Ankael07 wrote: »

- Weakness to Fire (Like all Undead)

- weakness to anti-undead magicks (like all undead)

- Becoming Physically Frail

- Putting off a Horrible Smell

- Having Ones "Junk" eventually fall off due to the decay

- Not being able to dwell in civilized society

- Not being able to enjoy food or drink or anykind, mentioned somewhere that lichs still feel hunger

- Requiring an energy source to stay alive (Read amongst the Draugr in Skyrim the DP are Lichs and they need to the draugrs energy to stay alive)
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- Liches in general have resistance to magic overall.Some spell resistance can be added to counter the flame weakness.

- Much like their phylactries their physical body is magically resistant...even against pain.

- Horrible smells,decaying junk,dwelling in society can never be a problem for a lich be cause theyre all masters in arcane arts which includes illusion( take Mannimarco's look for example).

- Yes lich feel hunger but thats not for food nor drink.Its a hunger for soul and its not out of need to survive (like vampires need for blood) but a hunger for more power.

- And lastly Dragon Priests in Skyrim never achived true lichdoom.Theirs was somewhat a weaker a temporary state of immortality constantly fed with blood by draugr.If you take a look at Oblivion on the other hand you'll see how powerful a lich can become.

- "Much like their phylactries their physical body is magically resistant...even against pain."

You don't know anything about ES lichdom do you? if you did you would know phylacteries in ES serve no purpose once the transformation is complete...FYI all undead are resistant to pain, what do you think the undeath passive vampires get does? if a lich dies a lich dies and every ES game even ESO lich's all have fire weakness's and they are also weak to silver bolts, the Lichs in oblivion were weak infact by the time they spawn, they are one of the weaker enemies ingame because they do not scale and thus at high levels they are easily overtaken in terms of power by vampires and even bandits.

"Yes lich feel hunger but thats not for food nor drink.Its a hunger for soul and its not out of need to survive (like vampires need for blood) but a hunger for more power."

This line in particular "but a hunger for more power" well so does a Dragonborn or a Vampire and most wizards or example, you do know in D&D which Elder Scrolls was actually a "homebrew" of, lichs in 5E now require feeding souls to their phylactery or they will die much like the Dragon Priests in ES require the draugr's energy or they will die, Lichs are not all powerful infact they are far from , compare them to say a Vampire Lord who one among their exceedingly rare numbers is capable of creating a shield so strong you need a god weapon to even get through it as an example, when last did a Lich in ES do something like that?....oh that's right never because 9/10 lich's arnt powerful enough to do that.

People in ES only becomes Lich's for unbound Immortality nothing else, and choose it over vampirism because vampirism involves a demonic curse taking over you and if your killed your soul is going to coldharbour and that isn't a pleasant place to be, the power lichs have is limited by the power of what spells they know which is a major limit, becoming a lich doesn't teach you any new spells now does it? the reason many ancient Lichs are seen as powerful is simply because of that...they are ancient and know a lot, anything that has managed to survive for over 1000 years is gonna be powerful regardless of what it is, young lichs however are nothing special infact as an example the Nerevarine took on 5 of them one after another. in the sewers beneath Mournhold, if they are as powerful as you have been mislead to believe then how would even "they" of been able of doing that?

A vampires power however comes from there blood not their spells and this can range from Mortal blood which most vampires possess which doesn't have much power and makes them appear weaker on average to Molag Bal's blood which is extremely powerful, now vampires with mortal blood are quite weak,, infact most vampires have this type of blood in their veins and most Lichs are very easily capable of surpassing these vampires in power because these vampires are weaklings/thin-bloods, then you have pureblooded vampires like Lamae Bal and Lord Harkon, now these vampires have the Daedric gods blood flowing through their veins its what makest hem pureblooded vampires, they would make Lichs like Gedna Revel look like Weaklings by comparison because their power is limited via the power of the blood that flows through them which came from a god which gives them a LOT of power.

I'm not interested into becoming a Lych, but that's just a question of personal taste. If it can amuse players, why not.

