(Pandoras Box) Since PvPers will be able to skip PvE to get gear...

dsalter · December 2015

k2blader wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Correct. AP OR Gold will be usable to purchase the items on the merchant. To also be clear, it will not be a combination of both to purchase an item. EG. If you want a Lord Warden Shoulder piece (or any of the gear that appears on the merchant) you will spend either AP or gold, but not AP + Gold.

hopefully the pvp ones are impenetrable traited as per usual with pvp purchases so that if min maxers really wanna get the best they do the pve

No.

Hopefully not because if they do that it'll favor certain builds over others.

the pattern has held for a long time dating even before IC, if it's not from the RNG it usually has Impen to compensate for it's ease of access

Zinaroth · December 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

passives and skills no sorry but gear well would be fair. Monster helms for AP the PvP gear for gold.

I agree with your sentiment but PvEers don't make gold from doing what they like whereas PvPers get alliance points for doing what they like. The notion that PvEers have lots of gold from doing what they like is a myth. The reason some people have a lot of gold is because they are farming high value items. I wouldn't really label grinding of mobs together with doing dungeons and raiding which is what most PvEers enjoy.

I am however honestly fine with them adding this vendor aslong as they make the items BoP, and not BoE as they discussed on ESO live, unless they make the drops BoE aswell. That along with the gear appearing with random traits each week will make it so I have no personal gripe with PvPers obtaining them for gold or alliance points.

However I would have preferred if they just made them all BoE so we PvEers could enjoy makig some gold off of what we do and we all could benefit from a free market. The only difference being that you would be buying it from a guild store instead of an NPC.

k2blader · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Please please consider the differences between magicka and stamina builds and class-build playstyle impacts when you decide...... thank you.........

Jaronking · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Please make it BOE and please make sure their no well fitted pieces and study pieces that's just a waste of everyone time.

Paulington · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Okay, and is just shoulders or helms too?

SirDopey · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

LOL its all going to be STURDY!!!!!

dsalter · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

mkay but i'm hoping due to the ease of access you'll stand by the usual impenetrable, as IC sets and before have shown, impen on sets you get to choose rather than play the RNG game is a decent trait for pvp until worked on for an upgrade, also no training please, we know it's the RNG's sign we all need to learn more but it's just harsh

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Based on how I understand this...you're understanding is that a PvP player should not have any option to obtain dungeon gear or certain sets unless they PvE....
OR
Unless the PvE content offers PvP items and sets.

In my perspective...and this could be totally the wrong way of looking at it, but Imperial City allows a PvE player to stay in a group and gather a lot of tokens to buy the PvP stuff in the sewers.

I guess other than that, a PvE player cant really get PvP items but to be honest, I'm a 90% PvE player and I'm in no way interested in PvP skills or gear. I don't see why this is an issue

@NewBlacksmurf The issue is that PvE undaunted gear (engine guardian, molag kena) is practically required to be competitive in PvP and vice-versa PvP skills required to be good for PvE especially for stamina builds. PvPers can now get the normally locked behind PvE competitive gear without PvE but as of now there is no equivalent unlock for PvE players, it is the fact that they got their wish 100% while PvE players don't get theirs that brought this up.

Also: why do PvPers who NEVER PvE get so hell bent out of shape when PvEers ask for PvP stuff yet when the option for PvP only people to get stuff gated behind PvE gets suggested few so much as bat an eye?

In response, a similar argument can apply and have been made prior to the last DLC's and VR increases to PvE items.
I think the response is premature or irrational as we all experience change and for certain periods of time (some longer than others) gear and items are coveted as best in slot for certain builds.

later more changes or DLC hit and its no longer the case.

I think the logical reaction is to open yourself to obtaining the gear that best fits your builds based on the availability whether that is PvE or PvP.

Cuyler · December 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

passives and skills no sorry but gear well would be fair. Monster helms for AP the PvP gear for gold.

F the PvP gear I want to purchase undaunted gear for gold if PvPers can purchase with AP. THAT's only fair.

robkrush wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Buying undaunted gear for AP is essentially a token system for PvP only that allows you to bypass the *** rng in this game and straight purchase gear. Let's get a comparable token system for PvE.

I can't go anywhere to purchase undaunted gear in PvE with my gold? BS

Now that is a great idea.

I had to double check but What Brian said on the last Live show was the merchants would be selling for either AP or gold.

It was at about 1:09.

