Zenimax, when will magicka sorcs get a decent spammable ability?

Derra · December 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Best pve class and one of the strongest pvp classes. And you want more? How about NO.

lol, I've only really seen stam sorcs do well in general, then there's the few people that can get 30k+ dps, but that's not the normal dps for a decent player. Shall we all then go with the 40k+ dps a templar pulled off as the normal dps for a templar then too? Link to the guy doing it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/232694/40k-dps-on-magika-templar#latest

Nice joke. You know how many stam morphs sorc gets? Minus bound arm (which is a toggle) 1 - and its complete trash and nobody uses it. As a stam sorc, I actually use the magicka morph, because the stam version is so offensively bad.

Additionally, stam sorc wont outdamage magicka sorc. I am a stam sorc, and I have 3 sorc skills actually learned - because the other are so skewed to magicka only I cant even use them practically in a utility sense for PVP or PVE. How about ults? They all scale with magicka as well.

Dont even throw around the word stam sorc as a piece to argue with in favor of giving magicka sorcs something more - its a joke. I dont think anything in the game outdamages magicka sorc overload burst.

Actually i would love if sorcerers would get a spammable classe dmg ability with a magica and a stamina morph. This would finally enable zos to rework the abomination overload currently represents (make it a one time use only low cost thing not as easy to avoid - yes the third bar is fun and i use it every day - but it´s seriously overpowerd in terms of pvp utility and for pve dps).

Mages wrath somehow comes to mind - it could serve this function as the desintigration passive could easily be reworked to provide a reliable finisher component on lightning (class?!) dmg (more reliable than now but way less dmg - yes?).

For overload i could imagine sth like the npc dmg teleport.

Trihugger · December 2015

If they reworked overload like you're describing... Sorc in general would be bottom of the barrel in the trash heap with Dragonknight as far as PvE is concerned.

PvE goggles. PvP isn't on my radar until they fix the slideshow.

Right now Overload is extremely powerful. There's no arguing that. The problem is that there's nothing in our toolkit, even with the addition of a spammable class ability, that could rectify the difference. Overload represents burst, utility (Quite frankly 11 non-ult abilities total because 2 toggles eat 6 skill slots over 3 bars isn't THAT OP), and sustain that sorc otherwise would not have.

All in all I do not advocate any changes to overload without some drastic overhauls across both class and weapon skill trees as sorc will break without the one pillar supporting it that is overload.

RoamingRiverElk · December 2015

The day DKs get a spammable ranged dps skill and a working execute that does not rely on full heavy attacks.

P.S. I do play both DK and sorc (sorc more as a matter of fact, both in PvE and PvP).

Flameheart · December 2015

The TO wants a unique Sorc spammable base attack skill.

NBs have Funnel Health / Swallow Soul (melee and ranged combat) as spammable base attack skill and Impale (melee and ranged combat) as execute
DKs have whip (more melee, for ranged they need to use Force Pulse / Crushing Shock) as spammable base attack skill and no Execute
Templars have Puncturing Sweep (more melee, for ranged they need to use Force Pulse / Crushing Shock, Dark Flare is not that great because of the cast time) as spammable base attack skill and radiant oppression (melee and ranged) as execute
Sorcerers have no spammable base attack skill (Force Pulse / Crushing Shock) and Mages Fury (melee and ranged) as execute

Although the TO just highlightens the Sorc point of view, I would agree to the fact, that some more harmonizing concerning unique class base attack skill + unique class executes, wouldn't be a bad idea.

The ideal case would be that, all classes have a spammable base attack spell and an execute skill, morphable either for magicka or stamina builds. I think even more variants (melee/ranged) aren't necessary. Maybe reward the ones with just a melee option, by some slightly higher dps output. There will still be bosses where going melee will be suicide or just a liability for the healer, for those encounters you will have secondary weapon line skills as a ranged replacer (Force Pulse, Bow skills), which - of course will be less efficient.

tplink3r1 · December 2015

Sorcs have frags.
It has a cast time? So does jabs.

Derra · December 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs have frags.
It has a cast time? So does jabs.

Jep make fragments uninterruptable.

Luigi_Vampa · December 2015

Give my stam DK a stam whip and then we can have this conversation.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

Typhoios wrote: »

Give my stam DK a stam whip and then we can have this conversation.

I'd give you a stam whip if I could, but atm sorcs got nothing at all to spam from our class trees, nothing viable at least in any way for either stam or magicka.

