Buying Champion Points

JamilaRaj · November 2015

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

He will still get more CPs than a player questing without scrolls. There will be power gap between the two; he will have paid to win over the other player.

Nope. A "free" player can get the same boost for measly 4000 gold or so.
It doesnt even make much sense to use crown scrolls, lol.

He can, but then cash to CPs scheme becomes cash to gold scheme, and gold can be used to buy other things that have impact on power.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

That is as P2W as anything can possibly be, because AFAIK there no way you could get that mount without paying.
Even if you could, even if the bear was not an objective (win) per se, effort spent on getting it could not be spent on e.g. grinding gear, CPs, whatever, therefore there would again be power gap between those who paid and those who did not.

No offense, but you have no idea what p2w really is.

Feel free to share some insights into what P2W really is.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Mounts are available for in-game gold. Bear mount doesnt have any advantages over normal horse, its only a cosmetic skin. Therefore, its not pay to win.

SHADOW2KK · November 2015

No, just no.

aidenmoore · November 2015

They should open up Champion Point system even sooner than reaching VR1. As soon as level 10 same as PvP. So that the new players can actually "catch up" to the veteran players.

Ruben · November 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

He will still get more CPs than a player questing without scrolls. There will be power gap between the two; he will have paid to win over the other player.

Nope. A "free" player can get the same boost for measly 4000 gold or so.
It doesnt even make much sense to use crown scrolls, lol.

He can, but then cash to CPs scheme becomes cash to gold scheme, and gold can be used to buy other things that have impact on power.

Cash to gold? Have you even played this game? You cannot buy XP Potions or any of it's ingredients with Crowns! There is absolutely no way to make gold with cash!

JamilaRaj wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

That is as P2W as anything can possibly be, because AFAIK there no way you could get that mount without paying.
Even if you could, even if the bear was not an objective (win) per se, effort spent on getting it could not be spent on e.g. grinding gear, CPs, whatever, therefore there would again be power gap between those who paid and those who did not.

No offense, but you have no idea what p2w really is.

Feel free to share some insights into what P2W really is.

Paying to get an in game advantage over other players. A mount can be bought in game? It's not p2w. Styles can be acquired in game? It's not p2w.
What makes other games pay to win: Buying best in slot items. Buying "100% safe" improvement items. Buying otherwise impossible to get temporary buffs. Buying levels.

Having paid content does not make the game P2W automatically. I wish the mandatory subscription could have stayed.

pronkg · November 2015

It's very easy to get them, and I don't know what the big deal is. I know guys with about 200 cp that are nearly unbeatable in pvp. I know guys with about 200 cp that fly through maelstrom arena like nothing.

What's the point of mmos if you eliminate progression I seriously don't get the point.

This is not the death of this mmo. Giving people the ability to buy "The End" is the death.

Lots of people will buy their max level and get bored in about a month or less

And another majority will leave cause of the disadvantage people have over them cause people are willing to pay for max level.

Let's just give zenimax a 100$ each they give us a max character with top gear, 3600CP, emperor status and all achievements and then they can happily close down the servers cause everybody finished playing is happy and zos got their profit.

Seriously if you want to buy endgame go play Warframe or whatever cheap mmo

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

He can, but then cash to CPs scheme becomes cash to gold scheme, and gold can be used to buy other things that have impact on power.

Um, I'm sorry but there's no way to convert exp scrolls to in-game gold. They're account bound so you cannot sell or trade such items.

Feel free to share some insights into what P2W really is.

Its actually quite obvious.
P2W is when an important feature is not available for "normal" players. Mounts, for example, are not p2w - you can get them with ingame gold. Exp pots are very cheap and also can be bought with in-game gold. Same for motifs and respecs.
According to OP, instant cp boost should be sold for "hefty" price, so it would only be available for those who paid said price. No ingame alternative for non-cosmetic feature=p2w.
P.S.And yeah, horse training was borderline p2w, but at least horse doesnt affect your character's performance and strength.

DerpyShadowz · November 2015

Its not really too hard to keep up in CP.

