Massive Nerf of Content incomming?

Naslu · January 2016

Hello everybody,
i followed the hints and conclusions by official side for the plans of removal of veteran ranks in future.

Known facts are:
- Vet Ranks get removed being replaced by cp requirement for gear.
- current plan (to be changed/still in procress): max v16 gear needs 160 cp's in order to be equipable

Unknown/unclear:
- atm v1 player (with 160 cp`s due to his v16 twink char) can group up with his mates to do a dungeon scaled to v1 - loot will drop at v1 for everybody
- will it be like this in future: dungeons are always scaled to 160cp in order to provide loot that is equipable?
- or like this: combat leveling system of lfg-tool will apply in future for groups that are not formed by lfg-tool to boost them up to cp season cap?
- will former v1 (or v2-v15) equip converted to max cp cap requirement (like its now inside of combat leveled situations(lfg -groups, wrothgar, pvp area)for vet gear?)

Conclusion:
Either you can start now scaling dungeons down to v1 to grind the hell out of the dungeon to collect very fast the gear to have them all rdy the moment removal of vet-ranks is hitting in
or
massive nerf of content is incoming due to the fact that max scale of dungeons will be 160 cp in future.

Both scenarios are again a big facepalm for players who invested hours/days/weeks/months of grinding the prefered gear due to the rng loot system (but thats another story).

My personal hope at this point is that the existing gear will be reflected in stats by conversation/requirement of cp in future, i.e.g:
v1 spellpowercure -> cp requirement: 0 cp (5pc bonus: 50 extra spell and weapon damage to party members)
v16 spellpowercure -> cp requirement 160 cp (5pc bonus as its like now)

but then the question about the difficulty of dungeons in future comes up in my mind again.... you see: due to poor informations about that topic by zeni my fears are gettin bigger and bigger.

What do you think about the possible scenarious?

Xantaria · January 2016

in fact some interesting questions

Anzriel · January 2016

Naslu wrote: »

Hello everybody,
i followed the hints and conclusions by official side for the plans of removal of veteran ranks in future.

Known facts are:
- Vet Ranks get removed being replaced by cp requirement for gear.
- current plan (to be changed/still in procress): max v16 gear needs 160 cp's in order to be equipable

Unknown/unclear:
- atm v1 player (with 160 cp`s due to his v16 twink char) can group up with his mates to do a dungeon scaled to v1 - loot will drop at v1 for everybody
- will it be like this in future: dungeons are always scaled to 160cp in order to provide loot that is equipable?
- or like this: combat leveling system of lfg-tool will apply in future for groups that are not formed by lfg-tool to boost them up to cp season cap?
- will former v1 (or v2-v15) equip converted to max cp cap requirement (like its now inside of combat leveled situations(lfg -groups, wrothgar, pvp area)for vet gear?)

Conclusion:
Either you can start now scaling dungeons down to v1 to grind the hell out of the dungeon to collect very fast the gear to have them all rdy the moment removal of vet-ranks is hitting in
or
massive nerf of content is incoming due to the fact that max scale of dungeons will be 160 cp in future.

Both scenarios are again a big facepalm for players who invested hours/days/weeks/months of grinding the prefered gear due to the rng loot system (but thats another story).

My personal hope at this point is that the existing gear will be reflected in stats by conversation/requirement of cp in future, i.e.g:
v1 spellpowercure -> cp requirement: 0 cp (5pc bonus: 50 extra spell and weapon damage to party members)
v16 spellpowercure -> cp requirement 160 cp (5pc bonus as its like now)

but then the question about the difficulty of dungeons in future comes up in my mind again.... you see: due to poor informations about that topic by zeni my fears are gettin bigger and bigger.

What do you think about the possible scenarious?

Basically what I hear is the progression system will be the same, just 10 cp for all vet levels but essentially things will be the same. It's just about streamlining things and hear. You get the attributes every 10 cp same as vet ranks (up to 160) and gear will act the same. So nothing much is really changing other than there is no need to grind alts to v16. All the rest is mostly cosmetic is my understanding.