But according to the story your character is basically a deadra that's bound to Nirn instead of Oblivion now. So you would be an undead deadra? xD

the reason of becoming a lich is not only to be immortal but to keep your soul,your will AND your personality through immortality.And there are way more than several liches in lore that are actually quite ''good'' in moral infact one of them was a companion of Mannimarco himself but abandoned him later on when she found out about his sick ambition

I know this is an aside, but I see it all the time in movies/games and pop culture in general, and I can't help myself but to bring it up eventually... This isn't directed at the poster above, but just at the topic in general.

If something or someone is "Immortal", that means he/she/it can NEVER die or be killed. It will live forever, and there is NOTHING anyone can ever do to terminate that existence. Hence, typically, divine beings are presented as immortal, as sometimes are spirits and souls.

If something lives perpetually UNTIL it is killed (such as is the case with liches or some other undead), it is not immortal. It will not die of natural causes (short of the heat death of the universe or some such natural event), but it can be killed by a third party or circumstances beyond its control. It has perpetually extended its existence by one form or another (typically in a way that carries significant drawbacks to gain that power), but it is still vulnerable to death.

A key point of this distinction in mythology and folklore was that this is a "second-best" and most-likely futile effort. In many cases, it serves as a warning against trying to use magic or other "forbidden" power to try to achieve true immortality. Such "dark deals" (or at the very least, morally ambiguous deals) usually end with the individual losing his or her humanity, in one form or another, and becoming "undead" rather than "immortal". The individual seems to "overcome" death, but in doing so, loses almost all connection with what makes one human--the ability to love, to sacrifice for others, etc.--and is often driven by darker motives such as revenge, fear of physical death, or lust for power. Even in the case of TES liches, the body is decayed and itself becomes a visible embodiment of the inability to fully escape physical death. Death is just waiting to call in the loan of time, and in the meantime has turned the lich into a visible manifestation of death's suspended but inevitable calling. Indeed, the lich (or the vampire for that matter) becomes a slave of death, serving as death's instrument for those whom it inevitably kills, often to maintain their own attempts to escape physical death's inevitability.

That's why I never become a vampire or "undead" in general in such games... Far from representing power or immortality, they rather represent a sad, fearful, and ultimately futile attempt to escape death by one's own feeble power, or by making one's self a groveling servant to Death itself.

/end pet-peeve rant

Ragefist wrote: »

Oh yea, its perfectly normal for a Lich to walk into Fighters Guild or Mages Guild and go help them out a bit...

No, Liches dwell in their crypts, let it stay that way

Vampires and WW too right...... @Ragefist cuz....it makes sense......

OGLezard wrote: »

Ragefist wrote: »

Oh yea, its perfectly normal for a Lich to walk into Fighters Guild or Mages Guild and go help them out a bit...

No, Liches dwell in their crypts, let it stay that way

Vampires and WW too right...... @Ragefist cuz....it makes sense......

Well, vampires have been in the Mages Guild in TES lore, and sometimes can be hidden, and WWs typically remain hidden. Thus either can be hiding in the Fighters Guild (depending on the type of vampire). I do agree that a full-blown vampire should not be a member of the Fighters Guild. That being what it is, though, there is no hiding, nor tolerance, for a lich, however. Nor do they leave their crypts to my knowledge, though someone feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong.

OGLezard wrote: »

Ragefist wrote: »

Oh yea, its perfectly normal for a Lich to walk into Fighters Guild or Mages Guild and go help them out a bit...

No, Liches dwell in their crypts, let it stay that way

Vampires and WW too right...... @Ragefist cuz....it makes sense......

Not really. There are some wws/vamps living among normal people: Janus Hassildor, Verandis Ravenwatch, Sybille Stentor, some of the Companions...

Anything adding extra game play wise, is fine by me. Might be a better option as an ultimate skill or the likes. Fits nicely with a necromancer type character.

Now this may be my perspective, but adding a lich to the world skill lines seem a bit much. That is, in terms of power, its like adding the undead equivalent of a Vampire Lord whereas a regular strain would suffice. Perhaps you can replace it with a close cousin?

[/quote]

You don't know anything about ES lichdom do you? if you did you would know phylacteries in ES serve no purpose once the transformation is complete...FYI all undead are resistant to pain, what do you think the undeath passive vampires get does? if a lich dies a lich dies and every ES game even ESO lich's all have fire weakness's and they are also weak to silver bolts, the Lichs in oblivion were weak infact by the time they spawn, they are one of the weaker enemies ingame because they do not scale and thus at high levels they are easily overtaken in terms of power by vampires and even bandits.

