Sorc's have burst shields so they have burst damage. That's my understanding of it. Even stamina sorc's have burst healing and damage. It's just there sort of playstyle. Pick up a different class if you want more sustained damage i guess?

Overload is technically a very good spam able dps move that im envious of on my nightblade. It's pretty much back to back soul harvests.

Mages wrath spam isn't all that bad with the right build:

Ezareth wrote: »

Mages wrath spam isn't all that bad with the right build:

Because 7k dps is so good compared to 10-15k minimum with force pulse weave.

Xeven wrote: »

Because Ferraris and video game abilities are equivalent.

Oh i thought we were calling things that are highly unlikely to happen.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

1

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

..... i'm honestly confused at how you feel stam Dks are just as competitive as any sorc.....

I play them both... my sorc outperforms my dk on every level. (PS. my dk is my main... i've played tons of hours on him before i even made the sorc)

I have no problem admitting that I am a far better sorc than I am a NB. I also know that I've fought Stam DKs who can fight me to a stalemate regularly and sometimes beat me so I don't agree with your assessment.

Just look at the recent eu dueling tournament. Out of the top 4 (first place and shared third place) there were 3 stam DKs and one sorc. Luckily for the sorc he did not have to fight one of those stam DKs(two had shieldbreaker) as all top 4 finishers were DC players.

Stam DK is in a pretty good spot atm.

Coming up with 1 specific example means nothing.... Maybe if the vMA boards showed more dks than sorcs.... i would understand how you feel. Running into a strong dk in cyrodil once in a while means nothing since you probably kill 50 of them before you find that one guy that holds his own. Do you play a dk? you're signature doesn't say so.... try it before you go telling everyone how fair and equal the dk class is with the sorc.
The fact of it is.... sorc and nb are in great shape. This thread is ridiculous because sorcs need NOTHING. You want a cheap spammable ability? it's already been pointed out... force pulse. it's ONE weapon ability that you need to use.... boohoo.

Obviously my argument is solely based on the pvp part of the game.

I kill 50 sorcs too before i find one putting up a real fight (over generalisation much - i know)...

Apart from claiming otherwise you can´t provide any evidence to prove your point nor to confound what i stated - the only thing a stamdk is currently lacking in pvp when compared to a sorc or NB is a reliable escape tool (shuffel + immovable speed potion is ok but does not perform miracles).
I´m not even arguing against DKs getting a whip stamina morph or anything. Only state there are certain areas of the game where a stamina DK is not underperforming when compared to sorcerers (if yours does you can´t generalize that on the whole class).

There is no point in comparing classes in a topic only adressing a specific problem of one class anyway.
It only creates a mentality of resentment amongst players which results in players not focusing on communicating problems to the developers but rather being on guard another class sure does not get anything compared to their own.

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

..... i'm honestly confused at how you feel stam Dks are just as competitive as any sorc.....

I play them both... my sorc outperforms my dk on every level. (PS. my dk is my main... i've played tons of hours on him before i even made the sorc)

I have no problem admitting that I am a far better sorc than I am a NB. I also know that I've fought Stam DKs who can fight me to a stalemate regularly and sometimes beat me so I don't agree with your assessment.

Just look at the recent eu dueling tournament. Out of the top 4 (first place and shared third place) there were 3 stam DKs and one sorc. Luckily for the sorc he did not have to fight one of those stam DKs(two had shieldbreaker) as all top 4 finishers were DC players.

Stam DK is in a pretty good spot atm.

2 stam DKs with shieldbreaker entered into the tournament to kill sorcs. Without that set, what do you think it would have happened?

The winner of the tournament was a stamDK without shieldbreaker who´s fought sorcs aswell.

Shieldbreaker is not only good against sorcs but every magica opponent (and even other stamina DKs). Also as stated earlier: The sorc in second place fought none of the stam DKs - guess what would have possibly happend if he did

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

..... i'm honestly confused at how you feel stam Dks are just as competitive as any sorc.....

I play them both... my sorc outperforms my dk on every level. (PS. my dk is my main... i've played tons of hours on him before i even made the sorc)

I have no problem admitting that I am a far better sorc than I am a NB. I also know that I've fought Stam DKs who can fight me to a stalemate regularly and sometimes beat me so I don't agree with your assessment.

Just look at the recent eu dueling tournament. Out of the top 4 (first place and shared third place) there were 3 stam DKs and one sorc. Luckily for the sorc he did not have to fight one of those stam DKs(two had shieldbreaker) as all top 4 finishers were DC players.

Stam DK is in a pretty good spot atm.

2 stam DKs with shieldbreaker entered into the tournament to kill sorcs. Without that set, what do you think it would have happened?

The winner of the tournament was a stamDK without shieldbreaker who´s fought sorcs aswell.

Shieldbreaker is not only good against sorcs but every magica opponent (and even other stamina DKs).

