Why is grinding considered fun??

Bigevilpeter · December 2015

Grinding is basically doing something basic and boring over and over till you get what you want.

While I think grinding for gear is good, most other forms of grinding are really boring.

And if you think removing some grinding will make the game bad, then the game wasn't really good in general.

Grindings that I think are Awful:
1- Crafting levels and traits
2- Horse training( grinding in a way)
3- Alliance
4- Veteran ranks
5- Lorebooks( the concept is ok it just takes waay too many books to get levels)

Grinding that I think is essentail:
1- Gear and mats
2- champion points
3- level 1-50
4- Skyshards

PBpsy · December 2015

"Why is grinding considered fun??"

It is? XP grinding is done to avoid the even more boring quest grind not because of fun.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

While I think grinding for gear is good.

You are wrong.

Oldmanlawlor · December 2015

Hi, I'm Mairc. And I have an addiction to chest farming.

Lysette · December 2015

it really depends on how you play the game - to me that is not a big deal, because I am not into leveling fast and I do as well not need the best gear possible to enjoy this game. I am not having a job in ESO, I play it after my leisure. So if I am in the mood for it, I run some errands like gathering mats, refine them, build a couple of things, research a little, brew some potions and enchant a few items, which I have not used that often and which i want to try out. I might dye them afterwards.

This is all not a grind to me - I just run those errands, when I am in the mood or as a starting routine when I login - like checking the research of traits and setting up new ones. Looking for the writs of the day, craft that stuff and deliver it to get my rewards. So my day started with this, now it is time to have some fun and I check my quest list or my map and see what I have not explored yet or what needs attention - where is that grinding?- It is just starting my day in ESO played this way.

So what i suggest to you is - take it easy, do not convert ESO into a second job, try to relax and run those errands for a little while when you are in the mood for it. Don't force yourself to do it, if you are not in the mood - you are here to have fun.

Tandor · December 2015

If you're having fun then it isn't grinding.

WhatDoesItMatter · December 2015

Lysette wrote: »

it really depends on how you play the game - to me that is not a big deal, because I am not into leveling fast and I do as well not need the best gear possible to enjoy this game. I am not having a job in ESO, I play it after my leisure. So if I am in the mood for it, I run some errands like gathering mats, refine them, build a couple of things, research a little, brew some potions and enchant a few items, which I have not used that often and which i want to try out. I might dye them afterwards.

This is all not a grind to me - I just run those errands, when I am in the mood or as a starting routine when I login - like checking the research of traits and setting up new ones. Looking for the writs of the day, craft that stuff and deliver it to get my rewards. So my day started with this, now it is time to have some fun and I check my quest list or my map and see what I have not explored yet or what needs attention - where is that grinding?- It is just starting my day in ESO played this way.

So what i suggest to you is - take it easy, do not convert ESO into a second job, try to relax and run those errands for a little while when you are in the mood for it. Don't force yourself to do it, if you are not in the mood - you are here to have fun.

Totally agree with this. If anyone is finding the grind boring then they should consider changing their gaming style. I also just do what I feel like, only collect mats when I happen upon them, only craft when my bags get full and I need to return to town anyway, try to do the quests in some kind of order so that they mean something to me and I pay attention to the story because its actually one of the best story-driven MMO I've played so far.

Its not the quickest way to level up by any means, but then I'd say that anyone whos goal it is to level up as quickly as possible and rush through the game is likely to miss the fun of it and it will just feel like a grind fest.

I'm level 21 and still haven't even bought a horse yet.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Totally agree with @Lysette , BUT... the problems start when you've levelled a character to VR16, know it from A-Z and have beaten nearly all the content you wanted to beat with it.
Now you're curious about other playstyles that you have witnessed and heard of and discussed with your friends and guildies ingame. So you start an alt of a different class and/or a different role / build. That's where the "grinding" problems start, because the "replayability" of many parts of the game is quite poor, and still many steps are simply compulsory on your way to VR16.
Luckily the CP system and removal of veteran ranks will facilitate things a bit (but some tedious compulsory grinds will still be present, like skyshards, lorebooks, and most of all, alliance war skill line).

Kammakazi · December 2015

I absolutely love grinding because of the CP

Lysette · December 2015

and there is the problem in your thinking about how to play the game - the goal is not VR16 - the way to it is the goal. This is what you should enjoy, experience the world and live in it. Make some new friends, help newbies maybe, do something social instead to grind all day long. This would be trying something different then - because you might not have done that yet, do you?-

Lokov · December 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

"Why is grinding considered fun??"

