Do you know about TES Lore?

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

Never really paid attention to books or the lore books I just got them for level 10 mages guild and achievements in the game. Can someone explain what lore breaking means?

Lore-breaking: The act of adding content that completely contradicts the existing timeline's state of affairs for that particular era and time period of said era, or even create a chain reaction to contradict other points of the timeline. This timeline is basically established via the course of The Elder Scrolls franchise, and for all we know continues to develop! The writers must be careful though to not contradict things they already placed in the timeline when making new content though, which is why fans of the series familiar with the lore of the franchise call "lore-breaking" on ideas and suggestions that would do so, no matter how good they may be from an MMO or player's perspective.

HifgestShark · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I started from Skyrim and the lore and story is what got me into TES so to say i'm not an expert at lore but it is interesting.

FlicksZ · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I click this option because I like to think I know what I'm talking about in regards to this.

However an expert in the lore, dabbling in past games I am not. Always intrigued to learn more, especially if goes hand in hand with general gameplay I am.

Respect to the knowledgeable I give but a fine line between immersion and playability there is.

Luigi_Vampa · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I know a lot about TES lore, and I love it, but that isn't why I still play ESO. I can't get as into the world as I can in a single player title. For me the true TES experience is in the single player titles. I like the game world being TES, it makes it more enjoyable, but it isn't replacing the single player games.

ADarklore · December 2015

ESO is just another MMO to me, no backstory.

The problem I see with "lore" is that, considering lore to be 100% accurate goes against reality. Look at our own human history, much of what we know about the ancient past are complete 'guesses' made by historians and archaeologists. Consider our own recent history, there are people today who deny documented atrocities that occurred less than a hundred years ago... and here in the U.S. we have elected education officials trying to alter history textbooks to make them more acceptable to their political or religious belief. This has occurred numerous times in our history, where "the victors write the history"... yet people don't want to accept that the same thing can happen in Elder Scrolls?!? That huge gaps in time cannot have any discrepancy... even though we see in our own REALITY that it happens.

Browiseth · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I'm familiar with TES lore yeah. I wouldn't say it helps me enjoy the game since...well, the whole backstory and everything really isn't that spectacular imo
Oh dear, I've just invited an entire legion to my front door, haven't I?

Legoless · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I'm only here for the lore, to be honest. ZOS haven't disappointed!

PBpsy · December 2015

Other, because Christmas.

Browiseth wrote: »

I'm familiar with TES lore yeah. I wouldn't say it helps me enjoy the game since...well, the whole backstory and everything really isn't that spectacular imo
Oh dear, I've just invited an entire legion to my front door, haven't I?

I agree. Although I like all TES games they are all mediocre at best in in terms of story as far as RPGs go .Actually they are on average quite lame but that is not why I like them. /Puts on flame resistance rings.

Yinmaigao · December 2015

Other, because Christmas.

Other:

I like the lore and it is interesting, but I don't cry about "breaking immersion" or breaches of lore. I care more about having a quality game that entertains me.

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I know a lot but definitely not everything it is fun to lore monger my friends

Ankael07 · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

While I had dabbled in Skyrim, I am playing ESO because it involves the sword/sorcery type of environment that I enjoy. I don't care about lore, and keep in mind that ESO occurs in the distant past, so much of what people complain about being "lore breaking" are possible because we are playing in a time before some of the other ES game lore occurred.

I do enjoy the story, but I honestly could care less about "lore"... I'm not a RP'er, I'm a game player.

It is the very fact that this game takes place in the past that players notice lore breaking content. The past is set, and literally written in stone. Games taking place in a later date than the previous games can easily change the story and content and it is not breaking anything because it is writing history.

Talos changed a portion of history when he attained godhood.When he altered Cyrodiil for better use for the empire he changed the landscape for all time...past and present

Aletheion · December 2015

Other, because Christmas.

I know a lot of the lore and see it both being played out and broken in ESO (far more played out then broken as some would have people think).

