Am I the only one that finds ganking shameful?

Alucardo · December 2015

Daraugh wrote: »

Hey that's just how I pvp! No wonder I'm so sucky at it lol

In his case it was stupidity, but in yours I'm going to say it was confidence and bravery

DHale · December 2015

Ganking is totally part of the game and glad for it. If you don't want to get ganked run magelight throw caltrops in passageways or around you, throw mines down on passage ways. Run and use revealing flare. Run and use defensive rune and keep your shields up. Stay in stealth and hold block when not moving. Don't carry a bunch of stones, wear better armor etc there are lots of things you could do. You choose not to and reap the consequences of doing so. Many ppl I have ganked jump off the horse and gave me a beating or had five fiends etc.... Many ppl that have ganked me donated their tel var stones then I sigil retreat over their body as I thank them. Seems like a learn to defend issue.

Eztrelle · December 2015

I will start by saying I am only interested personally in PVE. I am not very good at pvp and gave up trying in games years ago.

Having said that I really enjoy the feeling of excitement and indeed the sense of imminent danger I feel when I go try farming stones in the sewers. If I get ganked and robbed I am pissed but the feeling of elation I get if I avoid you nasty pvpers and I get to the bank with a nice bundle of stones is fantastic. It's a feeling worth playing the game for. So from my perspective the blend of PVE/PVP that ZOS has implemented in the sewers is great. Keep it up.

I have to say it's not unique to ESO. If any of you are old enough to remember Ultima Online. The same mechanics existed there. More recently EVE Online has the same.

I personally like the sense of danger and risk/reward aspects of this sort of area for the PVE community. Does it really matter that there is no risk to the pvper... No I think not. We both get something from it. He loves the killing and I love the immense feeling of satisfaction when I get away with it.

Ez

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

EDIT : One more thing : Get out of your head that once you're being ganked you're done. That's another advantage that you give to the ganker for free and you don't have to. If there's only one ganker on you : FIGHT. You have a fair chance of winning and your worst enemy is to not believe in that chance.

I like this comment. If u are hit from stealth, stand and fight! Stay calm, try to keep your resources up and apply pressure to your opponent. You might be surprised at how well you do!

Thanks ! (It was my comment actually ;-)

tinythinker wrote: »

A great ganker will kill you before you know they are there, with all the damage showing up in less than a second. A good ganker will stun you and kill you before you have a chance to break free. But that advice definitely works if you have really high health/damage mitigation or are attacked by an average to sub-par ganker

That's what I meant : not that many gankers are "great" and some players are very bad, so it's worth fighting or at least trying !
(Admittedly some ganking combos are OP and should be looked at by ZOS, it's not fair if you have zero chance).

PBpsy · December 2015

People still go to the IC...
How cute.

GreySix · December 2015

Pandorii wrote: »

Hi All:

I was wondering if there were others out there who found the whole practice of ganking shameful. Essentially, people will form small teams and go around sneaking up on people in the Imperial Sewers, stealing the tel var stones they have taken time to farm out (instead of farming it out themselves). For the most part, I've tolerated it, seeing it as an inevitable part of being in IC, a PvP area, but should it be so? I was thinking maybe gankers needed to be exposed. Would having a public ganker blacklist be something that could effectively control the problem? At the very least, maybe this would allow karma to take its toll, meaning ganking the gankers.

P.S. I apologize if I've broken some forum norm with this post. I'm sure there are others on this topic, but I am looking for constructive feedback (not slander).

PvP is a gathering and celebration of sociopaths.

phbell · December 2015

Wollust wrote: »

Ganking is a part of the PvP, even if you don't like it. You just have to accept it.

Agreed. I hate ganking, but I have to accept it. IMHO, the IC is the arena where PvP'ers go to beat up PvE'ers. As I primarily just play the PvE content with my guild mates I stay away from the IC. If I go in with a group it can be pretty fun, but alone? Forget it, I am just cannon fodder.

Xendyn · December 2015

GreySix wrote: »

PvP is a gathering and celebration of sociopaths.

Nice
and from someone who doesn't even play anymore.

Don't hurt yourself falling off that PVE High Horse.

LBxFinalDeath · December 2015

If the class I assume you're talking about that barely does well in PvE end-game in comparison to the other classes wasn't made almost SOLELY for ganking in PvP.

Yes, it would be shameful then.

Can't be shameful if an entire class is solely focused on it in my opinion.

eliisra · December 2015

I dont mind ganking, as in jumping unprepared players using element of surprise. It's part of PvP in any online game.

