AoE caps are currently crutches for baddies.

Jura23 · January 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

So-called skill and good gameplay are highly subjective things. To a different kind of ignorant gamer, we're all skill-less noobs because their game requires different kinds of proficiencies.

So please, let's leave elitism out of the discussion of AE caps. There is no absolutely right or wrong answer. Supporting AE caps does not make one a lesser being. It's all personal preference and opinion.

I like the AE cap design because it better approximates reality than no caps at all. As each target is hit, there should be less damage transmitted to the next. I don't think a single AE ability should damage an unlimited number of targets within its radius equally.

I do not think it is good game design to allow 6 players to have the ability kill 24+ in a single ulti-bomb, nor do I think such an event would take much skill or be very enjoyable. I believe the removal of AE caps combined with an experienced playerbase (compared to 2014) would result in very bad gameplay that I would describe as cheesy.

I say this as a mostly solo/duo player who frequently zerg dives and would directly benefit from the removal of the cap.

I see the problem differently. The main issue is gameplay design. Mainly in terms of objective layout, player resource pools/regeneration and scoring design. There are too few objectives. The main objectives in the game -- keeps and resources -- are all placed in clusters of 4 in close proximity. The game design encourages various kinds of last stands; including those which may involve all three factions in epic battles the server cannot support. Resource pools and regen allow for players to execute abilities at a rate the server cannot handle during large battles.

A HUGE issue is the implementation of group buffs. A single group ability that can affect 24+ players at a fixed cost is way too efficient. It is too easy for groups to keep purges/rapids/barriers/etc up on groups of 24+. This system needs a redesign. I think it would be fair for the cost of such buffs to scale with the size of the group. The buffs should only affect a limited number of non-group players; to maintain the practice of goodwill buffs to ungrouped players.

I think you should 100% be able to kill 24+ people with 6 if they're all stacked up for you to do it in a single ult bomb.

This is what happens in proper pvp games where you try to you know..avoid getting AOEd down

rewarding 24 morons and yes..they're morons if they're stacked up with a no aoe cap game...because they're running 24 people is downright silly....

I think they should instead try to create an environment where there will be no reason for 6 to even go fight 24. That's the world we should be aiming for, not taking shortcuts like this.

Derra · January 2016

Jura23 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

So-called skill and good gameplay are highly subjective things. To a different kind of ignorant gamer, we're all skill-less noobs because their game requires different kinds of proficiencies.

So please, let's leave elitism out of the discussion of AE caps. There is no absolutely right or wrong answer. Supporting AE caps does not make one a lesser being. It's all personal preference and opinion.

I like the AE cap design because it better approximates reality than no caps at all. As each target is hit, there should be less damage transmitted to the next. I don't think a single AE ability should damage an unlimited number of targets within its radius equally.

I do not think it is good game design to allow 6 players to have the ability kill 24+ in a single ulti-bomb, nor do I think such an event would take much skill or be very enjoyable. I believe the removal of AE caps combined with an experienced playerbase (compared to 2014) would result in very bad gameplay that I would describe as cheesy.

I say this as a mostly solo/duo player who frequently zerg dives and would directly benefit from the removal of the cap.

I see the problem differently. The main issue is gameplay design. Mainly in terms of objective layout, player resource pools/regeneration and scoring design. There are too few objectives. The main objectives in the game -- keeps and resources -- are all placed in clusters of 4 in close proximity. The game design encourages various kinds of last stands; including those which may involve all three factions in epic battles the server cannot support. Resource pools and regen allow for players to execute abilities at a rate the server cannot handle during large battles.

A HUGE issue is the implementation of group buffs. A single group ability that can affect 24+ players at a fixed cost is way too efficient. It is too easy for groups to keep purges/rapids/barriers/etc up on groups of 24+. This system needs a redesign. I think it would be fair for the cost of such buffs to scale with the size of the group. The buffs should only affect a limited number of non-group players; to maintain the practice of goodwill buffs to ungrouped players.

I think you should 100% be able to kill 24+ people with 6 if they're all stacked up for you to do it in a single ult bomb.

This is what happens in proper pvp games where you try to you know..avoid getting AOEd down

rewarding 24 morons and yes..they're morons if they're stacked up with a no aoe cap game...because they're running 24 people is downright silly....

I think they should instead try to create an environment where there will be no reason for 6 to even go fight 24. That's the world we should be aiming for, not taking shortcuts like this.

You´re not looking for open world pvp.

That´s what´s fun about open world. Outnumbered fights. Third faction adds.

Funny enough i have to say - eso (as an open world pvp game) is not what you may be looking for because the environment you don´t want and describe as a "shortcut" is the very core of what makes an open pvp zone fun (for most people who have been playing that type of pvp for the past 15 years).
The only thing eso fails to deliver at is creating fights that are not biased towards certain playstyles - and performance.