The bottom line for me though is that, although the overarching TES story is somewhat interesting, it's not captivating. It doesn't sit in the annals of time as one of the great fantasy stories. It's good, but not great. For me, I don't really care that much about certain breeches in lore here and there as long as the game is well thought out and well played. That doesn't mean I want it to turn into a WOW/Neverwinter fantasy free-for-all and just do a bunch of stupid random stuff (like give us a Gelatinous Cube as a mount), but I'm also not *** about whether or not they adhere perfectly to every detail of the lore.

-Aletheion

Elebeth · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

ADarklore wrote: »

The problem I see with "lore" is that, considering lore to be 100% accurate goes against reality. Look at our own human history, much of what we know about the ancient past are complete 'guesses' made by historians and archaeologists. Consider our own recent history, there are people today who deny documented atrocities that occurred less than a hundred years ago... and here in the U.S. we have elected education officials trying to alter history textbooks to make them more acceptable to their political or religious belief. This has occurred numerous times in our history, where "the victors write the history"... yet people don't want to accept that the same thing can happen in Elder Scrolls?!? That huge gaps in time cannot have any discrepancy... even though we see in our own REALITY that it happens.

What you described is not "lore-breaking". It is regulary used and recurring aspect that can be seen in every TES game. Phrastus and Cinnabar are probably most common example of this (in ESO); two historians that interpret same books/events/ideas completely different.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

Never really paid attention to books or the lore books I just got them for level 10 mages guild and achievements in the game. Can someone explain what lore breaking means?

Lore-breaking: The act of adding content that completely contradicts the existing timeline's state of affairs for that particular era and time period of said era, or even create a chain reaction to contradict other points of the timeline. This timeline is basically established via the course of The Elder Scrolls franchise, and for all we know continues to develop! The writers must be careful though to not contradict things they already placed in the timeline when making new content though, which is why fans of the series familiar with the lore of the franchise call "lore-breaking" on ideas and suggestions that would do so, no matter how good they may be from an MMO or player's perspective.

^That is closer to the "lore-breaking". For example, (it was hot topic recently so...) you might argue what are dragons, why are dragons, even when are dragons but you can't change the fact that there are no dragons until 4E 201 (yes I'm aware of Nafaalilargus and similar cases). So asking for one or two dragons to appear in ESO is not lore-breaking (but highly debatable) and asking for myriad of dragons like in TES V is lore-breaking (unless time manipulation/shenanigans are introduced, which is also highly debatable).

PrinceBoru · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

The game seems to have a very fluid lore.
Perhaps it has to to evolve.

MrDerrikk · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Aletheion wrote: »

I know a lot of the lore and see it both being played out and broken in ESO (far more played out then broken as some would have people think).

The bottom line for me though is that, although the overarching TES story is somewhat interesting, it's not captivating. It doesn't sit in the annals of time as one of the great fantasy stories. It's good, but not great. For me, I don't really care that much about certain breeches in lore here and there as long as the game is well thought out and well played. That doesn't mean I want it to turn into a WOW/Neverwinter fantasy free-for-all and just do a bunch of stupid random stuff (like give us a Gelatinous Cube as a mount), but I'm also not *** about whether or not they adhere perfectly to every detail of the lore.

-Aletheion

I get what you're saying for sure. There are much better fantasy world trilogies out there, and because I haven't played any games I thought were better I'll list books; Tolkien's LOTR, Pratchett's Discworld, Brooks's Shanarra (which incidentally has a book with an elven Island called Morrowindl being destroyed by a gigantic volcano).
Thing is, from all the games I've played this series tends to get a lot from the fact that your character exploits are seen through the history, and has an awful lot of embellishment through books and notes. You don't feel like you're just watching the history happen, you're creating it.

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

The problem I see with "lore" is that, considering lore to be 100% accurate goes against reality. Look at our own human history, much of what we know about the ancient past are complete 'guesses' made by historians and archaeologists. Consider our own recent history, there are people today who deny documented atrocities that occurred less than a hundred years ago... and here in the U.S. we have elected education officials trying to alter history textbooks to make them more acceptable to their political or religious belief. This has occurred numerous times in our history, where "the victors write the history"... yet people don't want to accept that the same thing can happen in Elder Scrolls?!? That huge gaps in time cannot have any discrepancy... even though we see in our own REALITY that it happens.

