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Am I the only one that finds ganking shameful?
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO :
Imagine you (player A) are ganked and killed with 400 stones by a ganker (player B ) who also has 400 stones. Than a friend of yours (player C) you've called for help on teamspeak rushes into the zone and kills player B. 400 stones is IMHO a good average of the amount of stones people run around with : you need 15-30 minutes top to collect them and it's not enough yet to go bank them.
With the current system, the result is :
- player A : 0 stones
- player B : 0 stones
- player C : 800 stones
With the systme you want, the result would be :
- player A : 0 stones
- player B : 800 stones (even though if was the loser in the end !)
- player C : 0 stones.
See ? part of the fun is to have your friends come and help / avenge you, stones flipping from one player to the next and one, and even the possibility to take your own revenge if you can respawn close enough and come back quickly.
Your system would totally kill these processes, which are quite entertaining, and would prevent everyone from taking any revenge, from the possibility to get their stones back by taking up another fight. It would not be fair.
Groups would abuse this mechanic : "oh, you got nothing to fear from player XYZ 'cos I just rekt him and he's got no stones".
Etc.Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on December 30, 2015 4:44PM0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭as opposed to the shame of zerging?
As much as no lone likes being ganked, it has it's tactical place.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »@cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO :
Imagine you (player A) are ganked and killed with 400 stones by a ganker (player B ) who also has 400 stones. Than a friend of yours (player C) you've called for help on teamspeak rushes into the zone and kills player B.
With the current system, the result is :
- player A : 0 stones
- player B : 0 stones
- player C : 800 stones
With the systme you want, the result would be :
- player A : 0 stones
- player B : 800 stones (even though if was the loser in the end !)
- player C : 0 stones.
See ? part of the fun is to have your friends come and help / avenge you, stones flipping from one player to the next and one, and even the possibility to take your own revenge if you can respawn close enough and come back quickly.
Your system would totally kill these processes, which are quite entertaining, and would prevent everyone from taking any revenge, from the possibility to get their stones back by taking up another fight. It would not be fair.
Groups would abuse this mechanic : "oh, you got nothing to fear from player XYZ 'cos I just rekt him and he's got no stones".
Etc.
Well, make it maybe 10-20% then with 0 TV's with more if you got TV's on you, up to a max of 80% gained from the person killed, but atm with 80% taken from players with no risk for the ganker there's just imbalance and all the reward for the ganker. at least don't do it so rewarding with no risk.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Well, make it maybe 10-20% then with 0 TV's with more if you got TV's on you, up to a max of 80% gained from the person killed, but atm with 80% taken from players with no risk for the ganker there's just imbalance and all the reward for the ganker. at least don't do it so rewarding with no risk.
Stop considering that the ganker takes no risk.
When he enters the sewers he has zero stones, just like you.
When he starts ganking people he gets stones and is at risk, just like you are when you start farming stones on mobs.
You might argue that he will collect more stones on players than on mobs ? TRUE, but he will also encounter far less players than you'll encounter mobs, so all in all it's quite balanced.
It's not unusual when I manage to defend myself efficiently against a ganker's attack and kill the ganker (what a bliss, by the way, great satisfaction in that), that I collect 1K+ stones from them.
Gankers can be fought, gankers can be beaten, and gankers can be ganked. And they have no reason to carry more or less stones than anyone else. And just as many possibilities to go banking them as often as he wants as anyone.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on December 30, 2015 4:56PM2 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Well, make it maybe 10-20% then with 0 TV's with more if you got TV's on you, up to a max of 80% gained from the person killed, but atm with 80% taken from players with no risk for the ganker there's just imbalance and all the reward for the ganker. at least don't do it so rewarding with no risk.
Stop considering that the ganker takes no risk.
When he enters the sewers he has zero stones, just like you.
When he starts ganking people he gets stones and is at risk, just like you are when you start farming stones on mobs.
You might argue that he will collect more stones on players than on mobs ? TRUE, but he will also encounter far less players than you'll encounter mobs, so all in all it's quite balanced.
It's not unusual when I manage to defend myself efficiently against a ganker's attack and kill the ganker (what a bliss, by the way, great satisfaction in that), that I collect 1K+ stones from them.
Gankers can be fought, gankers can be beaten, and gankers can be ganked. And they have no reason to carry more or less stones than anyone else. And just as many possibilities to go banking them as often as he wants as anyone.