So pass the word around.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Correct. AP OR Gold will be usable to purchase the items on the merchant. To also be clear, it will not be a combination of both to purchase an item. EG. If you want a Lord Warden Shoulder piece (or any of the gear that appears on the merchant) you will spend either AP or gold, but not AP + Gold.

Thank you

SirDopey · December 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

passives and skills no sorry but gear well would be fair. Monster helms for AP the PvP gear for gold.

I agree with your sentiment but PvEers don't make gold from doing what they like whereas PvPers get alliance points for doing what they like. The notion that PvEers have lots of gold from doing what they like is a myth. The reason some people have a lot of gold is because they are farming high value items. I wouldn't really label grinding of mobs together with doing dungeons and raiding which is what most PvEers enjoy.

I am however honestly fine with them adding this vendor aslong as they make the items BoP, and not BoE as they discussed on ESO live, unless they make the drops BoE aswell. That along with the gear appearing with random traits each week will make it so I have no personal gripe with PvPers obtaining them for gold or alliance points.

However I would have preferred if they just made them all BoE so we PvEers could enjoy makig some gold off of what we do and we all could benefit from a free market. The only difference being that you would be buying it from a guild store instead of an NPC.

The notion that ALL PVPers are getting a ton of AP from doing what they like is a myth. Not everyone runs in massive zerg balls farming AP......

k2blader · December 2015

dsalter wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Correct. AP OR Gold will be usable to purchase the items on the merchant. To also be clear, it will not be a combination of both to purchase an item. EG. If you want a Lord Warden Shoulder piece (or any of the gear that appears on the merchant) you will spend either AP or gold, but not AP + Gold.

hopefully the pvp ones are impenetrable traited as per usual with pvp purchases so that if min maxers really wanna get the best they do the pve

No.

Hopefully not because if they do that it'll favor certain builds over others.

the pattern has held for a long time dating even before IC, if it's not from the RNG it usually has Impen to compensate for it's ease of access

Only certain build will want some impen. It would be a very biased system to only have pieces with impen.

Now, if Zeni were to buff impen such that it was the trait for PvP across the board for all builds, magicka and stamina, it'd be different.

Glarin · December 2015

Um what? You're comparing gear to skills that doesn't make any sense. PvPers still have to do pledges and dungeons to get the undaunted passives just like you have to PvP if you want the Alliance War skills.

ks888 · December 2015

No. You want PvP skill lines, do the work. As someone who spends 90% of my game time in Cyro, I worked for my Proxy Det, Vigor, Barrier, etc. If you want the skills, earn them. The same applies to me, in the case of the Mages Guild, Fighters Guild and Undaunted skill lines. I had to commit some time to PvE to attain those, even if it's not really my thing. So yeah, I respectfully call bs on this post.

Sharee · December 2015

k2blader wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Correct. AP OR Gold will be usable to purchase the items on the merchant. To also be clear, it will not be a combination of both to purchase an item. EG. If you want a Lord Warden Shoulder piece (or any of the gear that appears on the merchant) you will spend either AP or gold, but not AP + Gold.

hopefully the pvp ones are impenetrable traited as per usual with pvp purchases so that if min maxers really wanna get the best they do the pve

No.

Hopefully not because if they do that it'll favor certain builds over others.

the pattern has held for a long time dating even before IC, if it's not from the RNG it usually has Impen to compensate for it's ease of access

Only certain build will want some impen. It would be a very biased system to only have pieces with impen.

Now, if Zeni were to buff impen such that it was the trait for PvP across the board for all builds, magicka and stamina, it'd be different.

Ideally, ZOS could allow maxed crafters to reforge traits on gear... oh, one can dream, no?

MissBizz · December 2015

Jaronking wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Please make it BOE and please make sure their no well fitted pieces and study pieces that's just a waste of everyone time.

@Jaronking So the training trait across the board on all those pieces would be cool with you?

Preyfar · December 2015

The IC update took away PVPer's choices to spend AP when the grab bags were left at VR14. We've not had anything worth spending AP on for some time (Akavari motif aside, I'd pay 500K for a full book, but not JUST for chests. Faction armor? Yes. Akaviri? No.).

This gives the PVP community a reason to spend AP and have something TO spend money on. Getting 500K AP is a lot of work, let alone a million. Yeah, some players rack it up more easily than others, but these are also people who are on 24/7. They could just as well do helms running undaunted pledges non-stop (some of the Vet dungeons take no more than 20 minutes).

