WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016. There are a ton of threads floating around discussing this or that aspect of PvP that have plenty of merit, but I would like to consolidate the discussion for the benefit of all (and ZOS ) so let's do that. This is a discussion for the PvP aspects of the game, but feel free to chime in if any of the proposed changes/tweaks would adversely affect PvE to a great extent. This discussion should be in the best interest of PvPers to promote a more balanced battlefield in Cyrodiil but not at the expense of the PvE content most of us participate in as well.

1) Harness Magicka should not stack with Hardened Ward. Period. I shouldn't have to explain why at this point.

2) Any and every ability should take the user out of stealth/Cloak. Yes, this includes Vigor, Camo Hunter, Rally, etc.

3) Surprise Attack should at the very minimum lose its built in armor debuff, it is too stupid OP atm.

4) Dragon Blood should actually heal the 33% of missing health it says it does. No brainer.

5) If we must have AoE caps, Barrier and Purge need to be subject to them as well.

6) For the love of Talos, can Toppling Charge please work every time?

7) Ambush should not be locking ppl out of using abilities.

8) Overload needs a rehaul. I know the argument, "blah blah toggles," but in reality the 3rd bar is used as a dedicated utility bar by any competent sorc in PvP. My Templar would like an extra utility bar too but that wouldn't be fair.

9) Eclipse should not be limited to one target if it is CC breakable.

10) Camo Hunter should not proc the stealth bonus more than once. Period. If more calculations are necessary to make this happen then so be it.

11) Molten Weapons could use a slight duration buff.

12) Healing Ward, many of you will argue, is OP and needs nerfed, but I view it as a good tool to use against that OP stamina damage that is running rampant in Cyrodiil. I'm sure this will warrant further discussion.

13) Please look into making Templar ultimates more worthwhile in PvP.

14) DK whip needs a slight damage buff, it really is pathetic.

15) If you're a vamp/werewolf, you shouldn't need a skill slotted to enjoy the perks thereof, cause DB will still wreck you without it.

16) DK Chains should be less random.

17) I dunno about everyone else, but I don't think immovable potions should be a thing.

I was on vacation for a bit so haven't played much lately, this is what I could think of off the top of my head. I play all classes and have no hidden agenda. I'm doing this so that we can have 4 balanced classes that each are effective in their own way while still being competitive vs the other 3 classes. And for the record, I am strongly against any Cloak/Hardened Ward nerfs. These abilities have powerful synergies with other abilities and that it what needs to be looked at, not the abilities themselves.

I'm sure I missed some things and I'm sure some of these points some ppl will disagree with, but not a bad starting point IMO.

laced wrote: »

Executioner is awful unless they have low health, .

Artemis wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016. There are a ton of threads floating around discussing this or that aspect of PvP that have plenty of merit, but I would like to consolidate the discussion for the benefit of all (and ZOS ) so let's do that. This is a discussion for the PvP aspects of the game, but feel free to chime in if any of the proposed changes/tweaks would adversely affect PvE to a great extent. This discussion should be in the best interest of PvPers to promote a more balanced battlefield in Cyrodiil but not at the expense of the PvE content most of us participate in as well.

1) Harness Magicka should not stack with Hardened Ward. Period. I shouldn't have to explain why at this point.

2) Any and every ability should take the user out of stealth/Cloak. Yes, this includes Vigor, Camo Hunter, Rally, etc.

3) Surprise Attack should at the very minimum lose its built in armor debuff, it is too stupid OP atm.

4) Dragon Blood should actually heal the 33% of missing health it says it does. No brainer.

5) If we must have AoE caps, Barrier and Purge need to be subject to them as well.

6) For the love of Talos, can Toppling Charge please work every time?

7) Ambush should not be locking ppl out of using abilities.

8) Overload needs a rehaul. I know the argument, "blah blah toggles," but in reality the 3rd bar is used as a dedicated utility bar by any competent sorc in PvP. My Templar would like an extra utility bar too but that wouldn't be fair.

9) Eclipse should not be limited to one target if it is CC breakable.

