"We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game."
Oh great, another nerf for Stamina based builds! Haven't you kicked us in the balls enough lately with the changes you did with Siphoning Strikes?
wigglesgaming26 wrote: »"We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game."
Oh great, another nerf for Stamina based builds! Haven't you kicked us in the balls enough lately with the changes you did with Siphoning Strikes?
That only affected nightblades not all stamina based builds. And it definitely needs a nerf
wigglesgaming26 wrote: »"We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game."
Oh great, another nerf for Stamina based builds! Haven't you kicked us in the balls enough lately with the changes you did with Siphoning Strikes?
That only affected nightblades not all stamina based builds. And it definitely needs a nerf
And that's usually your and ZOS's answer to class balance and counters, nerf every other class :P
wigglesgaming26 wrote: »wigglesgaming26 wrote: »"We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game."
Oh great, another nerf for Stamina based builds! Haven't you kicked us in the balls enough lately with the changes you did with Siphoning Strikes?
That only affected nightblades not all stamina based builds. And it definitely needs a nerf
And that's usually your and ZOS's answer to class balance and counters, nerf every other class :P
So nerfing a skill that does close to the damage of a single target skill if not more and is also an execute is balanced? Where's the magicka version of that? You make it sounds like all you do is spin to win and now that they want to nerf it you're worried that you need some other abilities in your rotation
wigglesgaming26 wrote: »wigglesgaming26 wrote: »"We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game."
Oh great, another nerf for Stamina based builds! Haven't you kicked us in the balls enough lately with the changes you did with Siphoning Strikes?
That only affected nightblades not all stamina based builds. And it definitely needs a nerf
And that's usually your and ZOS's answer to class balance and counters, nerf every other class :P
So nerfing a skill that does close to the damage of a single target skill if not more and is also an execute is balanced? Where's the magicka version of that? You make it sounds like all you do is spin to win and now that they want to nerf it you're worried that you need some other abilities in your rotation
lol - Don't tell me, coming from a shield stacking, Crystal Frag spamming Sorc?
Only because of the AoE mechanic. Remove it from PvP except for siege and things would improve greatly on all fronts including performance.
WalkingLegacy wrote: »Only because of the AoE mechanic. Remove it from PvP except for siege and things would improve greatly on all fronts including performance during massive battles.
Organized groups calling targets and focusing fire on called targets as well as tactical maneuvers will allow outnumbered groups to have a chance. Skill and tactics actually come into play versus mindless AoE spamming.
Remove AoE and a looooot of people would quit the game. So, no thank you.
Leave the game? That's silly.
Combat is centered around AoE zerging. This needs to be rebalanced so that AoE is situational, not mindless throwing it out there spamming.
I agree as I have said in my earlier posts. Siege should only be the main source of mass AoE in Cyrodil.
A few days ago i saw on a death recap that i got hit for 5k by steel tornado. I'm using 5 heavy armour pieces and i had volatile armor up. My flame lash doesn't hit that hard, and it's not an AoE skill with huge radius like steel tornado.
I just logged off in disgust, and doubt i'll log back in anytime soon.
Without deto and steel tornado, ...
@Erondil
Crazy, but it seems some nb like to take down isolated targets on horses but they don't like to get hunted in return...Without deto and steel tornado, but overnumbered, well played.
yeah yeah sure... we play everynight without deto and tornadoe and then we have that magical x2 button: each time we wipe a loltornadoe warband, it gets magically "outnumbered". Rofl. Of course most of them would care to admit their deto+tornadoe uber lagsh.it did not win the day. Again.
[snip]
I am not sad only coz templar dps is trash anyway.Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Erondil
Crazy, but it seems some nb like to take down isolated targets on horses but they don't like to get hunted in return...
and yeah yeah sure... we play everynight without deto and tornadoe and then we have that magical x2 "we are 40" button: each time we wipe a loltornadoe warband, it gets magically "outnumbered". Rofl. Of course most of them would not care to admit their deto+tornadoe uber lagsh.it did not win the day. Again and again.Without deto and steel tornado, ...