Still... the PVP community got the shaft with our only PVP update. This is a good thing long term.

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Based on how I understand this...you're understanding is that a PvP player should not have any option to obtain dungeon gear or certain sets unless they PvE....
OR
Unless the PvE content offers PvP items and sets.

In my perspective...and this could be totally the wrong way of looking at it, but Imperial City allows a PvE player to stay in a group and gather a lot of tokens to buy the PvP stuff in the sewers.

I guess other than that, a PvE player cant really get PvP items but to be honest, I'm a 90% PvE player and I'm in no way interested in PvP skills or gear. I don't see why this is an issue

@NewBlacksmurf The issue is that PvE undaunted gear (engine guardian, molag kena) is practically required to be competitive in PvP and vice-versa PvP skills required to be good for PvE especially for stamina builds. PvPers can now get the normally locked behind PvE competitive gear without PvE but as of now there is no equivalent unlock for PvE players, it is the fact that they got their wish 100% while PvE players don't get theirs that brought this up.

Also: why do PvPers who NEVER PvE get so hell bent out of shape when PvEers ask for PvP stuff yet when the option for PvP only people to get stuff gated behind PvE gets suggested few so much as bat an eye?

In response, a similar argument can apply and have been made prior to the last DLC's and VR increases to PvE items.
I think the response is premature or irrational as we all experience change and for certain periods of time (some longer than others) gear and items are coveted as best in slot for certain builds.

later more changes or DLC hit and its no longer the case.

I think the logical reaction is to open yourself to obtaining the gear that best fits your builds based on the availability whether that is PvE or PvP.

I am trying the best I can at that and my gear works out well but I am often finding myself in situations where I am like *** if only I had blank (usually caltrops or barrier) I could do so much better.

Also just so you know I am NOT opposed to PvE gear being buyable I just want some equivalent for PvP exclusive stuff in addition.

Jaronking · December 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Please make it BOE and please make sure their no well fitted pieces and study pieces that's just a waste of everyone time.

@Jaronking So the training trait across the board on all those pieces would be cool with you?

Man it's better than Running a Dungeon75 times and getting nothing at all hell yea I'll take training.I'll start leveling light armor.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Based on how I understand this...you're understanding is that a PvP player should not have any option to obtain dungeon gear or certain sets unless they PvE....
OR
Unless the PvE content offers PvP items and sets.

In my perspective...and this could be totally the wrong way of looking at it, but Imperial City allows a PvE player to stay in a group and gather a lot of tokens to buy the PvP stuff in the sewers.

I guess other than that, a PvE player cant really get PvP items but to be honest, I'm a 90% PvE player and I'm in no way interested in PvP skills or gear. I don't see why this is an issue

@NewBlacksmurf The issue is that PvE undaunted gear (engine guardian, molag kena) is practically required to be competitive in PvP and vice-versa PvP skills required to be good for PvE especially for stamina builds. PvPers can now get the normally locked behind PvE competitive gear without PvE but as of now there is no equivalent unlock for PvE players, it is the fact that they got their wish 100% while PvE players don't get theirs that brought this up.

Also: why do PvPers who NEVER PvE get so hell bent out of shape when PvEers ask for PvP stuff yet when the option for PvP only people to get stuff gated behind PvE gets suggested few so much as bat an eye?

In response, a similar argument can apply and have been made prior to the last DLC's and VR increases to PvE items.
I think the response is premature or irrational as we all experience change and for certain periods of time (some longer than others) gear and items are coveted as best in slot for certain builds.

later more changes or DLC hit and its no longer the case.

I think the logical reaction is to open yourself to obtaining the gear that best fits your builds based on the availability whether that is PvE or PvP.

I am trying the best I can at that and my gear works out well but I am often finding myself in situations where I am like *** if only I had blank (usually caltrops or barrier) I could do so much better.

Also just so you know I am NOT opposed to PvE gear being buyable I just want some equivalent for PvP exclusive stuff in addition.

Gotcha....it is what it is for now...
I'm a PvE guy who likes to craft my own gear and I feel like the VR16 mat amounts are ridiculous compared to how likely someone is to get loot from VR difficulty runs but...yeah....

I just hope they chill with this and remove VR because as it's going, this will have a lasting outcome if they try to move VR level requirements to a CP level requirement.

leepalmer95 · December 2015

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Based on how I understand this...you're understanding is that a PvP player should not have any option to obtain dungeon gear or certain sets unless they PvE....
OR
Unless the PvE content offers PvP items and sets.