Nafirian · January 2016

Imma just leave these here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

CatchMeTrolling · January 2016

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

duuude9192b14_ESO · January 2016

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Ishammael · January 2016

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Unfortunately they are not.

Aside from general player ignorance about numbers and damage (because no addons), it seems from videos that console had at one point some form of dynamic ultimate.

Ishammael · January 2016

Nafirian wrote: »

Imma just leave these here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

Tears for the good days.

Some aspects of the 1.5 meta need to be reconsidered to alleviate the problems of the 2.1 meta.

JaJaLuka · January 2016

Soon TM (translation = never).
Too many crutches for bad players right now whether bugs or not. AOE caps, shield stacking (which I don't think will change, but it would make so many other crutches unnecessary and gives the opportunity to get rid of them), Proxy det (2nd dumbest idea for PvP only followed by...), mini stun from gap closers and the next idea of a root which imo is equally as bad.

Joy_Division · January 2016

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

I take it this means you don't have a video.

Been there, done that. If you want to have that "well I haven't done it so no one else can do it" outlook so be it lol Zerg bombing is pretty common, like I said its people with builds built just for that purpose.

If you read Wrobel's "discussion" post on AoE caps, you will quickly see that I am hardly the only person who has difficulty imagining how your 3 wiped 40. If 3 could wipe 40 by simply creating a specific build and executing some abilities correctly, there would be zero complaints about AoE caps.

Poxheart · January 2016

Nafirian wrote: »

Imma just leave these here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

This game was so much better back then. It's sad how bad it's become.

FireCowCommando · January 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Unfortunately they are not.

Aside from general player ignorance about numbers and damage (because no addons), it seems from videos that console had at one point some form of dynamic ultimate.

nope, never have had dynamic ult gain.

KenaPKK · January 2016

Added an edit to the original post. Carry on, friends.

Stikato · January 2016

Hmmm. Ok..

1. AoE caps affect both "good" and "bad" players. Skill is irrelevant.
2. Proximity Detonation is one of the most laughably, horribly, ill-conceived, poorly designed skills ever created. It creates the exact situation it was supposed to ameliorate.
3. Purge is extremely powerful and spammable. It's over the top.
4. Barrier / smart healing could possibly be OP--combining them with 50% damage reduction for 18/24 players is most definitely OP.
5. Siege can be one answer, it should not be the ONLY answer.

I would try something like, removing AOE caps, and doubling the cost of purge. And go from there.

ZOS, on the other hand, will throw every balancing idea they have into the next major update. And then refuse to fine-tune anything, instead insisting it will be taken care of in the next major patch, three months later. It is this approach to balancing that is killing the PVP game IMO, when people just know there is no hope of glaring issues being fixed anytime soon.

This last point frankly deserves its own thread. We need active, incremental balancing passes in PVP. This would have avoided the problems of almost all of the last patches. I would start it, but I don't have the time to do it the justice it deserves.

Ishammael · January 2016

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Unfortunately they are not.

Aside from general player ignorance about numbers and damage (because no addons), it seems from videos that console had at one point some form of dynamic ultimate.

nope, never have had dynamic ult gain.

Regardless, it generated waaaaay faster

Erondil · January 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Unfortunately they are not.

Aside from general player ignorance about numbers and damage (because no addons), it seems from videos that console had at one point some form of dynamic ultimate.

nope, never have had dynamic ult gain.

Regardless, it generated waaaaay faster

I guess you watched videos of transferred chars with combat frenzy 2 farming lvl10 during the first months of the console game

KenaPKK · January 2016

Erondil wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Unfortunately they are not.

Aside from general player ignorance about numbers and damage (because no addons), it seems from videos that console had at one point some form of dynamic ultimate.

nope, never have had dynamic ult gain.

Regardless, it generated waaaaay faster

I guess you watched videos of transferred chars with combat frenzy 2 farming lvl10 during the first months of the console game

I loled.

Xsorus · January 2016

Jura23 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

So-called skill and good gameplay are highly subjective things. To a different kind of ignorant gamer, we're all skill-less noobs because their game requires different kinds of proficiencies.

So please, let's leave elitism out of the discussion of AE caps. There is no absolutely right or wrong answer. Supporting AE caps does not make one a lesser being. It's all personal preference and opinion.

I like the AE cap design because it better approximates reality than no caps at all. As each target is hit, there should be less damage transmitted to the next. I don't think a single AE ability should damage an unlimited number of targets within its radius equally.

I do not think it is good game design to allow 6 players to have the ability kill 24+ in a single ulti-bomb, nor do I think such an event would take much skill or be very enjoyable. I believe the removal of AE caps combined with an experienced playerbase (compared to 2014) would result in very bad gameplay that I would describe as cheesy.