What I do mind is how other playstyles aren't as good, rewarding and supported by ESO game mechanics. Right now PvP is zerg or stealth gankblade. That's where you have all the advantages and the high success rate.

They need to stop buffing raw numbers and stealth gameplay every damn patch and promote normal solo, small scale and mid-scale PvP. I think that's what a majority of PvP'ers also wants. After all, I know a lot of people that only play gankblade because no other choice if you want to solo/duo.

Dymence · December 2015

Honor doesn't win wars.

ItsMeToo · December 2015

Dymence wrote: »

Honor doesn't win wars.

But QQing does. LOL

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

eliisra wrote: »

I dont mind ganking, as in jumping unprepared players using element of surprise. It's part of PvP in any online game.

What I do mind is how other playstyles aren't as good, rewarding and supported by ESO game mechanics. Right now PvP is zerg or stealth gankblade. That's where you have all the advantages and the high success rate.

They need to stop buffing raw numbers and stealth gameplay every damn patch and promote normal solo, small scale and mid-scale PvP. I think that's what a majority of PvP'ers also wants. After all, I know a lot of people that only play gankblade because no other choice if you want to solo/duo.

I have a NB specifically for PvP, and I know many others that do, it shouldn't be that way. Hopefully thieves guild or dark brotherhood bring stealth and ganking and stealth skills to other classes. Would give me a good chuckle at all the NBs running around.

Drakilian · December 2015

I don't just find ganking in IC disgusting (though it is, if you wait for someone to get distracted by mobs so that you can sneak up behind than and press the almighty wrecking button until they die, and then a few more times for good measure, you're a piece of ***) but it's equally as stupid in Cyrodill.

I mean, I get that when done well it can serve a vital function to a group (cutting off reinforcements), and that's fine, that's a tactical maneuver that helps your faction in a fight. But if you think that what you're doing makes you a good player or an awesome PvPer? Get the over yourself. There's nothing to mobbing and insta-killing a person who just wanted to get to a fight, ruining their game experience in the process.

Hawco10 · December 2015

Don't carry what you can't afford to lose, stay in a group, or with a decent sized mob, don't get "Buck fever" and decide to follow a ganker down a tunnel with some others and end up getting proxy det, or meteored etc.
Risk v reward in the end and it's all good with me. I do quite a bit of pvp then usually head to the sewers to get stuff I need. I could have ganked people here and there, but to be honest, I usually just leave them alone as they're there to do the same as me.Different story when a mob/zerg turns up of course

Gidorick · December 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Ganking is awesome.
If you don't wanna bother traveling in groups or dropin' from your horse/hiding every 25 seconds to refresh buffs and shields, you deserve to get sniped/oneshot'd.

True. Please see the first 3 seconds of this guys video of what NOT to do in IC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_DRwy5GF18

ugh that seems terrible. He was killed instantly. I guess dude should have been skulking about with shields up eh?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

Hawco10 wrote: »

Don't carry what you can't afford to lose, stay in a group, or with a decent sized mob, don't get "Buck fever" and decide to follow a ganker down a tunnel with some others and end up getting proxy det, or meteored etc.
Risk v reward in the end and it's all good with me. I do quite a bit of pvp then usually head to the sewers to get stuff I need. I could have ganked people here and there, but to be honest, I usually just leave them alone as they're there to do the same as me.Different story when a mob/zerg turns up of course

Wait, how is there ANY risk at all for a ganker in IC? As I can't see anything at all, except that they need to run back if they somehow die. Gankers have all the reward and no risk as it is right now, how is that in any way fair? Gankers should only get the same amount of TV's from a player they kill as they got themselves on them, and it's fair to make them PvE a bit to get some TV's to start with when they want to make PvE'rs PvP.

OmniDevil · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Wait, how is there ANY risk at all for a ganker in IC? As I can't see anything at all, except that they need to run back if they somehow die. Gankers have all the reward and no risk as it is right now, how is that in any way fair?

You're looking at it in a black and white way.

The risk is simply setting foot in IC and venturing outside of the comfort of your Alliance's safe zones. There is no right or wrong or fair about it. I've died more than enough times to gankers, more than I care to admit and mostly when I'm near death after pulling a group of PvE enemies....and that's OK!

It irritates me, I get frustrated, but I willing took the risk of loosing all my telvar the moment I started messing around in there.

