Why I think this great game is dying

SneaK · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

How many times do I gotta say it.

The year of PC only does not count. Sorry but you were consoles beta test. That's why no new content till console release.

The magic you speak of is every game/experience, as a professional poker player even poker got boring at times, simple same moves over and over again. Its life.

I want to hear from console players. We will keep the game going or not, its the console's voice that rings loudest.

I'm on console and still enjoy the game, although a lot really good friends have left and I doubt they are coming back. IC update killed off a lot of players, and I don't think all that many more will survive through qtr 1 2016 for the next update. The level increase on console was a really bad choice, it made the game literally nothing but a grind. Most people weren't maxed yet and never got a chance to utilize max level gear or even do all the endgame there was. It's much worse now with the power gap that most are still grinding for V14-V16, and the grind for gold and mats is just obnoxious. That uptick was horribly timed and the population will never be the same since the disaster DLC in Sept.

Tandor · December 2015

Justice31st wrote: »

There has been posts like this on the World of Warcraft forums for over 8 years stating the game is dying.

And it is. Another 4 players left it only last week!

Waffennacht · December 2015

Look it up guys. TeS games only made profit and subsequently saved the series when they launched elder scrolls on console. The PC market was not providing enough profits.

I seriously doubt the producers ignored this lesson. Console sales always beat PC sales for TeS games.

To maximize profit you maximize your base, console is that base, PC did not have any content because they wanted to have the console version ready asap. They were designing the game around console.

Now that its out for console, up dates, content, fixes, etc are far more common.

To simply put it. PC gamers maybe sick of playin eso cuz of the year long wait (or just time in general) but their player base matters very little to the longevity of the game. The console base is what will keep eso going or doom it.

IdesofMarch2 · December 2015

I'll be honest, I rerolled a sorc after I was not satisfied with my dk, even though I just got her to V1. Now I'm level 19 altmer sorc. I play mainly for PVP and playing with teams and one of these days joining a guild. And I don't ususally go to Cyr unless I hit V ranks cause it doesn't seem worth it. This is a great game and I could play it all day every day if I could lol I know some people get bored but there are plenty of things to do in this game. And I see new players all the time.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2015

Sausage wrote: »

Its Christmas and theres tons of new games, like FO4, Just Cause 3, Metal Gear, Mad Max, Assassin Creed. Also lots of Christmas sales like Black Friday and Steam sales. Not to mention maybe its only me, but Im not interested to bang my head against VMA, I like to play with my own gears and builds, not what Zen wants me to use.

Your statement at the end sums up how I feel about gear in all MMO's. I don't like being told how I have to look if I want to play top end and competitive. I currently don't have the time to be a top end player, but even if I did I'm not sure I'd want to, because I don't like the same old hamster wheel model of business that other MMO's subscribe to. Don't get me wrong I like doing Dungeons, and I love to pvp, but I'd just rather it were more about playing the game and less about trying to get the latest greatest gear and dealing with my old gear getting devalued. If I had my way crafted gear would always be top end, and we'd be able to craft jewelry sets as well. (and I'd be fine with gear degradation like SWG had)

As for those other games, I bought some of those, and I'll be lucky to have time to play them more than six hours over the holidays. My father passed away a couple months ago and I'm having to take care of my 5 year old sister, and manage more business than I had to deal with before. I'm hoping I can screw around with Fallout 4 though, at least a little bit. I'm a TES/Fallout fan since the first day someone talked me into buying Morrowind. I hear its a better shooter than times past too, and I love shooters.

In regard to the joy of the game, I still love ESO. Its a great game but I'm finding I actually have more fun building up my roster of characters than doing some hardcore grinding on one. Part of this problem is that they've been pushing the game toward a bit of forced specialization over the last year. If you want to go with a different playstyle its just easier to have an alt. I really think they need to bring Spellcrafting to the game, and I'mhoping they come up with a weapon combination system as well for the fighters guild. ZoS could also stand to bring in more skills to the game in general, just to liven the mix up a bit. I've managed to try out almost every skill and morph in the game multiple times over on multiple characters. They need to find a way to add more activities of interest to hop around and do. Diverse gameplay is important. I breathed a great sigh of relief some six months back when my horsefeeding days were over. The problem is I still have to pick up hireling loot, and frankly that is a big headache when my gaming time is so scarce these days and the game itself takes approximately 2+ minutes minimum to load between each character. I don't mind having my time wasted, if it is fun time. Staring at a load screen I've seen 1000's of times before is not fun time.

Beyond all that I still enjoy ESO. I've learned long ago that if you peak out on an MMO its best to lay off of it a bit, and keep up with what is fun for you. You might slip behind your 'top standing' or such for a time, but there's no harm in that. Sometimes its good to take a breather. MMO's shouldn't become digital heroine for people.