10) Camo Hunter should not proc the stealth bonus more than once. Period. If more calculations are necessary to make this happen then so be it.

11) Molten Weapons could use a slight duration buff.

12) Healing Ward, many of you will argue, is OP and needs nerfed, but I view it as a good tool to use against that OP stamina damage that is running rampant in Cyrodiil. I'm sure this will warrant further discussion.

13) Please look into making Templar ultimates more worthwhile in PvP.

14) DK whip needs a slight damage buff, it really is pathetic.

15) If you're a vamp/werewolf, you shouldn't need a skill slotted to enjoy the perks thereof, cause DB will still wreck you without it.

16) DK Chains should be less random.

17) I dunno about everyone else, but I don't think immovable potions should be a thing.

I was on vacation for a bit so haven't played much lately, this is what I could think of off the top of my head. I play all classes and have no hidden agenda. I'm doing this so that we can have 4 balanced classes that each are effective in their own way while still being competitive vs the other 3 classes. And for the record, I am strongly against any Cloak/Hardened Ward nerfs. These abilities have powerful synergies with other abilities and that it what needs to be looked at, not the abilities themselves.

I'm sure I missed some things and I'm sure some of these points some ppl will disagree with, but not a bad starting point IMO.

OP is just playing a stamina templar and wants to win everyone. He doesn't care about balance. He would otherwise notice that Wrecking Blow HAS to be nerfed. This the dumbest skill in game right now. You simply spam it and have both huge damage AND CC with no combo needed. Just buff and press one button. So stupid.And we can't ignore it - gotta block or counter CC it or you will get knocked down and get 2 more WBs while breaking CC. No, WB has too much! both insane damage and hard cc? it has to be changed yesterday.
Like seriously, this skill is ***.

laced wrote: »

Executioner is awful unless they have low health, .

That's the whole point.

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

xXNesTXx wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NBs are by far the strongest class in PvP right now. Why do you think 95% of sewer gankers are Nightblades? The only thing these guys need more than a nerf is a BAN for griefing everybody else!

First one....in Ps4, the number of sewers gankers is the same for all classes....because become hidden when crouch are available for all....

Second one, be a ganker not means be strong....means be a moth%r Fu#k&"rs

Third one, gankers are crap but....is illegal? i don't think so.... then ... a ban? are you seriously?

If you are ganked....come back, kill him, and do some tbag.....that is so much better than a ban.....at least...it's more fun

Being a ganker doesn't make you the strongest class in PvP. I would argue sorcs are the strongest. They have Insane shield stacking, mobility, insane range damage, and can heal. Lets looks at all the classes and see what they get:

SORCs
Shields
Mobility
DPS
Heals

NB
Mobility
DPS
Heals

DK
Heals
Shields/Armor Mitigation
DPS (Some may say otherwise)

Templar
Heals
Shields
DPS (Some may say otherwise)

Clearly, Sorcs are the only class that accelerate and have access to all 4 categories without sacrificing too much. Sorcs are easy mode. I saw a sorc tank and kill 8 players in sewers by kiting a sewer boss back and forth through them while absorbing the damage from both the players and the boss. Eventually, he and the boss killed them all off. All he was doing was shield stacking, weaving in attacks, and healing...

Master_Kas wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Finally I get to jump in here, dam message board account never worked. I only play Sorc so some of this will be from a sorc's view so don't beat me up to bad I'm trying to be constructive. Also I've been PVing since EQ so please take it easy on the L2P crap.

1. Harness Magicka, (shield stacking), I'm not sure why this is such a big deal, MMO's have used this for years, EQ had the exact same mechanics. As Sorc I would expect to have the be defense against magic users and the least against Stam, currently that's the balance. Also Its not easy maintaining 2 to 3 shields in a battle so I really don't find it OP, hell I get killed all the time by well played Templars. If a change to shield stacking is added, making harness worthless first off, then the balance would need to be maintained somehow. Maybe making armor stats applied to shields and then adding say 15k spoiled resist to harden ward? I'm not trying to make it OP but we would be little weak without it.