Use the buddy system, stick with a group. If you're trying to solo in there without the intention of ganking yourself, you're doing it wrong. Besides, not everyone that "tries" to gank is as good or capable of doing so as the next person.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

OmniDevil wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Wait, how is there ANY risk at all for a ganker in IC? As I can't see anything at all, except that they need to run back if they somehow die. Gankers have all the reward and no risk as it is right now, how is that in any way fair?

You're looking at it in a black and white way.

The risk is simply setting foot in IC and venturing outside of the comfort of your Alliance's safe zones. There is no right or wrong or fair about it. I've died more than enough times to gankers, more than I care to admit and mostly when I'm near death after pulling a group of PvE enemies....and that's OK!

It irritates me, I get frustrated, but I willing took the risk of loosing all my telvar the moment I started messing around in there.

Use the buddy system, stick with a group. If you're trying to solo in there without the intention of ganking yourself, you're doing it wrong. Besides, not everyone that "tries" to gank is as good or capable of doing so as the next person.

Gankers should have to take the same risks in losing things though, as there's really no risk to speak of for a ganker right now in IC, all they got to do is to stealth right through everything and wait around, then they can kill of someone with a thousand or more TV's and then just stealth back or die spawn to a mob without having anything to lose, just all to win. And it's not really anywhere near balanced like that.

JD2013 · December 2015

Gitgud?

Ganking is just sadly a part of MMO PVP. You can either let it bother you, or realise that there's far worse things than your virtual character getting killed in a virtual world whilst losing virtual currency that doesn't actually buy anything good.

That being said, can't wait to try out my new NB I'm rolling in PVP *grins evilly*

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

Gitgud?

Ganking is just sadly a part of MMO PVP. You can either let it bother you, or realise that there's far worse things than your virtual character getting killed in a virtual world whilst losing virtual currency that doesn't actually buy anything good.

That being said, can't wait to try out my new NB I'm rolling in PVP *grins evilly*

I don't care about losing the TV's myself, but when the gankers got all the rewards on their side and no risk, then that's a problem. If they want to farm TV's that way they should put in the same amount of risk by having TV's on them, otherwise it's just a very one-sided reward system. Should mention also that I kill more gankers than I get killed by them, but it's just bad mechanics when I kill the ganker and they got nothing on them while if I die they get a ton of stones. As you PvPers love speaking on how you love risk vs reward, you sure don't want to have to take any risks while ganking. Hypocrisy much?

OmniDevil · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Gankers should have to take the same risks in losing things though, as there's really no risk to speak of for a ganker right now in IC, all they got to do is to stealth right through everything and wait around, then they can kill of someone with a thousand or more TV's and then just stealth back or die spawn to a mob without having anything to lose, just all to win.

What's preventing you from doing the same thing? Nothing except yourself.

There is risk for them. They take the same risks as everyone else. When they kill someone, they have just as much opportunity to expect retaliation as the next person. Stealth doesn't always work and Cloak can still be very buggy in there.

You assume you only ever get ganked by a Nightblade who has the ability to simply snipe and cloak away, all while skipping along to the smurf theme song. That's not the case. I constantly gank with my Magiplar. Is it as effective as a Nightblade that can cloak or a Sorcerer that can Streak away? No, but I get the job done.

Don't get me wrong. PvP isn't my strong point nor do I care to enjoy participating in it as much as the next person, however. If you're in a PvP zone and don't expect PvP, you should stop going there as you'll find yourself rudely disappointed.

By the way, PvP stands for Player Versus Player. Ganking is part of that and has been in every MMO to date. Deal with it (sorry, I believe in tough love).

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

OmniDevil wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Gankers should have to take the same risks in losing things though, as there's really no risk to speak of for a ganker right now in IC, all they got to do is to stealth right through everything and wait around, then they can kill of someone with a thousand or more TV's and then just stealth back or die spawn to a mob without having anything to lose, just all to win.

What's preventing you from doing the same thing? Nothing except yourself.

There is risk for them. They take the same risks as everyone else. When they kill someone, they have just as much opportunity to expect retaliation as the next person. Stealth doesn't always work and Cloak can still be very buggy in there.

You assume you only ever get ganked by a Nightblade who has the ability to simply snipe and cloak away, all while skipping along to the smurf theme song. That's not the case. I constantly gank with my Magiplar. Is it as effective as a Nightblade that can cloak or a Sorcerer that can Streak away? No, but I get the job done.

Don't get me wrong. PvP isn't my strong point nor do I care to enjoy participating in it as much as the next person, however. If you're in a PvP zone and don't expect PvP, you should stop going there as you'll find yourself rudely disappointed.