The difference is we actually live said history in Tamriel, not read about it.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As it stands I'm not that big on lore but I am curious:

Exactly when were the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood officially founded?

"The Dark Brotherhood sprang from a religious order, the Morag Tong, during the Second Era.We can approximate the time this belief was adopted with the first known murder committed by the Morag Tong. In the year 324 of the Second Era, the Potentate Versidue-Shaie was murdered in his palace".
This is the first mention of "The Dark Brotherhood" from 2E412 from "The Brothers of Darkness". But, we know the Morag Tong has existed in rumor back to the late 1E. But it was this assassination that caused strife with in the Morag Tong, and a small group split off, claiming to hear the voice of Sithis. They grew to become the Dark Brotherhood.
The Thieves Guild on the other hand, has no founding date, reference to beginnings, and ANY writings on the matter say they are a myth and does not exist.(At least that I could find in researching this post). Perhaps Loremaster Lawrence could provide light on this..
As to the OP, The Elder Scrolls lore is what Keeps me playing also. Started with Morrowind. Never looked back. And we have to consider, TES lore began in 1994! 20+ years of continuing lore! May the Divines bless us with 20 more! Huzzah!
And A Happy Saturalia and Merry New Life Festival to all at Zos and to all the TES fans, old and new! Huzzah!

Iluvrien · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Yes I know about the lore. Not all of it, but a fair amount. I am not at home (for Christmas) so I can't post a photo of the Lore books I bought already... I am waiting for the fourth volume to be released.

Quite simply, if it wasn't for the Lore (world setting) then I wouldn't have given ESO a chance. I certainly wouldn't have stayed for as long as I have.

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As it stands I'm not that big on lore but I am curious:

Exactly when were the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood officially founded?

"The Dark Brotherhood sprang from a religious order, the Morag Tong, during the Second Era.We can approximate the time this belief was adopted with the first known murder committed by the Morag Tong. In the year 324 of the Second Era, the Potentate Versidue-Shaie was murdered in his palace".
This is the first mention of "The Dark Brotherhood" from 2E412 from "The Brothers of Darkness". But, we know the Morag Tong has existed in rumor back to the late 1E. But it was this assassination that caused strife with in the Morag Tong, and a small group split off, claiming to hear the voice of Sithis. They grew to become the Dark Brotherhood.
The Thieves Guild on the other hand, has no founding date, reference to beginnings, and ANY writings on the matter say they are a myth and does not exist.(At least that I could find in researching this post). Perhaps Loremaster Lawrence could provide light on this..
As to the OP, The Elder Scrolls lore is what Keeps me playing also. Started with Morrowind. Never looked back. And we have to consider, TES lore began in 1994! 20+ years of continuing lore! May the Divines bless us with 20 more! Huzzah!
And A Happy Saturalia and Merry New Life Festival to all at Zos and to all the TES fans, old and new! Huzzah!

Ok so I did a bit of digging into TES' timeline and as you say the Dark Brotherhood was established in 2E. According to the timeline the DB's skills were first taken into use in 2E 360. TESO takes place in 2E 582 so in case anyone was wondering the DB does not break lore by being in TESO

According to said timeline the first mention of the Thieves Guild is during 3E when a member stole an Elder Scroll from White-Gold Tower. We do indeed need some insight from the loremaster as to when the TG was established...

Robo_Hobo · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Yes I know about the lore. Not all of it, but a fair amount. I am not at home (for Christmas) so I can't post a photo of the Lore books I bought already... I am waiting for the fourth volume to be released.

Quite simply, if it wasn't for the Lore (world setting) then I wouldn't have given ESO a chance. I certainly wouldn't have stayed for as long as I have.

Fourth Volume?

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As it stands I'm not that big on lore but I am curious:

Exactly when were the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood officially founded?

