Why I think this great game is dying

Moonshadow66

Actually, I was about to post something in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/233587/do-you-think-eso-is-dieing/p1, but my text became so long that I thought it's better to start a new thread.
Well, until a few months ago, I would have said "no, it's not dying" (I think there actually were polls about it where I voted "no", if I remember right).
Today I voted "yes".

Let me tell you my story, I'll try to make it as short as I can.

I remember beta times where it felt "magical" playing and testing this game; it was gorgeous, I couldn't get enough of it! "Wuuaah, I'm a beta tester for Elder Scrolls Online! The Elder Scrolls, my favorite games series of all times! How exciting!"
I still couldn't get enough for many moons after launch either. Even the sound effects and the voice actors were addictive (Zenimax KNEW what they've done there, and it worked)! And the diversity of every zone was surprising, stunning and a great adventure, the quests were great, and I had a lot of fun.

I even had so much fun that I repeated the entire PvE content almost 7 times, and a half. Almost.
My seventh Tamriel-Hero-to-be stopped in the last Gold zone. And the last character (which is actually a pretty old one) I probably won't continue playing anymore. I'll tell you later why.

Well, onward to Orsinium with my main then, right? Yes. New content! Finally! And even designed for solo players such as myself! Fantastic! An awesome zone, probably it's even my favorite one. Besides of the diversity of the climatic differences within the zone, also the questline and sidequests were awesome; very interesting and a lot more challenging than anything I've seen by end of Cadwells Gold which ends already at VR10 (the mobs and NPCs, however not my characters).
Wrothgar, great! New quests, new challenge, even a solo arena (which I couldn't complete, but that's a different story), new armor set, a totally new feel. I took my time to complete the zone, and I don't regret having bought the DLC. Then I brought my next character to Wrothgar, completed some quests, and suddenly I got a similar feeling like the one I had with my seventh Gold zone character. As awesome as Wrothgar is, I suddenly felt such a tiredness that still hinders me to continue.


So what's the reason for all this? What's the reason that I think the game is dying?


It's the dullness of repeating things, over and over. The lack of new content (in terms of new zones) for more than a year didn't help matters.

It's the skills that get nerfed over and over again that in the end, one might ask: "what class have I even been, originally? And what happened to my build?"

It's the drops that either don't make any sense or don't occur at all. VR15 items for VR16 characters, the Training trait on endgame items (literally or metaphorically; most of all traits are useless from the beginning), lack of legendary tempers, and so on.
Unfortunately, bad RNG is some or even many players' longtime companion. I've read that some even never got a single legendary temper since launch (or just a handful, even with all passives active), or never even found a single Dwemer motif page. This shouldn't happen in the first place, everyone needs a FAIR chance to get what they deserve.

It's the bugs that never get fixed and the ones that aren't really urgent do get a fix.
Example: "Fixed a small issue with a tiny pebble that would block the sight when your character was in stealth and you exit the Dwemer Ruin Xyzäöüaleft in Whereever", INSTEAD of "Fixed the freakin' lag in Cyrodiil, won't happen again, we made a mistake and we're incredible sorry for the inconvenience!"

It's the Customer Support that apparently don't give a damn anymore about anyone's issues who's not subscribed, or not anymore. Neither per email nor on the forums. It's also the billions of bug reports that, apparently, get "lost in the mail". Yes, I'm aware that sending questions to the Support and bug reports are two different things, I am actually talking about both.

It's Zenimax who keep putting new stuff and fluff into the game without planning and thinking it through to the end.
Example, out of many: the Champion System. Bad for those who never had a real chance to catch up, so months later, they introduced the CP cap. Good for the new or the casual players, but a disaster for those who reached the cap already when the cap was implemented. No, I'm not one of them, but I feel for the ones who are, or were.
Another example: dye slots, or, the lack thereof. Didn't want to continue cutting out the templates for each style's dye slots? Ok, I don't want to continue crafting and dyeing my armor, because it looks sloppy. Not everything, but especially the newer ones do. Not sure what happened there, really. Fallen asleep at work?

