Am I the only one that finds ganking shameful?

ItsMeToo · December 2015

I want the LOL button back.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Asherons_Call wrote: »

You are not the only one. Unwritten rules are going by the wayside where treating others how you yourself would like to be treated are becoming a thing of the past

I used to think like this ^^^

Kova wrote: »

Minesweeper would be pretty boring if there were no mines.

... but now I think like this ^^^

I love PvE but frankly after having run any content 100 times, you know the mobs' routines by heart and start behaving like a robot yourself. Gankers provide the thrill of the unexpected. (Actually any kind of PvP does but since I don't like the keep fights in overland Cyro...)

Pandorii wrote: »

For all the people who admitted to being gankers on the thread, maybe yall can offer us gankees some tips for staying alive.

Immovability pots.
I play a sorc. Rule number one : shields up at all times. Rule number two : check area before engaging mobs. Rule number three : have immovability pots and ulti ready, and save stamina (= don't waste them while fighting mobs).
If I get ganked, usually the ganker cannot one-shoot me because of the shields. I break free from the original stun, drink my pot. That gives me enough time to throw some DPS myself. By then, the "surprise bonus" of the ganker is gone and we're in a more or less even 1v1 situation.
(If there are 2 gankers the strategy is the same except that the goal is to flee, not to fight ;-) )
(If there are more than 2 gankers there's nothing you can do, just die, it's not your fault. Don't fight : it kinda frustrates gankers when the target doesn't react at all).

EDIT : One more thing : Get out of your head that once you're being ganked you're done. That's another advantage that you give to the ganker for free and you don't have to. If there's only one ganker on you : FIGHT. You have a fair chance of winning and your worst enemy is to not believe in that chance.

.

TheShadowScout · December 2015

I dislike the ganky way of PvP.
...
...and my main is a Nightblade... so when it comes to PvP, my choices are either to use my bow and just add arrows to a general melee hoping for a nice killshot, or when there is no general melee going on, get daggerhappy and gank 'em. Which sometimes works, sometimes not, and if I can't gank them, I have not much of a chance.
And I dislike that.

Worse is the getting ganked out of nowhere, especially when fighting some NPC.

Makes me wish they would cut all benefits for killing someone if people did that.

And I even more wish there would be incentives not to gank... some sort of "challenge mode" (not in "challenge to a duel" but as in "challenge the stranger you just spotted") Yell "Halt! Who goes there?" or "Die, Covenant Skum" first, forfeiting your "surprise attack" bonus, and get a huge increase in AP for the fight, maybe? I'd love that sort of thing, sadly, its not bloody likely to come to PvP-land, ever...

Heindrich · December 2015

I don't gank (much) I will staunchly defend my right to gank and to be ganked!

It's a PvP zone! Stop demanding it turn into a PvE carebear farming paradise! Sorry but it's absurd the demands some people make. It baffles me, honestly baffles me.

Tryxus · December 2015

Ganking does get boring after a while. Pretty sure it's the same for other NB out there as well.

In any case, ganking is a strategy. A cheap one, but a strategy nonetheless.

"This is war, the honorable ones are usually the first ones to die.

(at least, that's how I think the quote went

)

Lysette · December 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Ganking in groups is shameful. If yoh have suprise and all the sneak attack benefits on your side you shouldnt need number advantage as well.

That is just what Sun Tzu is promoting in "the art of war" - don't fight, if you have not already won it. They just make sure instead to take a risk, you cant blame them for doing that.

Tavore1138 · December 2015

Nothing shameful about ganking in a war zone, plenty of gankers picking off enemy players in Cyrodiil proper as players ride around or sweeping around the edges of battles thinning out the enemy herd. It can be fun and it can be dangerous too because if you don't kill your opponent fast you can find yourself facing one or more players with mostly full resources. It can be annoying as hell when it happens to you but those are the breaks in a PvP zone.

The same is true in IC - it is clear what it is designed for and if you enter expecting combat to be formally announced you are going to be disappointed.

But somehow IC just feels more like a crime simulator than a war zone to me and I think that is what ZOS intended - people say this was a PvP DLC but ZOS specifically marketed it as PvP in a PvE zone.