I say this as a mostly solo/duo player who frequently zerg dives and would directly benefit from the removal of the cap.

I see the problem differently. The main issue is gameplay design. Mainly in terms of objective layout, player resource pools/regeneration and scoring design. There are too few objectives. The main objectives in the game -- keeps and resources -- are all placed in clusters of 4 in close proximity. The game design encourages various kinds of last stands; including those which may involve all three factions in epic battles the server cannot support. Resource pools and regen allow for players to execute abilities at a rate the server cannot handle during large battles.

A HUGE issue is the implementation of group buffs. A single group ability that can affect 24+ players at a fixed cost is way too efficient. It is too easy for groups to keep purges/rapids/barriers/etc up on groups of 24+. This system needs a redesign. I think it would be fair for the cost of such buffs to scale with the size of the group. The buffs should only affect a limited number of non-group players; to maintain the practice of goodwill buffs to ungrouped players.

I think you should 100% be able to kill 24+ people with 6 if they're all stacked up for you to do it in a single ult bomb.

This is what happens in proper pvp games where you try to you know..avoid getting AOEd down

rewarding 24 morons and yes..they're morons if they're stacked up with a no aoe cap game...because they're running 24 people is downright silly....

I think they should instead try to create an environment where there will be no reason for 6 to even go fight 24. That's the world we should be aiming for, not taking shortcuts like this.

So an environment of numbers win.

sounds not very fun.

KenaPKK · January 2016

I have a feeling this game will always be balanced around numbers having some sort of advantage.

Balancing toward skill having the advantage discourages casuals = less $ for ZoS.

Huckdabuck · January 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

I have a feeling this game will always be balanced around numbers having some sort of advantage.

Balancing toward skill having the advantage discourages casuals = less $ for ZoS.

It only took countless threads and multiple posts here to come to this simple yet honest truth.

KenaPKK · January 2016

Huckdabuck wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

I have a feeling this game will always be balanced around numbers having some sort of advantage.

Balancing toward skill having the advantage discourages casuals = less $ for ZoS.

It only took countless threads and multiple posts here to come to this simple yet honest truth.

?

I've always known this.

I make posts because I have a problem with this. Not because I'm trying to figure anything out.

Huckdabuck · January 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

I have a feeling this game will always be balanced around numbers having some sort of advantage.

Balancing toward skill having the advantage discourages casuals = less $ for ZoS.

It only took countless threads and multiple posts here to come to this simple yet honest truth.

?

I've always known this.

I make posts because I have a problem with this. Not because I'm trying to figure anything out.

You were quoted because you said what everyone else who plays this game should know by now and if by chance there are folks out there who haven't figure it out yet....please read the quote again.

"Balancing toward skill having the advantage discourages casuals = less $ for ZoS."

Teargrants · January 2016

Erondil wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

Unfortunately they are not.

Aside from general player ignorance about numbers and damage (because no addons), it seems from videos that console had at one point some form of dynamic ultimate.

nope, never have had dynamic ult gain.

Regardless, it generated waaaaay faster

I guess you watched videos of transferred chars with combat frenzy 2 farming lvl10 during the first months of the console game

Misconception, it's not just that. Console ESO actually has a faster rate of ult gen per second on the 'ult gen buff' than PC does. Been like that ever since console release.

CtrlAltDlt · January 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

I have a feeling this game will always be balanced around numbers having some sort of advantage.

Balancing toward skill having the advantage discourages casuals = less $ for ZoS.

Bingo

Ezareth · January 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that AoE caps are killing this game. I say this objectively. PvP would be in a wholly healthier place without them.

Zerg more, my friends. Zerg more.

Edit: also, proxy det is poor design and is unhealthy for PvP.

You know things are getting bad when you see @FENGRUSH running with a ball group.

CatchMeTrolling · January 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

I take it this means you don't have a video.

Been there, done that. If you want to have that "well I haven't done it so no one else can do it" outlook so be it lol Zerg bombing is pretty common, like I said its people with builds built just for that purpose.

If you read Wrobel's "discussion" post on AoE caps, you will quickly see that I am hardly the only person who has difficulty imagining how your 3 wiped 40. If 3 could wipe 40 by simply creating a specific build and executing some abilities correctly, there would be zero complaints about AoE caps.

I never said 40, I said you shouldn't be able to wipe 40 with 3 people. But I have wiped 15-20 with just 3 people and killed way more than that as emperor before.

And the problem with Zerg bombing builds is the fact that's all they are for, so no it's not that simple as you're thinking it is. You sacrifice everything just for the Big Bang, it means that everyone would have to play with the same build. And I do know dedicated groups that run around with small groups of 10 spamming bats, proxy and whatever aoe they have such as sap wiping zergs.