2. Healing Ward, I'm not sure what as a Sorc we should do if this isn't stackable. We could not maintain any sustain in battle. Personally i think the shield itself is pretty worthless but its the only heal we have. But if its a stacking issue, maybe drop the size of the shield but lower the time of the shield to 3-4 secs bring the heal in faster? Class heal?

3. Surprise Attack, how many times can i be hit with this till its not a surprise anymore?

4. Ambush, this is one of the most annoying abilities in the game, very frustrating. This needs to be addressed just as a playability aspect, its just not very fun anytime control is taken away from the player, more on that later. Also I think I should be able to streak away from Ambush.

5. Fear, seriously? Needs to be reworked. With the DPS of a NB this is just to much. Should be much easier to be broken and definitely on damage.

6. Cloak, I don't believe it needs to nerfed like streak, hell streak should be un-nerfed. However, I don't believe you should be able to cloak .01 secs before a Frags, or whatever, is going to hit and not take any damage. There should be a point where some time in flight the damage is guaranteed to hit. Cloak should be a surprise attack and escape mechanic and not a damage avoidance.

7. Crystal Frags. This spell need some love. It misses far to often. I'm not talking about a dodge role miss, which I think is a fair move but it will just will fly over someones head for no reason, or a player will move to the right a 1/2 a foot it will miss, it goes right threw players, it will dissipate as it hit someone. This is a "spell" its MAGIC! its not a gun. To avoid the damage a player should have to to some sort of defensive move not just step to the right. It takes a lot to even get the spell ready to use. Wait for proc, cast entropy, then actually fire. As a Sorc's main damage it needs to be more reliable. I think the trait dodge also has a large effect on the misses, maybe add a focus champ point or trait so that if a dodge does proc when I fire a Frag I would get a 25-50% of it focusing back on target for damage? I've had battles where 4 frags in a row just miss for no reason, not a very fun mechanic in the game. Mages wrath also miss a lot in lag situations.

8. Streak, oh the days when I could streak and actually felt like a Sorc. I think we went to far on this. It was never that good of a escape skill. I good NB with a gap closer could still lock you down trying to get away. Now it just a death sentence to even try. Maybe drop the cool down to 2 sec? As a sorc I need to reposition quite bit in battle, not running away but staying engaged. 4 sec is a bit long to move again. Putting it at 2 still keeps the spamming of it in check but allows me stay engaged in the fight longer without going OOM.

9. Streak animation rework. The skill needs to be more responsive. It takes forever for it to fire off with its windup animation, with the lag its even worse. Even in a no lag zone I can cast streak turn and watch someone with a giant sword run over and smack me to the ground before it fires off. Sure, lag can be blamed for some of it but not all and since the lag issue may never be fully solved I say change it so that as soon as I hit streak my character is already registering in landing destination location. Then have the streak animation catch up to me. Make it more responsive like NB's Cloak, they hit it and they are gone!

10. Vigor, it needs a tweak. Its really put a balancing issue between magicka and stamina classes. NB's have the best damage best, mobility, best escape then you toss in a heal vigor? I've seen Vigor enable NB's take on groups and do pretty well. I thought the whole point of NB was stealth, surprise and damage while being squishy? The game is devolving into run around a rock spamming vigor. Also not a fun time. BTW where is my magic morph of vigor?

11. CC and Dodge role. I've been thinking about this quite a bit and this is a little less of a balancing issue more of a playability issue. In a battle I can dodge role or break from only 2-3 maybe 4 times. This is not really what I believe the spirt of the game should be about, hitting click click click, really isn't fun. I'm being far to limited as a magicka user in breaking CC's, dying not from skill but a bad design. I really fell like 3-4 roles or break frees in a battle is to little. Stam classes can stack everything into stam get the benefits of damage, more skill spamming, but also spam CC breaks and dodge roles without really sacrificing anything. They can ignore the magic bar completely. Magical users don't have this luxury it really put the stam users at an advantage when dealing with CC. Couple of ideas, 1. Morph of break free to use magicka. (not my fav) 2. (And I like this idea better.) Have the break free use either stam or magicka based on what skill was used to create the CC. So a Crystal frags break free would use magic and a wreaking blow CC would use stam type of thing. I really think this could add a really fun dynamic to the game and also might even make rune prison a thing in PVP.