It's Zenimax being greedy with their CrownStore. While I do understand the need of it, now, after the subscription model was dropped unfortunately, I do not understand why they make it a pain in the *ss for everyone who does not want to buy CrownStore items, or just simply can't.
Just an example: purple motifs. Another one: Malachite Shards. Do I have to continue at this point? I don't think I have to, you all know the drop rate ever since these items showed up in the CrownStore.
This game was a game which was playable, and even more, enjoyable, for everyone who bought it, not just for the rich, and also not just for those who grind 24/7 to have enough gold to get these items in guild stores if not in the CrownStore. Too bad that this has changed. I know that these kind of items are fluff, cosmetical items, but to be honest: who wants to run around in Bosmer, Redguard and Breton style forever?

Someone who has watched the stream where they announced the B2P model might remember one of the crew (I think it was Paul Sage, but don't quote me on that) accidentally calling it "the damn game". Remember? Yeah, I know you do. This was not just a slip of the tongue, this was an accidental confession! They tried to keep "joking" around by repeating it in the next sentences while they were actually trying to safe the situation. Perceptive people immediately knew what's going on, though.

I don't know what happened behind the scenes during the time the game's out, I only know that I feel sorry for Zenimax creating such a beautiful game which had all chances to be on top of the list of successful MMOs (if not, then at least very close to the top) but something was missing to reach that goal. You guys need to find the missing link, because right now you're heading in the wrong direction, by all means.

Now, to me it feels like the game lost its magic, you know, the magic I felt in the beginning. Or is it just me, having too many /played hours on the clock? Maybe both.


~Moonshadow~

Justice31st

There has been posts like this on the World of Warcraft forums for over 8 years stating the game is dying.

puffy99

Good stuff.

ESO is a beautiful game and just needs a new team (or maybe they have one, I don't know) to lead it.

FFXIV or whatever apparently sucked then they brought in a new DEV team/leadership now everyone is saying it is great.

I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but if they take the FFXIV approach they can turn this around in a heartbeat.
There is almost zero competition for this type of game in the console space and why they don't do it, I have no idea.

It could be a huge moneymaker, game of the yr etc - it has all the underpinnings just needs a committed team/resources.

LostRedden

Well I guess the console players didn't get the memo. Every instance of IC has been busy this whole week. All the public dungeons in Wrothgar overflowing. Sure signs of death...

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

to me there is not enough end game content

Sausage

Its Christmas and theres tons of new games, like FO4, Just Cause 3, Metal Gear, Mad Max, Assassin Creed. Also lots of Christmas sales like Black Friday and Steam sales. Not to mention maybe its only me, but Im not interested to bang my head against VMA, I like to play with my own gears and builds, not what Zen wants me to use.

robkrush

Sounds like the game is dying.....for you. There is no mass exodus. There is no severely deminished numbers. Servers are not empty. Lots of people leave. Lots of new people come. The game is fine. We are watching ZOS's future decision's caerfully because we want to see the game succeed.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

Now, to me it feels like the game lost its magic, you know, the magic I felt in the beginning. Or is it just me, having too many /played hours on the clock? Maybe both.

Most probably the latter.

"I saw an an image of a wonderful sunny tropical beach with palmtrees and coconuts and white sand. So I went there and it was paradise. Actually, I spent nearly two years there, enjoying it to the fullest. There were quite a few mosquitos but what do you expect ? it's the tropics.

Now my skin burns, it feels too hot and the whole landscape feels common. I feel cheated because whoever made that beach should have designed it so that I could spend 30 years there at least, and they could really have gotten rid of the mosquitos, and created a sun that doesn't burn, and it's all their fault, and they're incompetent beach designers who didn't listen to us and just wanted to make us pay extra for sun cream.

And of course since I am tired of the beach and feel like going some place else, everybody will feel and do the same as me."


(Not even mentioning that 95% of your points are flat out wrong...)

TL/DR : no type of entertainment is able to (nor should it be able to) entertain you 3-12 hours a day for years. What you feel is a healthy reaction from your person, not the game's fault. Take a break and come back after (or not, as you wish). This thread is not about ESO dying and why, but why you finally get tired of ESO.