By the way, PvP stands for Player Versus Player. Ganking is part of that and has been in every MMO to date. Deal with it (sorry, I believe in tough love).

I know that I might have to defend myself, but I do believe in that any person that kills someone else should have to have TV's on them to get them from the other person, that's just a fair, balanced mechanic.

Rylana · December 2015

Daraugh wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Ganking is awesome.
If you don't wanna bother traveling in groups or dropin' from your horse/hiding every 25 seconds to refresh buffs and shields, you deserve to get sniped/oneshot'd.

True. Please see the first 3 seconds of this guys video of what NOT to do in IC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_DRwy5GF18

Hey that's just how I pvp! No wonder I'm so sucky at it lol

To be fair, that guy was a victim of a camo hunter double-proc exploiter. So while he did err riding his horse, its a bad example.

Hope499 · December 2015

Ganking is part of PvP.

There are scumbags in video games, just like the real world (probably more in video games)

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

I'll just make an example for how the system is imbalanced atm, I was out farming the sewers, had 500+ stones on me, 2 DC tried to gank me, I fought back and killed both of them, and I got 0 TV's from it, now if those two had killed me they'd gotten 200+ stones each. I mean, don't I deserve a reward for killing them instead of only having the risk of losing my own TV's?

OmniDevil · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'll just make an example for how the system is imbalanced atm, I was out farming the sewers, had 500+ stones on me, 2 DC tried to gank me, I fought back and killed both of them, and I got 0 TV's from it, now if those two had killed me they'd gotten 200+ stones each. I mean, don't I deserve a reward for killing them instead of only having the risk of losing my own TV's?

You got AP and the satisfaction that you successfully defended yourself, you kept your stones and won a 1v2 battle. What more do you want? You can't get stones if there are no stones to be had. I get this idea of "balance" you keep throwing around, but that isn't balance. You want your cake and want to eat it to, but so does every other glutton. There are always two sides to one coin and neither will be alike.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

OmniDevil wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'll just make an example for how the system is imbalanced atm, I was out farming the sewers, had 500+ stones on me, 2 DC tried to gank me, I fought back and killed both of them, and I got 0 TV's from it, now if those two had killed me they'd gotten 200+ stones each. I mean, don't I deserve a reward for killing them instead of only having the risk of losing my own TV's?

You got AP and the satisfaction that you successfully defended yourself, you kept your stones and won a 1v2 battle. What more do you want? You can't get stones if there are no stones to be had. I get this idea of "balance" you keep throwing around, but that isn't balance. You want your cake and want to eat it to, but so does every other glutton. There are always two sides to one coin and neither will be alike.

Well, if they did kill me, they'd get AP, the satisfaction from having killed me AND gotten my TV's, so I as the defender can't have my cake and eat it too, as you say. As you seem to have forgotten that the enemies get AP and most likely more satisfaction from it, not to mention the TV's I had.

OmniDevil · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, if they did kill me, they'd get AP, the satisfaction from having killed me AND gotten my TV's, so I as the defender can't have my cake and eat it too, as you say. As you seem to have forgotten that the enemies get AP and most likely more satisfaction from it, not to mention the TV's I had.

No, I didn't forget anything. I simply don't take a virtual world as seriously as you do. At this point, we'll agree to disagree.

Pandorii · December 2015

Yall, this has been an incredible discussion! I really love the idea of having gankers only be able to steal as many stones as they have on them! It seems like a clever solution to a terrible problem.

On another note, I just wanted to clarify that I consider 'ganking' to be different from player-versus-player. Ganking implies unfairness. Typically a PvE or low level player is attacked by a small team in stealth when their resources are low, rendering them defenseless and taking their hard earned stones. Stones the gankers are too lazy to farm for themselves, and if they aren't too lazy, they SHOULD farm themselves rather than taking from someone else. Maybe another problem is that attacks exist in this game that can one or two-shot a weaker/low-leveled player, players who have just as much right to enjoy the IC DLC as gankers with almost max champion points. What were the developers thinking?

However, if we are not likely to see a structural change in IC, we shouldn't give up doing something as a player base. I firmly believe, even after reading everyone's responses, that ganking shouldn't be accepted as an inevitable part of running in IC, but a practice used by scumbag players that should be punished in some way. Let's gank the gankers!

If I accidentally killed someone that had 4000 tel var, I would contact them and try to give them back through items from the store of equal value. What kind of heartless person would keep someone else's stuff? O.O Is that such an absurd idea?