobody's gonna go, wow Nord's have 3% more health then Imperials, guess i'm not getting the Imperial Edition.

Since the game is already released, the people who buy the Imperial Edition will play an Imperial because they like being Imperial. See where i'm going with this ?

Agree with that Imperial could be close to nords with passives but more health than nords but it like almost compares to nords with the rugged and imperial health passive is 3% more than imperial.

I personally think Nord's should have more health. It's only 3% more when compared to Imperial's 12% if Nord's were buffed.

Kinda of not sure what your trying to say though. Are you trying to say Imperial's should or should not have more health then Nord's?

You gotta remember Imperial's also get 10% max stamina and a 10% chance to regen health on hit. It's not like giving Nord's extra frost resist and maximum health is meta changing.

All this would do is make Nord's a very solid Tanking Race. Which i believe is needed in today's meta. Imperial's are still a solid tanking race even when compared to these Nord buff's. Health regen doesn't mean anything in PvE tanking. Also with the resent changes to blocking, Imperial's Red Diamond become's pretty beneficial for some self healing.

To me, these buff's fit perfectly.

(Also not sure if you know about this yet since your still Soul Shriven. You can type @GreenSoup2HoT so i get a notification for your message. Instead of quoting everything i said

)

sneakymitchell · January 2016

Yeah most of the time is a good bundle with it. But now most the time in crown store now a days is just novelty pets, clothing, and mounts (but the cheapest mount is a great starting mount when starting the game.). I just want nords to be regonized for builds instead of this other races is better than nords cause of damage. I don't want some damage on nords but more tougher than any race combined.

nordickittyhawk · January 2016

Nords are suppost be BERSERKER we need alittle stamina or stam rege,. not health regen. khajiits and orcs got there buffs.. where is ours?

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Nords are suppost be BERSERKER we need alittle stamina or stam rege,. not health regen. khajiits and orcs got there buffs.. where is ours?

Technically "Berserker's" are Warrior's who never quit. If you maxed out on maximum health and health regeneration.... you could easily wear out your opponent's resource's. With enough Health regeneration you can be a "Berserker". Not to many people run Health Regeneration build's at the moment because the meta is damage.

This is exactly the kind of buff Nord's need in my opinion. I'd much rather have one Race be built around Health. Imperial Orc and Red guard's have stamina. We need a race purely built off of health. Instead of making everyone the same, how about we buff Nord's the way i suggested to make them different. A unique and powerful play-style if you know what your doing.

There's 1 nightblade who use's a health regen build and he is like a "Bezerker" i follow on youtube. His name is BreakingGlass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=908SP9uROjk

This man play's an Orc but he build's for the Robust passive. He is using a Health Regen build.

If you were a Nord you could do the same but actually be more effective because you can proc the Orgnum's Scale's set (50% more hp regen while under 60% hp) a little easier since you have a lot more maximum health (only if Nord's were buffed to my suggestion's above). You could essentially stay between the benchmark for this set which is 0-60% health... since you have so much more health then a Orc.

You would become a "Berserker" and be very hard to kill if played right.

nordickittyhawk · January 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Nords are suppost be BERSERKER we need alittle stamina or stam rege,. not health regen. khajiits and orcs got there buffs.. where is ours?

Technically "Berserker's" are Warrior's who never quit. If you maxed out on maximum health and health regeneration.... you could easily wear out your opponent's resource's.

This is exactly the kind of buff Nord's need in my opinion. I'd much rather have one Race be build around Health. Imperial Orc and Red guard's have stamina. We need a race purely built off of health.

But lets behonest.... health recovery doesnt work at all in this game. on paper sounds great! never give up n keeping hitting em... but.. its like 300 health recovery -.-. ill take stam thanks.

nordickittyhawk · January 2016

OR. give same passive orcs got to nords

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

@nordickittyhawk

You have never seen a good player use a health recovery build... It's cool. I play console and have never seen a player use one either. It's just not something that people know about, it work's well.

Krotha (GreekManZeus on twitch) and BreakingGlass are the only two player's in the game i know who use HP regeneration build's.. and use them well. I've seen them both play and i know how good they are. I don't doubt their effectiveness at all.

I promise you, if Nord's got the buff i suggested.. you would see a lot more health regen build's out there.

There's a reason why there are so many Nightblade's and Sorcerer's. There is a couple streamer's you can point finger's at (Sypher, King Richard, etc). These guy's have lot's of follower's and are the reason we see these build's everywhere.

It's a shame really that people like BreakingGlass and Krotha don't get as much attention toward's their build's. They are really good and they create dynamic game-play because their build's are different compared to the boring damage meta build's we see today.

