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ZOS you hate Templars
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AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »Templars are the best healers in game.
They have one of the best skills ingame both aoe and single target and CC, the jabs.
This also have a stamina morph.
Stamina templars get extremly good stats, 6% wpn dmg and 10% more crit dmg.
Its unique.
Now lets look at my DK and change the title of this thread pls.
You make a valid point. Templar's are supposed to be the best healers, because of this the rest of our skills are a little weaker. So let's do what you asked and compare a Stamina Templar with a Stamina Dragon Knight.
Stamina Templar:
3 stamina morphs, only 2 of which are worthwhile. Biting Jabs and Binding Javelin. In exchange for this we lose all class heals as we can't stack magicka high enough to make them usable without losing all our dmg.
All of our healing passives ONLY work on Templar class heals which means our Rally/Vigor are baseline heals from the skill.
Dragon Knight:
The only thing you need to look at is the fact that Dragon Knight healing passives work on ALL HEALING SOURCES. This means Rally/Vigor are stronger than a Templar's. There are also more stamina morphs for DK than Templar.
Both Dragon Knight and Templar need work, I am not disputing that. But Templar is the only class which loses it's identity completely for choosing stamina. Both Stamina Sorc and DK having better healing options that Templar is not balance, especially since we give up AOE CC and DMG for our so called "healing skill".3 -
pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »rastadreadlion wrote: »NBs are usually very straightforward to beat if you keep yourself on the offensive. Here is another dirty trick - Cowards that they are, NBs like to vanish whenever their health starts to get low. Keep Quick Cloak up and don't let them get any distance. They won't be able to vanish and you will annihilate them.
Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads.
For shield stackers, you can always use shield-breaker.
Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet.
Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina.
The Problem was the jabs shield bug (or is it fixed now?) that didnt give the 140% dam bonus against shields.
So it was nearly impossible to break shields. And Shield-breaker is not an option an Magicka temp...
I stopped playing my temp because this bug. Is it still in game?
I'm not familiar with that bug, but the 140% damage bonus is only on the final strike of Jabs, so that shouldn't be a dealbreaker in a fight against a sorc. I run with something between 2.8 and 3.2k weapon damage in PvP and I can get through shields just fine. Perhaps you are running with less? If so I would try and drain the sorc's stamina instead.
0 -
OrphanHelgen wrote: »Templars are the best healers in game.
They have one of the best skills ingame both aoe and single target and CC, the jabs.
This also have a stamina morph.
Stamina templars get extremly good stats, 6% wpn dmg and 10% more crit dmg.
Its unique.
Now lets look at my DK and change the title of this thread pls.
You make a valid point. Templar's are supposed to be the best healers, because of this the rest of our skills are a little weaker. So let's do what you asked and compare a Stamina Templar with a Stamina Dragon Knight.
Stamina Templar:
3 stamina morphs, only 2 of which are worthwhile. Biting Jabs and Binding Javelin. In exchange for this we lose all class heals as we can't stack magicka high enough to make them usable without losing all our dmg.
All of our healing passives ONLY work on Templar class heals which means our Rally/Vigor are baseline heals from the skill.
Dragon Knight:
The only thing you need to look at is the fact that Dragon Knight healing passives work on ALL HEALING SOURCES. This means Rally/Vigor are stronger than a Templar's. There are also more stamina morphs for DK than Templar.
Both Dragon Knight and Templar need work, I am not disputing that. But Templar is the only class which loses it's identity completely for choosing stamina. Both Stamina Sorc and DK having better healing options that Templar is not balance, especially since we give up AOE CC and DMG for our so called "healing skill".
We have two very powerful sources of class healing as stamina templars - Repentence, which instantly restores the health !and stamina! of your entire group, and Remembrance, which can be cast up to 3 times in a row and makes your entire group unkillable for the duration in 90% of situations.0 -
rastadreadlion wrote: »NBs are usually very straightforward to beat if you keep yourself on the offensive. Here is another dirty trick - Cowards that they are, NBs like to vanish whenever their health starts to get low. Keep Quick Cloak up and don't let them get any distance. They won't be able to vanish and you will annihilate them.
Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads.
For shield stackers, you can always use shield-breaker.
Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet.
Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina.
So, u mean we have to change our entire bars just to counter 1 ort of enemy when there are thousand versions of them... we have to but no other class has to.
Ok, in that case we are the best class ever.
"Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina"
Reading this means to me that u never actually beat a good enemy.
"Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet."
would u mind telling me how exactly u burst or with WHAT???
"Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads. "
dude, tell me the truth.... u are not a templar and u only play on the no veteran campaign... this stuff is rediculous.
I give u the easiest comparison in terms of straight forwarding nightblades...
A good nightblade, as Blazemaster for instance will jump u in the face and bomb u with some 8k surprise attacks and more sustain than u will ever have. He has tons more regen and the cheaper abilities with the way better ult. He doesnt even need to vanish.
I duel since release and i have a nightblade, dk and templar but the templar was and is still my main.
The first time i logged into my nightblade when he arrived at max lvl... i did 1v3 without even knowing what i do.
As templar it was never easy to do that because our active abilities are not as good as nightblades passives for instance.
They get armor and spellresistance for using abilities that do other usefull things. They just have 15% allregg passive....
My aura does 10% and if i want the 20% version, it doesnt stack with pots and takes 1 slot away.
For the armor i use a skill that lasts 8 seconds when i leave a small circle with a 10meter radius and that also takes 1 slot from my bar.
Jabs cant burst a shield down and i dont even think about using 1 class ult because they all are the worst choices u can pick in the whole game, no other class would ever use one of them if they could.
The only passives we can use staminawise are only effective if u use jabs. Jabs open up ur defence entirely and if u think it does great damage, go compare it to a nightblade surprise attack combo skipping into ur face during jabs or a dk smashing u with wb and leaping into you with 30k dmg burst potential and also getting ressources back.
Sorc has the best escapeability and protection in the game, added up to awesome burst and good cc.
But yea, WHOHOOO, we can the 3k staminacost javelin and "let em die before they get back on their feet".
I need a drink now.
"So, u mean we have to change our entire bars just to counter 1 ort of enemy when there are thousand versions of them... we have to but no other class has to.
Ok, in that case we are the best class ever."
We don't have to change all of our bars, just add one skill which is useful against all magicka classes.
"would u mind telling me how exactly u burst or with WHAT???"
Gap closer or daggers and biting jabs weave with major brutality can do it quickly if you have enough weapon power. Aggressive Horn if someone in your group is kind enough to run it.
"Reading this means to me that u never actually beat a good enemy."
"dude, tell me the truth.... u are not a templar and u only play on the no veteran campaign... this stuff is rediculous."
I have used that tactic to wipe an Exile team. If you search for my name (@rastadreadlion) in our shared dueling guild you will see that I have a v16 Templar named Anjani. Home is Azura's, guest is Spellbreaker. He is parked in Maelstrom Arena at time of writing. I recognize your name and I think I have beaten you before but I can't remember really.
"They get armor and spellresistance for using abilities that do other usefull things."
We have that too, it's called Channeled Focus. If you don't like the 8 second duration, you can recast it or stay in the circle.
"The only passives we can use staminawise are only effective if u use jabs. Jabs open up ur defence entirely and if u think it does great damage, go compare it to a nightblade surprise attack combo skipping into ur face during jabs or a dk smashing u with wb and leaping into you with 30k dmg burst potential and also getting resources back."
I think you'll find in PvP that most experienced players voluntarily reduce their damage output in favour of defensibility and sustain, making the peak capacity of each class a matter for PvErs.
You can dodge/block Ferocious leap
"Jabs cant burst a shield down and i dont even think about using 1 class ult because they all are the worst choices u can pick in the whole game, no other class would ever use one of them if they could."
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but if you are criticizing our class ultimates, I would disagree and point to Remembrance as an I-win button in medium scale, Solar Prison as a 1/small group v X tool and Empowering Sweep as a 1vX sustain tool used to great effect in one of Kristofer's latest builds.
"I need a drink now."
I think what you need is to re-evaluate your life choices, son.0 -
DurzoBlint13✭✭✭✭
In PvP you need a well-rounded build that allows you to back yourself up against all 4 classes, against stamina and magicka. Simple as that. Cyrodiil isn't a 1v1 duel, where you get to change armor and skill setup peacefully while thinking strategies for next single encounter.