As I said, I can handle myself 1v1 or even 1v2 sometimes, but if you think there's risk for a ganker that just have to run back if they're killed without any risk of losing anything at all by dying, then you're just wrong. The gankers can always just farm mobs too if they think there's a risk in ganking while having stones on them, or just go into cyrodiil and do some real pvp.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD1 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would make 2-3 changes to the system.
(1) If a player gains 100 stones or more from another player, suiciding out on mobs or using a teleport stone within the next 30min loses them 80% of the stones in their possession.
I PvP for stones on a regular basis and feel slightly uncomfortable because if I make a big score, I can suicide, bank the stones, and come right back to look for the next farmer. Absolutely no risk on my part in the entire process, no need to so much as use a teleport stone. If I end up receiving a huge number of stones (10k +), I'll usually use a stone.
As an aside, I find it funny that the teleport stones were added as a mechanic for farmers to push deeper into the sewers and be able to come back without losing their stones, but in practice, it's much more valuable when thieving stones than when farming. The number of players I have taken stones from while they are trying to cast the teleport.. It attracts me like a moth to flame because I KNOW they have tel var if they are using a teleport stone. Fail implementation on the same level as proxy det.
(2) Increase the crouch/invisibility detect range of mobs.
The biggest advantage I have as an NB is that I can get to a farmer without killing a single mob. Meanwhile, by the time a farmer goes to the center and back, their gear is swiss cheese. I never hit players quite as hard as I do in IC. An alternative to this would be to place repair merchants throughout the sewers.
(3) Any mobs an enemy player is engaged with when a player attacks have a 50% chance to aggro.
There are a couple of mini-bosses that do this. The funniest of all is the one on the EP side. Nothing like dropping a bomb out of stealth just to have a mini-boss you never saw teleport into the tunnel in which you are killing a player to stun you mid-theft. This adds a very interesting mechanic I have to be careful of and I like it. Should extend it to all mobs.0 -
Xellos77✭✭✭I don't care about gankers. If they kill me with zest, I am entertained. If I review my death log and see that 3 NB's accosted me and spammed nothing than Ambush, it's par for the course and nothing to really say about it.Ebonheart Pact/PS4/NA1 -
Loves_guars✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, you aren't the only one of course, but there will always be a lot amoral players a.k.a "it's just a game", "I'm rol playing", that will do it. I recommend that you don't participate in groups that you see ganking, be vocal about it, or simply don't play games that encourage this behavior.0 -
cyx54tc✭✭✭✭pve folks gets the tvs multiplier by carrying more stones. Why do you think the multiplier exists in the first place? gankers never had that multiplier.0
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Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »If ZOS would not FORCE pve players into the IC ganking zone,
because only there they can get TV stones for V16 runes,
Nothing forces you into IC. You can buy VR16 runes in guild stores no problem. Or from guildies/friends who enjoy IC.
That's just pretty damn selfish thinking there.Only PvPers and gankers should be allowed to get stones in IC?? No.It was created and advertised as for both PvPers AND PvErs,so both should be able to attain (and keep) their items.2 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »I would make 2-3 changes to the system.
(1) If a player gains 100 stones or more from another player, suiciding out on mobs or using a teleport stone within the next 30min loses them 80% of the stones in their possession.
Unfortunately, that would also penalize someone who successfully defends themselves from a ganker, gets some stones, and then dies while "peacefully" farming mobs.
"Eat my Overload, ganker! ... oh crap, who aggro'd the banner boss?!"
Since most of the stealth gankers/griefers don't really care about the TV stones, it does nothing to deter them and makes the experience more frustrating and less rewarding for the farmers and open PvP'ers.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »If ZOS would not FORCE pve players into the IC ganking zone,
because only there they can get TV stones for V16 runes,
Nothing forces you into IC. You can buy VR16 runes in guild stores no problem. Or from guildies/friends who enjoy IC.
That's just pretty damn selfish thinking there.Only PvPers and gankers should be allowed to get stones in IC?? No.It was created and advertised as for both PvPers AND PvErs,so both should be able to attain (and keep) their items.
??? Stones are no items, they're a currency, and everything that can be bought with stones can also be bought with gold from different sources. Where's the problem ? Everything else you loot in IC you keep.
Nothing FORCES anyone into IC if they don't like it.
Now if the problem is that you feel *excluded* from IC just because it's not like YOU would like it to be, then it's your vision that's maybe a little bit too self-centered. Still, you should make up your mind whether you feel forced inside or forced outside IC.