So it was always going to drag in PvE players who wanted to source high level materials to make sets, waters for potions and rune for enchants... and those who just wanted to do the solo quest line.

ZOS planned it that way.

ZOS also chose not to implement the originally announced PvP objectives and district control mechanics which would have made it feel more like 'proper' PvP that PvP guilds could have got into.

The zone looks great and there is some brief pleasure to be had sneaking through the sewers for enemies to stab but too many times you end up killing some poor PvE player who is just looking to run a quest or get some drops/stones and then I feel bad.

So overall it just doesn't feel like part of ESO, more like a fantasy expansion for GTA

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It's annoying when i turn around and kill my would be gankers and get nothing for it. If your going to go and take peoples stones you need to have some risk to yourself, it's one of the reason people are hating on nb's because apart from the fact IC is made for nb's they literally go to enemy sewers cloak through mobs gank and leave.

If they die then nothing they just go and respawn.

That's because many of them aren't actually there for, and don't care about TVs. They just want to find a group of people and kill them. Having a TV stone restriction to get into part of the PVP area is ridiculous because they'd basically have to scout the districts for ages and hope THEY don't get ganked so they'd have to start all over again, or do PVE and farm enough mobs for 200 TVs.
That idea won't go down too well, I can assure you.

Well, add a restriction to how many stones they can get then, let's say that if you as the ganker got 100 TV's on you, if you kill someone the most you can get from someone is 100 TV's. That'd add the risk vs reward instead of just the ganker having all to win and nothing to lose every single time.

It's just balancing 101, really, lol.

kevlarto_ESO · December 2015

Me and my small group off friends spend a lot of time being the anti-ganker, we hunt them down when they are in the area.

I have pvp'ed in many games over many years, and early on I classified gankers or pk'ers as a cowardice type of game play. it sounds nice to move in the shadows and strike your enemy, taking advantage of opportunities, while avoiding as much direct confrontation as possible, if that is what you like to do that's ok it is part of pvp game play, but there are players out there looking for the ganker to make sure they have a bad day.

DRXHarbinger · December 2015

If you can't handle my overload then keep out or use invsi pots

tinythinker · December 2015

It's a PvP-enabled zone. Hence:

- You aren't safe.
- You are fair game.
- Unless you are a great 1vX PvPer, you take great risk running around out of stealth on your own.

Accept that or avoid Cyrodiil/Imperial City districts and sewers.

Solutions? Try one or more of the following:

- learn basic PvP fighting, evasion, scouting, and defensive tactics and wear appropriate gear/slot appropriate skills and keep at least a few immoveable and invisibility detection potions on hand.
- go to IC with others, preferably those who have experience with the last suggestion, so that caltrops or someone with Radiant Magelight can expose would be gankers. Having a skilled ganker with you is immensely helpful as a defense, too. Ask gankers to defend your group -- could be an economic system waiting to happen here. More experienced PvPers leading tours of IC. Or invite the gankers from your guild. Offer punch and pie.
- think like a ganker and act accordingly. If entering a new area be in stealth. If going around a corner be ready and check for gankers. Save your ultimates and expect to be attacked while fighting NPCs. If one or two people seem OK popping up and hitting your big group don't chase them, get to a choke point and use AoEs to keep them at bay.

Even the best PvPers and most experienced gankers take a risk, which you can see in their videos. The smarter and better prepared their potential targets, the less attractive those targets are to many gankers. The greater the number of well prepared targets, the harder ganking becomes. The best gankers will see it as a challenge, so the risk will never go away, but the less skilled ones with the cheap set up of broken skills who melt at the slightest resistance will get tired of being exposed and slaughtered more often.

Lysette · December 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Me and my small group off friends spend a lot of time being the anti-ganker, we hunt them down when they are in the area.

I have pvp'ed in many games over many years, and early on I classified gankers or pk'ers as a cowardice type of game play. it sounds nice to move in the shadows and strike your enemy, taking advantage of opportunities, while avoiding as much direct confrontation as possible, if that is what you like to do that's ok it is part of pvp game play, but there are players out there looking for the ganker to make sure they have a bad day.