Exactly! And this is why Shield Braker is NOT a viable option. Its too narrow of a focus. You get much better DPS and sustainability with other sets. If it were a 3 pc set you could use on jewelry (thereby making it more useful and not as draining) and still get the higher numbers from other armor sets, I could see why shield stakers would complain. As it is now, it is only useful in a limited number of circumstances and not viable for a well rounded build.0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭rastadreadlion wrote: »OrphanHelgen wrote: »Templars are the best healers in game.
They have one of the best skills ingame both aoe and single target and CC, the jabs.
This also have a stamina morph.
Stamina templars get extremly good stats, 6% wpn dmg and 10% more crit dmg.
Its unique.
Now lets look at my DK and change the title of this thread pls.
You make a valid point. Templar's are supposed to be the best healers, because of this the rest of our skills are a little weaker. So let's do what you asked and compare a Stamina Templar with a Stamina Dragon Knight.
Stamina Templar:
3 stamina morphs, only 2 of which are worthwhile. Biting Jabs and Binding Javelin. In exchange for this we lose all class heals as we can't stack magicka high enough to make them usable without losing all our dmg.
All of our healing passives ONLY work on Templar class heals which means our Rally/Vigor are baseline heals from the skill.
Dragon Knight:
The only thing you need to look at is the fact that Dragon Knight healing passives work on ALL HEALING SOURCES. This means Rally/Vigor are stronger than a Templar's. There are also more stamina morphs for DK than Templar.
Both Dragon Knight and Templar need work, I am not disputing that. But Templar is the only class which loses it's identity completely for choosing stamina. Both Stamina Sorc and DK having better healing options that Templar is not balance, especially since we give up AOE CC and DMG for our so called "healing skill".
We have two very powerful sources of class healing as stamina templars - Repentence, which instantly restores the health !and stamina! of your entire group, and Remembrance, which can be cast up to 3 times in a row and makes your entire group unkillable for the duration in 90% of situations.
What are you smoking? Remembrance is an Ultimate....you can't use it 3 times in a row and you can still be killed using it lol. You pvp right? Repentance is terrible in anything except large scale pvp, it's too unreliable because it requires bodies to do anything at all not to mention you're wasting a slot on it that could go to a defensive utility.
You also ignored my whole point which is that Magicka Templar does everything a Stamina Templar can do but BETTER. There is no reason to chose stamina templar except personal preference, it has no pros to choosing it over magicka templar only cons.
P.S. You are also wrong about Jabs. You get the full dmg bonus on all four strikes EXCEPT against shields. It's bugged to not work at all against shields.Edited by AfkNinja on December 15, 2015 8:32PM1 -
Abob✭✭✭rastadreadlion wrote: »rastadreadlion wrote: »NBs are usually very straightforward to beat if you keep yourself on the offensive. Here is another dirty trick - Cowards that they are, NBs like to vanish whenever their health starts to get low. Keep Quick Cloak up and don't let them get any distance. They won't be able to vanish and you will annihilate them.
Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads.
For shield stackers, you can always use shield-breaker.
Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet.
Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina.
So, u mean we have to change our entire bars just to counter 1 ort of enemy when there are thousand versions of them... we have to but no other class has to.
Ok, in that case we are the best class ever.
"Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina"
Reading this means to me that u never actually beat a good enemy.
"Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet."
would u mind telling me how exactly u burst or with WHAT???
"Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads. "
dude, tell me the truth.... u are not a templar and u only play on the no veteran campaign... this stuff is rediculous.
I give u the easiest comparison in terms of straight forwarding nightblades...
A good nightblade, as Blazemaster for instance will jump u in the face and bomb u with some 8k surprise attacks and more sustain than u will ever have. He has tons more regen and the cheaper abilities with the way better ult. He doesnt even need to vanish.
I duel since release and i have a nightblade, dk and templar but the templar was and is still my main.
The first time i logged into my nightblade when he arrived at max lvl... i did 1v3 without even knowing what i do.
As templar it was never easy to do that because our active abilities are not as good as nightblades passives for instance.
