Hey you.. yes YOU.. HEY!... stay TIGHT.. stick with the BALL... don't stray!!!

ShadoPanauin · December 2015

Winnamine wrote: »

I get it, in your case the guild leader sounds like he overreacted and was kinda a jerk about it...BUT
1. Any organized group you're in, if they're being serious, will want you to be with the group, that's the point of grouping
2. Leading is a tough job, and getting 24 ppl (or any number, honestly) to stay on crown is like herding a bunch of ADD cats
3. Sounds like you were new to the guild, or at least not a regular with them, so you're going to get less leeway
4. You took care of yourself and didn't die, and your group wasn't bombed and didn't need you while you weren't there bc you wandered off, but that isn't always the case, in fact, usually if someone wanders off and gets ganked alone by 2 players, they die and the group has to try to go get them.

Group play can be very fun and being actually good at it takes quite a bit of skill. Saying that being part of a larger team means you don't have to be any good is asinine; working as a team takes its own set of skills, which is why there are some extremely good groups, and some extremely bad ones. Every elite pvp guild in the game has run large groups, but then, so have most pug guilds. Idk what guild you were running with, but almost every good guild, if they know you and you prove to them that you know what you're doing, will basically let you do your own thing as long as it doesn't hurt the group.

100x this.

Sanct16 · December 2015

Well you don't NEED skill if your group is big enough. If you fight 30 pugs with a group of 24 of course it won't be challenging. However, there is plenty of things that seperate skilled and bad players in group. Just to give some examples:

Knowing what to do without the raid lead telling you to do:
Individual Movement: In general you should of course be moving to where your leader tells you but there is no need to keep standing in 3 banners, a negate and 5 meteor dots just because your raid lead doesn't tell you to move out. That example is of course oversimplified; in reality it rather comes down to small things like maybe not running straight into the middle of the enemy group but circling around them and things like not overextending too much and not getting stuck in the back.
Correct usage of your skills: There isn't much point of you using having certain skills on your bar if you don't use them well. For example if you use Maneuver it might be helpful if you cast it for the guys in back. However, you shouldn't get yourself killed by running out of stamina and then get stuck yourself.

Knowing when to ignore what the raid lead says: No, I don't mean its ok to run south when lead says "go north" because you want to kill that guy with the funny name.
However, there is only so much a raid lead can say in a certain time. If he says "drop all ultis here" although maybe its not actually needed a good player will recognise it and hold his ulti and have it ready for the next engage while a braindead monkey will drop his negate on a bunch of corpses.

Could write a lot more about this but cba right now. Anyway, the point is that a group of 12 great individual players will always beat a grp of 12 braindead monkeys.

Regarding your anectode the leader might have been a bit too harsh but he is right. Wether you stay with the group and contribute or you shouldn't be in that group. There is always different motivations of course and if you only want some casual fun you're probably better of joining some pug group. There might be other people tho who look for competition and you should accept that for other people it is maybe more than "just a game".

Regarding super-tight ball groups, no top tier PVP in EU runs super-tight groups anymore as its way behind the current meta. Even tho I agree that AoE caps should be removed for obvious reasons the current burst AoEs like meteors and proxy dets are already enough to easily take down all stacked groups. Can't say how it is on NA but on EU the meta is definetly moving together rather than stacking. In most fights the winner is the group that moved better.

Sanct16 · December 2015

Sallington wrote: »

All big groups I've grouped with have been "stay on crown or GTFO" groups. That's pretty much the only point of being in a group that larger, since their main purpose is to "exploit" the AOE cap mechanic.

I've been having much more fun just flying solo or in a very small group, hopping around to wherever the action is.

Actually when it comes to competitive groupplay the purpose of numbers is to increase damage output, not reduce damage taken. Dead people don't damage.

OtarTheMad · December 2015

Unfortunately some guild leaders and group leaders are like that but not all honestly. Plenty of guilds know how to mix fun with serious tactics and as long as you're not hurting the group sometimes let people stray.

Sounds like the guy overreacted, like others mentioned, that sucks. I have been in the same sort of situation (what seems like ages ago now) and just laughed it off. No shock that the guild leader who did that in my situation burned out and rage quit.

RadioheadSh0t · December 2015

If you're going to run in someone else's group, you're going to have to live by their rules. If you don't like it, don't run with them. Simple as that.

I've been yelled at for not staying on crown, mostly when having Attention Deficit Streak Disorder on my Sorc, and my reaction isnt to get defensive, it's to tighten up, do my job, and stay on crown. You never know when your group is going to get stealth bombed, and you need to be prepared at all times. If you want 1vX fights, go 1vX. If you want skilled group play, join a skilled group, but you should realize you will be expected to conform to what the guild/group requires if they're worth a damn.