People in general should also stop exaggerating when it comes to IC. It is perfectly possible to farm quietly there for hours, it's not like there's a ganker on every corner. And being in a group of 2 will immunize you against 50% of the gankers already. It's not that bad.Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on December 30, 2015 7:13PM1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »BalticBlues wrote: »If ZOS would not FORCE pve players into the IC ganking zone,
because only there they can get TV stones for V16 runes,
Nothing forces you into IC. You can buy VR16 runes in guild stores no problem. Or from guildies/friends who enjoy IC.
That's just pretty damn selfish thinking there.Only PvPers and gankers should be allowed to get stones in IC?? No.It was created and advertised as for both PvPers AND PvErs,so both should be able to attain (and keep) their items.
??? Stones are no items, they're a currency, and everything that can be bought with stones can also be bought with gold from different sources. Where's the problem ? Everything else you loot in IC you keep.
Nothing FORCES anyone into IC if they don't like it.
Now if the problem is that you feel *excluded* from IC just because it's not like YOU would like it to be, then it's your vision that's maybe a little bit too self-centered. Still, you should make up your mind whether you feel forced inside or forced outside IC.
People in this forum give their opinions every day.So why is MY opinion so very different? It's just an opinion,friend.Nothing more. :}
Having said that,..currency is an item,due to it being interchangeable.The word "item" means anything one can use,or exchange.
Meaning of: "A single article or unit in a collection.",which stones are.1 -
Darkius✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Gankers should have some sort of risk involved, like needing 200 stones to enter a enemy part of the sewers or something.
I agree, and I'm part of the ones who kill a lot of players in enemy sewers.
As somebody said earlier, there is a difference between pure ganking and going to the enemy base to PvP. I actually don't really care about Telvar Stones (although it feels awesome when you get a lot) so the reason why I keep doing that is because I hate large-scale conflicts taking place in Cyrodiil.
I usually try to roll up to the enemy NOT in sneak in 1v1, but 1VX is different. Groups deserve to die.
Everybody hates a sneak Ambush and full gank combo, especially from more than 1 person. The counter? Run back fast, kill them. Made a lot of stones like that."The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."
Sun Tzu0 -
Daraugh✭✭✭✭✭To be fair, that guy was a victim of a camo hunter double-proc exploiter. So while he did err riding his horse, its a bad example.
You're right, I actually thought about it later on that the guy was on the receiving end of a bug and it seemed a little harsh written out in my comment...
Still the fact remains that my pvp skills still have an "s" at the end of them. Just skills, not skillz lol. Or courage and bravery as @Alucardo suggests, yeah that one, that's better
I think I'm not really getting what the problem is here. Last night on BwB we have a few big organized DC groups that may or may not have been called zerg! by AD or EP. What constitutes a zerg? What constitutes a gank? If I'm alone on my s+b Dk and and take out some other lone person did I gank or did I fight? I'm not stealthing, I'm not out hunting, there was an opportunity that was there that could have been mine or theirs. If the leader wants people to guard the postern doors or the breach in the wall, is that ganking or defending? If stealth is your best tool, why not use it? The only one that everyone seems to agree on is people hiding at the IC doors just to prevent others from going in is ganking, since that's useless beyond being a %%%%.
Maybe I'm being overly INTP trying to define it in such a way, it's just that I have fun learning all the pvp stuff even if my most frequent thought is Patrick Star's quote "oh I got dead again."
May all beings have happiness
May they be free from suffering
May they find the joy that has never known suffering
May they be free from attachment and hatred0 -
jarrandub17_ESO✭✭✭Shameful? Nope. Pathetic? Nope.
It's a game which has this PvP environment built in to allow if not encourage this very behavior.0 -
PosternHouse✭✭✭✭There are no gentleman's agreements in Cyrodiil. Protect thine arse, or thine arse shall be taken.1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Asherons_Call wrote: »You are not the only one. Unwritten rules are going by the wayside where treating others how you yourself would like to be treated are becoming a thing of the past
not a big surprise, given the trash that passes for leadership in modern society. bloody fekking shame, is that.
but it's an entirely different discussion and i've no wish to derail the thread.
gankers aren't going anywhere, but it can be quite rewarding, and educational, to try and hunt them while farming stones and trophies.
I hate to break up the grumpy old reactionaries convention, but I don't gank, but I am fine getting ganked in the PvP zone. That is the expectation. I like having the threat. It adds to the atmosphere, and that is how the game was designed to be played.