Naslu · January 2016

Anzriel wrote: »

Basically what I hear is the progression system will be the same, just 10 cp for all vet levels but essentially things will be the same. It's just about streamlining things and hear. You get the attributes every 10 cp same as vet ranks (up to 160) and gear will act the same. So nothing much is really changing other than there is no need to grind alts to v16. All the rest is mostly cosmetic is my understanding. [/quote]

my post was not directed to the future system of how you can progress to maximum (cp 160) -> that realy clear, my post is asking for the scenarious after cp 160 gear requirement and scaling of dungeons in future and of course the loot itself

Anzriel · January 2016

Naslu wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

Basically what I hear is the progression system will be the same, just 10 cp for all vet levels but essentially things will be the same. It's just about streamlining things and hear. You get the attributes every 10 cp same as vet ranks (up to 160) and gear will act the same. So nothing much is really changing other than there is no need to grind alts to v16. All the rest is mostly cosmetic is my understanding.

my post was not directed to the future system of how you can progress to maximum (cp 160) -> that realy clear, my post is asking for the scenarious after cp 160 gear requirement and scaling of dungeons in future and of course the loot itself[/quote]

Yeah, sorry apparently I did a poor job of explaining. What I mean to say is that as far as I understand it'll be done the same way it is now, just using CP instead VR. Scaling a person's attributes up as a cp 160 char. Loot I assume will be done the same way as well.

As in Vet rank 1 gear > 10 cp req same stats as v1 gear
vet rank 16 gear will be > 160 cp current v16 gear stats

A person can do a cp 10 (V1) dungeon with friends and it'll drop cp 10 req gear.

I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got in the brief explanation of it. I agree it'd be nice of ZOS would be a little more clear on their intent, but communication has always been poor for them, so I understand your fear.

EDIT: Apparently quotes are a bit borked. >.>

NBrookus · January 2016

You can use group finder now to scale up to max level; that seems unlikely to change when max level is based on CP instead of VR.

Eleusian · January 2016

One change that will likely be a side product is the current farming of keys using lower level Alts to set the dungeon. Currently a alt is v1. After switch automatically converts to cp at account level.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · January 2016

reason people wanted vet ranks removed is they didnt want to grind gear (insane v16 maths or play rng gods with bound dropped sets) every couple of months for minimal stat increase,
"ok ok, we hear ya" zenimax replied, and they replace one gear grind by another one.....

AzraelKrieg · January 2016

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

reason people wanted vet ranks removed is they didnt want to grind gear (insane v16 maths or play rng gods with bound dropped sets) every couple of months for minimal stat increase,
"ok ok, we hear ya" zenimax replied, and they replace one gear grind by another one.....

That wasn't the reason people wanted vet ranks removed.

Anzriel · January 2016

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

reason people wanted vet ranks removed is they didnt want to grind gear (insane v16 maths or play rng gods with bound dropped sets) every couple of months for minimal stat increase,
"ok ok, we hear ya" zenimax replied, and they replace one gear grind by another one.....

People wanted vet ranks removed because it added 16 more "levels" that needed to be grinded out on each character and made leveling stupid. People don't want to be forced to do Cadwell's silver and gold over and over.

Tower_Of_Shame · January 2016

Ahh I never forget those good days when you just loged on and Craglorn zone chat was like:
"LF 1 DD hircine grind, LF1 healer hircine" that was so fast and so good

or the anomaly grind

AzraelKrieg · January 2016

Tower_Of_Shame wrote: »

Ahh I never forget those good days when you just loged on and Craglorn zone chat was like:
"LF 1 DD hircine grind, LF1 healer hircine" that was so fast and so good or the anomaly grind

Or the Burial Ground grind, Tower Grind, Spell Scar grind. Upper Crag came and added the Scorpion grind, Welwa Grind, Atro Grind, 3 Boss grind. Good times.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Anzriel wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

reason people wanted vet ranks removed is they didnt want to grind gear (insane v16 maths or play rng gods with bound dropped sets) every couple of months for minimal stat increase,
"ok ok, we hear ya" zenimax replied, and they replace one gear grind by another one.....