You don't want to be the guy the group has to go and Rez because you were off fighting separately. And even worse, you don't want to be the guy the group leaves behind because you weren't on crown. Nothing is worse than the "horse ride of shame" after being left behind because you weren't playing tight enough.

But anyone who perceives organized groups as "mindless zombies" clearly hasn't played in an elite group regularly. I've had sessions where Its been non-stop action for almost an hour, where you're constantly being asked to move and coordinate effectively, and it is far from "mindless." It takes intense concentration, great leadership, and impeccable coordination to run with the best of the best.

Synnkar · December 2015

Stikato wrote: »

I can't stand playing in blob/ball groups. I learned that within 5 minutes of being in one the first time. So I stopped joining them. My decision has nothing to do with any judgement on the skill level of different playstyles.

I just didn't like having to stack on crown and not being able to freelance. People that do, they are cool in my book. Just not my cup of tea.

I definitely mirror your sentiment but wish more people realized the beauty of small scale combat so we have more options for grouping when it comes to pvp. It too often becomes a zerg fest in cyrodiil right now.

Synnkar · December 2015

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

...

But anyone who perceives organized groups as "mindless zombies" clearly hasn't played in an elite group regularly. I've had sessions where Its been non-stop action for almost an hour, where you're constantly being asked to move and coordinate effectively, and it is far from "mindless." It takes intense concentration, great leadership, and impeccable coordination to run with the best of the best.

I'm definitely using metaphors here with the "zombie" labeling, but there *is* a huge gap between the amount of skill, concentration, situational awareness, response times, etc. - call them mental resources - required within a zerg and within a small group environment. The lethality, urgency, precision requirement and importance of actions in a small group environment is an order of magnitude higher.

Again, I have played both enough to personally feel the difference. I don't know what else to say to describe it, other than how my brain can typically wonder off while still being very effective at following all of crown's instructions. In all the zerg commotion, single target DPS is in the minority with most of the area dominated by spin to win, healing spams and various ults. Yes, army maneuvering is tough, but that's crown's job, which I readily admit takes skill and learning.

I suspect, perhaps, that it is you who hasn't done much of the small scale squad play, both winning and losing in it, to realize the difference. I am not saying that playing in a ball-group is literally 0 skill; it certainly has a learning curve and skill cap of its own. But it *is* brain-dead, metaphorically speaking, in comparison to what you get in small scale (3-5 people) teams.

Rylana · December 2015

Stikato wrote: »

I can't stand playing in blob/ball groups. I learned that within 5 minutes of being in one the first time. So I stopped joining them. My decision has nothing to do with any judgement on the skill level of different playstyles.

I just didn't like having to stack on crown and not being able to freelance. People that do, they are cool in my book. Just not my cup of tea.

And this is an honest answer as a leader of a ball group I can respect. The playstyle isnt for everyone. Indeed you are probably not even built or geared in such a way that our playstyle even suits you anyway.

Theres a big difference between running solo, 5 man, or running a 12-20 man tight. Things need sacrificed for the benefit of the group, autonomy is traded for group utility.

Its sort of like self reliance vs socialism. Depending on the application, one is better suited to any given individual.

God I just realized my playstyle is socialism, i gotta revoke my party card now x.x

RadioheadSh0t · December 2015

Synnkar wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

...

But anyone who perceives organized groups as "mindless zombies" clearly hasn't played in an elite group regularly. I've had sessions where Its been non-stop action for almost an hour, where you're constantly being asked to move and coordinate effectively, and it is far from "mindless." It takes intense concentration, great leadership, and impeccable coordination to run with the best of the best.

I'm definitely using metaphors here with the "zombie" labeling, but there *is* a huge gap between the amount of skill, concentration, situational awareness, response times, etc. - call them mental resources - required within a zerg and within a small group environment. The lethality, urgency, precision requirement and importance of actions in a small group environment is an order of magnitude higher.

Again, I have played both enough to personally feel the difference. I don't know what else to say to describe it, other than how my brain can typically wonder off while still being very effective at following all of crown's instructions. In all the zerg commotion, single target DPS is in the minority with most of the area dominated by spin to win, healing spams and various ults. Yes, army maneuvering is tough, but that's crown's job, which I readily admit takes skill and learning.

I suspect, perhaps, that it is you who hasn't done much of the small scale squad play, both winning and losing in it, to realize the difference. I am not saying that playing in a ball-group is literally 0 skill; it certainly has a learning curve and skill cap of its own. But it *is* brain-dead, metaphorically speaking, in comparison to what you get in small scale (3-5 people) teams.