[snip]
@Erondil
Crazy, but it seems some nb like to take down isolated targets on horses but they don't like to get hunted in return...Without deto and steel tornado, but overnumbered, well played.
yeah yeah sure... we play everynight without deto and tornadoe and then we have that magical x2 button: each time we wipe a loltornadoe warband, it gets magically "outnumbered". Rofl. Of course most of them would care to admit their deto+tornadoe uber lagsh.it did not win the day. Again.
[snip]
Last time I saw you using 4+ultimates for me I was on my sorc and you werent riding but anyway, its not very relevant. Also I dont see where I said I dont like to be hunted down by a whole group, actually I love it because it makes me feel important, and I always have a good laugh when I see an organized group using ultimates for one guy and yet not able to insta kill him.
If you think it was aimed to you personnally, then you know yourself you're guilty.
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
Wrobel wrote in this thread:
We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability. Part of the issue currently is that damaging PBAoE abilities are very powerful, and there are not a lot of effective options to combat this strategy from range. The two avenues of attack we are perusing are buffing siege weapons and investigating making ranged abilities more effective at damaging large groups of players.
Wheeler is making significant adjustments to siege weapons. You can view and comment on these new changes here. As siege already hits an unlimited number of targets and has an effective cooldown, it’s the perfect tool to get players to spread out.
On the ability side we’ve got a number of changes planned. PBAoE abilities such as Steel Tornado and purge are much too powerful and cause players to want to stack together to make sure they can all hit the same targets and be purged by the same ally. We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game. Also, we are reducing the initial damage of Magicka Detonation so it’s less effective vs a single target. To compensate, both the bonus damage per target and the max size of this bonus is increasing. In addition to this we’re looking into making other ranged class abilities deal effective AoE damage.
The implication is that they recognize PBAoE is already to strong and encourages stacking/blobbing. Thus they would not make it stronger by raising the caps. They have other solutions in mind for blob/stack busting that do not involve raising AoE caps.
Thankfully we have objective Devs looking out the best interests of the game for everyone versus some players that want to further increase their ability to mindless spam PBAoE and mow down large groups of players.
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
Wrobel wrote in this thread:
We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability. Part of the issue currently is that damaging PBAoE abilities are very powerful, and there are not a lot of effective options to combat this strategy from range. The two avenues of attack we are perusing are buffing siege weapons and investigating making ranged abilities more effective at damaging large groups of players.
Wheeler is making significant adjustments to siege weapons. You can view and comment on these new changes here. As siege already hits an unlimited number of targets and has an effective cooldown, it’s the perfect tool to get players to spread out.
On the ability side we’ve got a number of changes planned. PBAoE abilities such as Steel Tornado and purge are much too powerful and cause players to want to stack together to make sure they can all hit the same targets and be purged by the same ally. We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game. Also, we are reducing the initial damage of Magicka Detonation so it’s less effective vs a single target. To compensate, both the bonus damage per target and the max size of this bonus is increasing. In addition to this we’re looking into making other ranged class abilities deal effective AoE damage.
The implication is that they recognize PBAoE is already to strong and encourages stacking/blobbing. Thus they would not make it stronger by raising the caps. They have other solutions in mind for blob/stack busting that do not involve raising AoE caps.
Thankfully we have objective Devs looking out the best interests of the game for everyone versus some players that want to further increase their ability to mindless spam PBAoE and mow down large groups of players.
What you and many others don't understand (including @Wrobel ) is that the removal of dmg AoE caps will incentivize people to spread out. Right now a group of 24 is better of to stack so they can benefit from 37.5% damages reduction (its more mitigation than any ultimate of the game) with AoE smart heals (the 6 taking 100% damages will always be healed first). Now if you remove dmg AoE caps, those groups will want to spread out a bit more, to balance the damage increase. Thus, single target will become more important because an AoE wont hit more than 6 people as often as now. With a removal of AoE caps, you will most likely see AoE less used because people wont stack as much as now, and an AoE is not worth using if it hits less than 4 people.