"The Dark Brotherhood sprang from a religious order, the Morag Tong, during the Second Era.We can approximate the time this belief was adopted with the first known murder committed by the Morag Tong. In the year 324 of the Second Era, the Potentate Versidue-Shaie was murdered in his palace".
This is the first mention of "The Dark Brotherhood" from 2E412 from "The Brothers of Darkness". But, we know the Morag Tong has existed in rumor back to the late 1E. But it was this assassination that caused strife with in the Morag Tong, and a small group split off, claiming to hear the voice of Sithis. They grew to become the Dark Brotherhood.
The Thieves Guild on the other hand, has no founding date, reference to beginnings, and ANY writings on the matter say they are a myth and does not exist.(At least that I could find in researching this post). Perhaps Loremaster Lawrence could provide light on this..
As to the OP, The Elder Scrolls lore is what Keeps me playing also. Started with Morrowind. Never looked back. And we have to consider, TES lore began in 1994! 20+ years of continuing lore! May the Divines bless us with 20 more! Huzzah!
And A Happy Saturalia and Merry New Life Festival to all at Zos and to all the TES fans, old and new! Huzzah!

Ok so I did a bit of digging into TES' timeline and as you say the Dark Brotherhood was established in 2E. According to the timeline the DB's skills were first taken into use in 2E 360. TESO takes place in 2E 582 so in case anyone was wondering the DB does not break lore by being in TESO

According to said timeline the first mention of the Thieves Guild is during 3E when a member stole an Elder Scroll from White-Gold Tower. We do indeed need some insight from the loremaster as to when the TG was established...

Said thieves guild member that stole that Elder Scroll is the player character of TES4: Oblivion, if you didn't know. :P

The thieves guild is a bit different from the others in that its not a world-wide organization like, particularly the fighters and mages guild, they're more based in individual provinces and just use 'Thieve's guild' as the name. There's no known connection between the Skyrim Thieve's guild with the one in Cyrodiil, and they operate almost completely differently. I've not played through the Thieve's guild lines aside from Oblivion and Skyrim, but I hear the one in Vvardenfell is a new organization rather than an ancient one, and also probably not connected with the other provincial ones. This may not have always been the case, and perhaps in ESO we might experience a time when there was a world-wide Thieves guild for awhile, that would certainly be interesting.

KhajitFurTrader · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Elebeth wrote: »

What you described is not "lore-breaking". It is regulary used and recurring aspect that can be seen in every TES game. Phrastus and Cinnabar are probably most common example of this (in ESO); two historians that interpret same books/events/ideas completely different.

Exactly. This is what makes ESO lore so vivid and colorful. As Lawrence "Lorence" Schick once stated on an ESO Live interview, the lore and history of Tamriel are always told form the perspective of its denizens. So of course it's subjective, biased, and sometimes just plain wrong (or is it? You'll never know for sure). This is by design. This is what makes it interesting, because the reader is forced to take everything with a grain of salt. Additionally, ESO takes place during a period known as the Interregnum to later ages. It"s a kind of Dark Age between two Empires, there's chaos and wars aplenty, and very few written records made it through.

Thus, (fictional) Elder Scrolls lore is allowed to contradict itself, because the (fictional) people who recorded it didn't know better, or followed an agenda, or were just plain lying. The concept of "lore-breaking" doesn't quite fit here, as both fictional and actual lore-writers are allowing themselves a lot of leeway, because flavor intentionally trumps "fact".

Iluvrien · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Yes I know about the lore. Not all of it, but a fair amount. I am not at home (for Christmas) so I can't post a photo of the Lore books I bought already... I am waiting for the fourth volume to be released.

Quite simply, if it wasn't for the Lore (world setting) then I wouldn't have given ESO a chance. I certainly wouldn't have stayed for as long as I have.

Fourth Volume?

My apologies, I should have been clearer.

I have, Tales of Tamriel Vol 1 (The Land) and Vol 2 (The Lore) as well as Skyrim Library Vol 1 (The Histories) and am looking forward to Vol 2 (Man, Mer and Beast).

By fourth volume I was describing the 4th published book of TES lore, rather of ESO lore (of which there have only been 2 so far). Clearer?

Danikat · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I wouldn't say I'm an expert, there's lots I don't know (my first era history is pretty poor for example) but I really enjoy reading books in all the TES games and I sometimes read up on stuff on websites too. It's definitely a big part of the appeal for me,in this and all the other games.

Robo_Hobo · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Yes I know about the lore. Not all of it, but a fair amount. I am not at home (for Christmas) so I can't post a photo of the Lore books I bought already... I am waiting for the fourth volume to be released.