Olen_Mikko · December 2015

ZOS has failed in every way and i do hope that they get their s**t together and for once would listen to what gamer's has to say.

My opinions:

1. PvP is being forced towards zergball vs. zergball, yet they can't provide environment that can handle it. Lag is terrible.
2. Lag in everywhere
3. i don't know if it is only ESO, or every MMO, but fighting mechanics and aiming is terrible. It is enough to aim and shoot somewhere towards enemy with ridiculous range from melee weapons and ridiculously short range from bows. And the curving trajectory of arrows is just absurd.
4. Lag
5. Boring content. Not really interested to level alts, like in skyrim for example.
6. Lag

I think i like to hurt myself, since i still play this. Oh how i wait for new elders scrolls game.

Violynne · December 2015

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

but to be honest: who wants to run around in Bosmer, Redguard and Breton style forever?

I read your entire post, but I wanted to draw this one thing out of all of it: I'm really, really tired of people using others as the basis for their rant.

I've been wearing Altmer armor since day 1 and I have zero complaints about it. If I wanted, I can mix/match other armor and create a new look, but I don't. I do, however, carry a Khajiit staff because the moon ornament is freaking awesome.

The point is, your rant has zero points to side with. No game company makes a perfect game, and it looks to me what you're experiencing is denial of burnout. You want to continue playing, but yet you find the grind boring.

Take a long break. The game isn't going anywhere, and when you return, maybe fresh updates will reinvigorate your passion.

I think so many people fail to see the symptoms of burnout that their first order of business is to attack anything rather than own up.

TESO is a fantastic game, for what it costs and delivers. It's not perfect, but there's no arguing the countless hours the game delivered (when it could, broken quests notwithstanding).

I also denounce the attack on ZoS' attitude against complaints, being called greedy. That's a juvenile and asinine attack. A system like this isn't free to run, so offering a virtual bear for $18 may seem excessive, but realize that every single MMO will have a small percentage paying more so a larger percentage can play for less.

Those who subbed on PC before us console people got to the game, deserve our utmost respect for paying to play while we didn't have to.

I have zero problem throwing down $25 for a virtual good, because I look at it this way: the virtual good is free, but the money pays more for the game so it can keep coming, and not, as you put it, die.

Zenimax probably lost a crap ton of money going subless for console players. Don't expect the Crown Store to disappear anytime soon.

Now, if only they'd re-release the Senche Tiger. (hint!!!!)

Sharee · December 2015

[nevermind]

Alucardo · December 2015

IdesofMarch2 wrote: »

And I don't ususally go to Cyr unless I hit V ranks cause it doesn't seem worth it.

It's so worth it. Non-vet is the best campaign there is right now, especially with its lack of lag. Also, by the time you reach vet you'll have vigor, caltrops, mag det, whatever you want.

Celas_Dranacea · December 2015

Maybe ur done w the game - run going through everything 7 times is a lot and I would say u got ur money's worth

Alucardo · December 2015

Violynne wrote: »

Now, if only they'd re-release the Senche Tiger. (hint!!!!)

No senche tiger sadly, but there will be a senche leopard if that floats your boat! - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/12/02/crown-store-showcase-december-2nd-2015

Waffennacht · December 2015

Real quick, some skyrim numbers (can't find eso)

Xbox 360: 1,997,215
Ps3: 969,454
Pc: 555,554

So even with 50% of sales thru some alternative method (or downloads) not being counted for PC, the xbox sales alone double the PC sales. Combine both consoles and you get 3x the sales of PC.

Clearly the money is in console (plus PCers are tricky and smart and can get things for free)

Alucardo · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Real quick, some skyrim numbers (can't find eso)

Sounds pretty typical of a console user to reference Skyrim in an ESO debate.

Waffennacht · December 2015

Because the company obviously does not want to use previous figures to determine possible future sales...

Wait a minute...

I can pull up EVERY SINGLE TES GAME and they will have the exact same type of numbers. IN fact name a single game on console and PC where PC sales out did console sales? I doubt there is even one.

Alucardo · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

I can pull up EVERY SINGLE TES GAME and they will have the exact same type of numbers. IN fact name a single game on console and PC where PC sales out did console sales? I doubt there is even one.

Why are you comparing single player games with MMOs? I don't understand your logic and it's making my dog cry

Zhoyzu · December 2015

LostRedden wrote: »

Well I guess the console players didn't get the memo. Every instance of IC has been busy this whole week. All the public dungeons in Wrothgar overflowing. Sure signs of death...

ZoS work on console Killed PC for 6 months. They couldnt lift a finger if the PC version while it was completely broken until they finished a UI overhaul for console port.
Pvp fell apart, PvE was bug ridden, game was basically unplayable.
Now they focus on Crown store and making sure role players arent interrupted by people running quests again for the umpteenth time.