I like your thinking with this - there is always a bigger fish, as they say .-)

Egonieser · December 2015

Can't blame people when the game is Intended™ that way. Blame zos for thinking that if you crouch down - you magically become invisible. Wish I could do that IRL.
When I first started ESO and few months in, I didn't even know it made me outright invisible, just thought it made me harder to see or like transparent, but still visible. Even when sneaking I was hiding behind trees and rocks.
But then again, it's ZoS who intended for it to be this way, you can't blame the people for playing it as Intended™

Daraugh · December 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Ganking is awesome.
If you don't wanna bother traveling in groups or dropin' from your horse/hiding every 25 seconds to refresh buffs and shields, you deserve to get sniped/oneshot'd.

True. Please see the first 3 seconds of this guys video of what NOT to do in IC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_DRwy5GF18

Hey that's just how I pvp! No wonder I'm so sucky at it lol

Prabooo · December 2015

No it is not. Get over it.

tennant94 · December 2015

The best solution is to improve you combat skills so you can fight off the gankers.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · December 2015

The only 'ganking' that is in poor taste is at entry/exit points, you know going into a delve or whatever; as well as camping quest pick up/drop offs (not around the town the actual npc). I just really can't wrap my head around those types of ganking.

I really miss in 1.4-1.5ish riding between keep battles trying to avoid what some would call gankers (to me just basic pvpers) looking to cut routes to battles. As a healer I'd be toast if caught alone but it was good fun. These encounters seem less and less.

Keep_Door · December 2015

haha i gank for the sake of ganking. i dont even care about stones i just think its fun and part of the game.

im a truly horrible person but i dont care

robkrush · December 2015

Ganking?

You mean attacking with the element of suprise.

A smart thing to do in a hostile situation.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

robkrush wrote: »

Ganking?

You mean attacking with the element of suprise.

A smart thing to do in a hostile situation.

Smart thing, yes. But you shouldn't be able to use it to have everything to win and nothing to lose by ganking in the sewers, that's what I got a problem with. Gankers need to have the same or at least similar amount of risk when trying to gank someone. As it is right now they can gank without having to worry about anything and can still earn a ton of TV's, there should be a system that you can only get as many stones as you got on you at the moment by killing another player. If you want to get high reward ganks, you should have to have an equally big risk.

RedTalon · December 2015

See ganking is fun for me has a nightblade know the hiding spot, while I typically don't gank I know where the gankers hide and sometimes just stroll by those places after I just got done dumping all my stones away.

Now something I have noticed with gankers they will chease you even through mobs, and have lead a few to their deaths once I get a good train going cause hop off my horse let them and the mobs come close then pop my shealth, then sometimes hear nasty says before they kick it.

BalticBlues · December 2015

If ZOS would not FORCE pve players into the IC ganking zone,
because only there they can get TV stones for V16 runes,
then the asocial ganker pack would have to play with themselves...

To sell the IC DLC, ZOS sacrifices PVE players for the benefit of PVP gankers.
I loathe this business model of ZOS even more than the gankers,
who are cowardly killing pve players from stealth with no risk at all,
when players are weak during IC pve fights or opening a IC chest.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

If ZOS would not FORCE pve players into the IC ganking zone,
because only there they can get TV stones for V16 runes,

Nothing forces you into IC. You can buy VR16 runes in guild stores no problem. Or from guildies/friends who enjoy IC.

Cherryblossom · December 2015

I don't, it's a risk you take in PVP.

I don't gank by the way, but I don't mind those that do.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

As it is right now they can gank without having to worry about anything and can still earn a ton of TV's, there should be a system that you can only get as many stones as you got on you at the moment by killing another player. If you want to get high reward ganks, you should have to have an equally big risk.

In order to take "zero risk" a ganker should bank his stones after each kill - just like you could bank yours after each mob pack you kill.
And I'm not sure gankers make less "stones per hour" than mob grinders because there are far more mobs than gankable players !
And every ganker is also a potential gankee to another ganker.

I think your vision of gankers taking no risks is quite wrong.