Just some things I've noticed. Let me know your thoughts. Hopefully ZOS can work some of this stuff out (lag) as the combat is wicked fun.

Your evil Sorc,
Elured Fury

Magicka vigor morph? Use healing springs/rapid regen

Ambush needs minimum range and all Gapclosers need that silence/lock removed or reworked

About fear: CC break and cc immunity needs to work always and instantly (if you have stamina for it ofc) there is issues with all hard cc in the game from time to time. Throw in lag on that.. You get My point.


Nice "nerf nb buff sorc" comment

@DeanTheCat lol good read.

Essiaga wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

12) Healing Ward, many of you will argue, is OP and needs nerfed, but I view it as a good tool to use against that OP stamina damage that is running rampant in Cyrodiil. I'm sure this will warrant further discussion.

No.

Currently sorcs do not have any class heals. You ruin Healing Ward and suddenly sorcs wont be taken into vet groups to heal.

Healing Ward is THE staple heal for any Sorc that is healing in PvE.

My NB healer agrees, I personally am ok with how it works currently. Harness on the other hand....

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

We should compile the threads ZOS should ignore. Let's start with this one on the list.

The issue with Healing Ward and Harness is Sorc's Hardened Ward. If Hardened Ward wasn't so high by it's self (3x larger then they next magicka class shield due to all other shields being based on health) then shield stacking wouldn't be an issue as no one cares when other classes do it.

I posted a few times about a Major/Minor Shield buff (an idea borrowed from another forum poster which I'm sorry i won't be able to properly credit) that would bring all shields in line. Major Shield would 20% and Minor 10% of either magicka or health, whichever is higher. Being that there are only 2 buffs you could never stack more then 2 shields and never for more then 30% max magicka or health. All class shields would be Major Shield Buff. All non-class would be Minor.

Healing Ward - I think all classes besides Templar should get a passive that increases the shield on ally by 50%. This would mean they would give essentially a 15% shield to the ally. This would help to bridge the gap between Templar and other classes playing the healer role, though of course there will still be a gap.

Also Sorc's do have class heals in Surge, Blood Magic, and Dark Exchange. They have access to Consuming Trap, Blood Alter, Energy Orb, Cleanse, and any abilities in Restorations staff Tree, including Blessing of Protection which some use over Healing Ward and can heal as strong as Breath of Life.

Sorc's also have other defensive skills such as Bolt Escape, Lightning Form which grants Expedition, Conjured Ward, and a bunch of CCs that also allow them to control or escape fight. They also have monster DPS compared to other magicka builds.

Over all I think the only legit complaint about the Sorc is they have Burst DPS over sustain DPS but that's the reason people play Sorcs over the other magicka classes. They lack the weaknesses other classes have due to Ward being such a large shield. That is easily overcome with use of Destruction staff, but the issue is that Sorcs want their cake and ice cream and cookies and pie and want it all with in the class so as to not sacrifice Spell damage for utility. So on the DPS bar they would need Force Shock, and on the defensive/buff bar they need a Resto ability. They'll lose 2% spell damage on each bar by going outside of their tree and more by not using Duel Wield. I would suggest a Crystal Shards morph that would basically be Force Shock. It would not have the burst damage that CF has but I don't think anyone that PVPs will morph away from CF.

They are low risk, high reward where as the other classes have a good bit of risk compared to reward as they can not escape or depend on shield that is based on health and screwed by Battle Spirit in PVP. Many other magicka builds are using Sword and Shield and stamina abilities such as Evasion to make up for their lack of mitigation and mobility.

Healing Ward is the best shields a Magicka NB has as they do not have a class shield. While NB have some quality self heals and mobility they're stuck being a stealthier class to survive (as they should) where as a Sorc will dance around taunting enemies to exploit the situation. They don't have to run away or escape. They can Stand and Fight or Bolt Away or Nuke.

In short nerf sorc's shields buff other classes shields a bit and shields stacking wan't matter much.