Across my 4 VR16's, one of each class, i roughly have about 160 days played total. Which isnt alot compared to people who have all day to play.

I started with the early access, And i have a full time job also. When CP very first came out and we were all given 70CP to start, i spent the first entire month at 70CP, because i wasnt doing content to gain me CP.

Now at this moment im only 7CP off the 501 Cap. There is really no need to stress or mass grind to keep up with players now this systems in place. If anything id actually be at the cap quicker now without it due to the increase exp costs at my range.

Brrrofski · November 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

The CP system is inherently bad to the bone for beginners, if P2W or not.
So time has to show if the current player base is big enough to sustain the game?

Why do great sports games like FIFA or Unreal Tournament not need a CP system?
Because these games are played by people for FUN and SKILLS.

There is no skill involved at all in collecting CP points.
It is just a flawed system to reward players for their time, not for their skills.

ESO should get rid of the CP system to become more of a sports/skills game.
What this game could need is a LEAGUE system and more PVP modes, especially in IC.

They are games that people play for a few hours now and then and for a few months of the year.

They release a new title every year just to get people interested again.

MMOs (and elder scrolls for that matter) are different. They need to keep players engrossed and want longevity from a player.

vyrusb23 · November 2015

Still talking about our non-existant problem? I better go refill my popcorn bucket.

OGLezard · November 2015

WTB monster sets in the crown store as well as maelstrom arena gear!!! Come on ZoS! Takes my money! 2 years of horrible RNG and now even more horribad RNG, Just let me buy the gear I want please. It is, after all, convenient to let me do this and the crown store is only for convenience items.

Edit: also WTB unbinders in the crown store and the ability to gift them to players so they can unbind the gear they have that I need and have been looking for for a LOOOOOOOONG time!!! Will pay 5 dollars per unbinders @ZoS I HAS MONEY YOU CAN HAVE!!!

Pangnirtung · November 2015

aidenmoore wrote: »

They should open up Champion Point system even sooner than reaching VR1. As soon as level 10 same as PvP. So that the new players can actually "catch up" to the veteran players.

Why not just be able to create a VR character for in the character creation? Really now.

Why should I not be rewarded for playing since release? Some ppl want/expect to get everything that I earned by putting in the hours. Sheesh.

Enodoc · November 2015

I haven't read all four pages so someone may have said this already, but the system should be self-regulating when it comes to new players catching up. When the cap is increased, the amount of XP needed to get the lower CP ranks goes down. Because of this, new players should always be able to catch up because they will always have to earn less XP than the more experienced players were required to earn.

AzraelKrieg · November 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

I haven't read all four pages so someone may have said this already, but the system should be self-regulating when it comes to new players catching up. When the cap is increased, the amount of XP needed to get the lower CP ranks goes down. Because of this, new players should always be able to catch up because they will always have to earn less XP than the more experienced players were required to earn.

Has been mentioned thankfully. Though I don't think OP read/acknowledged it.

JamilaRaj · November 2015

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

He can, but then cash to CPs scheme becomes cash to gold scheme, and gold can be used to buy other things that have impact on power.

Um, I'm sorry but there's no way to convert exp scrolls to in-game gold. They're account bound so you cannot sell or trade such items.

Either that player who did not buy XP/CP scrolls ends up with less CPs or less gold than his paying counterpart; conversely, that paying player either converts cash to extra CPs or gold.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Feel free to share some insights into what P2W really is.

Its actually quite obvious.
P2W is when an important feature is not available for "normal" players. Mounts, for example, are not p2w - you can get them with ingame gold. Exp pots are very cheap and also can be bought with in-game gold. Same for motifs and respecs.
According to OP, instant cp boost should be sold for "hefty" price, so it would only be available for those who paid said price. No ingame alternative for non-cosmetic feature=p2w.
P.S.And yeah, horse training was borderline p2w, but at least horse doesnt affect your character's performance and strength.