I will repeat once again, dmg AoE doesnt encourage stacking alone, dmg AoE are meant to do the contrary (look at daoc) but the virtual 37.5% mitigation does. Simply because it makes AoE heals stronger than AoE damages.
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
Wrobel wrote in this thread:
We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability. Part of the issue currently is that damaging PBAoE abilities are very powerful, and there are not a lot of effective options to combat this strategy from range. The two avenues of attack we are perusing are buffing siege weapons and investigating making ranged abilities more effective at damaging large groups of players.
Wheeler is making significant adjustments to siege weapons. You can view and comment on these new changes here. As siege already hits an unlimited number of targets and has an effective cooldown, it’s the perfect tool to get players to spread out.
On the ability side we’ve got a number of changes planned. PBAoE abilities such as Steel Tornado and purge are much too powerful and cause players to want to stack together to make sure they can all hit the same targets and be purged by the same ally. We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game. Also, we are reducing the initial damage of Magicka Detonation so it’s less effective vs a single target. To compensate, both the bonus damage per target and the max size of this bonus is increasing. In addition to this we’re looking into making other ranged class abilities deal effective AoE damage.
The implication is that they recognize PBAoE is already to strong and encourages stacking/blobbing. Thus they would not make it stronger by raising the caps. They have other solutions in mind for blob/stack busting that do not involve raising AoE caps.
Thankfully we have objective Devs looking out the best interests of the game for everyone versus some players that want to further increase their ability to mindless spam PBAoE and mow down large groups of players.
What you and many others don't understand (including @Wrobel ) is that the removal of dmg AoE caps will incentivize people to spread out. Right now a group of 24 is better of to stack so they can benefit from 37.5% damages reduction (its more mitigation than any ultimate of the game) with AoE smart heals (the 6 taking 100% damages will always be healed first). Now if you remove dmg AoE caps, those groups will want to spread out a bit more, to balance the damage increase. Thus, single target will become more important because an AoE wont hit more than 6 people as often as now. With a removal of AoE caps, you will most likely see AoE less used because people wont stack as much as now, and an AoE is not worth using if it hits less than 4 people.
I will repeat once again, dmg AoE doesnt encourage stacking alone, dmg AoE are meant to do the contrary (look at daoc) but the virtual 37.5% mitigation does. Simply because it makes AoE heals stronger than AoE damages.
I've experienced games where PBAoE without caps has dominated PvP play. Everyone running around in bomb groups mindlessly spamming uncapped AoE ...rinse ....repeat...boring.
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
Wrobel wrote in this thread:
We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability. Part of the issue currently is that damaging PBAoE abilities are very powerful, and there are not a lot of effective options to combat this strategy from range. The two avenues of attack we are perusing are buffing siege weapons and investigating making ranged abilities more effective at damaging large groups of players.
Wheeler is making significant adjustments to siege weapons. You can view and comment on these new changes here. As siege already hits an unlimited number of targets and has an effective cooldown, it’s the perfect tool to get players to spread out.
On the ability side we’ve got a number of changes planned. PBAoE abilities such as Steel Tornado and purge are much too powerful and cause players to want to stack together to make sure they can all hit the same targets and be purged by the same ally. We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game. Also, we are reducing the initial damage of Magicka Detonation so it’s less effective vs a single target. To compensate, both the bonus damage per target and the max size of this bonus is increasing. In addition to this we’re looking into making other ranged class abilities deal effective AoE damage.
The implication is that they recognize PBAoE is already to strong and encourages stacking/blobbing. Thus they would not make it stronger by raising the caps. They have other solutions in mind for blob/stack busting that do not involve raising AoE caps.
Thankfully we have objective Devs looking out the best interests of the game for everyone versus some players that want to further increase their ability to mindless spam PBAoE and mow down large groups of players.