Rook_Master

What I would give to again experience the magic I felt during Beta. Everyone was just super excited to be there, and to be running around in an Elder Scrolls World with other people.

Fast forward to the present, and the magic is almost gone, and I'm left with gankers, bind-on-pickup, a terrible PvP meta, and mandatory gear and CP grinds.

OGLezard

Sausage wrote: »

Its Christmas and theres tons of new games, like FO4, Just Cause 3, Metal Gear, Mad Max, Assassin Creed. Also lots of Christmas sales like Black Friday and Steam sales. Not to mention maybe its only me, but Im not interested to bang my head against VMA, I like to play with my own gears and builds, not what Zen wants me to use.

@Sausage this isn't the game for you then. I do the same thing as you, I hate doing what 98% of all players do in this game, use whatever gear the streamers/elite say are BiS, and use the same skills as them.

I want to run a certain item combo but can't because doing so gimp me by about 1600SD, 15k max magicka and apparently 1k regen.....

So why would I want to use that gear zenimax made when it won't even kill mobs lol

You are in the same boat as me. Either play how the streamers and elite say we should play or just stop playing because being original is not an option. Go into pvp you will.... SA (suprise attack) SA SA SA, WB, WB, WB VIGOR VIGOR VIGOR VIGOR, DODGE ROLL DODGE ROLL, PERMADERPBLOCK, PERMADERPBLOCK, SHIELD SHIELD SHIELD, lololololol it is to the point where if you see a mini group they either all start flapping wings and crit charge then WB you, or it is SA spam.

Skiserony

I agree.

If I remember how the game was before (even though it was imbalanced as crazy) then I really lost the beautiful feeling I got from playing Elder Scrolls Online. And that's the reason I keep supporting and playing this game in the hope there might be a little chance where they could pick up where they went wrong.

I've waited 2 years with eager (practically unbearable) for this game, played beta and loved it already. Enjoyed the game imensly for 1-1.5years. But now, it's complelety different, I play this game because of the 3.5 years I've been busy with this game. Can't expect to keep that up.

My only request is to fix Cyrodiil for now, it was practically the thing I enjoyed the most (and eventually the only thing I liked) in the game and now it's unbearable to play 9 out of 10 times. I love Cyrodiil, and tbh I really do not need any addition or special things to pvp. I like the way it is, it is one of the most awesome gameplay I ever played in an MMO.

I stopped playing PvE content for a while, because of the reasons you said. So can't go further into that.

Sausage

OGLezard wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Its Christmas and theres tons of new games, like FO4, Just Cause 3, Metal Gear, Mad Max, Assassin Creed. Also lots of Christmas sales like Black Friday and Steam sales. Not to mention maybe its only me, but Im not interested to bang my head against VMA, I like to play with my own gears and builds, not what Zen wants me to use.

@Sausage this isn't the game for you then. I do the same thing as you, I hate doing what 98% of all players do in this game, use whatever gear the streamers/elite say are BiS, and use the same skills as them.

I want to run a certain item combo but can't because doing so gimp me by about 1600SD, 15k max magicka and apparently 1k regen.....

So why would I want to use that gear zenimax made when it won't even kill mobs lol

You are in the same boat as me. Either play how the streamers and elite say we should play or just stop playing because being original is not an option. Go into pvp you will.... SA (suprise attack) SA SA SA, WB, WB, WB VIGOR VIGOR VIGOR VIGOR, DODGE ROLL DODGE ROLL, PERMADERPBLOCK, PERMADERPBLOCK, SHIELD SHIELD SHIELD, lololololol it is to the point where if you see a mini group they either all start flapping wings and crit charge then WB you, or it is SA spam.

I couldnt care less if people get awesome gears, they are most likely soon to be replaced anyway. I just chose new games over VMA grind.

This isnt good direction for the game, the idea behind universal skills is that players gets lost, and doesnt whine for nerfs and doesnt get pissed off if something gets nerfed. When player learn to play with optimal builds and gears, its very hard to go back to some weaker builds and gears and also when when optimal builds/gears gets nerfed, people are very likely to whine. Basically they are turning this game into class-based game, soon every player is playing with exact same build/gears.