People wanted vet ranks removed because it added 16 more "levels" that needed to be grinded out on each character and made leveling stupid. People don't want to be forced to do Cadwell's silver and gold over and over.

Technically your only forced to do silver, or none at all if you go craglorn or wrothgar or level in pvp.

paulsimonps · January 2016

Anzriel wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

reason people wanted vet ranks removed is they didnt want to grind gear (insane v16 maths or play rng gods with bound dropped sets) every couple of months for minimal stat increase,
"ok ok, we hear ya" zenimax replied, and they replace one gear grind by another one.....

People wanted vet ranks removed because it added 16 more "levels" that needed to be grinded out on each character and made leveling stupid. People don't want to be forced to do Cadwell's silver and gold over and over.

Which btw is a stupid argument. Cause if your complaint is "Oh I don't want to have to do the same content over and over" well then I got some bad news for you, you will be playing the same content over and over for months playing this game cause this is a theme-park tab-target MMO and you will grind our limited content till you cry of lack of variation.

The devs biggest mistake is to not give a good enough incentive to the players to do all the content. Just look at all those Dailies in Craglorn that no one ever does because they give F- all in rewards and even less so in exp. Same thing goes for the dailes in Cyrodiil. The Wrothgar Dailes were definitely a step in the right direction now they just need to back track a bit and update the old content which will never happen because that's not gonna sell them more DLC's.

Draxys · January 2016

Wow lol, they're just going deeper down the CP rabbit hole huh? I wish I could say that's it's shocking to me that they don't realize just how bad their product is with the CP system but I'm not surprised at all.

Julianos · January 2016

NERF THE NBS TO THE GROUND !

Islyn · January 2016

Tower_Of_Shame wrote: »

Ahh I never forget those good days when you just loged on and Craglorn zone chat was like:
"LF 1 DD hircine grind, LF1 healer hircine" that was so fast and so good or the anomaly grind

And actually the anomaly grind was fun too lol we used to get up to all sorts of weird stuff xD

Islyn · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

reason people wanted vet ranks removed is they didnt want to grind gear (insane v16 maths or play rng gods with bound dropped sets) every couple of months for minimal stat increase,
"ok ok, we hear ya" zenimax replied, and they replace one gear grind by another one.....

People wanted vet ranks removed because it added 16 more "levels" that needed to be grinded out on each character and made leveling stupid. People don't want to be forced to do Cadwell's silver and gold over and over.

Technically your only forced to do silver, or none at all if you go craglorn or wrothgar or level in pvp.

And what I don't get is the use of words like 'forced' in a form of recreation anyway. What reason is there to even be top level other than to be able to do the top level content and if you want to do that content then you need to know how to play your class and role/s and that tales time.

Grinding mobs is a cakewalk compared to end game content and proper pvp.

This is why so many v16s cannot complete even Elden Hollow vet pledge consistently and/or get rekt hard in pvp.

Naslu · January 2016

Islyn wrote: »

This is why so many v16s cannot complete even Elden Hollow vet pledge consistently and/or get rekt hard in pvp.

Too many "so called" DD's out there with 4k dps buildts, its a l2equip and l2play issue (there are no secrets how to reach more then 4k dps on a "dd" , just get interested in game and everything will get better) - but thats a complete other topic.

But it seems like discussion is going on - i`m just too afraid that combat leveling system will be everywhere at the end.

Will be interesting to see the zone chat with the new trail :
"lf 4 dd`s vtrail hm, cp level 361 minimum gear level at cap, equip check on inv"

GCVDJ11T · January 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Tower_Of_Shame wrote: »

Ahh I never forget those good days when you just loged on and Craglorn zone chat was like:
"LF 1 DD hircine grind, LF1 healer hircine" that was so fast and so good or the anomaly grind

Or the Burial Ground grind, Tower Grind, Spell Scar grind. Upper Crag came and added the Scorpion grind, Welwa Grind, Atro Grind, 3 Boss grind. Good times.

