Gidorick wrote: »

I agree with this @Merry but since ESO is character based NOW I don't think it would be a wise change... there are those that like the way achievements work now.

If ESO was designed with account wide achievements from the get go, that would be different. There's nothing wrong with account wide achievements in general. However, changing it now would be changing a system that some players enjoy to satisfy other players. ZOS would end up with a zero sum... so just leave it as is.

I dont know about GW2 but WoW started with char bound achieves then moved to account wide later. Not all of them are account wide either. They really took the time to go through each type and work on how to handle it. For example, "Kill x number of y" achieves can be contributed to, and earned, by all alts in the battlenet (so if you have more than one account as long as they are linked in the battlenet they will all receive credit towards these achieves no matter which char did the actual killing). Achieves like "have an epic item in each item slot" can only be completed by each individual char. Making them account wide also gave them more freedom to add some, for example "have one char of each class level capped". It gave people more things to do, and more reason to roll alts.

The problem is that they just wont put the work in needed to do this. Ive played a lot of games over the course of my decades of gaming and ZOS are one of, if not the, laziest developers Ive run across. This game has too much potential wasted and too many things that could be done, or done better, already.

One of my best examples of the lazy work done is swimming/water. The lack of underwater swimming, which if implemented would allow us so many more quest/exploration/achievement opportunities, is lazy and in a game in this day and age is remiss. Another quick example: The delves. They are basically all the same with a little variation in layout. Lazy. There are more but you get the gist. They wont be putting time or energy into a revamped achievement system imho.

Anyway, its a great idea...

M

nordsavage wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Nope. Don't agree that achievements should be account-bound. Achievements are tied to a specific character's progression/effort. They're just fillers, you don't need them for anything except to use the titles as bragging rights. Other rewards (dyes, costumes) are already account-wide. Leave them be.

Bragging rights that we want access to on all of our alts. Again this thread is not for casual collectors like you. This is us hardcore collectors who chase big game wanting our recognition and a sense of completion without needless gaps in our lists or redoing work that we already did across alts that do not see the same amount of use. It may be just filler to you but it is a hobby to us.

Casual collector? Muahahahaha I have over 15500 achievement points on my main. Only missing a couple collectibles, lots of alliance war ranks (though I did make it to rank 20) and the odd miscellaneous achievement, so guess again.

Still think achievements should be character specific. If you really were "hardcore" as you claim to be, you'd understand the logic behind it. Instead, you come across just as entitled as the people asking to level PvP or PvE skill lines without playing the content.

I will apologize for assuming you do not have many achievements but go get the trove and cunning scamps slayer tier 3, Master Angler, all the collectables/monsters trophy, max your alliance rank and buy/grind/crown store all the motifs for those achievements plus any other ones that take weeks or months then come back and tell me you want to do it across eight alts. Especially when new content for this game is right around the corner and continually planned. Coming from other platforms and games where achievements are account shared this does not make sense to have to recollect them all. Then you bring up entitlement. Not once did I say give players free skills. You come across as a troll or contrarian for the sake of it when you use "Entitled" as an argument. Pretty mediocre nephew. You cannot tell me how account wide achievements would actually be bad for ESO. With so many examples of account wide achievements that do not negatively affect a game or platform in existence you have to step up your game.

Good, so we got the issue of assuming stuff about other posters out of the way. On to my substantive objections.

Some games have achievements or trophies that are independent of a character. These are mostly games where your character is always the same. Some games where you can create several characters also have game-wide achievements. What I'm arguing is that, by design, this model does not fit ESO.

Achievements in ESO reflect a given character's path and experiences. It doesn't make sense for me to have level 1 characters use a title that implies they've conquered trials or dungeons they were never in.

Moreover, the only other tangible reward - dyes - is already account-wide, so there is no need to do it on several characters. Unless you want to, that is.

The only point I concede is that SOME achievements discourage playing multiple characters due to excessive grind. The only ones I think suffer from this are the monster collectibles, IC sewers scamps and AvA ranks. But this is a problem with how they're earned, not a problem with them being character-specific.

I strongly disagree that alliance rank should be account wide. The other points I can concede if achievement saturation is important to the rest of the community. I will say it's not important to me. Not even a little.