Speaking of optimal builds/gears, if people want to play effectively why dont they play Civilization? That game is thousand time better than ESO for that purpose, when fun is replaced by effectiveness thats not good.

Digerati

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I've put literally hundreds of hours into this game and I continue to play it but I think that it's dying for <reasons>


~Moonshadow~

FTFY

jakeedmundson

LostRedden wrote: »

Well I guess the console players didn't get the memo. Every instance of IC has been busy this whole week. All the public dungeons in Wrothgar overflowing. Sure signs of death...

apparently your experience is different than mine on console.... i can hardly get a group to do the daily WB in wrothgar. Then trying to get a dungeon group? yeah good luck... you end up with 2 lv 15s and a lv 40. one doesn't understand healing and the two dps do less damage than me on my tank.... so i switch to my sorc for dps and its the same story. Terrible low level healer and a tank that doesn't have a shield or a taunt.
To make matters worse... most people don't even join group chat. So you can't try to help them understand their role in a dungeon.

it is fairly visible to see that the game is struggling... orsinium might be busier than everywhere else... but even there it seems slow. When i first started on console there were so many people playing i couldn't see half of a main city because there were so many player/characters in it.

khele23eb17_ESO

puffy99 wrote: »

Good stuff.

ESO is a beautiful game and just needs a new team (or maybe they have one, I don't know) to lead it.

FFXIV or whatever apparently sucked then they brought in a new DEV team/leadership now everyone is saying it is great.

Only samurai developers led by samurai publishers would ever do something like this. Theres no way of anything like it happening in the US or EU.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

Judging from the online people on reddit, it's much more alive now than IC, especially considering the recent launch of FO4.

Florial

OP, I think you make some great points. Also think that you may have burned out a bit on the game as well to be fair. I'm in awe of you getting 7 characters through Caldwell's silver/gold. I just completed it on my first (what a let down after doing all those quests btw) and can't imagine getting the Tamriel hero achievement on my other two characters. One time is enough and I'm shelving my alts until I see what happens with the vet system/champion points. You have much more endurance than I ever would. I can see where you would be experiencing a very tired feeling indeed.

Personally, I shelved ESO about six months after launch. I'm a quester at heart but found the long, long quest lines exhausting after awhile. I can't really put my finger on it but it didn't grab me as much as I thought it would. With not much else to do aside from PvP, I left the game and fired up WoW again. This time around, I'm slowly working my way through all the content, enjoying it at my own pace. As I make my way through the Caldwell's zones, I'm stuck at how empty the world feels. For now I'm playing this as a single player game, will try to see what I can see and then move on. I think it is an excellent game but could use some overhauls. I do think the developers have their heart in the right place and if they release new content on an aggressive schedule, perhaps that will keep the game healthy. Dunno.

pirate3

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

Now, to me it feels like the game lost its magic, you know, the magic I felt in the beginning. Or is it just me, having too many /played hours on the clock? Maybe both.

I enjoyed your post.

It's a combination of the two I expect. I've played (and left) a lot of MMOs over the last 15 or so years but I've never 'rage-quit'. It's always been caused by a gradual accumulation of relatively minor grievances that feeds a slow-growing cynicism. It can be especially powerful if you've been in a game from the very beginning, or if a game goes through a significant change e.g. a shift in its monetization model. It's rather like being woken from a pleasant dream by a persistently dripping tap. You can lie there for hours trying to sleep through it, but eventually you have to face the fact that the only viable course of action is to get out of bed and turn the damn thing off. You should probably just turn the "damn game" off, at least for a while. It sounds to be like you're only playing through habit now.

idk

puffy99 wrote: »

Good stuff.

ESO is a beautiful game and just needs a new team (or maybe they have one, I don't know) to lead it.

FFXIV or whatever apparently sucked then they brought in a new DEV team/leadership now everyone is saying it is great.

I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but if they take the FFXIV approach they can turn this around in a heartbeat.
There is almost zero competition for this type of game in the console space and why they don't do it, I have no idea.