Quite simply, if it wasn't for the Lore (world setting) then I wouldn't have given ESO a chance. I certainly wouldn't have stayed for as long as I have.

Fourth Volume?

My apologies, I should have been clearer.

I have, Tales of Tamriel Vol 1 (The Land) and Vol 2 (The Lore) as well as Skyrim Library Vol 1 (The Histories) and am looking forward to Vol 2 (Man, Mer and Beast).

By fourth volume I was describing the 4th published book of TES lore, rather of ESO lore (of which there have only been 2 so far). Clearer?

Woah, I didn't realize I posted that lol. I typed it out but then switched pages to look into it, as I thought you meant fourth ESO or Skyrim one, rather than fourth released, but then came to the same conclusion you said - apparently I must have accidentally posted it still. Now I'm worried if I might have done the same dozens of times before with drafted, incomplete posts... Xd

Edit: or I simply didnt notice that I continued writing in the same post, whoops lol

Anyway, I look forward to Skyrim volume 2 as well, I recently bought the two ESO ones (waiting for them to arrive in the mail), and I'll get the Skyrim one soon too.

About a few weeks ago I bought the third edition of the pocket guide to the empire, would like to get the first edition as well some time but can't seem to find it being sold anywhere (outside of unopened Redguard boxes which I may eventually resort to buying but its rather expensive).

Also got the two official novels which I enjoyed reading, it'd be cool if they wrote another to continue after the events of Skyrim inbetween the time of TES6, whenever it is.

It's fun collecting these.

MaKTaiL · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

FlicksZ wrote: »

I click this option because I like to think I know what I'm talking about in regards to this.

However an expert in the lore, dabbling in past games I am not. Always intrigued to learn more, especially if goes hand in hand with general gameplay I am.

Respect to the knowledgeable I give but a fine line between immersion and playability there is.

Yoda you are.

Enodoc · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As it stands I'm not that big on lore but I am curious:

Exactly when were the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood officially founded?

The Thieves Guild on the other hand, has no founding date, reference to beginnings, and ANY writings on the matter say they are a myth and does not exist.(At least that I could find in researching this post). Perhaps Loremaster Lawrence could provide light on this..

Yeah there's no much known about Thieves Guild history. What I think is mostly agreed, however, is that (during the 3rd Era, at least) there is no central Thieves Guild administration and each organization with that name has their own means and methods. The book "Thief of Virtue", which first appears in Oblivion, says The only known Thieves Guild was wiped out over 450 years ago, and if that was written at a time contemporary to the Oblivion timeline, that puts the demise of this particular instance of the Thieves Guild as sometime around the end of the Second Era. That's just 300 years from the time ESO is set, so it's plausible that the Thieves Guild we will be seeing in the new DLC is an earlier form of the one that was wiped out at the end of the Second Era. Since nothing is known about that iteration of the Guild, it's also quite possible that it was more of a Tamriel-wide organization than the provincial chapters seen in the Third and Fourth Eras. Beyond that, you have the Nightingales, which may or may not have anything to do with overall Guild leadership, but definitely provide a link between the Guild and Nocturnal.

Smitch_59 · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

americansteel wrote: »

first and last MMOl only because its ES..

Same here. Would never have bought it if it wasn't ES.

FriedEggSandwich · December 2015

Other, because Christmas.

Played Skyrim for 200+ hours so I enjoy the lore, it fascinates me, but I'm no lore buff. I'm the type of annoying person that has to ask questions while watching a movie to keep up with others lol. So the lore takes a long time to sink in, but I'm learning. Certainly wouldn't notice anything lore-breaking, unless I saw Santa in game. I enjoy anything fantasy though.

Edit: my main enjoyment in the game is the brawler-style combat in pvp, it's a beautiful thing when it works. I usually play in the early hours so I get lag-free pvp more often than not, even though it's harder to find at those hours.

Volkodav · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

I've loved the lore since Morrowind.I am not,however,one of those Lore Lords,who tell others what is and what is not right. XD

BabeestorGor · December 2015

I know TES Lore stuffs, and it helps me enjoy the game.

Been playing TES since MW and lore is a big part of why I prefer it to other fantasy crpgs.