It is? XP grinding is done to avoid the even more boring quest grind not because of fun.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

While I think grinding for gear is good.

You are wrong.

The grinding is a way to occupy players when there is no content. Not more or less. Even the champion system was thought up due to the lack of content. Game is filled, but is very weak. Besides there are a lot of technical problems. Such as lags on the Cyrodiil in primetime.

JamieAubrey · December 2015

I'm grinding 4 new alts atm, Netflix helps with the grind

I'm that type of person that needs to create a whole new character instead of repsecing one of my VR16

wafcatb14_ESO · December 2015

My first MMO was Everquest back in 1999, in that game very few classes could solo past lvl 20 effectively, mobs were not leashed, and didn`t lose aggro, they chased you until they killed you, or you zoned or you killed them,

you didn`t hit a little re-spawn button and reappear with all your gear, at a safe location. nope you spawned naked with no equipment, and you had to run back naked to your corpse to get you gear, while mobs chased you if you got agro on corpse run or someone rezed you,

Most people formed groups, to grind mobs at rare loot locations as there was an experience bonus for being in a group, and if you couldn`t solo well that was the fasest way to get exp, while having the chance at getting a rare drop, worth a lot of money.

More importantly, interacting in game with other players in your group was actually fun and more of a social exp, sure you were grinding mobs for Exp, while hoping for some rare loot, but it didn`t really feel like it because most in the group were talking with each other to pass the time.

Even now i`d rather grind mobs with friends, guildies or grouped with total strangers, than grind Quests for some useless item i`ll just decon or sell to a merchant.

Lysette · December 2015

@wafcatb14_ESO this is exactly what I meant - there the way was the goal, you did something social together with others and so it became kind of an event instead of a grind. It is all about how to play the game, which makes it a grind or a fun experience. If people burn through the content to achieve VR16 and then is end of pre-made content and the open world concept kicks in, where you vets must create your own content in Cyrrodil and not wait for others to create it for you. Here again it counts, what you make out of it - just behaving like a consumer and burn through content in a rush is bad - you are supposed to write history in Cyrrodil, so why are you not doing this but complain about lack of content?- It is your duty to create content and history in an open world setting - and Cyrrodil is this place to create this content and make history.

Reco · December 2015

What I like about grind is the speed at which I level up a skill or char. Compared to the total boredom of quests (usually redoing them).

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Lysette wrote: »

and there is the problem in your thinking about how to play the game - the goal is not VR16 - the way to it is the goal. This is what you should enjoy, experience the world and live in it. Make some new friends, help newbies maybe, do something social instead to grind all day long. This would be trying something different then - because you might not have done that yet, do you?-

I've done all of that, believe me - and still do it ;-)
You misunderstood me : I did not reroll a new class for lack of things to do, I rerolled a new class to experience a new gameplay. And that's where I experienced the poor replayability of the levelling/questing part. It's a wonderful journey the first time, far less the 2nd time (can't even imagine a third time).
Problem is that many of the things I like to do don't bring XP (farming / trading / crafting / fishing / RPing...) and I want to reach VR16 because that's where you can play in groups with your friends - because everything before VR16 dungeons isn't group play, it's a walk in the park on a sunday afternoon).

Sevalaricgirl · December 2015

I don't hate veteran leveling. I hate the lack of veteran content that will get you to v16. My bosmer does not belong in the other alliances and I'm having problems justifying it in my head. I guess I just make Khajiit and Imperials because they are the only ones I can justify wandering around the other alliances. So I'm thinking I need to remake my Breton sorc because I know I'm going to run into the same problems. I'm a writer. If I can't justify a character in a different alliance, I can't level there. I know I'm not the only one. Not to mention that the writers did not give you a good reason for being in the other alliances.

You all of a sudden don't have a soul again and fall into the water...et al

Honestly for anyone who cares at all about the story, it doesn't work.