Instead of reacting as a grumpy old person and blaming others, blame yourself for not being able to accept the a zone in a game was designed to pander to what you want. So if everything isn't designed exactly how you like it, something is wrong with modern society?Edited by DaveMoeDee on December 30, 2015 8:59PM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Well, make it maybe 10-20% then with 0 TV's with more if you got TV's on you, up to a max of 80% gained from the person killed, but atm with 80% taken from players with no risk for the ganker there's just imbalance and all the reward for the ganker. at least don't do it so rewarding with no risk.
Stop considering that the ganker takes no risk.
When he enters the sewers he has zero stones, just like you.
When he starts ganking people he gets stones and is at risk, just like you are when you start farming stones on mobs.
You might argue that he will collect more stones on players than on mobs ? TRUE, but he will also encounter far less players than you'll encounter mobs, so all in all it's quite balanced.
It's not unusual when I manage to defend myself efficiently against a ganker's attack and kill the ganker (what a bliss, by the way, great satisfaction in that), that I collect 1K+ stones from them.
Gankers can be fought, gankers can be beaten, and gankers can be ganked. And they have no reason to carry more or less stones than anyone else. And just as many possibilities to go banking them as often as he wants as anyone.
The better criticism is that the ganker adds no stones to the pool. The more people farm, the more stones available. Gankers just redistribute stones. They don't generate any. If no one takes the time to farm, we have a bunch of zero stone players killing one another.
If someone farms and is killed by a ganker, if the ganker does no farming, it slows the increase in the amount of stones among players in IC since they are wasting the multiplier, and the person ganked lost their multiplier.
But this criticism can be pointless if gankers don't care about stones. Some just want to kill people.0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP right now is just a DPS race. And how do you make sure to win the race? Start early.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pardon me guys I gotta lie, steal, and murder my way through Tamriel facing mobs that are most often significantly weaker than I and jumping them from stealth. But yeah...ganking man that's just unfair am I right?Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Radiant Magelight.....everyone can use it, in fact you don't even need to use it someone else can that is near you and stealthed. I know, I know, having to use abilities to counter certain play styles is just unfair, you should be able to just do whatever you want and not die.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..2 -
They made it so one of the currencies needed for gear can be looted? The developers must not have known how disparate PvP can be in MMOs.0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Why? 200 stones is nothing and can gain 200 Tel Var stones in 2 - 3 minutes starting from 0 stones.leepalmer95 wrote: »Gankers should have some sort of risk involved, like needing 200 stones to enter a enemy part of the sewers or something.
God no man.
There should be no restrictions like that in a PVP DLC. The thing I like most about IC is it feels like a mini open world PVP zone where anything goes.
If you're not prepared to fight, then you're in the wrong place. Go try Wrothgar, or the other 98% of ESO dedicated to PVE zones.
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TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you are going to gank....at least try to do it by yourself as that is still a fair fight as it is still 1 on 1, if you are ganking in a group of several people against 1 person then that is just sad and shows how hopeless you are unless that person is highly skilled or the Emporer who really many wouldn't have a choice but to do this against.
when I am in Cyrodiil questing and I know the person standing in front of me is non-hostile then I will leave them alone but if they are hostile and prevent me from questing, they will leave me and many others with no choice.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ganking is a part of the PvP, even if you don't like it. You just have to accept it.
True.... but was it really necessary to DELIBERATELY structure the Imperial City DLC to ENCOURAGE ganking?
Simply changing the Tel Var payout to 10% instead of 80% would be a huge improvement to the Risk vs. Reward balance.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Ganking is a part of the PvP, even if you don't like it. You just have to accept it.
True.... but was it really necessary to DELIBERATELY structure the Imperial City DLC to ENCOURAGE ganking?
Simply changing the Tel Var payout to 10% instead of 80% would be a huge improvement to the Risk vs. Reward balance.
Better idea:
- get killed: lose 30% of your stones
- get killed, but attacked first (ganker): lose 80% of your stonesEdited by Tryxus on December 31, 2015 12:26AM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ganking is totally part of the game and glad for it. If you don't want to get ganked run magelight throw caltrops in passageways or around you, throw mines down on passage ways. Run and use revealing flare. Run and use defensive rune and keep your shields up. Stay in stealth and hold block when not moving. Don't carry a bunch of stones, wear better armor etc there are lots of things you could do. You choose not to and reap the consequences of doing so. Many ppl I have ganked jump off the horse and gave me a beating or had five fiends etc.... Many ppl that have ganked me donated their tel var stones then I sigil retreat over their body as I thank them. Seems like a learn to defend issue.
bloody marvelous advice.
how's that work for those who don't have access to those skills, yet? (or never will, as much of the above is class or pvpv specific?)
oh, right...they're nothing but fodder.
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