It could be a huge moneymaker, game of the yr etc - it has all the underpinnings just needs a committed team/resources.

I have to agree. I've felt from launch that this initial dev team has dropped the ball. It seems that they lack a vision for the game to begin with and follow that up with an inability to bring about the changes they bring to light.

The pathetic gf at launch and poor/broken graphic indicators for buffs and debuffs that are in place vs UI being available. Games with a full UI have graphic effects for buffs and debuffs that actually work. I don't understand why ESO cannot figure out this basic function,'other than incompetence.

Sharkano

It's more "immersive" (read: cheap to make) for your car to have no odometer, no gas gauge, and no turn signals. If you want out of the "immersive" world and desire to get actual things to make everything work, go to the "add on" store -- but we don't guarantee those things will work, because, after all, we didn't design them. LOL.

jakeedmundson

Sharkano wrote: »

It's more "immersive" (read: cheap to make) for your car to have no odometer, no gas gauge, and no turn signals. If you want out of the "immersive" world and desire to get actual things to make everything work, go to the "add on" store (If you're on PC) -- but we don't guarantee those things will work, because, after all, we didn't design them. LOL.

Spacemonkey

You play 7 characters through Silver AND GOLD and complain things get repetitive????!!! O_O
(I stopped reading after that part. I'm too shocked)

Go play Skyrim , or Oblivion, or w/e game, as a completionist, SEVEN TIMES ENTIRELY and come back to tell us you aren't starting to feel they are getting repetitive.

ESO brings you a multiplayer aspect, if you dont play solo, than brings new stuff. It's an mmo. Your traditional mmo will have you grind like crazy. <- thats a period

I'm not even sure how to argument or discuss this.
SEVEN TIMES????????????
Geez, I haven't even finished gold or craglorn or orsinium or cyrodiil or IC with ONE character, and I only have 2, and I've been playing since Beta. ESO is 60$, I think you've had much much much more than your worth in entertainment.

Not the nicest advice I guest but I'm trying to put myself in your shoes.
-> It's up to you to stop being a completionist and enjoy the social aspect of the game, (or competitive if you're into pvp), or to move on to other things.

Shadesofkin

While I think there are some good points made, I don't agree with the overall belief that this game is dying. I see these posts in so many different forums about every game.

JD2013

Yes. Every MMO ever is always dying always.

Tamanous

I believe the key here is Orsinium. Like others I also find it my favorite zone by far.

Why? Because I can head there as an alternate leveling path any time I want. I can also bring friends because the difficulty is just right for pre-vet 16 players. 1-50 leveling BORES ME TO DEATH because it is so easy and stuck in one leveling path.

The issue is that there is only one scaling zone. This game would be amazing if every zone scaled. It still preserves the need for better gear (better gear scales better. I tested this) and end game stuff still supports it as well. ZOS lost out on the opportunity to make the majority of this game operate like Orsinium.

When they take out vet levels I certainly hope that everything after level 50 (at least) scales like Orsinium. Players want choices. The game would reflect TES games far better allowing choice through exploration instead of stuck in a level path. THAT is killing this game. The whole Vet experience screams as if ZOS though they did not have enough content and forced players into another leveling path.

I cannot see the 1-50 path changing much bit that alone is ruining the game experience for many (including me). It feels like a chore to start a new toon as the same content is repeated and I am forced into the same quests over and over. Obviously more dlcs that scale would offer more choices but you still must head back and finish the main and guild stories and others for skill points and progression to reach current vet levels. It is a painful experience when other games somehow managed to make it feel fine because choice was offered.

ZOS should heavily look into overhauling the current structure even if it delays dlc deployment. Do it now or suffer far more in the long run.

My suggestions: Keep 1-50 but make "CP" zones (once Vet leaves) open by choice and through scaling. I would like a greater lock into one faction compared to what it is now. How much so is up for debate and becomes far less an issue once more dlc is delivered.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Shadesofkin wrote: »

While I think there are some good points made, I don't agree with the overall belief that this game is dying. I see these posts in so many different forums about every game.