What you and many others don't understand (including @Wrobel ) is that the removal of dmg AoE caps will incentivize people to spread out. Right now a group of 24 is better of to stack so they can benefit from 37.5% damages reduction (its more mitigation than any ultimate of the game) with AoE smart heals (the 6 taking 100% damages will always be healed first). Now if you remove dmg AoE caps, those groups will want to spread out a bit more, to balance the damage increase. Thus, single target will become more important because an AoE wont hit more than 6 people as often as now. With a removal of AoE caps, you will most likely see AoE less used because people wont stack as much as now, and an AoE is not worth using if it hits less than 4 people.
I will repeat once again, dmg AoE doesnt encourage stacking alone, dmg AoE are meant to do the contrary (look at daoc) but the virtual 37.5% mitigation does. Simply because it makes AoE heals stronger than AoE damages.
I've experienced games where PBAoE without caps has dominated PvP play. Everyone running around in bomb groups mindlessly spamming uncapped AoE ...rinse ....repeat...boring.
Fortunately we dont have this today!
andypappb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I hate to break it to everyone, but @Wrobel has already answered us and he told us why AoE caps are staying. He just didn't do it explicitly.
@Joy_Division
I clearly Missed that..where/what did he say...
Wrobel wrote in this thread:
We want PvP fights to be tactical, involving player positioning as a key element of engagements. We don’t want 2 huge masses of players mindlessly bumping into each other while spamming 1 ability. Part of the issue currently is that damaging PBAoE abilities are very powerful, and there are not a lot of effective options to combat this strategy from range. The two avenues of attack we are perusing are buffing siege weapons and investigating making ranged abilities more effective at damaging large groups of players.
Wheeler is making significant adjustments to siege weapons. You can view and comment on these new changes here. As siege already hits an unlimited number of targets and has an effective cooldown, it’s the perfect tool to get players to spread out.
On the ability side we’ve got a number of changes planned. PBAoE abilities such as Steel Tornado and purge are much too powerful and cause players to want to stack together to make sure they can all hit the same targets and be purged by the same ally. We’ll be reducing the radius of Steel Tornado so it’s not so much more effective at dealing AoE damage relative to the other abilities in the game. Also, we are reducing the initial damage of Magicka Detonation so it’s less effective vs a single target. To compensate, both the bonus damage per target and the max size of this bonus is increasing. In addition to this we’re looking into making other ranged class abilities deal effective AoE damage.
The implication is that they recognize PBAoE is already to strong and encourages stacking/blobbing. Thus they would not make it stronger by raising the caps. They have other solutions in mind for blob/stack busting that do not involve raising AoE caps.
Thankfully we have objective Devs looking out the best interests of the game for everyone versus some players that want to further increase their ability to mindless spam PBAoE and mow down large groups of players.
What you and many others don't understand (including @Wrobel ) is that the removal of dmg AoE caps will incentivize people to spread out. Right now a group of 24 is better of to stack so they can benefit from 37.5% damages reduction (its more mitigation than any ultimate of the game) with AoE smart heals (the 6 taking 100% damages will always be healed first). Now if you remove dmg AoE caps, those groups will want to spread out a bit more, to balance the damage increase. Thus, single target will become more important because an AoE wont hit more than 6 people as often as now. With a removal of AoE caps, you will most likely see AoE less used because people wont stack as much as now, and an AoE is not worth using if it hits less than 4 people.
I will repeat once again, dmg AoE doesnt encourage stacking alone, dmg AoE are meant to do the contrary (look at daoc) but the virtual 37.5% mitigation does. Simply because it makes AoE heals stronger than AoE damages.
I've experienced games where PBAoE without caps has dominated PvP play. Everyone running around in bomb groups mindlessly spamming uncapped AoE ...rinse ....repeat...boring.
Fortunately we dont have this today!
The only true fun fights I have in this game right now are in the open field where AoE button mash groups can be mostly avoided. Inside enclosed areas well that's where the button mashing AoE lagfest hell starts.
Which is why I support the efforts of ZoS to tone down PBAoE mechanics as it is too strong already and not make it worse by simply removing the caps. I know you would like to just run around and kill even larger numbers of players faster with mindless AoE button mashing but thankfully it isn't going to happen.