But there is an important feature not available to normal players provided by virtually any item in the cash shop: they can not have them instantly, right now, with no effort. There simply are not in game substitutes with that quality, with that level of availability, and it is precisely that quality that is paid for.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

Hear me out. Today I was killed in pvp, even though I'm at the cp cap. Part of my enjoyment in an mmo is always remaining competitive and when someone kills me or I do not one shot them and teabag their corpse, I feel like less of a man. I should not have to practice and get better at PvP, it is the developers job to ensure I'm always on top so my interest doesn't wain. Please add insta-pwn everyone item in crown store. New players who don't put any time and effort into the game will not be able to compete unless you do.

Respectfully your mindset is that which would insert cancer into the game and the entitlement that comes from these comments suggests that your focus is of personal nature rather than a game community or a server based idea where thousands of others will join you in some way, shape or form to have a direct or indirect impact on your game-play.

I drastically disagree with everything in this comment and do not feel that your understanding of a MMO (server based game with thousands of players) is sound.

Callous2208 · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Hear me out. Today I was killed in pvp, even though I'm at the cp cap. Part of my enjoyment in an mmo is always remaining competitive and when someone kills me or I do not one shot them and teabag their corpse, I feel like less of a man. I should not have to practice and get better at PvP, it is the developers job to ensure I'm always on top so my interest doesn't wain. Please add insta-pwn everyone item in crown store. New players who don't put any time and effort into the game will not be able to compete unless you do.

Respectfully your mindset is that which would insert cancer into the game and the entitlement that comes from these comments suggests that your focus is of personal nature rather than a game community or a server based idea where thousands of others will join you in some way, shape or form to have a direct or indirect impact on your game-play.

I drastically disagree with everything in this comment and do not feel that your understanding of a MMO (server based game with thousands of players) is sound.

I thought I made that comment so outlandish and insane that everyone would realize it was in jest. I may have been wrong.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Hear me out. Today I was killed in pvp, even though I'm at the cp cap. Part of my enjoyment in an mmo is always remaining competitive and when someone kills me or I do not one shot them and teabag their corpse, I feel like less of a man. I should not have to practice and get better at PvP, it is the developers job to ensure I'm always on top so my interest doesn't wain. Please add insta-pwn everyone item in crown store. New players who don't put any time and effort into the game will not be able to compete unless you do.

Respectfully your mindset is that which would insert cancer into the game and the entitlement that comes from these comments suggests that your focus is of personal nature rather than a game community or a server based idea where thousands of others will join you in some way, shape or form to have a direct or indirect impact on your game-play.

I drastically disagree with everything in this comment and do not feel that your understanding of a MMO (server based game with thousands of players) is sound.

I thought I made that comment so outlandish and insane that everyone would realize it was in jest. I may have been wrong.

lol....you gotta use the smiley's

Forestd16b14_ESO · November 2015

vyrusb23 wrote: »

Still talking about our non-existant problem? I better go refill my popcorn bucket.

Long line here ya go.

*eats some popcorn*

Angarato · December 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbK_dbsCu0

Volkodav · December 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

Hear me out. Even with the catch-up mechanic, in a year or so, new players will NEVER be able to catch up with longtime players. Those new players will get very frustrated and eventually they will give up on the game, because there's no way they'll ever catch-up on Champion Points. Those players should be able to buy CP in the Crown Store for a hefty price and ONLY until they've reached the cap.
Is there really another solution?

No.If we had to work to get those CP points,why should the newbies get to just buy them? I know,I sound whiney,but that's what I think.

Prabooo · December 2015

NERF OP

KingYogi415 · December 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

Hear me out. Even with the catch-up mechanic, in a year or so, new players will NEVER be able to catch up with longtime players. Those new players will get very frustrated and eventually they will give up on the game, because there's no way they'll ever catch-up on Champion Points. Those players should be able to buy CP in the Crown Store for a hefty price and ONLY until they've reached the cap.
Is there really another solution?

Please god go back to pretty princess pony land if this game is too hard for you!!!!!!

scrub

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2015

How about paying to have everyones champion points removed so we can go back to a game of skill and not a game where 50CP is worth an entire 5pc of armor?