That's right, but it is an specific instance. Besides, not all the people have access to Shielbreaker.

How's shieldbreaker doing it in case of sorcs with overload?

Hm? I don´t understand your question about overload.

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

..... i'm honestly confused at how you feel stam Dks are just as competitive as any sorc.....

I play them both... my sorc outperforms my dk on every level. (PS. my dk is my main... i've played tons of hours on him before i even made the sorc)

I have no problem admitting that I am a far better sorc than I am a NB. I also know that I've fought Stam DKs who can fight me to a stalemate regularly and sometimes beat me so I don't agree with your assessment.

Just look at the recent eu dueling tournament. Out of the top 4 (first place and shared third place) there were 3 stam DKs and one sorc. Luckily for the sorc he did not have to fight one of those stam DKs(two had shieldbreaker) as all top 4 finishers were DC players.

Stam DK is in a pretty good spot atm.

2 stam DKs with shieldbreaker entered into the tournament to kill sorcs. Without that set, what do you think it would have happened?

The winner of the tournament was a stamDK without shieldbreaker who´s fought sorcs aswell.

Shieldbreaker is not only good against sorcs but every magica opponent (and even other stamina DKs).

That's right, but it is an specific instance. Besides, not all the people have access to Shielbreaker.

How's shieldbreaker doing it in case of sorcs with overload?

Hm? I don´t understand your question about overload.

I mean, stacking overload with shield breaker in case a sorcs meets another sorcs. (this is a question from ignorance itself. I've never played a sorc but I think that mixing Overload with ShB and a ranged weapon such as a bow can be a painful option for shield wielders)

unlikely to happen bc overload hits like a wet noodle on stambuilds

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I wanted this pretty badly in 1.5 when I was using Resto/Sword and Board as my build and mages wrath was my go to damage ability to the point where I was known for spamming it constantly against players.

I'm not a big fan of the Destro staff because the only reason you want to use it is for Crushing Shock. Impulse is garbage. Elemental Drain is only useful on PvE bosses and Wall of Elements is....lol.

I'd much rather they made the Crystal Blast Morph of Crystal Fragments spammable for people who want something. Make it instant cast and reduce its damage by 20% and cost by 20%. You'd lose the 20% proc bonus but it would do comparable damage to crushing shock and open up other options for a Sorc without providing a DPS boost.

@Ezareth (or anyone else using melee weapons for that matter)

That would be awesome, and would effectively be +1 skill slot because I would no longer need to slot Crushing Shock.

I could possibly live without destro if we got the ult gain buff from *any* offensive ability, not just light/heavy attacks. Maybe it's all in my head, but I feel like giving up 1k DPS (in PvP) light attack weaving, concussion procs, and all that delicious ult gain is insane.

Obviously my feelings are wrong because otherwise apparently sane sorcs are sporting melee weapons and doing just fine. WHY am I wrong though? How do you deal with such low ult gain? Nobody worth a damn is going to stand there and let you detonation curse entropy fury frag them. Without sustained dps how do you keep them out of your face? How do you put them on the back foot long enough to set up said burst? What is it about this playstyle that I can't wrap my head around? I've never actually tried it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm doing fantastic with my destro but I'm honestly curious how good "melee" sorcs are doing it, and why do they feel that it is viable if not better than destro?

Because when I lay 50k Damage into someone in a span of 3 seconds, who needs an ultimate.

its why you and I will never see eye to eye. You keep trying to throw that crushing shock overload crap at me and it never works. meanwhile i throw a couple frags your way, and maybe a meteor if i feel like it, and you go zooming across the map scared to death of my damage output.

W'R'X found out the hard way the other day when he tried that tactic on me (2v2 me and clerod vs him and Theis, or thais or something like that). I dropped him in three hits as he tried to run from me because he couldnt even break my hardened ward alone with his weave. It just doesnt work anymore, you need chunk hits on people due to the damage decreases across the board.

maybe its time to forget "weaving" and start focusing on chunk damage when it comes to bursting people. you dont need to sit there light/shock/light/shock hurr durr to kill someone. In fact that flat out will not kill anyone competent anymore, it doesnt do enough damage.

10k frag + 15k det + 17k meteor + 6-7k streak + 10k mines and its goodnight irene for most people. Hell how many times have i killed you now with just basic frag spam, because you cant wrap your head around it. Its just like wrecking blow, only from a distance.

Its why I mocked you for clinging to 1.6 meta, sorc burst has gone to insane levels even after the damage nerf in cyro. I can rock almost 4k spell damage 2.4k regen AND almost 40k magicka with 27k health. I dont even need to toy around with destro, its completely pointless.