However i completely disagree with you. I would much rather see my suggestion's implemented then give Nord's any kind of stamina or orc passive. If you want a stamina passive or Orc passive, why don't you just make an Orc? This game need's diversity and it need's it fast. Not some generic fix to shove under the carpet.. when you could create something unique that could shine in it's own light for once.

sneakymitchell · January 2016

Yeah I run werewolf with almost 2k health recovery when I'm Using it with 20k stamina with 29k health When having battle spirit buff. I use drink with health and stamina recovery. down side is that magicka regen and my Dk needs most the abilities of the class skills in order to be effective for its build.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Argonians need it more

sneakymitchell · January 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Argonians need it more

Yeah I know but they are pretty good as nightblades, DKs alright with increase heal recieved, Sorc I never seen someone as them but would be interesting, Templars good for themselves for their own heals with spear jabs to heal. The potion is fine for them they get increased a good number. Swimming decent in the river of Cyrodiil. Slaughter fishes will eat me if I know which path is shorter.

Pandras · January 2016

I have a Nord DK tank apprentice, too. On the buff passives topic: I totally agree with @GreenSoup2HoT. Giving them decent and maybe unique (health based passives) would be cool. I would go in the defensive direction with 1) keeping their mitigation passive, 2) giving them the biggest max health increment 3) keeping robust and finally 4) modifying their frost resist because frost is not the most common damage type in this game so I would give them let's say 3 or 5% resist against schock and fire, too and double of this value against frost to keep its characteristics.

Lucky28 · January 2016

Would also be nice if they had: 'increase damage dealt with Frost' i think they actually need that, very fitting.

This game needs more Ice damage in general

SkylarkAU · January 2016

I like that Nord passives aren't tied to stam or magicka but I do think that as the most 'tank' oriented race, overall the passives are somewhat underwhelming..

The max health is good, but could be a little higher in my opinion - currently at 9% I think it should be at least equal highest alongside Imperial at 12%.

Cold resistance, well I see there is a lore aspect to it which I kinda like but any good tank will be covered to deal with whatever damage - a little bit of cold damage miti really doesn't make any difference (it's just icing on the cake, no pun intended).

The increase to health recovery is nice, I wouldn't want to see this changed as it opens up some interesting build options which is appropriate for the design intent (and good for the theory crafters out there).

Apart from perhaps bumping up the max health passive, overall I think the above are all pretty good.. The real shortfall in my opinion is the mitigation passive - let me explain why.

Let's say you have fully capped armor/resistance giving you 50% mitigation + 6% mitigation from the Nord passive (so 56%), this is what you would expect to see:

1000 incoming damage
56% mitigated (560 damage)
1000 - 560 = 440 damage received

Having done a lot of mitigation testing (with Nord passives, vampire damage reduction passives/abilities, and other stuff), this is how mitigation appears to actually work:

1000 incoming damage
50% mitigated (500 damage)

[second calculation]

500 damage
6% mitigated (30 damage)
1000 - (500 + 30) = 470 damage received

In a nutshell bonus mitigation provides diminishing returns as it is only applied to incoming damage after the damage from armor/resistances have been subtracted, ie. the more armor/resistance you have the less effective the Nord passive is. At 0% armor/resistance the Nord passive gives a full 6% mitigation, at 50% armor/resistance the Nord passive only gives 3% mitigation.

Based on this I would suggest either buffing the mitigation passive or changing it to something else, like block cost reduction or something similar.

Didgerion · January 2016

With the soft cap being removed the racial passives became very unbalanced and no one from ZOS cared to balance it properly.

karakondzula · January 2016

Health bonus to 12%, DR bonus to 12%. I always felt Nord racials lack bigger numbers comparing it to other races.

sneakymitchell · January 2016

SkylarkAU wrote: »

I like that Nord passives aren't tied to stam or magicka but I do think that as the most 'tank' oriented race, overall the passives are somewhat underwhelming..

The max health is good, but could be a little higher in my opinion - currently at 9% I think it should be at least equal highest alongside Imperial at 12%.

Cold resistance, well I see there is a lore aspect to it which I kinda like but any good tank will be covered to deal with whatever damage - a little bit of cold damage miti really doesn't make any difference (it's just icing on the cake, no pun intended).

The increase to health recovery is nice, I wouldn't want to see this changed as it opens up some interesting build options which is appropriate for the design intent (and good for the theory crafters out there).

Apart from perhaps bumping up the max health passive, overall I think the above are all pretty good.. The real shortfall in my opinion is the mitigation passive - let me explain why.

Let's say you have fully capped armor/resistance giving you 50% mitigation + 6% mitigation from the Nord passive (so 56%), this is what you would expect to see:

1000 incoming damage
56% mitigated (560 damage)
1000 - 560 = 440 damage received

Having done a lot of mitigation testing (with Nord passives, vampire damage reduction passives/abilities, and other stuff), this is how mitigation appears to actually work:

1000 incoming damage
50% mitigated (500 damage)
[second calculation]
500 damage
6% mitigated (30 damage)
1000 - (500 + 30) = 470 damage received

In a nutshell bonus mitigation provides diminishing returns as it is only applied to incoming damage after the damage from armor/resistances have been subtracted, ie. the more armor/resistance you have the less effective the Nord passive is. At 0% armor/resistance the Nord passive gives a full 6% mitigation, at 50% armor/resistance the Nord passive only gives 3% mitigation.

Based on this I would suggest either buffing the mitigation passive or changing it to something else, like block cost reduction or something similar.