Personofsecrets · December 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Ruben wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I think champion point selling would be a good thing for the game.

I'm not being dishonest. We already have pay to win. Pay to win is part of many games. Get over it.

What is pay to win currently? Please, do not say XP scrolls because if they are "pay to win" category there would not be this thread asking for a P2W mechanic for something gained with XP.

Why not? The problem with the current P2W scheme via XP/CP scrolls is that it was designed to fool players that it is not a P2W scheme. And it works, a lot of players do not get that extra CPs gained thanks to XP/CP scrolls are effectively paid for advantage over players who did not pay. Unfortunately, it also means that some credit card warriors do not know they should go and pay to win there.
I understand that after all those talks about how ZOS does not want to monetize its players and how subs are the business model for ESO, convenience only and blah blah blah, P2W has to be implemented carefully, step by step, but I think our community is ripe for it. Either there should be flat out CPs in the cash shop, or at least ZOS could explain e.g. in some future ESO live how existing P2W schemes work, that XP/CP scrolls are in fact cash to CPs scheme, repair kits cash to gold scheme etc., so that even the most simple among us could go and actually pay to win.

The community is extremely ripe for it. Many people are in constant denial about p2w already being in the game. Let's keep sliding down the slippery slope. I really don't have an issue with p2w and it is here to stay.

DaveMoeDee · December 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

The CP system is inherently bad to the bone for beginners, if P2W or not.
So time has to show if the current player base is big enough to sustain the game?

Why do great sports games like FIFA or Unreal Tournament not need a CP system?
Because these games are played by people for FUN and SKILLS.

There is no skill involved at all in collecting CP points.
It is just a flawed system to reward players for their time, not for their skills.

ESO should get rid of the CP system to become more of a sports/skills game.
What this game could need is a LEAGUE system and more PVP modes, especially in IC.

Maybe FIFA isn't an RPG? I haven't played it. And ESO should NOT try to be a sports game. If you want that, go play a sports game.

But don't play NB2k games. It has VC. The game is skill based, but you also develop you player(s)/team by doing more in the game. Nothing wrong with that.

If you don't like games like that, play DOTA. Stop trying to make games something they aren't.

DaveMoeDee · December 2015

Derra wrote: »

For this game to stay competetive in the market they have to adjust the catchup mechanic every time they raise the cap so anyone starting a new account will reach atleast 30% of the CP cap by the time the first character reaches max level (v16 atm - when vr ranks get removed adjust the system so you gain CP alongside normal levels).

I expect that every time they raise the CP cap, the XP for each CP will decrease. The 10th CP will require much less XP than it does now. If the current system because less CP generous than the old system at the mid 300s (500), than a raised cap should have the same situation at around 70% of the new cap.

DaveMoeDee · December 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

Ah, it isn't a problem. As the CP cap rises, it won't get any more difficult for new players to catch up. They aren't going to keep the same accrual rate with a raised cap. When they raise the cap, people with fly through the first few hundred at a much faster clip than they do now.

The tough part is that last 20%. But with diminishing returns, as the cap rises, that last 20% has less and less impact.

And this isn't a MOBA anyway.

Katahdin · December 2015

Stupid idea. Might as well add insta V16 too while we are at it.
Then we can all go find another game to play cause there wont be anything left to do in this one.

The system is fine as it is.
There are newer players that have more CP than some people that have been playing since beta. How did that happen?
The long time player has been leveling all their alts more and the newer player focused on a single character or two and gained more CP because of higher vet levels. The system as it is allows anyone with lower CP to gain faster regardless of when they registered their account.

You started later or play less than you are going to be behind people that started earlier and/or played more. Big deal.
If they are gona sell them, then they have to let everyone buy them and it still wouldnt solve the OPs problem. I agree with those that say this isnt a problem; its just blown way out of proportion by people that need to find something to blame besides the real problem.

Personofsecrets · December 2015

What would be wrong with instant v16?

Genomic · December 2015

Champion points in the Crown Store? That sounds convenient.....