Ahhhhh.... the days of the shadow grind... and 4 mil xp per level .... hahahahaha.... good times

Alcast · January 2016

When that happens, ZOS will have to fix stuff for another year again and we will not have ANY NEW CONTENT during that time.
GG ZOSE, well played lul

Islyn · January 2016

Naslu wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

This is why so many v16s cannot complete even Elden Hollow vet pledge consistently and/or get rekt hard in pvp.

Too many "so called" DD's out there with 4k dps buildts, its a l2equip and l2play issue (there are no secrets how to reach more then 4k dps on a "dd" , just get interested in game and everything will get better) - but thats a complete other topic.

But it seems like discussion is going on - i`m just too afraid that combat leveling system will be everywhere at the end.

Will be interesting to see the zone chat with the new trail :
"lf 4 dd`s vtrail hm, cp level 361 minimum gear level at cap, equip check on inv"

I completely agree with this, but mainly the bold bits...

I think it might get weird....

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

When that happens, ZOS will have to fix stuff for another year again and we will not have ANY NEW CONTENT during that time.
GG ZOSE, well played lul

They don't fix things until the new content comes out though they HAVE fixes but they just bundle them with DLC patches... until DLC is released they just reduce effectiveness of player skills and sell new outfits.

Selique · January 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Wow lol, they're just going deeper down the CP rabbit hole huh? I wish I could say that's it's shocking to me that they don't realize just how bad their product is with the CP system but I'm not surprised at all.

First the masses cried "Remove Veteran Ranks! They suck! We hate grinding more levels after we hit max! We hate vertical progression!"

Now the masses cry "The CP system is stupid! We don't want to grind out CP for gear! We hate horizontal progression!"

Well, guess what? No one will be happy ever! You'll eat your vegetables and like it or no desert!

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2016

The only way I can imagine it would work is that once you grind each character to level 50, you suddenly become as powerful as the VR equivalent of however many CP you have. In that you have better stats from the equivalent of vr16 (or higher) gear. So you basically bypass cadwell's silver/gold grind. How this will pan out in battle leveled areas, I am not sure.

In other words, you only have to grind to level 50 on each toon, and then all your grinding beyond that is account-wide, so you only have to do it once. I think this pretty much satisfies the "remove vet levels" request.

There is also an assumption that you will get skill points for CP (maybe 1 per 10 CP) up to some maximum. Whether you get this at level 3 or have to wait to 50, idk. I hope you get them at level 3.

There may be more attribute points added, but I would imagine that they just get rolled into the CP. Right now, each CP adds a small amount to your max attribute. So I think they could just stop at 49 attribute points and let the rest come from CP, so that 160 CP works out to the same as the 16 more attribute points you currently get from vet levels.

As for sets, you can always craft sets at any level. I would imagine crafting tiers work the same as they do now up to Level 50, and then they start adding additional CP rank requirements. So a vr16-equivalent piece would require Level 50 and Champion Rank 160. Any gear below level 50 would have no CP requirement.

Dropped sets would scale in the same fashion. I don't think we'll see specific sets restricted by level, unless it's by way of dropped sets that only drop from high level content -- exactly how it works right now.

Kelces · January 2016

If people didn't realize it with the first release of new content, that the former best gear won't be that anymore, they never will. It works the same way in pretty much every game. Nobody forces anybody to do anything in this, it's always the player forcing him/herself.

This thread is just another way of saying "OMG, soon I won't be the greatest anymore!"

So let me give you some advise: Don't push yourself too hard.

XANTITHESISX · January 2016

Selique wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Wow lol, they're just going deeper down the CP rabbit hole huh? I wish I could say that's it's shocking to me that they don't realize just how bad their product is with the CP system but I'm not surprised at all.

First the masses cried "Remove Veteran Ranks! They suck! We hate grinding more levels after we hit max! We hate vertical progression!"

Now the masses cry "The CP system is stupid! We don't want to grind out CP for gear! We hate horizontal progression!"

Well, guess what? No one will be happy ever! You'll eat your vegetables and like it or no desert!

If you don't eat your meat, you cant have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?