IC destroyed PvP until Wrothgar showed up and people began to leave the sewers and only go back to grind. The grinding strongly implies the content isnt worth it. Grind is a derogatory term, once you call something a grind the negative connotations take it from there. Itll either get nerfed (like everything else) or removed (like craglorn).

Cyrodiil finally has some healthy numbers again.

The truth is ESO has died. Its the players that made friends that keep this game a thing. ZoS no longer has much of an impact on this games survival, its in the players court. When the players care more about a game than the developers you know the game is dead or is soon to do so.

Waffennacht · December 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I can pull up EVERY SINGLE TES GAME and they will have the exact same type of numbers. IN fact name a single game on console and PC where PC sales out did console sales? I doubt there is even one.

Why are you comparing single player games with MMOs? I don't understand your logic and it's making my dog cry

Because the same company makes the decisions...

I mean I could throw up number from Halo but I doubt we'll get any useful information about what ZoS is going to based on those sales projections...

Doesn't matter what category the game falls in, PROFIT is the only concern for a company. ZoS does not care how well WoW does, it has no effect on their market shares.

ZoS makes more,money on console, period. This is the driving factor for all the company. Money money money.

Console provides more money. ZoS knows this, ZoS has sales projections based on previous sales. This shows consoles to be the driving factor.

You can ignore the empirical evidence, yet you have not provided any evidence that shows PC sales are anywhere near console sales.

Provide any kind of information relevant please. Lets see how much you provide to my contrary (ill confidently say none)

kalimar44 · December 2015

Justice31st wrote: »

There has been posts like this on the World of Warcraft forums for over 8 years stating the game is dying.

They said this about Everquest,and yet that game 16 years later is still going.

Tankqull · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Real quick, some skyrim numbers (can't find eso)

Xbox 360: 1,997,215
Ps3: 969,454
Pc: 555,554

So even with 50% of sales thru some alternative method (or downloads) not being counted for PC, the xbox sales alone double the PC sales. Combine both consoles and you get 3x the sales of PC.

Clearly the money is in console (plus PCers are tricky and smart and can get things for free)

and now get the numbers of played hours during the last week on all 3 plattforms.
i bet PC/mac is 2-3x hihger than that on consoles.

Waffennacht · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Real quick, some skyrim numbers (can't find eso)

Xbox 360: 1,997,215
Ps3: 969,454
Pc: 555,554

So even with 50% of sales thru some alternative method (or downloads) not being counted for PC, the xbox sales alone double the PC sales. Combine both consoles and you get 3x the sales of PC.

Clearly the money is in console (plus PCers are tricky and smart and can get things for free)

and now get the numbers of played hours during the last week on all 3 plattforms.
i bet PC/mac is 2-3x hihger than that on consoles.

Even if that were true (which I do not believe can be proven one way or another) would that indicate a more profitable market? I do not believe so.

If anyone seriously believes PC market provides more profit than console, please share why you believe that and add any numerical values that support such a belief.

Anhedonie · December 2015

Funny. I voted no before, but now I have to agree. Game is dying at least on PC EU. It even feels like that. You rarely can find other people for just anything.
Or maybe it's just DC population is dying off. I left the game a couple of weeks ago, but will keep a close eye on it. Maybe it's just seasonal population decrease or tied to fallout/other games.

Olen_Mikko · December 2015

Anhedonie wrote: »

Or maybe it's just DC population is dying off. I left the game a couple of weeks ago, but will keep a close eye one it. Maybe it's just seasonal population decrease or tied to fallout/other games.

DC is alive and well in PvP. All i see is blue maps

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I can pull up EVERY SINGLE TES GAME and they will have the exact same type of numbers. IN fact name a single game on console and PC where PC sales out did console sales? I doubt there is even one.

Why are you comparing single player games with MMOs? I don't understand your logic and it's making my dog cry

Because the same company makes the decisions...

I mean I could throw up number from Halo but I doubt we'll get any useful information about what ZoS is going to based on those sales projections...

Doesn't matter what category the game falls in, PROFIT is the only concern for a company. ZoS does not care how well WoW does, it has no effect on their market shares.

ZoS makes more,money on console, period. This is the driving factor for all the company. Money money money.

Console provides more money. ZoS knows this, ZoS has sales projections based on previous sales. This shows consoles to be the driving factor.

You can ignore the empirical evidence, yet you have not provided any evidence that shows PC sales are anywhere near console sales.

Provide any kind of information relevant please. Lets see how much you provide to my contrary (ill confidently say none)

The problem is that you don't provide any relevant information nor empirical evidence either. One side not being able to *prove* a point doesn't validate the other side's point.