I like to think of myself as having 2 mains since launch, including both being mid 20-something alliance rank (my alts are all Corporal or below). But my achievements tell a different story, with one having almost 5,000 more points than the other. He's the one I grinded the slayer achievements on, and farmed dolmen, and have been fishing until mental numbness with. He earned those achievements, not my Templar, and not any of the lowbies. By contrast, when my Templar was healer-spec I got all the group dungeon achievements, and 2 of the trial hard mode completions. I can't claim those completions on my other toons. I can't understand the mindset of people that are bothered by this distinction.

nordsavage wrote: »

This thread is not about those who do not wish to collect. Some of us find satisfaction and completion in achievements. By your logic gaming itself is a waste of time because there is not real world reward for digital actions.

On the contrary, it's absolutely about those who do not wish to collect. You seem to be under the illusion that those who want all achievements to be shared among their characters who all benefit from them therefore regardless of whether they have collected them to be hardcore collectors, while dismissing those of us who want our characters to be credited only with those achievements they have actually earned as not wishing to collect. It is precisely those who find satisfaction and completion in achievements who want them to be earned and not shared. It seems to me that you are applying the tags "hardcore collector" and "not wishing to collect" entirely the wrong way round.

Tandor wrote: »

I hate the whole concept of things being account-wide, be they achievements as suggested here or dye unlocks as already existing. What next - unlocking skyshards? I want my characters to make their own progress in the game and not just coast through the game on one character's progress.

Ok then you need to take all the gear, items, crafted supplies and return them to the characters that found and made in them. You want to cherry pick what is account wide. But you will not do that. Hypocrites. This goes for any of you who are against but cross character anything. Do the math and only allocate the CP you earned per alt while you are at it.

BabeestorGor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Nope. Don't agree that achievements should be account-bound. Achievements are tied to a specific character's progression/effort. They're just fillers, you don't need them for anything except to use the titles as bragging rights. Other rewards (dyes, costumes) are already account-wide. Leave them be.

Bragging rights that we want access to on all of our alts. Again this thread is not for casual collectors like you. This is us hardcore collectors who chase big game wanting our recognition and a sense of completion without needless gaps in our lists or redoing work that we already did across alts that do not see the same amount of use. It may be just filler to you but it is a hobby to us.

So hardcore that you want the right to brag about it for alts that haven't actually done the achievement?
Next you'll be wanting titles to be account-wide too.

I bet you are happy to link or brag about items, CP amount, motifs you have that were earned on other alts.

i agree for the collecting resource one XD i'll never harvest 10,000 things and maybe the collectables and fishing. not so much for the dungeon achievements.

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

This thread is not about those who do not wish to collect. Some of us find satisfaction and completion in achievements. By your logic gaming itself is a waste of time because there is not real world reward for digital actions.

On the contrary, it's absolutely about those who do not wish to collect. You seem to be under the illusion that those who want all achievements to be shared among their characters who all benefit from them therefore regardless of whether they have collected them to be hardcore collectors, while dismissing those of us who want our characters to be credited only with those achievements they have actually earned as not wishing to collect. It is precisely those who find satisfaction and completion in achievements who want them to be earned and not shared. It seems to me that you are applying the tags "hardcore collector" and "not wishing to collect" entirely the wrong way round.

If someone does not collect or care about achievements then logically they should not care if it goes account wide. I am not concerned as much of those who are half in half out as I am the dedicated. I speak for the dedicated.

daemonios wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I hate the whole concept of things being account-wide, be they achievements as suggested here or dye unlocks as already existing. What next - unlocking skyshards? I want my characters to make their own progress in the game and not just coast through the game on one character's progress.

Ok then you need to take all the gear, items, crafted supplies and return them to the characters that found and made in them. You want to cherry pick what is account wide. But you will not do that. Hypocrites. This goes for any of you who are against but cross character anything. Do the math and only allocate the CP you earned per alt while you are at it.

Those things aren't remotely comparable. Gear could conceivably be gifted between characters, so I don't see an issue except in the case of bound on pickup. But I happen to think BoP is actually worse than the plague and would love to see it removed, so...

