Passive Skill Slotting as a Balance Solution?

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2015

I've been thinking for some time how hard it has to be to balance all of the skills that exist between classes and among class builds as well weapon, mages guild, fighters, etc. One of the problems with the passives system as it currently exists is that we keep piling on new passives as time progresses. Our active skills make us choose our build, but passives have a way of continually making us stronger and stronger. I believe it also makes it harder for balance between passives and skill sets to exist. Secret World resolved much of this problem by forcing players to slot passive skills into a passive tray. I think 5 passives would be too few for ESO, but I'm sure some reasonable number could be concocted for this. If we had to pick and choose what passives we slot, I think ZoS could control the balance of the game a lot more easily. There could even be more than one tray for different uses, like you could only have 5 slotted 'utility' passives, or 'damage' passives, or 'mitigation' passives or such. Take the legerdemain skill for instance. You might have all passives filled with your skill points, but perhaps you only use the bulk of them while you're going on your thieving run. When you head to cyrodiil you'd pull some of those passives off in favor of some of your fighters guild passives. That's the core of the idea.

eNumbra · December 2015

no.

Spliffo · December 2015

No

Emma_Overload · December 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

So to use passives skills you need a skill of said tree slotted.... Sorry no.

But side note Flawless Dawnbreaker needs this though just like Vampires and Were-Wolves. Cause a huge passive increases to weapon power for just having a skill slotted just shows more of the huge gap between DPS and tanking.

Lenikus · December 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

But side note Flawless Dawnbreaker needs this though just like Vampires and Were-Wolves. Cause a huge passive increases to weapon power for just having a skill slotted just shows more of the huge gap between DPS and tanking.

.... 7% is not that much.
It helps, sure, on most builds it goes like...250 extra weapon damage, wich is sooper OP, but if you consider all the possible other ultimates one could have in a dps bar, the exchange of a very situational one (vamp/daedra mostly) that slightly buffs you does make a reasonable choice, other than, you know, Soul Tether, or even Take Flight, or freaking radial sweep (okay maybe not radial sweep)

Dubhliam · December 2015

I actually like the "think outside of the box" thinking, but I don't see this happening.

Too much time spent searching for skyshards and completing quests and Public dungeons just to have to "choose" which passives to make effective?

Not gonna happen.

DannyLV702 · December 2015

hmmmmmmmmmmmm NO

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2015

My response to the 'No' responses is that you people can do better than that. I'm fine with folks not liking the concept, but you should at least state your reasons or the forum is a waste of time. I don't want your no opinion, when the why is more important. I'm simply thinking of ways they could potentially keep the game balanced as it grows, which I think should be important to everyone. How they go about it is another issue altogether. TSW and STO use a similar passive system (and I've seen this in other games) and its a good way to internally balance how powerful we get. It forces at-the-moment design choices for your character, so you can't do all and be all with your passives. The reality is that if we do get spellcrafting, with the current design I foresee everyone going Sorcerer, and that would be a shame. You just can't pass up the 5%/5%/15% cost reduction as well as 10%/20%/20% regeneration that this class gets. It would make Sorc by far the most universally functional class. Please don't get me wrong I realy like my Sorcs. I have 4 vet sorcs, one of which is vet 16. I don't think it should be the only class to play when Spellcrafting comes out though (I could foresee DK's potentially getting a little traction with Fire based spells, and ultimates like Flame Atronach), and NB getting some use from muffle. Templar would probably be the 2nd best with its 4%/4%/4% cost reduction.

I just want ZoS to clamp down on the balance of the game before it gets really out of control. That's the goal, and this idea was just a spitball solution. The problem I see, moving forward is the way passives work right now. If/When they release spellcrafting it could completely upend the game unless they rethink the class passives or work a system like I'm suggesting.

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

It's when you say stuff like "well this game had this so I think it'd be a good addition here" that kind of ruins the idea's credibility.

As it stands now very few passives actually require you only activate them to use them indefinitely, which includes passives from Fighter's Guild, Undaunted, Class Skill Lines, and Legerdemain. Soul Summons and Soul Lock also apply but are not directly combat related lol unless you consider a free res once an hour combat related

Weapon Passives all require you use said Weapon.
Armor Passives all require you wear at least 1 or 5 pieces of that armor type.
Mage's Guild Passives all require you slot a skill to use them.
Werewolf and Vampire you need to be them to use, and if I'm not mistaken you need a Vampire skill slotted to use them?
Alliance War Passives require you be in Cyrodiil and/or actively involved in Sieges somehow.
Crafting Passives have some that can be useful in combat but consider those rewards for getting your craft up and investing in it

So as you can see plenty of Passives in this game do require you actually use the related Skill Line somehow or have some other requirement. That being said, probably wouldn't kill anyone if all skills had a requirement instead of just most... or would it? Dun dun dunnn!

Waseem · December 2015

how about no.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It's when you say stuff like "well this game had this so I think it'd be a good addition here" that kind of ruins the idea's credibility.

As it stands now very few passives actually require you only activate them to use them indefinitely, which includes passives from Fighter's Guild, Undaunted, Class Skill Lines, and Legerdemain. Soul Summons and Soul Lock also apply but are not directly combat related lol unless you consider a free res once an hour combat related

Weapon Passives all require you use said Weapon.
Armor Passives all require you wear at least 1 or 5 pieces of that armor type.
Mage's Guild Passives all require you slot a skill to use them.
Werewolf and Vampire you need to be them to use, and if I'm not mistaken you need a Vampire skill slotted to use them?
Alliance War Passives require you be in Cyrodiil and/or actively involved in Sieges somehow.
Crafting Passives have some that can be useful in combat but consider those rewards for getting your craft up and investing in it

So as you can see plenty of Passives in this game do require you actually use the related Skill Line somehow or have some other requirement. That being said, probably wouldn't kill anyone if all skills had a requirement instead of just most... or would it? Dun dun dunnn!

This is where some classes fare better than others. Some classes have to slot specific skills to get a needed bonus for recovery/regen/max-stat. Other classes walk around with those bonuses innately. I can see where you are coming from that I shouldn't compare directly to another game, except I'm not thinking about the game as it currently exists, but how the game is developing. Presumably we have two skill lines coming up with the release of Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild. What's to say there won't be more? What about Spellcrafting? As time passes my concern is that certain classes will clearly have an excessive advantage. Spellcrafting, a system meant to be for everyone, if it were released today would get far more use from a Sorcerer than it would from any other class. I think that would be bad design. I want there to be Spellcrafting, because it would not only go a long way toward making this game feel like TES, but it would be a fun system for we the players to work on. I personally feel ZoS needs to take a hard look at Class Passives in particular. I can live with them leaving things as they are, but they still need to reconsider how class passives work in the current paradigm. Example: The entire Restoring Light tree is only useful within itself. Other class lines are either completely useful whether you slot or use the class skill or not, or partially useful. This will directly cause imbalance. I'm not really sure why people can't understand that.

I've got a pretty thick skin, I'm fine with people not liking the idea, but I would appreciate it if people tackled the problem that I'm proposing, which is the trajectory of balance (and fun) in the forward development of this game. Clearly some classes will get far more mileage out of upcoming skill lines than others, and I definitely think that is an issue.

ADarklore · December 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

My response to the 'No' responses is that you people can do better than that.

My response to your post is NO... and the reason is because I like the game as it is and don't believe this needs to be changed.