- @Alucardo is right, sales projection from single player games says nothing about console sales. At best, it's a hint for guessing. Part of ESO players come from the TES single player game franchise, part comes from traditional MMO players. That part is certainly not negligible thus of course, ZOS takes a very close look at how WoW is doing because they're competing for shares on the same market.

- Companies need to make profit and aim at profit, but profit does not equal sales volume. What if console servers or console development is more costly than PC servers or development ? What if a significant share of the sales or subs goes to Sony or Microsoft ? Those companies don't work for free either ! In those cases, PC might just as well bring much more profit than consoles, even if there might be more copies sold on consoles than on PC.

Truth is that we have no information whatsoever regarding the cost structure at Zenimax, therefore your repeated assumption that consoles bring more money is based on nothing at all and totally out of the blue.

By the way, what's all this got to do with the initial topic ?

.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Anhedonie wrote: »

Funny. I voted no before, but now I have to agree. Game is dying at least on PC EU. It even feels like that. You rarely can find other people for just anything.
Or maybe it's just DC population is dying off. I left the game a couple of weeks ago, but will keep a close eye on it. Maybe it's just seasonal population decrease or tied to fallout/other games.

Maybe you've isolated yourself for some reason ?
Because I play on PC/EU/DC and believe me, it's busy as ever, and I find people within 10 minutes or so to do whatever I want (I help them with whatever they want, too !).

.

icontested · December 2015

Almost all of the best haters have come out for this one. The haters claim they don't play the game but spend every second on the forums.

I can only imagine what the forum hater is like in real life. The forum hater being someone who comes on a games forums, hates everything about the game and doesn't even play it. I'm going to describe the forum hater to people I know. What do you think their reaction will be? Now that reactionary word you just thought of, that's describing you. Does that feel good?

MrDerrikk · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Real quick, some skyrim numbers (can't find eso)

Xbox 360: 1,997,215
Ps3: 969,454
Pc: 555,554

So even with 50% of sales thru some alternative method (or downloads) not being counted for PC, the xbox sales alone double the PC sales. Combine both consoles and you get 3x the sales of PC.

Clearly the money is in console (plus PCers are tricky and smart and can get things for free)

and now get the numbers of played hours during the last week on all 3 plattforms.
i bet PC/mac is 2-3x hihger than that on consoles.

Even if that were true (which I do not believe can be proven one way or another) would that indicate a more profitable market? I do not believe so.

If anyone seriously believes PC market provides more profit than console, please share why you believe that and add any numerical values that support such a belief.

If the PC players play for longer, they will likely spend more money in the Crown store and on ESO+, so it could go both ways. Really, there's no point in using statistics that we can't prove or even find due to this.

We can only use the facts; PC players are generally lower in number, but stay longer. Console players buy the game a lot more, but tend to leave sooner. As we don't know the exact amounts, we cannot prove that this affects the money intake for either way.

Makkir · December 2015

Quick story for comparison...I have ONE VR16 character I have played from the beginning (and a few sub-level 10 characters to hold extra inventory). I don't find anything repetitive. I can't bring myself to level another alt because I feel there is always something I can do on my main to further progress (fine tone PvP skills, continue to farm monster head pieces for the perfect traits, etc).

If anyone wants a cliff notes version of the OP- Ya burned yourself out, son.

Artjuh90 · December 2015

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

How many times do I gotta say it.

The year of PC only does not count. Sorry but you were consoles beta test. That's why no new content till console release.

The magic you speak of is every game/experience, as a professional poker player even poker got boring at times, simple same moves over and over again. Its life.

I want to hear from console players. We will keep the game going or not, its the console's voice that rings loudest.

If only there was an LOL button. Yes the 1st year PC was a beta, but it counts. (It's still in beta as far as I'm concerned, most mmo's never really leave beta). PC players usually stay with an mmo alot longer then a console player will. PC players also are more likely to take a break and then come back to a mmo, while once console player has moved on, they're gone forever. ESO has been "dying" for 2 years now, WOW has been "dying" for 8 years, Secret World's been "dying" going on 4 years and UO has been "dying" for almost 20 years now. I could go on, but I think you see the point. All mmo's start "dying" the moment they're released, all that counts is the fun produced during the ride.

you speak out of what refereance that console players will play a MMO for less of a time. cause consoles have a great selection of those plz your 'expertese' is as valid as a pile of ***.

Makkir · December 2015

Arreyanne · December 2015

I unsubbed 60 days after release, Why Let me put it like Mr Rogers would so everyone can understand----

"Today's word boys and girls is Boring can you saying Boring B-O-R-I-N-G

My main was 46 NB

Was cruising the net one night and popped onto Deltia's and saw something about 10-VR1 in 8 Hours

Watched the Video resubbed and got a toon to VR1 took me more than 8 hours but it's really the only fun leveling experience Ive had in this game

A Week later Sewers nerfed into the ground

Game is a grind has always been a grind will always be a grind