which of these statements do you agree with?

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

- min-maxing is the only way to build the most effective character
- min-maxing is for players who lack imagination

MrDerrikk · January 2016

Neither; even if you min-max a character to the extreme yet don't know how to play them effectively, you'll not be good enough.

JoshenReborn · January 2016

Hmmmm, I see what you're trying to do here and I applaud the effort. However, this post should have actually been created as a poll. So before people come in here telling you to learn to forum or L2F I wanted to drop some helpful advice. Also, the correct answer is play how you want, efficiently!

UrQuan · January 2016

Neither.
-min-maxing is one way to build the most effective character for you, but only if it results in a character that matches well with your personal playstyle.
-min-maxing properly requires enough imagination to find the most effective combinations of effects.

Abeille · January 2016

How about:

- I don't judge people for the way they like to play. Just because they min-max it doesn't mean they don't have imagination, and just because they don't min-max it doesn't mean they can't be effective.

dday3six · January 2016

Seems like an apples and oranges comparsion to me, chief. Imaginative and fun are highly subjective, and very abstract Effective is much more clearly defined.

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

JoshenReborn wrote: »

Hmmmm, I see what you're trying to do here and I applaud the effort. However, this post should have actually been created as a poll. So before people come in here telling you to learn to forum or L2F I wanted to drop some helpful advice. Also, the correct answer is play how you want, efficiently!

no, I want considered opinions, not just yes or no. also I'm really bad a following arbitrary rules invented by random individuals

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

Abeille wrote: »

How about:

- I don't judge people for the way they like to play.

of course you do. you might be judging them silently but you absolutely are judging them.

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

The reason I'm asking is because I've seen some builds posted on the internet that have all or almost all stat points in one stat. I can't see how they could survive, or how gameplay would be very interesting if they could.

Abeille · January 2016

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

How about:

- I don't judge people for the way they like to play.

of course you do. you might be judging them silently but you absolutely are judging them.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, and maybe projecting your own personality on others.

You see, my characters are made after concepts. Some of these concepts are very "cliché", like the "Altmer Storm Mage" or the "Breton Vampire Magicka Nightblade", and make it possible to min-max (and when this happens, I surely do try to min-max). Other concepts could be considered "unconventional" at best, like my Argonian Stamina Sorcerer or my Imperial Magicka Templar, and when that's the case I try my best just to be effective and have fun. Because I use both play styles depending on the character I'm playing, I do not judge people for the way they like to play.

UrQuan · January 2016

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

The reason I'm asking is because I've seen some builds posted on the internet that have all or almost all stat points in one stat. I can't see how they could survive, or how gameplay would be very interesting if they could.

As long as you're using 2-stat food, for DPS or healing that's usually your best bet, and gives you enough survivability. Of course, it only gives you enough survivability if you're actually good at staying out of the red, interrupting, blocking, and dodging when needed, and just generally being in the right spot at the right time. That's part of what makes the gameplay interesting.

Having said that, you might be surprised at how much survivability you can get even with almost all stat points in one stat:

60 stat points in magicka, 31K in health.

UrQuan · January 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

How about:

- I don't judge people for the way they like to play.

of course you do. you might be judging them silently but you absolutely are judging them.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, and maybe projecting your own personality on others.

You see, my characters are made after concepts. Some of these concepts are very "cliché", like the "Altmer Storm Mage" or the "Breton Vampire Magicka Nightblade", and make it possible to min-max (and when this happens, I surely do try to min-max). Other concepts could be considered "unconventional" at best, like my Argonian Stamina Sorcerer or my Imperial Magicka Templar, and when that's the case I try my best just to be effective and have fun. Because I use both play styles depending on the character I'm playing, I do not judge people for the way they like to play.

Hey, that's what I do! Most of my concepts are as much about how the character looks as they are about what the character's build will be, but one way or the other I'm way more about the concept than anything else.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

- min-maxing is the only way to build the most effective character
- min-maxing is for players who lack imagination

Another flamebait thread.

Abeille · January 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

How about:

- I don't judge people for the way they like to play.

of course you do. you might be judging them silently but you absolutely are judging them.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, and maybe projecting your own personality on others.

You see, my characters are made after concepts. Some of these concepts are very "cliché", like the "Altmer Storm Mage" or the "Breton Vampire Magicka Nightblade", and make it possible to min-max (and when this happens, I surely do try to min-max). Other concepts could be considered "unconventional" at best, like my Argonian Stamina Sorcerer or my Imperial Magicka Templar, and when that's the case I try my best just to be effective and have fun. Because I use both play styles depending on the character I'm playing, I do not judge people for the way they like to play.

Hey, that's what I do! Most of my concepts are as much about how the character looks as they are about what the character's build will be, but one way or the other I'm way more about the concept than anything else.

How the character looks is very important to me, too! That's why my Altmer not having black hair keeps me in a permanent "slightly upset" mood. How they look, their decisions in the game and their build are all very important to me because I always create a new character with a concept in mind.

Preyfar · January 2016

It all depends on your playstyle. Min-maxing doesn't appear to my particular playstyle, but it's entirely valid for those who do.

