Gidorick wrote: »

BabeestorGor wrote: »

I'd certainly support separate bank accounts for each character,no cross-faction trading between characters on the same account, and CP being individual to the character.

OMG SO MUCH THIS!!! I think cross character bank should have been an unlock... maybe at level 20.

I'd be delighted with all that.

BabeestorGor wrote: »

I'd certainly support separate bank accounts for each character,no cross-faction trading between characters on the same account, and CP being individual to the character.

I play characters not accounts and I'd rather achievements were earned by characters. Funny how the self-declared hardcore collector wants easy mode.

If you think I want easy mode then you are here without reading the main body. Go ahead and do that first and read the replies to others I have about players like you wanting to cherry pick what is account wide and what is not. Particularly #58 and #60. You play based out of an account and you know you will not chase the non-bulk achievements on all of your alts and if you say you do pictures or video or it did not happen.

Gidorick wrote: »

Ok @Merry You've convinced me... I think this would be good. I would support this sort of account & character achievement record.

LOL good, now we just have to convince ZOS!!!! It really could be done, and done well, if they took the time to do it. Here's hoping!!!

M

I already agreed that it should be done @Volkodav !

As long as you get to see your individual character's progression on the achievement as well. No harm in an "account summary" type system. I think this is one of those rare cases where everyone can get what they want.

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I already agreed that it should be done @Volkodav !

As long as you get to see your individual character's progression on the achievement as well. No harm in an "account summary" type system. I think this is one of those rare cases where everyone can get what they want.

Ahh,..my turn to say I got it. XD
I was just thinking that it would be sad if I couldnt do those achievements with a new character.I guess account wide achievements would please a lot of people.Those who hate doing anything more than once.Whereas myself,I tend to forget a lot of where those achievements are,since there are so many,or what I had to do to get them. Kinda like doing quests with each character.If we only had to do them once,that they were account wide,it wouldnt be much fun for me.I look at achievements as small side quests.

That somewhat defeats the purpose of what I propose. I meant for an account wide system free of character independent achievements. The nod for initial completion is all that is needed. Beyond that nothing is stopping you from completing the task again. Otherwise its just gaps upon gaps in history. Maybe coming from Xbox to PC I have a view those not familiar with consoles do not and again character based accolades are more of an exception to the rule.

DDemon wrote: »

I personally don't really care too much about achievements, but I see no reason why not to do this.

Some people seem to think this would take away the initiative to make alt characters, which kind of doesn't make sense. It actually promotes making more characters, as their progress is shared.

It benefits those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to have endgame alts with the minimum time necessary to advance them to that stage, but it disadvantages those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to take their time leveling alts through the game because they enjoy the journey and all it has to offer. Sure they can still do those achievements, but it removes any sense of satisfaction from doing so when they're already credited with them from another character's collection.

It also disadvantages those who take the role-play aspect of MMORPGs seriously. Someone who wants a warrior-type character to avoid all Mages Guild content will find that character has all the Mages Guild achievements anyway, because his mage-type character got them - and that character is similarly going to receive all the Fighters Guild achievements the warrior-type character got even tho' he has had no involvement with the Fighters Guild.

Tandor wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

I personally don't really care too much about achievements, but I see no reason why not to do this.

Some people seem to think this would take away the initiative to make alt characters, which kind of doesn't make sense. It actually promotes making more characters, as their progress is shared.

It benefits those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to have endgame alts with the minimum time necessary to advance them to that stage, but it disadvantages those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to take their time leveling alts through the game because they enjoy the journey and all it has to offer. Sure they can still do those achievements, but it removes any sense of satisfaction from doing so when they're already credited with them from another character's collection.

It also disadvantages those who take the role-play aspect of MMORPGs seriously. Someone who wants a warrior-type character to avoid all Mages Guild content will find that character has all the Mages Guild achievements anyway, because his mage-type character got them - and that character is similarly going to receive all the Fighters Guild achievements the warrior-type character got even tho' he has had no involvement with the Fighters Guild.

The same could be said that having alts with gaps in their history is less satisfying than one complete history. Very, very few if any will go beyond getting the bulk achievements repeatedly. Nobody is going to scamp farm or master angler for weeks then buy or earn all the motif chapters for across all alts. As far as the campaign bronze, silvers and gold goes most will stop doing them after their second or third time through. So unless you intend to complete all achievements across all alts then account wide is the only way to go here.

Tandor wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

I personally don't really care too much about achievements, but I see no reason why not to do this.