As for CP, same issue. I saw no reason to remove the VR grind - it was never an issue for me, and I've leveled several characters to VR16 - and replace it with a 3600 level grind. I'd prefer character-bound levels rather than the account-wide CP we have now.

They are connected and its no worse than you saying "What next - unlocking skyshards?". You want to "coast" by on your crafting alts months of research and twink Julianos to your other characters. You did not earn 501 CP on a new alt that cannot earn CP for 50 levels but you are happy to plug them in. You want seperate experiences between your alts then "gifting" gear as you put it should not be possible as each character is its own bubble realm independent of your other characters. Again Hypocrisy.

As for gear, I still think it's an apples to oranges comparison. By your reasoning, crafters couldn't sell gear to other players, nor could non-bound gear be traded. I've stated my point, I won't pursue it any further.

For the CP part, I didn't ask for it and I'm not happy with it. Again, as I already said before, I'd much rather level my characters independently of each other. As it is, we have an account-wide system. I won't deliberately gimp my characters by not using CP as they were intended to be used. If that's hypocritical for you, then by all means pat yourself on the back for calling me out on it.

Oh, and do stop presuming you speak for all players who are dedicated to getting achievements. As I said before, I have nearly all achievements on my main character, and you certainly do not speak for me. Your opinion is your opinion. Others may agree or disagree, but it's a bit arrogant to announce that you speak for a whole class of players.

Well I know many other achievement hunters and am part of several major achievement hunting groups and websites across several platforms. I speak from the view and experiences of many. So me saying I speak for the dedicated is not that much of a stretch. As for you, I would go as far as to call you delusional if you cannot see that account wide achievements and account wide everything else (Gear, Items etc.) are all part of the same whole. Selling gear to other players would be different then transferring gear to other alts as other players can technically be in the same universe as your crafter. Each of your other alts are another story/realm separate from one another by your point of view. You want a per character vanilla experience then live up to it and stop trying to cherry pick. Get rid of the gear, get rid of the items, get rid of the CP and anything else that was derived from your other alts or again you are a hypocrite. You prove one of my points that you collect collect on your "Main" but not on all your alts because you know you are not going to put the same amount of effort in. I would not mind seeing proof of the hardest or most time consuming achievements from you. Lets see if you have more than "bulk" achievements.

daemonios wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

[snip] I would go as far as to call you delusional [snip] again you are a hypocrite. [snip]I would not mind seeing proof [snip]

Lol. You REALLY need to take a chill pill. You're taking this far too seriously if you're demanding proof and can't refrain from using personal insults instead of arguments. We don't agree. It happens, deal with it. I'm out.

Says the guy who is going back and forth post for post. I knew you would bow out a crunch time. Checkmate buddy and achievement unlocked. With a decade give or take of collecting achievements and more than twice that gaming you bet your sweet thang I take this serious. I do not write a post like this without firing on all cylinders.

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I hate the whole concept of things being account-wide, be they achievements as suggested here or dye unlocks as already existing. What next - unlocking skyshards? I want my characters to make their own progress in the game and not just coast through the game on one character's progress.

Ok then you need to take all the gear, items, crafted supplies and return them to the characters that found and made in them. You want to cherry pick what is account wide. But you will not do that. Hypocrites. This goes for any of you who are against but cross character anything. Do the math and only allocate the CP you earned per alt while you are at it.

Actually, my characters are all self-sufficient crafting-wise. I can't do anything about CPs and dye unlocks as they're built into the system, but I'd much rather they weren't account-wide and wherever possible I like my characters to earn everything for themselves.

Again, you're aiming your criticism at the wrong people. Don't claim to be a serious collector and then call other people hypocrites when they're the ones wanting their own characters to be responsible for their own collecting while you, the self-proclaimed serious collector, want the collecting to be shared across your characters.

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

This thread is not about those who do not wish to collect. Some of us find satisfaction and completion in achievements. By your logic gaming itself is a waste of time because there is not real world reward for digital actions.

On the contrary, it's absolutely about those who do not wish to collect. You seem to be under the illusion that those who want all achievements to be shared among their characters who all benefit from them therefore regardless of whether they have collected them to be hardcore collectors, while dismissing those of us who want our characters to be credited only with those achievements they have actually earned as not wishing to collect. It is precisely those who find satisfaction and completion in achievements who want them to be earned and not shared. It seems to me that you are applying the tags "hardcore collector" and "not wishing to collect" entirely the wrong way round.