In my perspective...and this could be totally the wrong way of looking at it, but Imperial City allows a PvE player to stay in a group and gather a lot of tokens to buy the PvP stuff in the sewers.

I guess other than that, a PvE player cant really get PvP items but to be honest, I'm a 90% PvE player and I'm in no way interested in PvP skills or gear. I don't see why this is an issue

@NewBlacksmurf The issue is that PvE undaunted gear (engine guardian, molag kena) is practically required to be competitive in PvP and vice-versa PvP skills required to be good for PvE especially for stamina builds. PvPers can now get the normally locked behind PvE competitive gear without PvE but as of now there is no equivalent unlock for PvE players, it is the fact that they got their wish 100% while PvE players don't get theirs that brought this up.

Also: why do PvPers who NEVER PvE get so hell bent out of shape when PvEers ask for PvP stuff yet when the option for PvP only people to get stuff gated behind PvE gets suggested few so much as bat an eye?

In response, a similar argument can apply and have been made prior to the last DLC's and VR increases to PvE items.
I think the response is premature or irrational as we all experience change and for certain periods of time (some longer than others) gear and items are coveted as best in slot for certain builds.

later more changes or DLC hit and its no longer the case.

I think the logical reaction is to open yourself to obtaining the gear that best fits your builds based on the availability whether that is PvE or PvP.

I am trying the best I can at that and my gear works out well but I am often finding myself in situations where I am like *** if only I had blank (usually caltrops or barrier) I could do so much better.

Also just so you know I am NOT opposed to PvE gear being buyable I just want some equivalent for PvP exclusive stuff in addition.

Most pve gear is just rng were as the pvp skill lines takes hours upon hours of work. The skill lines are a lot harder to get than gear.

Isn't the loot going to be randomised? random set pieces, random traits, twice a week? It's not like the pvper's can just buy whatever they want they have to pray to RNJesus as well.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Based on how I understand this...you're understanding is that a PvP player should not have any option to obtain dungeon gear or certain sets unless they PvE....
OR
Unless the PvE content offers PvP items and sets.

In my perspective...and this could be totally the wrong way of looking at it, but Imperial City allows a PvE player to stay in a group and gather a lot of tokens to buy the PvP stuff in the sewers.

I guess other than that, a PvE player cant really get PvP items but to be honest, I'm a 90% PvE player and I'm in no way interested in PvP skills or gear. I don't see why this is an issue

@NewBlacksmurf The issue is that PvE undaunted gear (engine guardian, molag kena) is practically required to be competitive in PvP and vice-versa PvP skills required to be good for PvE especially for stamina builds. PvPers can now get the normally locked behind PvE competitive gear without PvE but as of now there is no equivalent unlock for PvE players, it is the fact that they got their wish 100% while PvE players don't get theirs that brought this up.

Also: why do PvPers who NEVER PvE get so hell bent out of shape when PvEers ask for PvP stuff yet when the option for PvP only people to get stuff gated behind PvE gets suggested few so much as bat an eye?

In response, a similar argument can apply and have been made prior to the last DLC's and VR increases to PvE items.
I think the response is premature or irrational as we all experience change and for certain periods of time (some longer than others) gear and items are coveted as best in slot for certain builds.

later more changes or DLC hit and its no longer the case.

I think the logical reaction is to open yourself to obtaining the gear that best fits your builds based on the availability whether that is PvE or PvP.

I am trying the best I can at that and my gear works out well but I am often finding myself in situations where I am like *** if only I had blank (usually caltrops or barrier) I could do so much better.

Also just so you know I am NOT opposed to PvE gear being buyable I just want some equivalent for PvP exclusive stuff in addition.

Most pve gear is just rng were as the pvp skill lines takes hours upon hours of work. The skill lines are a lot harder to get than gear.

Isn't the loot going to be randomised? random set pieces, random traits, twice a week? It's not like the pvper's can just buy whatever they want they have to pray to RNJesus as well.

I do believe you're correct in it being random gear as well as I know you're correct in the skill lines comments.

(Just another grind in place)

Sharmony · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Are you sure you've thought this through, can you do the same for pve'ers in some manner? what it's resulting in is nulfying pve content for pvp'ers but there is nothing that supports the other way round. I want my akavari, I have to play pvp? Please consider the balance and encouraging people to play a span of content. This change doesn't seem right to me.