Some people seem to think this would take away the initiative to make alt characters, which kind of doesn't make sense. It actually promotes making more characters, as their progress is shared.

It benefits those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to have endgame alts with the minimum time necessary to advance them to that stage, but it disadvantages those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to take their time leveling alts through the game because they enjoy the journey and all it has to offer. Sure they can still do those achievements, but it removes any sense of satisfaction from doing so when they're already credited with them from another character's collection.

It also disadvantages those who take the role-play aspect of MMORPGs seriously. Someone who wants a warrior-type character to avoid all Mages Guild content will find that character has all the Mages Guild achievements anyway, because his mage-type character got them - and that character is similarly going to receive all the Fighters Guild achievements the warrior-type character got even tho' he has had no involvement with the Fighters Guild.

Again the casual bulk achievements like collecting chests are not the issue. The ones that take excessive amounts of time or have role and class imbalances are in addition to those who have scruples about their characters morals and ideals. Did you even read what was written up top. Not every one lives on one game and not everyone has the time. Even those who do could not possibly make it through alts and alts of repetition like that. If anything repeated pops of the same achievement devalues the original. Then again maybe you have not earned any that are worthwhile.

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

I personally don't really care too much about achievements, but I see no reason why not to do this.

Some people seem to think this would take away the initiative to make alt characters, which kind of doesn't make sense. It actually promotes making more characters, as their progress is shared.

It benefits those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to have endgame alts with the minimum time necessary to advance them to that stage, but it disadvantages those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to take their time leveling alts through the game because they enjoy the journey and all it has to offer. Sure they can still do those achievements, but it removes any sense of satisfaction from doing so when they're already credited with them from another character's collection.

It also disadvantages those who take the role-play aspect of MMORPGs seriously. Someone who wants a warrior-type character to avoid all Mages Guild content will find that character has all the Mages Guild achievements anyway, because his mage-type character got them - and that character is similarly going to receive all the Fighters Guild achievements the warrior-type character got even tho' he has had no involvement with the Fighters Guild.

The same could be said that having alts with gaps in their history is less satisfying than one complete history. Very, very few if any will go beyond getting the bulk achievements repeatedly. Nobody is going to scamp farm or master angler for weeks then buy or earn all the motif chapters for across all alts. As far as the campaign bronze, silvers and gold goes most will stop doing them after their second or third time through. So unless you intend to complete all achievements across all alts then account wide is the only way to go here.

Under the existing system you can get all the achievements on one character and then be more relaxed about getting them all on your other characters. You will still get the satisfaction of completing those you do get on them, and it adds to both the purpose and fun of leveling up them up. Under your proposal, once you've got all of the achievements once, whether on one character or more easily on more than one, that's it. There's no benefit to doing them on your other characters and the enjoyment of leveling them is reduced accordingly.

I don't for a moment expect to get all the achievements on all my characters, but I do want the opportunity to do achievements on all of them, and in a meaningful way. It's a significant part of leveling them through the game, and I don't want it trivialised by having it all shared between them. By and large I don't have a main character in MMOs, I have a number of characters who are all equally important and enjoyable to me. It's how I enjoy playing the game, and as you indicated in #59 in relation to another aspect of playing the game - " I do not care for role play but if that is how someone wants to spend their game time I leave it be as I understand it is how they enjoy the game." There's a good case to be made for leaving achievements be, as that is how a lot of us enjoy the game. Hold a different view by all means, but you might at least respect our view as you do that of role-players, rather than insulting us.

Merry wrote: »

To the completionists:

In the other game I wont mention again the account wide achieves CAN be earned by an individual char.
For example, if your account has killed 1000 orcs, then a char does it alone, that char will get the achieve pop up and get credit for having done it. When you look at any single achieve it shows which chars have gotten it and how progressed the char you are on is on it (400/1000 orc kills).
The only downfall of the system is the achieves that award pets/mounts that you already have (because they are also account bound). You still get the reward, but end up having to destroy it because you already have it (some are sellable).
Its a comprehensive, polished system and a great model to use for one here. But again, it will never happen.

M

It won't happen because game developers are still building MMOs with ideas that made great MMOs in 1999.

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

I personally don't really care too much about achievements, but I see no reason why not to do this.

Some people seem to think this would take away the initiative to make alt characters, which kind of doesn't make sense. It actually promotes making more characters, as their progress is shared.