"Yes lich feel hunger but thats not for food nor drink.Its a hunger for soul and its not out of need to survive (like vampires need for blood) but a hunger for more power."

This line in particular "but a hunger for more power" well so does a Dragonborn or a Vampire and most wizards or example, you do know in D&D which Elder Scrolls was actually a "homebrew" of, lichs in 5E now require feeding souls to their phylactery or they will die much like the Dragon Priests in ES require the draugr's energy or they will die, Lichs are not all powerful infact they are far from , compare them to say a Vampire Lord who one among their exceedingly rare numbers is capable of creating a shield so strong you need a god weapon to even get through it as an example, when last did a Lich in ES do something like that?....[/quote]


Very insightful Aoife but if we were to talk about the potential of both sides you should remember the Ideal Master's of Soul Cairn (considering theyve achieved all this with their own power,will and wits)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ideal_Masters

Now back to the topic; I think this character would be a great example of a lich with somewhat acceptable moral

http://www.esohead.com/books/1422-the-legend-of-vastarie

I think there should be at least a necromancy skill line or a class with lich transformation ultimate so that it wouldnt be so absurd to have rotten corpses running all over.

I've been wanting this for a long time. To begin with, I really like ES lore and I have been digging into it over the years and through different ES games. Now people are very sensitive when it comes to lore-breaking additions and I get that. Even I frowned when I saw them adding vampire/ww bites to the crown store.

However in ESO there is already so many things that break lore. For example already mentioned vampires and werewolves being part of Fighters Guild and Adventurers pack that lets you play any race in any alliance. Adding "Lich" is IMO no more lore breaking. How they would implement it is the real question.

My idea is adding the long awaited "Necromancy" skill line. Werewolves have been the go to affliction for Stamina builds and vampire for magicka and stamina but emphasizing sneaky gameplay. Adding necromancy as a third option would be magicka favoured option giving magicka boosting passives opposed to stamina boosts that we already have. This would give players possibility to aim for affliction that enhances their playstyle and fantasy.

The lich comes in as the ultimate of the Necromancy skill line. Much like ww transformation, Lich transformation reguires alot of ultimate and provides you with new skills at your disposal. These skills would be alot like WW skills, but magicka based and to prevent lich form abuse they could make it drain your mana or different kind of resource. This gives lich clear playstyle. Stay behind your tankier allies and cast powerful spells from the backline. If you get caught you are easily killed. Popping lich form in the middle of the fight wont help you survive so you need to think before you act.

This is just brainstorming and figuring gameplay improvement that seem good to ME. So I would like to hear your thoughts aswell. I think "Necromancy" or "Lich" would provide nice WW kind of option for magicka builds and leave vampire still viable for those who want the utility and great AOE ultimate without sacrificing your own class skills for the duration. Mixing lich form with necromancy skill line would be beneficial for those who do not want to look lich 24/7 but still have some small skeletal features on their character just like vampires do.

Thank you for hearing me out and again I would like to point out that these are my opinions and yours can vary. No opinion is wrong and I would love to hear your thoughts on this concept!

AshySamurai wrote: »

How you imagine this? Liches are already undead . Yeah, you loose your soul, but you still alive. In that case, you need someone, who will summon you if you want to be a lich. So, at least you cant do it alone. Also liches cant use any weapon. If you want to turn into lich-form like WW - I'll say no! (lore-breaking) If you turn into lich like Vampire, you dont able to use any weapon and weapon skills. Also you loose 2 slots for set bonuses.
BTW Lich (Oblivion)

These pants are loose.

If she were to lose her pants, I might consider banging.

Edit:
OT - I don't care if it is "lich" or necromancer or whatever. Elder Scrolls Online has (or at least had) a large RP community.
Denying them a valid "evil" storyline is just too restrictive.

I remember Baldur's Gate 2 - the most fun I ever had RPing in a game. Chaotic Evil mage. Having guards attack me every time I come into town.
Pure gold.
Banging Viconia ofc.