They get armor and spellresistance for using abilities that do other usefull things. They just have 15% allregg passive....
My aura does 10% and if i want the 20% version, it doesnt stack with pots and takes 1 slot away.
For the armor i use a skill that lasts 8 seconds when i leave a small circle with a 10meter radius and that also takes 1 slot from my bar.
Jabs cant burst a shield down and i dont even think about using 1 class ult because they all are the worst choices u can pick in the whole game, no other class would ever use one of them if they could.
The only passives we can use staminawise are only effective if u use jabs. Jabs open up ur defence entirely and if u think it does great damage, go compare it to a nightblade surprise attack combo skipping into ur face during jabs or a dk smashing u with wb and leaping into you with 30k dmg burst potential and also getting ressources back.
Sorc has the best escapeability and protection in the game, added up to awesome burst and good cc.
But yea, WHOHOOO, we can the 3k staminacost javelin and "let em die before they get back on their feet".
I need a drink now.
"So, u mean we have to change our entire bars just to counter 1 ort of enemy when there are thousand versions of them... we have to but no other class has to.
Ok, in that case we are the best class ever."
We don't have to change all of our bars, just add one skill which is useful against all magicka classes.
"would u mind telling me how exactly u burst or with WHAT???"
Gap closer or daggers and biting jabs weave with major brutality can do it quickly if you have enough weapon power. Aggressive Horn if someone in your group is kind enough to run it.
"Reading this means to me that u never actually beat a good enemy."
"dude, tell me the truth.... u are not a templar and u only play on the no veteran campaign... this stuff is rediculous."
I have used that tactic to wipe an Exile team. If you search for my name (@rastadreadlion) in our shared dueling guild you will see that I have a v16 Templar named Anjani. Home is Azura's, guest is Spellbreaker. He is parked in Maelstrom Arena at time of writing. I recognize your name and I think I have beaten you before but I can't remember really.
"They get armor and spellresistance for using abilities that do other usefull things."
We have that too, it's called Channeled Focus. If you don't like the 8 second duration, you can recast it or stay in the circle.
"The only passives we can use staminawise are only effective if u use jabs. Jabs open up ur defence entirely and if u think it does great damage, go compare it to a nightblade surprise attack combo skipping into ur face during jabs or a dk smashing u with wb and leaping into you with 30k dmg burst potential and also getting resources back."
I think you'll find in PvP that most experienced players voluntarily reduce their damage output in favour of defensibility and sustain, making the peak capacity of each class a matter for PvErs.
You can dodge/block Ferocious leap
"Jabs cant burst a shield down and i dont even think about using 1 class ult because they all are the worst choices u can pick in the whole game, no other class would ever use one of them if they could."
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but if you are criticizing our class ultimates, I would disagree and point to Remembrance as an I-win button in medium scale, Solar Prison as a 1/small group v X tool and Empowering Sweep as a 1vX sustain tool used to great effect in one of Kristofer's latest builds.
"I need a drink now."
I think what you need is to re-evaluate your life choices, son.
Could you upload a video defeating Mumyo in a templar vs templar fight?
-Keldurn1 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭rastadreadlion wrote: »rastadreadlion wrote: »NBs are usually very straightforward to beat if you keep yourself on the offensive. Here is another dirty trick - Cowards that they are, NBs like to vanish whenever their health starts to get low. Keep Quick Cloak up and don't let them get any distance. They won't be able to vanish and you will annihilate them.
Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads.
For shield stackers, you can always use shield-breaker.
Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet.
Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina.
So, u mean we have to change our entire bars just to counter 1 ort of enemy when there are thousand versions of them... we have to but no other class has to.
Ok, in that case we are the best class ever.
"Alternatively, maintain Eclipse on break free CD until they run out of stamina"
Reading this means to me that u never actually beat a good enemy.
"Alternatively, once you burst your way through their shields and their health starts to decrease, that is their que to reapply shields. Use Binding Javelin before this happens and they will die before they are back on their feet."
would u mind telling me how exactly u burst or with WHAT???
"Inner Light (on one bar, not two) plus detect potions and Way of Air is how to counter NB/DK Vampire 1 hit kill gank squads. "
dude, tell me the truth.... u are not a templar and u only play on the no veteran campaign... this stuff is rediculous.