Why bother worrying about defense either, i rock 16.6k stam, so i can roll and break free a fair bit. With almost 40k combined shields and health, about the only thing that can actually kill me outright is a double camo hunter physical damage burst from stealth. Anything else is just a shield refresh and a giggle. Assuming its just one person.

resto bar to gain ult/shieldspam, nothing but big bomb damage on the dual wield bar = lol



That being said, my PvE DPS is crappy. Though I can throw on overload and hit over 25k single target sustained if i really want to. Wonder when the last time I PvE'ed on Lyzara was.... dang it had to be over a month ago.

Rylana wrote: »

AK47ZOMBIE66 wrote: »

A spammable light dmg ability would be nice, but id rather have a decent class heal for sorcs. Not as powerful as breath of life or dragonsblood, but anythings better then dark exchange/deal. Its a bit annoying being stuck with a resto staff while only using a single resto ability on that bar.

I dunno man, my resto heavies channel for over 2k/tick, its pretty nasty ranged pressure damage while all im doing is basically generating ult and magicka.

Behold the overpowered resto staff beam !
Seriously, stop selling painted stones as gold nuggets.

But what this game needs is Nightblades to be more tanky I believe this will bring ultimate balance and tranquility in the eso world. Sorcs need nothing but a good player behind the wheel.

Xvorg wrote: »

AK47ZOMBIE66 wrote: »

A spammable light dmg ability would be nice, but id rather have a decent class heal for sorcs. Not as powerful as breath of life or dragonsblood, but anythings better then dark exchange/deal. Its a bit annoying being stuck with a resto staff while only using a single resto ability on that bar.

GDB or Coagulating blood are anything, except decent heals


33% of you health.

20k Health, 10k missing, GDB heals you for 3300 HPs

Before that, it healed for 33% of your total health (6.6K)

To be an effective health you must be half dead. Better try Inhale while spike armor is active

Not to mention that in cyrodil receives the battle spirit nerf

I dont play DK so i only know what ive seen. Ive seen it save DKs several times in PvP and duels so i assumed it was good. It should still be able used somewhat effectively despite battle spirit if you use it right i guess. I still see Templars fully heal themselves with one or two breaths of life. but then again thats Templar heals so idk.

Destruent wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sorcs should have a spammable class dmg ability, right now most skills are designed for burst which makes sorcs really strong in pvp but below par in pve without the 1k overload spam.

Mages Wrath looks like a good skill to change, if you want the execute (that currently performs below par) you can choose Endless Fury and if you want an instant dmg ability you can choose Mages Wrath.

Either that or Velocious Curse, if you want burst/pet dmg you can go for Daedric Prey and if you want an instant dmg ability you can choose Velocious Curse.

Personally I would prefer Mages Wrath because you can dump 100 CP into elemental dmg and not worry about magic dmg.

Destruent wrote: »

Sorc are rly strong in PvE, but have to use 1k Ultimate to achieve such numbers...they also do very well with normal force pulse/crystal frag/curse/liquid lightning rotation...mages wrath is used as execute.
btw. Stamsorc...they are not bad, but can't compete with magicka sorc (or i need to l2p my stam sorc ^^)...

The first part is true but the second part is subjective to what you define as ' doing well'.

-Force Pulse does far less dmg than class spammable dmg abilities, the only benefit worth mentioning is that it has a 27% chance to proc the Nerienths crystal if you run that set (Molag Kena is better for Overload spam).
-Crystal Frags hits decent but you need a lot of CP to make it work for pve, you want 100 CP into elemental dmg for high Overload dmg.
-Curse doesnt increase your dps in a rotation (only burst dmg which makes it good for pvp) so there's little reason to slot it in pve.
-Mages Wrath is a pretty terrible execute, the time it takes to explode (again burst dmg) ruins the potential dps gain. Force Pulse weave does around the same dps, slotting Mages Wrath on your DW bar does help but its still considerably slower than Impale, Radiant Destruction or Executioner.

All these thing dont really matter for the rather easy vet dungeons, they do matter for harder end-game content.

ok...so I'm just wondering why sorcs in endgame-groups do the following:

- slotting velecious curse and using it for ST-Fights
- Using their execute instead of their normal rotation when they run out of ult and boss is below 20%
- they are also using crystal frags when they procc

and btw...which "Harder endgame content" are you referring to?

Just to be clear, this is from a pve standpoint.

In pve I dont know how sorcs can even fit in curse tbh. You only have 3 free skills per bar if you slot Inner Light and Bound Aegis.

Mages Fury is an execute so it should significantly raise dps, right now the difference is pretty small. The explosions hits hard enough but the time between hits is too long. People use it because its cheap to cast, easy to use and has a chance to proc disintegration. I mainly slot it on my overload bar to save ulti for the next boss.

Cfrags is still good, dont get me wrong, but sorcs need to split CPs between elemental and magic dmg which hurts potential dps output, especially if you have limited CPs.

For harder pve content I consider vWGT, vICP, hard mode trials and vMA.