And even though I quite fancy your idea of "looting limited to amount of stones carried" I don't think it would be fair to PvP players (aka "gankers"), because it would mean that you can only earn TV stones via PVEing first... It would be strange to limit access to a currency to PvP players via PvP methods in a PvP zone.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

The PvP design is sadly set up to allow and to some extent encourage this type of behavior.

The game doesn't set up PvP for competitive battle but instead, random zergs and ganking as a means to win or progress. With the introduction of the Tel Var stones, this by itself further shows that the devs mindset is not to create a competitive and fun PvP opportunity.

Other than keeps falling, PvP is of no interest to me but we all at some point are forced into it if we plan on either completing all of PvE content or crafting, etc. Its not a terrible design but it qualifies as a bad design mixed with the mega server limitations that add less opportunity for server specific experiences.

Celas_Dranacea · December 2015

For each alliance there is a circular farming route u can run in relative safety near your home base in the sewers. Sometimes there are a lot of enemy players around in which case u will need to start banking your stones after running every circuit.

I love ganking the sewers - so satisfying picking off a player and escaping detection from 10+ people who come looking for me.

That said I know how you feel and sometimes I play my role a a gank-hunter, helping to keep my factions side of the sewers clear

Pandorii wrote: »

EDIT : One more thing : Get out of your head that once you're being ganked you're done. That's another advantage that you give to the ganker for free and you don't have to. If there's only one ganker on you : FIGHT. You have a fair chance of winning and your worst enemy is to not believe in that chance.

I like this comment. If u are hit from stealth, stand and fight! Stay calm, try to keep your resources up and apply pressure to your opponent. You might be surprised at how well you do!

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

As it is right now they can gank without having to worry about anything and can still earn a ton of TV's, there should be a system that you can only get as many stones as you got on you at the moment by killing another player. If you want to get high reward ganks, you should have to have an equally big risk.

In order to take "zero risk" a ganker should bank his stones after each kill - just like you could bank yours after each mob pack you kill.
And I'm not sure gankers make more "stones per hour" than mob grinders because there are far more mobs than gankable players !
And every ganker is also a potential gankee to another ganker.

I think your vision of gankers taking no risks is quite wrong.

And even though I quite fancy your idea of "looting limited to amount of stones carried" I don't think it would be fair to PvP players (aka "gankers"), because it would mean that you can only earn TV stones via PVEing first... It would be strange to limit access to a currency to PvP players via PvP methods in a PvP zone.

Well, they'd only really have to kill for a little while, then they could always get the rest from killing other people, and it really is a more fair system overall, concidering that both people will have to have the same amount to lose then, as right now it's very one-sided, yes if a pvper get killed while trying to gank, they have to run back, same with the PvE'r, but the difference is in the amount they can lose when dying.

Dying to a mob makes you lose what, 10-20% while dying to a player makes you lose 80%, and the ones that gank get a big advantage that way, as all they need to do is wait for the other person to be fighting and then gank them, and if they get killed, they've lost nothing 90% of the time, while the other person loses almost everything almost every time. Not really a fair system atm, imo.

Besides, making a ganker have to PvE a little bit is fair if a PvE'r have to endure some PvP, right?

tinythinker · December 2015

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

EDIT : One more thing : Get out of your head that once you're being ganked you're done. That's another advantage that you give to the ganker for free and you don't have to. If there's only one ganker on you : FIGHT. You have a fair chance of winning and your worst enemy is to not believe in that chance.

I like this comment. If u are hit from stealth, stand and fight! Stay calm, try to keep your resources up and apply pressure to your opponent. You might be surprised at how well you do!

A great ganker will kill you before you know they are there, with all the damage showing up in less than a second. A good ganker will stun you and kill you before you have a chance to break free. But that advice definitely works if you have really high health/damage mitigation or are attacked by an average to sub-par ganker

OmniDevil · December 2015

I hate being ganked, but only because its tiresome making my way back to where I was when the killing happened. Otherwise, this is like complaining about PvP on a PvP server.

Don't like being ganked, don't visit those zones.

Or...

Use the buddy system!