Artjuh90 · December 2015

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I don't hate veteran leveling. I hate the lack of veteran content that will get you to v16. My bosmer does not belong in the other alliances and I'm having problems justifying it in my head. I guess I just make Khajiit and Imperials because they are the only ones I can justify wandering around the other alliances. So I'm thinking I need to remake my Breton sorc because I know I'm going to run into the same problems. I'm a writer. If I can't justify a character in a different alliance, I can't level there. I know I'm not the only one. Not to mention that the writers did not give you a good reason for being in the other alliances.
You all of a sudden don't have a soul again and fall into the water...et al
Honestly for anyone who cares at all about the story, it doesn't work.

well although it doesn't really matter which race you are in which alliance cause that can make sense you have altmer all over the world same with nords and orcs. it is how you get into cadwell's and what you have to do there. in every story of either AD, EP or DC you will have to fight the other 2 factions. which don't make sense if you are EP and you are helping the aldemeri defeat the EP troops on the coast of the dominion. don't they know treason in the elder scrolls? worst part is in that same quest you can actually get someone killed for helping the EP..........

Volkodav · December 2015

Who said it was fun?? Thwack em!

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

My first MMO was Everquest back in 1999, in that game very few classes could solo past lvl 20 effectively, mobs were not leashed, and didn`t lose aggro, they chased you until they killed you, or you zoned or you killed them,

you didn`t hit a little re-spawn button and reappear with all your gear, at a safe location. nope you spawned naked with no equipment, and you had to run back naked to your corpse to get you gear, while mobs chased you if you got agro on corpse run or someone rezed you,

Most people formed groups, to grind mobs at rare loot locations as there was an experience bonus for being in a group, and if you couldn`t solo well that was the fasest way to get exp, while having the chance at getting a rare drop, worth a lot of money.

More importantly, interacting in game with other players in your group was actually fun and more of a social exp, sure you were grinding mobs for Exp, while hoping for some rare loot, but it didn`t really feel like it because most in the group were talking with each other to pass the time.

Even now i`d rather grind mobs with friends, guildies or grouped with total strangers, than grind Quests for some useless item i`ll just decon or sell to a merchant.

I will never forget my experiences in that game, it was very unforgiving. So much so that PvE actually made you nervous because the mobs your level or higher would wreck you. I remember thinking how you could actually lose your corpse and not be able to retrieve it. You would have to pay a necromancer gold to summon your corpse back to get your gear if it got really bad.

I played a bard and remember soloing in the planes of power. I think Bards and necromancers were about the only classes to solo effectively. I do miss the grind at times, but wouldn't want to go back to such an extreme as EQ and waiting on "camps". Good times though, for sure. I created some legendary trains to the zone.

crowfl56 · December 2015

Lots of grind's are just exploit's, not all just some.

The people that use a exploit doesn't belong in any game.

Everytime a new game comes online, there are those that just want to find everyway possible to get an advantage in game.

Be it getting xp faster than normal, or getting items, mats, armor, ect ect.

Thus, you have it in a nut shell.

I say ban the exploiter's, and they are few, no one will miss them

...

leepalmer95 · December 2015

crowfl56 wrote: »

Lots of grind's are just exploit's, not all just some.

The people that use a exploit doesn't belong in any game.

Everytime a new game comes online, there are those that just want to find everyway possible to get an advantage in game.

Be it getting xp faster than normal, or getting items, mats, armor, ect ect.

Thus, you have it in a nut shell.

I say ban the exploiter's, and they are few, no one will miss them ...

Grinding is an exploit now?

newtinmpls · December 2015

Dunno

If I like it, then automatically it's not grinding

TheShadowScout · December 2015

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Grinding is basically doing something basic and boring over and over till you get what you want.

While I think grinding for gear is good, most other forms of grinding are really boring.

Eh. I really cannot stand mindless repetetive actions, so I don't grind when I can help it.

- I get my gear crafting levels through deconstructing, which generally means I don't hit 50 there until after completing cadwells. The consumables crafting at least I got with my self-usage craftings, one needs those food buffs in cyrodil after all... Writs... I tend to do sparingly, though I might have to change that for motiv page hunt someday. Maybe. Or just forget that motiv. Not sure yet.
- Horse training is a chore, but at least I can do it "en passant" with my questing - but that means that those characters I play a lot have their horse maxed, and the others... are still working on it. But I'll get there in time.
Alliance rank... it the worst, since my pvPness is at best mediocre... and to earn it fast one would need to do a lot of enemy players... wish there were more AP gains in cyrodil, expecially for the ones like me who seldom win, yet still come and try.
- Lorebooks are fun, fun, fun! I never search for them, I just pick them up as I go along, and usually max mages guild in early cadwells gold. I suppose if I did pot more effort into it I could get there sooner, but... I am playing the game to have fun, not to win a race to the end.
- Gear and mats come en passant as well, I just play my game, and be happy about what comes my way. Sure, I'd lurve more and better options to get gear... but I get by regardless. Just a matter of time, I can be patient.
- Champion points - slow and steady got me to my current 415 c-points, and I still make an average of one or two a day, depending on how much I play. Grinding them would be taking the whole fun out of getting them IMO, so i don't, I just quest and let them come at a leisurely pace.
- Levels - also come durning normal play, I just do all the quests, yeah, for the eight time, and even though it does get a bit tenious when you remember every detail from last time, it still is better then spending my time mindlessly slaughtering mobs in some cave. Also, skill points through quest rewards, skyshards, and all the other stuff you stumble over while questing, like books or treasure chests.
- Skyshards come en passant following all the quests, and one advantage of repeating all the questings is remembering where to look for most of them. Though I had a blast first time around figuring out where the missed ones were from the cryptic hints in the journal...