It benefits those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to have endgame alts with the minimum time necessary to advance them to that stage, but it disadvantages those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to take their time leveling alts through the game because they enjoy the journey and all it has to offer. Sure they can still do those achievements, but it removes any sense of satisfaction from doing so when they're already credited with them from another character's collection.

It also disadvantages those who take the role-play aspect of MMORPGs seriously. Someone who wants a warrior-type character to avoid all Mages Guild content will find that character has all the Mages Guild achievements anyway, because his mage-type character got them - and that character is similarly going to receive all the Fighters Guild achievements the warrior-type character got even tho' he has had no involvement with the Fighters Guild.

The same could be said that having alts with gaps in their history is less satisfying than one complete history. Very, very few if any will go beyond getting the bulk achievements repeatedly. Nobody is going to scamp farm or master angler for weeks then buy or earn all the motif chapters for across all alts. As far as the campaign bronze, silvers and gold goes most will stop doing them after their second or third time through. So unless you intend to complete all achievements across all alts then account wide is the only way to go here.

Under the existing system you can get all the achievements on one character and then be more relaxed about getting them all on your other characters. You will still get the satisfaction of completing those you do get on them, and it adds to both the purpose and fun of leveling up them up. Under your proposal, once you've got all of the achievements once, whether on one character or more easily on more than one, that's it. There's no benefit to doing them on your other characters and the enjoyment of leveling them is reduced accordingly.

I don't for a moment expect to get all the achievements on all my characters, but I do want the opportunity to do achievements on all of them, and in a meaningful way. It's a significant part of leveling them through the game, and I don't want it trivialised by having it all shared between them. By and large I don't have a main character in MMOs, I have a number of characters who are all equally important and enjoyable to me. It's how I enjoy playing the game, and as you indicated in #59 in relation to another aspect of playing the game - " I do not care for role play but if that is how someone wants to spend their game time I leave it be as I understand it is how they enjoy the game." There's a good case to be made for leaving achievements be, as that is how a lot of us enjoy the game. Hold a different view by all means, but you might at least respect our view as you do that of role-players, rather than insulting us.

If you think I was insulting maybe you are just thin skinned. Again all of you who are against account wide achivements are the minority. To re-quote what I told another poster "Do you realize that character based achievements in games and among platforms is miniscule. By default account wide achievements are considered proper, common and are expected. By default you are the extreme minority. How dare I ask for what is expected from a game." Feel free to read the entire interaction between that poster and myself for the full context. As for "trivialized" repetition and over abundance is what makes something trivial.

The other poster you said that too was actually me, and it makes as little sense now as it did then.

I'm not remotely thin-skinned, the point about you insulting people was based on the fact that quite apart from calling people names you're basically attacking in a pretty patronising way anyone who has the temerity to disagree with your original post, to the point of telling them "this thread is not for you". You constantly make unsubstantiated assumptions as to the popularity of your opinion. Fortunately, there's no suggestion that ZOS agree with you. Hopefully achievements will remain character-specific as at present with no further dumbing down of the game. I suggest we agree to disagree on that.

Take the time to play more than one game and what I say will make some sense. It was pretty self explanatory. You are either simple or flaming at this point especially if you said you were done here. Go ahead and tell me what is unsubstantiated and I will prove anything I mentioned. I do not just talk out of my ass and yeah, if you are casual or not interested in achievements then your opinion really should not matter or should matter less. Tell me what communities you are a part or for collecting and other experiences you have that makes your point anymore valid than mine. This is my thread and I will defend my view post for post as I see fit. You just want to drop the last word and "constantly make assumptions as the popularity of your opinion". I suggest you quit being petty. What you call dumbed down I call streamlined. I can see you sitting in your darkened basement paying Morrowind growling about how Skyrim was "dumbed down" ha ha, you are that guy huh?. Sorry you got your feelings hurt but you will not sway me off course.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I agree achievement should be account bound; however, alliance rank should just be alliance bound on your account.

I could live with alliance bound alliance rank. Though I feel once you earned it you earned it. Skills are fine per character.

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

I personally don't really care too much about achievements, but I see no reason why not to do this.

Some people seem to think this would take away the initiative to make alt characters, which kind of doesn't make sense. It actually promotes making more characters, as their progress is shared.

It benefits those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to have endgame alts with the minimum time necessary to advance them to that stage, but it disadvantages those whose sole purpose in creating more characters is to take their time leveling alts through the game because they enjoy the journey and all it has to offer. Sure they can still do those achievements, but it removes any sense of satisfaction from doing so when they're already credited with them from another character's collection.