Sav72 · December 2015

I want to live in a world....

Where PvPers and PVEers can get along.

BalticBlues · December 2015

ks888 wrote: »

No. You want PvP skill lines, do the work. As someone who spends 90% of my game time in Cyro, I worked for my Proxy Det, Vigor, Barrier, etc. If you want the skills, earn them.

No. You want PvE gear, do the work. As someone who spends 90% of my game time in PvE, I worked for months on my Helmets, Shoulders etc. If you want the gear, earn it in PvE.

The OP has a point:
The new system allows PvP people to avoid unwanted PvE to get the endgame gear for vMA.
The new system then should allow PvE peope to avoid unwantend PvP to get the skills for vMA.

It does not matter if we talk about gear or skills, we talk about required endgame stuff.
People should be able to play what they like to and how they like to get their dream build.

Forcing PvE people into unwanted PvP for required skills is the same mistake as it has been to force PvE people into unwanteded PvP in IC for V16 mats. PvE people hated to be butchered in PvP by OP NBs who are ruling PvP in invisible god mode.

Sharmony · December 2015

Actually, just wanted to add this seeing as maybe Sir @ZOS_BrianWheeler might see it himself! Have you considered separating PvP and PvE content entirely instead of intertwining the two together like many mmo's don't do. To my eyes it seems you tried to take a step in this direction with the IC pvp gear from tel var vendors, but all in all, changes like the one being discussed in this post are as a direct results of sets / skill lines that are important in both areas not being accessible in both areas. Now the plan is to make a rotation of expensive (to non pvper's, relative amounts to pvp'ers) of gear that is completely RNG in PvE, and you're discussing traits in PvP? If it is not RNG their then just consider the steps you are further taking to imbalance the two and stepping ever further away from attempting to separate the PvP and PvE to reduce the numbers of issues.

Better yet, don't sell any shoulders, sell gold keys. Then that's fair as everyone else. or fix the PvE at the same time as this PvP thing.

TequilaFire · December 2015

So where does it end?
As a PvE and a PvP player I get all the above without having to PvP or PvE?
Interesting.

TheValkyn · December 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Correct. AP OR Gold will be usable to purchase the items on the merchant. To also be clear, it will not be a combination of both to purchase an item. EG. If you want a Lord Warden Shoulder piece (or any of the gear that appears on the merchant) you will spend either AP or gold, but not AP + Gold.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Thanks for this, Brian. You da man.

Flaminir · December 2015

TheValkyn wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Correct. AP OR Gold will be usable to purchase the items on the merchant. To also be clear, it will not be a combination of both to purchase an item. EG. If you want a Lord Warden Shoulder piece (or any of the gear that appears on the merchant) you will spend either AP or gold, but not AP + Gold.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Thanks for this, Brian. You da man.

He's da man... as long as the first time I go in there I see lots of divines/infused Nerien'eth, E'Guardian, Kena, and Valkyn... and don't see medium 'Maw of the Infernal' well fitted pieces!

Callous2208 · December 2015

Jaronking wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

I really just wish the pvp skill lines weren't so darn hard to level. I do enjoy a bit of pvp but holy smokes. That's all I've been doing for two weeks now and that bar is barely moving. The fact that my stamplar has to have the skills in that line to be successful in end game pve is a whole nother argument for some other time/thread.

I say the same thing about undaunted I hate it.It's worst than Grinding and it moves so slow.I feel like blowing my brains out doing it.PVP is what I enjoy during but I need it to maximize my builf so I have to PVE is that fair?In my opinion its easier to level Assault if you know what your doing.

As a pve'r I guess I just don't know what I'm doing. Raising undaunted took hardly any time it seemed, as I was just finishing dungeons and doing pledges. This assault line is the bane of my existence however. I kill some people, take some keeps, move on. But the bar just barely creeps forward. At the rate I'm going now I'll be where I need to be in a few months lol.

Xendyn · December 2015

Sharmony wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

BoP vs. BoE and which traits are still being discussed.

Are you sure you've thought this through, can you do the same for pve'ers in some manner? what it's resulting in is nulfying pve content for pvp'ers but there is nothing that supports the other way round. I want my akavari, I have to play pvp? Please consider the balance and encouraging people to play a span of content. This change doesn't seem right to me.

In that example, no.
You can get a pvper to sell you the chapters for gold.