Some possible grinding you forgot to mention:
-Legerdemain... and I have to admit, I love exploring and looking for treasure chests! It may be somewhat repetetive, but I find the fun at following an idea where one could be hidden and finding yourself right too much fun! Of course, legerdemain doesn't rely on chest openings alone, there's always burglaries, theft and pickpocketing to go for as well (though I generally leave that to a more thievery character... yeah, I even select my achievment-hunting according to character idea...)
-Trophies. Like, fishing (eh) and Monster trophies (oh, the grind-horror!) Those are grindings I so far cannot see a way around, which puts me in quite a quandry... I really, really hate grinding, but... I also really, really like colors, and I want the dye colors one gets from the collections... I probably will have to grind for thise, whining about it all the way... I really wish some "boss" mobs gave a highly increased drop chance, to get past the "spend hours doing nothing but killing hundreds of mobs looking for that one super-rare trophy drop"

What -really- vexes me about grinding is the grinders who do it while messing up things for me when they happen to do it where I want to quest, and even worse, the grinders coming on the forums whining about how grinding is not getting them whatever they grind for even faster...
I mean, I can see why playing grinder style should be a viable way, due to the "play as you want" policy. I don't see how it should be -faster- then any other way - each ought to be equal in my opinion...
And I somehow hope that come the champion system final phase, and removal of vet ranks, at least -some- of the grinders may stop grinding for expees, and go play elsewhere, elsehow.

leepalmer95 · December 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Grinding is basically doing something basic and boring over and over till you get what you want.

While I think grinding for gear is good, most other forms of grinding are really boring.

Eh. I really cannot stand mindless repetetive actions, so I don't grind when I can help it.

- I get my gear crafting levels through deconstructing, which generally means I don't hit 50 there until after completing cadwells. The consumables crafting at least I got with my self-usage craftings, one needs those food buffs in cyrodil after all... Writs... I tend to do sparingly, though I might have to change that for motiv page hunt someday. Maybe. Or just forget that motiv. Not sure yet.
- Horse training is a chore, but at least I can do it "en passant" with my questing - but that means that those characters I play a lot have their horse maxed, and the others... are still working on it. But I'll get there in time.
Alliance rank... it the worst, since my pvPness is at best mediocre... and to earn it fast one would need to do a lot of enemy players... wish there were more AP gains in cyrodil, expecially for the ones like me who seldom win, yet still come and try.
- Lorebooks are fun, fun, fun! I never search for them, I just pick them up as I go along, and usually max mages guild in early cadwells gold. I suppose if I did pot more effort into it I could get there sooner, but... I am playing the game to have fun, not to win a race to the end.
- Gear and mats come en passant as well, I just play my game, and be happy about what comes my way. Sure, I'd lurve more and better options to get gear... but I get by regardless. Just a matter of time, I can be patient.
- Champion points - slow and steady got me to my current 415 c-points, and I still make an average of one or two a day, depending on how much I play. Grinding them would be taking the whole fun out of getting them IMO, so i don't, I just quest and let them come at a leisurely pace.
- Levels - also come durning normal play, I just do all the quests, yeah, for the eight time, and even though it does get a bit tenious when you remember every detail from last time, it still is better then spending my time mindlessly slaughtering mobs in some cave. Also, skill points through quest rewards, skyshards, and all the other stuff you stumble over while questing, like books or treasure chests.
- Skyshards come en passant following all the quests, and one advantage of repeating all the questings is remembering where to look for most of them. Though I had a blast first time around figuring out where the missed ones were from the cryptic hints in the journal...