Doomsayers take no risk : one day they'll be right, one day the game will be dead. Just like you, me, everyone and everything.

Waffennacht

How many times do I gotta say it.

The year of PC only does not count. Sorry but you were consoles beta test. That's why no new content till console release.

The magic you speak of is every game/experience, as a professional poker player even poker got boring at times, simple same moves over and over again. Its life.

I want to hear from console players. We will keep the game going or not, its the console's voice that rings loudest.

JD2013

Waffennacht wrote: »

How many times do I gotta say it.

The year of PC only does not count. Sorry but you were consoles beta test. That's why no new content till console release.

The magic you speak of is every game/experience, as a professional poker player even poker got boring at times, simple same moves over and over again. Its life.

I want to hear from console players. We will keep the game going or not, its the console's voice that rings loudest.

Oh my, no. No. Just no.

Payed beta tests? Hm maybe but I've enjoyed every session.

Consoles will keep the game running? No. Console gamers are notoriously far more fickle. No way would WoW still be around if it had been a console only release.

Jura23

Sausage wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Its Christmas and theres tons of new games, like FO4, Just Cause 3, Metal Gear, Mad Max, Assassin Creed. Also lots of Christmas sales like Black Friday and Steam sales. Not to mention maybe its only me, but Im not interested to bang my head against VMA, I like to play with my own gears and builds, not what Zen wants me to use.

@Sausage this isn't the game for you then. I do the same thing as you, I hate doing what 98% of all players do in this game, use whatever gear the streamers/elite say are BiS, and use the same skills as them.

I want to run a certain item combo but can't because doing so gimp me by about 1600SD, 15k max magicka and apparently 1k regen.....

So why would I want to use that gear zenimax made when it won't even kill mobs lol

You are in the same boat as me. Either play how the streamers and elite say we should play or just stop playing because being original is not an option. Go into pvp you will.... SA (suprise attack) SA SA SA, WB, WB, WB VIGOR VIGOR VIGOR VIGOR, DODGE ROLL DODGE ROLL, PERMADERPBLOCK, PERMADERPBLOCK, SHIELD SHIELD SHIELD, lololololol it is to the point where if you see a mini group they either all start flapping wings and crit charge then WB you, or it is SA spam.

I couldnt care less if people get awesome gears, they are most likely soon to be replaced anyway. I just chose new games over VMA grind.

This isnt good direction for the game, the idea behind universal skills is that players gets lost, and doesnt whine for nerfs and doesnt get pissed off if something gets nerfed. When player learn to play with optimal builds and gears, its very hard to go back to some weaker builds and gears and also when when optimal builds/gears gets nerfed, people are very likely to whine. Basically they are turning this game into class-based game, soon every player is playing with exact same build/gears.


Speaking of optimal builds/gears, if people want to play effectively why dont they play Civilization? That game is thousand time better than ESO for that purpose, when fun is replaced by effectiveness thats not good.

It's already pretty common. Try to make a thread "I'm stamina, what do I do". You will get reply - get yourself 5 Hunding, 4 Night mother. Period.

That being said. There are still some extremely successful players with unique builds out there and more props to them.

SneaK

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

by all means.

Nailed it.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

How many times do I gotta say it.

The year of PC only does not count. Sorry but you were consoles beta test. That's why no new content till console release.

The magic you speak of is every game/experience, as a professional poker player even poker got boring at times, simple same moves over and over again. Its life.

I want to hear from console players. We will keep the game going or not, its the console's voice that rings loudest.

If only there was an LOL button. Yes the 1st year PC was a beta, but it counts. (It's still in beta as far as I'm concerned, most mmo's never really leave beta). PC players usually stay with an mmo alot longer then a console player will. PC players also are more likely to take a break and then come back to a mmo, while once console player has moved on, they're gone forever. ESO has been "dying" for 2 years now, WOW has been "dying" for 8 years, Secret World's been "dying" going on 4 years and UO has been "dying" for almost 20 years now. I could go on, but I think you see the point. All mmo's start "dying" the moment they're released, all that counts is the fun produced during the ride.