It also disadvantages those who take the role-play aspect of MMORPGs seriously. Someone who wants a warrior-type character to avoid all Mages Guild content will find that character has all the Mages Guild achievements anyway, because his mage-type character got them - and that character is similarly going to receive all the Fighters Guild achievements the warrior-type character got even tho' he has had no involvement with the Fighters Guild.

The same could be said that having alts with gaps in their history is less satisfying than one complete history. Very, very few if any will go beyond getting the bulk achievements repeatedly. Nobody is going to scamp farm or master angler for weeks then buy or earn all the motif chapters for across all alts. As far as the campaign bronze, silvers and gold goes most will stop doing them after their second or third time through. So unless you intend to complete all achievements across all alts then account wide is the only way to go here.

Under the existing system you can get all the achievements on one character and then be more relaxed about getting them all on your other characters. You will still get the satisfaction of completing those you do get on them, and it adds to both the purpose and fun of leveling up them up. Under your proposal, once you've got all of the achievements once, whether on one character or more easily on more than one, that's it. There's no benefit to doing them on your other characters and the enjoyment of leveling them is reduced accordingly.

I don't for a moment expect to get all the achievements on all my characters, but I do want the opportunity to do achievements on all of them, and in a meaningful way. It's a significant part of leveling them through the game, and I don't want it trivialised by having it all shared between them. By and large I don't have a main character in MMOs, I have a number of characters who are all equally important and enjoyable to me. It's how I enjoy playing the game, and as you indicated in #59 in relation to another aspect of playing the game - " I do not care for role play but if that is how someone wants to spend their game time I leave it be as I understand it is how they enjoy the game." There's a good case to be made for leaving achievements be, as that is how a lot of us enjoy the game. Hold a different view by all means, but you might at least respect our view as you do that of role-players, rather than insulting us.

If you think I was insulting maybe you are just thin skinned. Again all of you who are against account wide achivements are the minority. To re-quote what I told another poster "Do you realize that character based achievements in games and among platforms is miniscule. By default account wide achievements are considered proper, common and are expected. By default you are the extreme minority. How dare I ask for what is expected from a game." Feel free to read the entire interaction between that poster and myself for the full context. As for "trivialized" repetition and over abundance is what makes something trivial.

The other poster you said that too was actually me, and it makes as little sense now as it did then.

I'm not remotely thin-skinned, the point about you insulting people was based on the fact that quite apart from calling people names you're basically attacking in a pretty patronising way anyone who has the temerity to disagree with your original post, to the point of telling them "this thread is not for you". You constantly make unsubstantiated assumptions as to the popularity of your opinion. Fortunately, there's no suggestion that ZOS agree with you. Hopefully achievements will remain character-specific as at present with no further dumbing down of the game. I suggest we agree to disagree on that.

Take the time to play more than one game and what I say will make some sense. It was pretty self explanatory. You are either simple or flaming at this point especially if you said you were done here. Go ahead and tell me what is unsubstantiated and I will prove anything I mentioned. I do not just talk out of my ass and yeah, if you are casual or not interested in achievements then your opinion really should not matter or should matter less. Tell me what communities you are a part or for collecting and other experiences you have that makes your point anymore valid than mine. This is my thread and I will defend my view post for post as I see fit. You just want to drop the last word and "constantly make assumptions as the popularity of your opinion". I suggest you quit being petty. What you call dumbed down I call streamlined. I can see you sitting in your darkened basement paying Morrowind growling about how Skyrim was "dumbed down" ha ha, you are that guy huh?. Sorry you got your feelings hurt but you will not sway me off course.

Volkadav has dealt with the point about substantiation.

I have never claimed my point is more valid than yours, I have merely rejected your notion that your opinion is more valid than mine. Take your comment about this topic ("this is my thread"), it is not yours, you initiated it but you don't own it and you don't control it or have the ultimate say over those who contribute to it. This is a discussion board where people express their different opinions with equal entitlement and validity.

I am not the basement dwelling Morrowind player you describe, although I have played that game along with the other TES games and many other computer games since 1983, having also written about games, tested games both publicly and privately for developers, and had my own game published so I've been around gaming a while and have been a "collector" in many games during that time. Come to think of it, I did live briefly in a basement early on in my career some 40 years ago but we didn't have computers then !

The simple point is that in relation to all who contribute to this topic, each opinion is as valid as the next one. Some want a change because it will further their enjoyment of the game, others oppose such a change because it will spoil their enjoyment of the game. Both are equally valid views given the different approaches adopted to the game.