Some possible grinding you forgot to mention:
-Legerdemain... and I have to admit, I love exploring and looking for treasure chests! It may be somewhat repetetive, but I find the fun at following an idea where one could be hidden and finding yourself right too much fun! Of course, legerdemain doesn't rely on chest openings alone, there's always burglaries, theft and pickpocketing to go for as well (though I generally leave that to a more thievery character... yeah, I even select my achievment-hunting according to character idea...)
-Trophies. Like, fishing (eh) and Monster trophies (oh, the grind-horror!) Those are grindings I so far cannot see a way around, which puts me in quite a quandry... I really, really hate grinding, but... I also really, really like colors, and I want the dye colors one gets from the collections... I probably will have to grind for thise, whining about it all the way... I really wish some "boss" mobs gave a highly increased drop chance, to get past the "spend hours doing nothing but killing hundreds of mobs looking for that one super-rare trophy drop"

What -really- vexes me about grinding is the grinders who do it while messing up things for me when they happen to do it where I want to quest, and even worse, the grinders coming on the forums whining about how grinding is not getting them whatever they grind for even faster...
I mean, I can see why playing grinder style should be a viable way, due to the "play as you want" policy. I don't see how it should be -faster- then any other way - each ought to be equal in my opinion...
And I somehow hope that come the champion system final phase, and removal of vet ranks, at least -some- of the grinders may stop grinding for expees, and go play elsewhere, elsehow.

You know in early mmorpg's grinding was the only way to level because there way no quests, quests came after.

People will always grind because it's faster, yes its boring but so are doing the same quests 3 times and taking 3-4 times as long getting to the highest level so you can finally pvp.

Grinders are entitled to grind as much as questers are entitled to quest.

Genomic · December 2015

It's operant conditioning. Behaviour can be maintained by offering an occasional reward, which stimulates the release of dopamine, conditioning the subject to continue to repeat even the most repetitive and mindless tasks.

Have you ever seen someone on a poker machine, feeding coins into the slot for hours on end? The flashing lights and colours puts the gambler into a semi-conscious and mentally pliable state, and the occasional payout produces that dopamine hit that reinforces that pattern of behaviour. MMOs and other online games rely heavily on the same tactics and focus on the same aspects of human psychology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c

Shadesofkin · December 2015

The grind is only unfun if you're not having fun.

I find it a nice way to farm exp and gold while I have conversations with guildmates over TS.

TheShadowScout · December 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Grinders are entitled to grind as much as questers are entitled to quest.

I can accept that. I may not like it, but I can accept it.

Still doesn't mean I will accept the grinders demanding their grinding gets to be -better- then questing... same effect for same effort (= time spent), sure, but I dislike it when one way to play brings an advange over another way... (and yeah, that means I have to agree PvP expee gains should get a buff, as right now PvP lags behind in the XP gain department, even though I don't like PvP...)

Sausage · December 2015

ESO's plan was to tackle grinding problem by adding tons of new weapons if something start to bore you, build another build and try again and make CP-system so of whatever you do you get CP. I hope after VR-removal we finally start to see some progress, currently, Zen adds content, we grind that same content weeks or months and do nothing else, and everything else is crap, like Craglorn, why it needs to be useless? I'd love to do Craglorn once a while myself. Endgame should be totally open, you can do whatever you want, go Craglorn, do DSA, maybe Trial, after it Vet Dungeon, maybe a bit of IC or Cyrodil. Thats how they can effectively fight against grinding.

ProfessorKittyhawk · December 2015

I went to a club once and there seemed to be a whole lot of people who enjoyed grinding.

Different strokes for different folks.

Sausage · December 2015

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I went to a club once and there seemed to be a whole lot of people who enjoyed grinding.

Different strokes for different folks.

It was Korean Club? If people like grinding theres plenty of Korean Grinders.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · December 2015

Grinding isn't fun. Grinding is literally put into games to keep people perpetually busy and distracted. It is the carrot dangled in front of the donkey to get it to walk. If the donkey ever gets the carrot it stops walking and hence can never be allowed to receive it. This disgusting principal is pervasive throughout all of human civilization. For instance, people spend all their lives working in the hope of enjoying themselves sometime in the distant future. The only problem is, its a complete fantasy. Very very few people will actually get to where they wish to be. Most will die trying or be to old to enjoy themselves.

One of the main reasons people play video games is to get away from the *** grind of life. When developers put life grinds into video games it is such a monumental slap in the face and it is always met with a lot of discontent.