And it's not that hard to imagine you're thinking about it from a PC perspective, plenty of new players on console still.

CatchMeTrolling · January 2016

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

duuude9192b14_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

This may not be the "end-all be-all" solution but it definitely contributes in a big way to helping pvp. Along with other changes, specifically siege dmg and that being uncapped, this I believe to be a rather effective way to make pvp a better experience.

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

Beautifully written rebuttal. Absolutely beautiful.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

PUGs dont nearly derive as much benefit/protection from AoE caps as Zergballs.

I want to see the video of your 3 man wiping large groups. When it is up for display and everyone can see and replicate how exactly you have done this, then all complaints about AoE caps will go away because you will have conclusively refuted the 87% of us who want to do away with them. Shortly thereafter, the whole blob meta and its accompanying lag will be greatly diminished since the solution to exterminating this menace will be on public display for all of us to learn from and do ourselves.

When people decide to stack on the flag you just bomb them all at once. When people decide to huddle up together on the battlefield you bomb them all at once.

But I can clearly see console cyrodiil and PC is different. That or no one knows how strong bats, proxy and sap is combined, you can wipe up to 10 people by yourself with it.

Yes there's builds out there built specifically for bombing big groups and small 2-5 man group's teaming up just to get a good wipe.

You can also lead people to the top of a resource tower and wipe them but it's usually little by little, wouldn't count that as zerg bombing just randoms not knowing how to work together.

First of all, flags only require SIX players to reach the maximum capture speed for a flag flip. There is ABSOLUTELY no need to ball up 30 players on a flag. It's a bad habit invented by a terribly practiced drone play-style.

Furthermore, stacking 30 players anywhere in cyrodil WILL be unnecessary when AOE caps are removed. It is an antiquated and bad tactic to place all your troops in a tight area on a battlefield, unless you consider the current state of AOE Caps and numbers. Generally, flanking maneuvers and special small team roles take place that require spreading out and give you much more advantage in battle.

You do realize PC and console is played very differently right? Never mind lol you guys are right

Forgive me, I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps it's the late/early hour that I find myself awake in, but to my knowledge, the game's mechanics are the virtually the same PC/console.

More noobs, more unfinished builds , more people still figuring out the game, more casuals. Just look at videos of transfers taking on multiple people. Actually Lefty Lucy just put up a new video, look at the number 1 clip & you'll see how bad it can be.

Virtually can be the same game but not the same experienced players, no one even uses purge on console they still use purifying ritual. Still attack sides of keeps they shouldn't, such as the front door while its heavily contested. There's a huge lack of organized groups, everyday in area chat you hear "who needs a group/who has a group?" Therefore it's a lot of terrible groups running around cyrodiil.

Keep that in mind, you'll quickly realize people find safety in numbers, so I highly doubt people will start to split up like others think. With aoe caps gone prepare to get steam rolled even quicker by zerg balls, those same caps still protect good players against bad players who can't use their numbers correctly. I don't know about you but I don't want to instantly get killed while I'm trying to hold a breach with 15 people and the enemy has about 50 getting ready to Zerg up the stairs spamming every aoe they can with a faster ttk.

Right now I actually can hold off larger numbers, without caps I'm not so sure about stopping a zerg with endless damage.

ArcVelarian · January 2016

I remember the flawed logic behind AoE caps had something to do with PvE. The simplest fix I can see for this is to remove AoE caps in Cyrodiil only and have them applied in all other zones as an invisible debuff.

Of course, that would be WAY too easy a fix for such a horrible problem. So good luck getting ZOS to fix it.

PainfulFAFA · January 2016

Nafirian wrote: »

Imma just leave these here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

dat Ulti Regen...

frozywozy · January 2016

@zos_brian

Ezareth wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that AoE caps are killing this game. I say this objectively. PvP would be in a wholly healthier place without them.

Zerg more, my friends. Zerg more.

Edit: also, proxy det is poor design and is unhealthy for PvP.

You know things are getting bad when you see @FENGRUSH running with a ball group.

As he said during stream, he was only doing a stress test with his new computer settings!

Ezareth · January 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

@zos_brian

Ezareth wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that AoE caps are killing this game. I say this objectively. PvP would be in a wholly healthier place without them.

Zerg more, my friends. Zerg more.

Edit: also, proxy det is poor design and is unhealthy for PvP.

You know things are getting bad when you see @FENGRUSH running with a ball group.

As he said during stream, he was only doing a stress test with his new computer settings!

Ahh good to know. I wasn't watching at the time. I lose too much good footage because of Fengrush Audio in the background. He's like the Mark Levin of ESO...I just love listening to his Angry rants.