WOW! I'm shocked guess I go infused with all my armor this is so stupid thank you for letting the community know of this. This is big this will give ZOS some attention with this right here. I believe this to be true the higher the number of damage on enemies that you take the larger it has. I can see that why.

Ashamray · January 2016

@SkylarkAU , thanks for your test!

It would be wonderful if Nords become a "true neutral" race.
In existing neutral bonuse embed something like:

Reduce stamina and magicka cost by 1/2%
Increase Weapon and Spell damage by 1/2/3%
Reduce Break Free cost by 2/4% (Nords are freedom-loving!)

One of these.

sneakymitchell · January 2016

avid_mdb16_ESO wrote: »

With the soft cap being removed the racial passives became very unbalanced and no one from ZOS cared to balance it properly.

If we keep this up with people replying how the race passives are so unbalanced. They might listen. It would not be hard to look up things on Youtube with Youtubers making builds or other forums of community. I want to address this cause it's been an issue for me for my nord and some other races that don't get much love. Why they buff the race's that are so good back then. This made it unbalanced if the good and the worst races have the same treat of candy. This is just wrong the way they did it. If they going to buff race passives again they need to help the one's that not get much attention in PvP or PvE. Like if they look on player's characters to see people have the worst races. ZOS will be like not much wrong here but most people play those race's cause they wanted to and roleplay. But now it's just oh pick this race or the other cause it has better stat's than this one. This needs to be address ASAP.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

sneakymitchell wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I personally think they should buff Nord's passive's. In the Nord Description they are strong like Orc's.

-Nord

Nord is the first human race that arrived in Tamriel. They do not have anything special except fair hair. They are more muscular than most other races. Only orcs are larger. They have strong bodies and they are good melee warriors. Many of them live in Skyrim - land of ice, mountains and snow. Nords respect strength and they are prideful people who like glory and honor.

So based on this information you can see why Nord's got their passive's.

-Robust: A trait Orc's have. Strong melee warrior's tend to have this.
-Two handed Expertise: They are good melee warrior's
-Resist Frost: Homeland is skyrim, land of ice. Seem's right.
-Rugged: Warranted because they are muscular.

Orc's being the larger race are technically stronger. So this is why they deal more melee damage. This is also why they are faster because they can carry the weight and still move with ease.

I personally think Resist Frost should receive a huge buff. 3% maximum health is nothing, if this passive granted 15% maximum health, well now it's okay to not receive a damage buff like orc's. I think Nord's should have the most maximum health in the game. They are very strongly built but also live in the harsh climate of skyrim. They must have very thick skin. Which is why the health bonus should be huge.

I wanted to throw this bit of information in as well. It only require's 10 point's in elemental expert to be 5% resistant to frost, fire and shock. This is almost double the passive of resist frost but your gaining resist to all 3 element's. Such a joke of a passive.

However any Race with 10% stamina recovery is 30 point's in Mooncalf. This just show's how pathetic Nord passive's really are.

To end this comment off.

Buff Resist Frost to 15% resist and maximum health. This would make Nord's way more competitive in my opinion.

If this buff actually happened. You could run a mean maximum health/regen build. I know i would.

Agree with that Imperial could be close to nords with passives but more health than nords but it like almost compares to nords with the rugged and imperial health passive is 3% more than imperial. Zenimax wanted that so people buy the imperial edition to make some money. I say that what you said more health and frost resist should be a great thing for their passive. Imperial edition should be a novelty character with good stats but most would buy that than become a nord with the passives a little stronger than nords.

In the end Buy Imperial Edition = more money for Zenimax. So that you could have a great tanking build with imperial who fought battles all the time. > nords who are ain't much tough as them who drinks alot.

Imperials are slightly more aggressive, less tough versions of Nords. The extra bonus to stamina helps them in mitigation (dodging/rolling/blocking) as well as stamina dps. Nords on the other hand have 6% damage reduction and 9% bonus to health, and their regen of 30% is always on vs. Imperial Red Diamond (which requires melee dps). I would say on the balance that part is pretty fair. If you have a problem with the way tanking or health is treated in this game, I can go along with you in agreeing.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

Pandras wrote: »

I have a Nord DK tank apprentice, too. On the buff passives topic: I totally agree with @GreenSoup2HoT. Giving them decent and maybe unique (health based passives) would be cool. I would go in the defensive direction with 1) keeping their mitigation passive, 2) giving them the biggest max health increment 3) keeping robust and finally 4) modifying their frost resist because frost is not the most common damage type in this game so I would give them let's say 3 or 5% resist against schock and fire, too and double of this value against frost to keep its characteristics.

If you look at morrowind, Nords were Immune (100% Frost resist) to Frost and resistant 50% to Shock. These #'s changed in later games. To be fair Orcs in Morrowind also had 25% magic resist and I believe both races had some kind of armor ability but I'm stretching my memory on this last part.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

If Nords need anything, Argonians need it way more.

nordsavage · January 2016

The nords health regen needs to be replaced or trimmed slightly and paired with another passive. Instead of plus 30% regen at tier 3 how about plus 15-20% and plus 6% physical damage. Especially with Cyrodiil cutting regen amounts.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Does Nords need passive buffs?

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