The fact that you are complaining about being yelled at for not being on crown tells me everything I need to know about the types of large groups you've run with. If you're "wondering off" mentally while playing, you're not playing high level group PvP. Sure, you've probably jumped in some "LFG" puggle parade, but that's not top level group PVP.

I enjoy groups of all sizes. I regularly solo, used to run a small group guild, and spent a lot time running in elite raids. Nothing has been more challenging than the highest level GvG fights. If you're running 3-5, and you get steamrolled by a larger group, you can just write it off to a numbers game because even the best 5 players in the game can't beat a very good guild group. When you're in a full raid, there are no excuses for losing, and many of those top fights come down to who is more organized and executes better. Even one "brain dead" group member effing up can wipe your entire group.

WRX · December 2015

@all

You guys must of been part of the coolest guild ever.

Definitely have to agree with the idea that, if you are running max size, it always feels unreasonable to lose a fight. Unfortunately also diminishes the solid accomplishments a group does because when you have a full raid its feels less impressive.

But the larger picture is that, in order to get to the level where you except to win 99% of your fights, you cant have people trying to get away from their "mindless fun" to go run off and help a 3 man fight that won't makes a difference.

Thats the difference between what makes good guilds great. Plenty of people aren't cut out for it, but saying these players haven't done small scale is crazy.

Perhaps, it is you, who hasn't given yourself the opportunity to run with an enjoyable competitive guild.

Scamandros · December 2015

Most people complain if I'm to tight with their ball

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

mchermie · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP.

Of course you will agree with OP when you only run with PuGs. So many clueless people throwing out their opinions about "organised groups" here

Rylana · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

And here we have the kind of response I cant respect.

1. Someone with your attitude would never get invited anyway, no worries there.
2. Full of yourself arent you? If you approve of the strat of the raid lead? Please, I assure you I know more about strat and game mechanics and what the other groups in this game are prone to do and even what their raid leads may be thinking, than you ever will, and have the experience to back it.
3. The typical stamp foot "i aint changin nuffinz" play just makes me giggle, because its that mentality that gets people killed, learn to adapt
4. 8k stam in cyro? Seriously? And you solo/smallscale with that? I bet youre an easy kill then.
5. A raid group (organized group) isnt a blob of mindless zombies. it is a well oiled machine in which everyone knows their role, takes cues and directional instructions, simple commands, and executes their role. Think military here. Soldiers arent mindless drones, they follow instructions and training, and play the role they trained for. Infantry, artillery, combat medic, recon, armor, etc etc etc.

Pretty much all i got to say to this one.

Psilent · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I'm have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

You have 8k stamina?

Ghost-Shot · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

And with that attitude you will be forever condemned to the pugs when you do group, good luck with that.

Ghost-Shot · December 2015

Rylana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

And here we have the kind of response I cant respect.

1. Someone with your attitude would never get invited anyway, no worries there.
2. Full of yourself arent you? If you approve of the strat of the raid lead? Please, I assure you I know more about strat and game mechanics and what the other groups in this game are prone to do and even what their raid leads may be thinking, than you ever will, and have the experience to back it.
3. The typical stamp foot "i aint changin nuffinz" play just makes me giggle, because its that mentality that gets people killed, learn to adapt
4. 8k stam in cyro? Seriously? And you solo/smallscale with that? I bet youre an easy kill then.
5. A raid group (organized group) isnt a blob of mindless zombies. it is a well oiled machine in which everyone knows their role, takes cues and directional instructions, simple commands, and executes their role. Think military here. Soldiers arent mindless drones, they follow instructions and training, and play the role they trained for. Infantry, artillery, combat medic, recon, armor, etc etc etc.

Pretty much all i got to say to this one.

I think you meant free AP there.

thelordoffelines · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

You need to work on your build if it has zero flexibility.... And 8k stam.

Stikato · December 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

I can't stand playing in blob/ball groups. I learned that within 5 minutes of being in one the first time. So I stopped joining them. My decision has nothing to do with any judgement on the skill level of different playstyles.

I just didn't like having to stack on crown and not being able to freelance. People that do, they are cool in my book. Just not my cup of tea.

And this is an honest answer as a leader of a ball group I can respect. The playstyle isnt for everyone. Indeed you are probably not even built or geared in such a way that our playstyle even suits you anyway.

Theres a big difference between running solo, 5 man, or running a 12-20 man tight. Things need sacrificed for the benefit of the group, autonomy is traded for group utility.

Its sort of like self reliance vs socialism. Depending on the application, one is better suited to any given individual.