I give u the easiest comparison in terms of straight forwarding nightblades...
A good nightblade, as Blazemaster for instance will jump u in the face and bomb u with some 8k surprise attacks and more sustain than u will ever have. He has tons more regen and the cheaper abilities with the way better ult. He doesnt even need to vanish.
I duel since release and i have a nightblade, dk and templar but the templar was and is still my main.
The first time i logged into my nightblade when he arrived at max lvl... i did 1v3 without even knowing what i do.
As templar it was never easy to do that because our active abilities are not as good as nightblades passives for instance.
They get armor and spellresistance for using abilities that do other usefull things. They just have 15% allregg passive....
My aura does 10% and if i want the 20% version, it doesnt stack with pots and takes 1 slot away.
For the armor i use a skill that lasts 8 seconds when i leave a small circle with a 10meter radius and that also takes 1 slot from my bar.
Jabs cant burst a shield down and i dont even think about using 1 class ult because they all are the worst choices u can pick in the whole game, no other class would ever use one of them if they could.
The only passives we can use staminawise are only effective if u use jabs. Jabs open up ur defence entirely and if u think it does great damage, go compare it to a nightblade surprise attack combo skipping into ur face during jabs or a dk smashing u with wb and leaping into you with 30k dmg burst potential and also getting ressources back.
Sorc has the best escapeability and protection in the game, added up to awesome burst and good cc.
But yea, WHOHOOO, we can the 3k staminacost javelin and "let em die before they get back on their feet".
I need a drink now.
"So, u mean we have to change our entire bars just to counter 1 ort of enemy when there are thousand versions of them... we have to but no other class has to.
Ok, in that case we are the best class ever."
We don't have to change all of our bars, just add one skill which is useful against all magicka classes.
"would u mind telling me how exactly u burst or with WHAT???"
Gap closer or daggers and biting jabs weave with major brutality can do it quickly if you have enough weapon power. Aggressive Horn if someone in your group is kind enough to run it.
"Reading this means to me that u never actually beat a good enemy."
"dude, tell me the truth.... u are not a templar and u only play on the no veteran campaign... this stuff is rediculous."
I have used that tactic to wipe an Exile team. If you search for my name (@rastadreadlion) in our shared dueling guild you will see that I have a v16 Templar named Anjani. Home is Azura's, guest is Spellbreaker. He is parked in Maelstrom Arena at time of writing. I recognize your name and I think I have beaten you before but I can't remember really.
"They get armor and spellresistance for using abilities that do other usefull things."
We have that too, it's called Channeled Focus. If you don't like the 8 second duration, you can recast it or stay in the circle.
"The only passives we can use staminawise are only effective if u use jabs. Jabs open up ur defence entirely and if u think it does great damage, go compare it to a nightblade surprise attack combo skipping into ur face during jabs or a dk smashing u with wb and leaping into you with 30k dmg burst potential and also getting resources back."
I think you'll find in PvP that most experienced players voluntarily reduce their damage output in favour of defensibility and sustain, making the peak capacity of each class a matter for PvErs.
You can dodge/block Ferocious leap
"Jabs cant burst a shield down and i dont even think about using 1 class ult because they all are the worst choices u can pick in the whole game, no other class would ever use one of them if they could."
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but if you are criticizing our class ultimates, I would disagree and point to Remembrance as an I-win button in medium scale, Solar Prison as a 1/small group v X tool and Empowering Sweep as a 1vX sustain tool used to great effect in one of Kristofer's latest builds.
"I need a drink now."
I think what you need is to re-evaluate your life choices, son.
What are you smoking mate.... Remembrance is an ok skill when in a group. Solar prison will always be a poor man's standard and empowering sweep is a horrible ultimate completely outclasses by dawnbreaker, you just don't use this ult for anything. It doesn't hit half the time and you actually get less damage if you stop casting jabs to use this crap of an ultimate. And how is it used to a great effect on his build? He doesn't even slot jabs/wreckin blow. That build will only beat newbs. If you know what you're doing you'll never use any class ultimate on a stamplar. Dawnbreaker main bar, meteor/batswarm off hand.1