MrDerrikk · January 2016

Personally I've only tried to min-max my DK, and only because the DPS he was pulling as a DD wasn't enough to run vWGT/vICP/vMA. It's something you need to do to a point, but as long as you're having fun whilst doing it then there's no real drive to go the full min-max.

dday3six · January 2016

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

The reason I'm asking is because I've seen some builds posted on the internet that have all or almost all stat points in one stat. I can't see how they could survive, or how gameplay would be very interesting if they could.

Those are likely highly optimized, group content builds. After having enough HP to avoid being one shot, having more doesn't help. A skill's tooltip healing and/or damage numbers are increased based on the character's max pool of the resource used for the skill. So most builds get more out of focusing on Stamina or Magicka after they met the threshold for HP.

Interesting is a matter of opinion.

PBpsy · January 2016

Here is a statement for you guys:

Non effective ,"non-standard","original","special snowflake" ,"fun build" users lack imagination and are a dime two dozens.

You know I have seen them all. Sorry but there is nothing special about: your DPS heavy armor DK that can't kill crap but dose not tank, your bow using Templar argonian stam healer , your stationary crystal blast spamming sorc or your nonsensical resto staff using melle stam NB. Those build are not special at all,they are what people come up when trying to be "original". .They are all so freaking original that everyone seems to come up exactly with the same dumb thing.

Originality is one of the obsession of our time and one of the main reasons why everything tends to look,taste and feel the sniping same.

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Another flamebait thread.

nobody is making you bite

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

is sound like min-maxing is the way to be the most effective. it's kind of disappointing but whatever. I think I'm cooling on this game anyway.

dday3six · January 2016

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

is sound like min-maxing is the way to be the most effective. it's kind of disappointing but whatever. I think I'm cooling on this game anyway.

Is it really so shocking that a build prospective aimed at being the most effective, is actually the most effective?

Shunravi · January 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

is sound like min-maxing is the way to be the most effective. it's kind of disappointing but whatever. I think I'm cooling on this game anyway.

Is it really so shocking that a build prospective aimed at being the most effective, is actually the most effective?

don't know how it wouldn't make sense...

UrQuan · January 2016

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

is sound like min-maxing is the way to be the most effective. it's kind of disappointing but whatever. I think I'm cooling on this game anyway.

If you consider putting most or all of your attribute points into one of 3 attributes to be min-maxing, then you really don't understand what that term means. That could be an element of min-maxing, but without also considering a lot of other factors, it's not min-maxing.

There are 3 basic ways you can take any build:

You can go with a magicka build.

You can go with a stamina build.

You can go with a hybrid build.

That decision alone does not constitute min-maxing. Hybrid builds are generally bad (except for some tank builds), but that doesn't mean that a magicka build is a min-maxed build, or that a stamina build is a min-maxed build. You can have a build that's got all attributes in magicka and it can still be non-min-maxed and completely ineffective. Or it can be non-min-maxed and still be effective. Or it can be min-maxed and completely ineffective (if it doesn't match with your play style). Or it can be min-maxed and be effective.

Stranglehands · January 2016

I was a nightblade healer before it was cool

Hand_Bacon · January 2016

So if I min-max I'm either lacking imagination or the game design forces me to do so?

Had a bad day at the RNG or did somebody poo in your cheerios?

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

I'm going to pretend you didn't say that. If my post offends you so much you have to talk like that maybe you should just pretend you didn't read it, and move along?

Tabbycat · January 2016

I think people should play to have fun however they choose to define fun. If that means min-maxing for them is fun, they should go for it. If that means creating unique builds for the fun of it, they should do that too.

Here is my edited version of your statement:

Min-maxing is fun for some players.

tinythinker · January 2016

"Cookie-cutter min-maxing is for players who lack imagination and knowledge of game mechanics."

What you min and what you max should suit your playstyle and objective. Plenty of players who stack tons of mag or stam and still force air into their mouths audibly by inhaling with their lips puckered.

ralonasan · January 2016

Don't you know? ESO is a safe space for playtime and builds, no buildshaming. Take your microagressions elsewhere.

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

If you consider putting most or all of your attribute points into one of 3 attributes to be min-maxing, then you really don't understand what that term means. That could be an element of min-maxing, but without also considering a lot of other factors, it's not min-maxing.

I know what min-maxing means. Like a sorcerer putting all points into magicka except for maybe a couple points in health and none in stamina. How can you play with a character so fragile you have to spend all your time defensively maneuvering? And forget about breaking out of CC. One hit and that's all. Glass cannon, indeed.

But you're right about me not considering other factors, mostly because I'm still new to the game and didn't think about it. Players are making up for imbalanced attributes with armor enchantments. But it all comes out the same, doesn't it? What difference does it make if your health stamina or magicka pools come from attributes or enchantments?

So posting character attributes doesn't tell us much about the character unless gear enchantments are posted too.

Daran_Cousland · January 2016

ralonasan wrote: »

Don't you know? ESO is a safe space for playtime and builds, no buildshaming. Take your microagressions elsewhere.

You're seeing aggression where there isn't any. Stand down, son.