If someone does not collect or care about achievements then logically they should not care if it goes account wide. I am not concerned as much of those who are half in half out as I am the dedicated. I speak for the dedicated.

You speak for yourself, no-one else. As for being dedicated, true dedication would involve every character earning their own achievements, not doing them once and then sharing them. You are right, however, in saying that logically those not interested in collecting achievements shouldn't be bothered about them being made account-wide. It is certainly those who do take collecting achievements seriously who will be bothered by that, they will want each achievement to mean something to the character that collected it and not be pooled with achievements collected by other characters.

Wanting to collect every single achievement in the game no matter how many characters contributed to the collection isn't as dedicated as wanting it all to be done by one character, and then repeated separately for any other characters.

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

This thread is not about those who do not wish to collect. Some of us find satisfaction and completion in achievements. By your logic gaming itself is a waste of time because there is not real world reward for digital actions.

On the contrary, it's absolutely about those who do not wish to collect. You seem to be under the illusion that those who want all achievements to be shared among their characters who all benefit from them therefore regardless of whether they have collected them to be hardcore collectors, while dismissing those of us who want our characters to be credited only with those achievements they have actually earned as not wishing to collect. It is precisely those who find satisfaction and completion in achievements who want them to be earned and not shared. It seems to me that you are applying the tags "hardcore collector" and "not wishing to collect" entirely the wrong way round.

If someone does not collect or care about achievements then logically they should not care if it goes account wide. I am not concerned as much of those who are half in half out as I am the dedicated. I speak for the dedicated.

You speak for yourself, no-one else. As for being dedicated, true dedication would involve every character earning their own achievements, not doing them once and then sharing them. You are right, however, in saying that logically those not interested in collecting achievements shouldn't be bothered about them being made account-wide. It is certainly those who do take collecting achievements seriously who will be bothered by that, they will want each achievement to mean something to the character that collected it and not be pooled with achievements collected by other characters.

Wanting to collect every single achievement in the game no matter how many characters contributed to the collection isn't as dedicated as wanting it all to be done by one character, and then repeated separately for any other characters.

I do speak for many and you know you will not collect all the hardest and time consuming on all of your alts. I am sure you would not even bother on a second alt. We are talking about hundreds if not thousands of hours. So unless you intend to do that amount of work why argue against.

Because what matters to me is that the achievements I get are applied to the characters that got them, and not to those that did not. I shall aim for all the achievements all of my characters can get, but I'd prefer that they earn their own achievements rather than benefit from sharing those earned by my other characters.

Being able to unlock achievements as each character progresses through the game is an essential part of the whole idea of playing multiple characters when looking to do so for leveling enjoyment rather than simply to create another instant character for endgame. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Elloa wrote: »

Okay guys....

Considering that Achievement unlock dies that are ACCOUNT based, and sometimes collectible that are ACCOUNT based.... tell me what's the TRUE purpose of Achievements. Like really...

It serve NO PURPOSE other than bragging about it. So why on earth do you need to collect achievements on a character that have not achieved the thing in question? It change nothing for you anyway. SO leave it that way seriously.

I don't see why you would need achievement while doing nothing. If you are a completionist, complete. And if you hate grind those achievement AGAIN, well. DO NOT DO IT!

I don't understand you guys. This request has no sense IMHO.
But to be franck, I could not care less to have the achievement account, or character based. It just seems weird to me that its bothering you.

Did you not read the parts about how long some of these take to complete. That is assuming they work right which they do not always do, the old school fisherman know what I mean, and that the balance is equal for different classes in attempting them. As for why people collect them in the first place it is a part of the game we like and we find reaching the goals satisfying. If you question it its worth than you almost question gaming as a whole. I do not care for role play but if that is how someone wants to spend their game time I leave it be as I understand it is how they enjoy the game. Even though you could call it pretending within pretending.

I'd certainly support separate bank accounts for each character,no cross-faction trading between characters on the same account, and CP being individual to the character.

I play characters not accounts and I'd rather achievements were earned by characters. Funny how the self-declared hardcore collector wants easy mode.