God I just realized my playstyle is socialism, i gotta revoke my party card now x.x

Agreed, of course.

On the flip side, us smaller groups and solos sacrifice the utility of being in a larger formation in order to gain autonomy. Which means we can't "change the game" or alter the map the way some of the organized groups do. We do try to in our own small ways, which can range from taking a resource, to ganking a reinforcement line, to just adding a couple more to the random zerg.

To me all of these playstyles are perfectly valid, and I'm glad they all exist because it means more players. Now, I would love to see more meaningful small-scale objectives (for example, capturable, limited-duration spawn points in different locations around the map, as opposed to forward camps) but for now I would settle for less lag!

Stikato · December 2015

Synnkar wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

I can't stand playing in blob/ball groups. I learned that within 5 minutes of being in one the first time. So I stopped joining them. My decision has nothing to do with any judgement on the skill level of different playstyles.

I just didn't like having to stack on crown and not being able to freelance. People that do, they are cool in my book. Just not my cup of tea.

I definitely mirror your sentiment but wish more people realized the beauty of small scale combat so we have more options for grouping when it comes to pvp. It too often becomes a zerg fest in cyrodiil right now.

I just think the game itself needs to support it a little bit better. Small-scale objectives, etc.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

You need to work on your build if it has zero flexibility.... And 8k stam.

Why ? If I'm happy with what I'm doing and have fun ?

I quote you but I could just as well could have quoted all people that have reacted to my post : I don't understand why you criticize the way I enjoy to play in Cyrodiil : it suits me, it doesn't disturb you at all and it doesn't interfere with what you're doing.
I'm doing fine with 8K stam - more would be great but I need my magicka too so that's my choice. But again "doing fine" has probably a quite different meaning for me and for you. I want to have fun, not to be invincible or to kill everyone. I couldn't care less about the color of the map, who is the emperor, or whatever. These things I only use as indicators as to what I can try to find isolated players or create small scale fight on the map. As soon as zergs arrive, I just go some other place, there's nothing I can do in a zerg (except farming AP) and certainly not have any fun. Anyway I'm not that easy a kill anymore and I win more and more 1v1 or 1v2 fights, at my own surprise. Admittedly at 1v3 I just RUUUUNNNN

Rylana wrote: »

And here we have the kind of response I cant respect.

Learn to respect people who disagree with you. Simple.

Rylana wrote: »

2. Full of yourself arent you? If you approve of the strat of the raid lead? Please, I assure you I know more about strat and game mechanics and what the other groups in this game are prone to do and even what their raid leads may be thinking, than you ever will, and have the experience to back it.

I don't think I'm "full of myself", even mentioned in my post that I wasn't a good PvPer but just progressing.

You on the other hand seem to be quite convinced of your own proficiency, if not perfection. Won't comment that since I don't know you and maybe you are excellent, but when I see nearly all PvPers complaining about zergs and lag, and then always go to the most populated campaign and make big groups to jump straight into the one big battle going on on the map, I wonder what raid leaders think, if they actually think... because I don't call this logical, strategic or smart. (but that's a gross generalization, I'm sure there are excellent raid leaders out there, but since I don't group much I don't know them all).

Rylana wrote: »

5. A raid group (organized group) isnt a blob of mindless zombies. it is a well oiled machine in which everyone knows their role, takes cues and directional instructions, simple commands, and executes their role. Think military here. Soldiers arent mindless drones, they follow instructions and training, and play the role they trained for. Infantry, artillery, combat medic, recon, armor, etc etc etc.

"Military" is exactly what I hate in zergs, and what you've described is EXACTLY what soldiers are : mindless drones who don't think, don't deserve information, are just there to obey (and of course be technically good at what they're meant to do, but so are robots).

There could be other types of "organized groups" , for other purposes than zerging / fighting large battles with AOEs, but it looks like the current PvP playerbase has approved of one single meta which is "everybody zerging at the same spot on the same campaign" as the only valid playstyle (and then they come cry at ZOS for PvP arena). Oh well...

.

Telel · December 2015

Wow...did someone really have the bigoted ignorance to say that about the kind of people that have died so that they could post sniveling drivel about how no one respects his special snowflake status?

Empty headed spoiled brats like that need to come off of their parent's teats and go learn about real life before they call soldiers mindless, and undeserving of anything.

Rylana is right. You really don't deserve any respect.

PrinceBoru · December 2015

ok wat now

Synnkar · December 2015

The military analogy is actually completely wrong. Modern military, as far as I've noted looking from the outside, is all about small teams that are given decision making power to fulfill their missions. They are smart in operation and federated.

It is literally exactly what I'm triving for here in ESO and the complete opposite of what I've metaphoricaly called "mindless zergs". They're small units that work tactically, not a physically impossible blob of 24 rampaging through the landscape spamming skills.

Jules · December 2015

Psilent wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LOL, couldn't agree more with OP. Running in a zerg sticking to the crown is boring, annoying, feels like being a dog on a leash, and doesn't feel like PvP at all. It's only good for farming AP, just like AOE-ing zombies in grindspots is good for farming XP. But it's exactly as boring and brainless. I do it every now and then when my goal is purely to farm AP as quickly as possible, but beyond that, I solo. I usually encounter like-minded solo-ers while doing it, we end up inviting each other and having great fun skirmishing.

Moreover, I'm pretty bad at PvP but soloing/small grouping makes me get better and better each time. I can choose what risks I take, when and whom to attack, take my time to analyze a situation. I learn much more doing this than running hastily everywhere trying to stick to a crown.

Dear raid leaders... I understand that your job is hard, but I won't obey you nonetheless, unless I'm purposingly farming AP and not expecting any fun.

I will not stack on your crown because I'm have 8K stamina and I cannot run and stealth and do all you want from me without running out of stam and die instantly once in combat.

I will not follow your orders if I don't know your planned strategy and objectives (and agree with it).

I will not slot whatever skill you want me to slot because I have my rotation and I don't want to ruin it and die.

I will not blindly follow you into big zergs, it's much more fun to create smaller combat on plenty of locations on the map (and yes that implies dealing with NPCs first instead of really PvP-ing but that's the price to pay for the kind of fight we enjoy).

But you don't have to worry because I will not group up with you.

You have 8k stamina?

Literally how is that even possible.

RadioheadSh0t · December 2015

Comparing a video game to the military is pointless. It's a freaking video game.

I'm just sick of hearing about how easy running in large raids is from people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about. They want so hard to believe their style of play is more difficult to validate their special snowflake status.

"I don't want to change my rotation because I don't want to die." If you can't adapt your skills and build based on situation and not fail, that's on you. Any player worth a damn can succeed in more than one role.

mchermie · December 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand why you criticize the way I enjoy to play in Cyrodiil : it suits me, it doesn't disturb you at all and it doesn't interfere with what you're doing.

Its obvious that you have no idea about how it is to play in a good(!) organised group. Play the way you want to play, and have fun

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Jules wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

You have 8k stamina?

Literally how is that even possible.

Actually I checked IG it's not 8K it's 9.5K (doesn't make much of a difference ;-) ).
I guess that's the very strict minimum one can have : no attribute points, no enchant, no set buffs, no food in stamina.... that's 9.5K stamina (but 45K magicka ;-) )

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I'm just sick of hearing about how easy running in large raids is from people who clearly have no clue what they're talking about. They want so hard to believe their style of play is more difficult to validate their special snowflake status.

"I don't want to change my rotation because I don't want to die." If you can't adapt your skills and build based on situation and not fail, that's on you. Any player worth a damn can succeed in more than one role.

Didn't say it was easy. Just said it was brainless and boring to me. Never said either that my playstyle was more difficult (just more fun to me), nor that I was a special snowflake. And of course I can adapt my skills and build, but I don't want to do that based on the orders of a raid leader that doesn't know anything about my build and will make me want to adopt some cookie cutter stuff. And since I solo, obviously I have attack AND resistance AND healing power.

I'm just explaining why pvping in big groups with the stack-on-crown strategy is not for me, I'm not criticizing you or any of you so I don't see why some reactions are so aggressive really.

eliisra · December 2015

I just dont get why some people join a raid or group, when they keep derping away doing they're own thing(usually dying), clearly more interested in solo'ing or doing some skirmish pewpew.

Why in the raid than? Usually to leech AP when it suits them, in my experience. Than bugger of when they see something more fun and rewarding going on, usually this occurs when time for boring siege, repairs or flag capping. It's selfish.

Common sense that you stay in the same area as the crown unless you have a specific job that requires going somewhere else. Common sense that you move as a group when playing together, that you're in range of heals and buffs. You should keep an eye out and take care of your team mates, not run away from them because "boring".

That's not the same as stacking, spamming and being brain afk.

Huckdabuck · December 2015

Telel wrote: »

Wow...did someone really have the bigoted ignorance to say that about the kind of people that have died so that they could post sniveling drivel about how no one respects his special snowflake status?

Empty headed spoiled brats like that need to come off of their parent's teats and go learn about real life before they call soldiers mindless, and undeserving of anything.

Rylana is right. You really don't deserve any respect.

+1