Xvorg · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

As atm only thing sorcs got is mages wrath that is more a joke than anything, it hits for 2-2.5k dmg and 11-12k at 20% or less, which I do with my normal rotation, so it's quite useless for anything really as it doesn't contribute anything to kill anything really when I do just as much damage or more just using my non-execute skills. Only other alternative is the oh so famous crushing shock or force pulse but all other classes got decent magicka alternatives, just not sorcs.

The other classes got decent/good abilites that are spammable, DK's got whip, templars got jabs, NB's got funnel health or swallow soul. Sorcs, well, we got nothing really, except mages wrath, which doesn't even do halfway decent damage if you're not in that 20%, I won't mention frags as it's not really spammable, and it isn't any good for spamming either as it needs the proc to be good to use.

I'd take away the defensive rune and it's morphs and give sorcs a decent spammable ability instead as that skill is just plain useless against anything that requires more than 1 hit to kill and it's not needed against anything that it does affect.

More than a Joke? ROFL

Try to use the whip being a stam DK

Xvorg · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Give my stam DK a stam whip and then we can have this conversation.

I'd give you a stam whip if I could, but atm sorcs got nothing at all to spam from our class trees, nothing viable at least in any way for either stam or magicka.

Actually I tried trapping webs with y mag DK and it does nice dmg, perfectly spammable and with a snare and a some spidys...

I suppose that with a sorc is even better.

Sorcs are ok. An spammable class ability for them will be like an "I win" button, while spamming abilities for the rest of us are the only option we have to fight them

Emma_Overload · December 2015

Destruent wrote: »

I just don't understand why everyone strictly not want to use weapon abilities...if no one needs/wants to use them, why do we have them? btw you could also use trapping webs from the undaunted skilline an specc for magic dmg in your CP-tree...
I mean...there are bigger problems ingame than sorc-DPS-rotation O_o

Yeah, Trapping Webs is awesome, that's why NBs use it instead of Surprise Attack (or whatever it's called)....

NOT!

Get real, if Trapping Webs is our best option, our options suck. We need a decent instant damage spell that doesn't cost 3000 magicka, LOL. Trapping Webs doesn't do that much damage, anyway, barely as much as Crushing Shock.

Xvorg · December 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I just don't understand why everyone strictly not want to use weapon abilities...if no one needs/wants to use them, why do we have them? btw you could also use trapping webs from the undaunted skilline an specc for magic dmg in your CP-tree...
I mean...there are bigger problems ingame than sorc-DPS-rotation O_o

Yeah, Trapping Webs is awesome, that's why NBs use it instead of Surprise Attack (or whatever it's called)....

NOT!

Get real, if Trapping Webs is our best option, our options suck. We need a decent instant damage spell that doesn't cost 3000 magicka, LOL. Trapping Webs doesn't do that much damage, anyway, barely as much as Crushing Shock.

4 K in PVE with a heavy armor VR9 DK with 1700 SP and no thaumaturge skill line?

too bad, right?

Emma_Overload · December 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Sorcs have frags.
It has a cast time? So does jabs.

Hard cast Frags are SO much easier to avoid then Jabs. When you trigger Jabs, it starts jabbing no matter what. When you try to cast Frags, any movement by the target seems to cancel it.

Ezareth · December 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I wanted this pretty badly in 1.5 when I was using Resto/Sword and Board as my build and mages wrath was my go to damage ability to the point where I was known for spamming it constantly against players.

I'm not a big fan of the Destro staff because the only reason you want to use it is for Crushing Shock. Impulse is garbage. Elemental Drain is only useful on PvE bosses and Wall of Elements is....lol.

I'd much rather they made the Crystal Blast Morph of Crystal Fragments spammable for people who want something. Make it instant cast and reduce its damage by 20% and cost by 20%. You'd lose the 20% proc bonus but it would do comparable damage to crushing shock and open up other options for a Sorc without providing a DPS boost.

@Ezareth (or anyone else using melee weapons for that matter)

That would be awesome, and would effectively be +1 skill slot because I would no longer need to slot Crushing Shock.

I could possibly live without destro if we got the ult gain buff from *any* offensive ability, not just light/heavy attacks. Maybe it's all in my head, but I feel like giving up 1k DPS (in PvP) light attack weaving, concussion procs, and all that delicious ult gain is insane.

Obviously my feelings are wrong because otherwise apparently sane sorcs are sporting melee weapons and doing just fine. WHY am I wrong though? How do you deal with such low ult gain? Nobody worth a damn is going to stand there and let you detonation curse entropy fury frag them. Without sustained dps how do you keep them out of your face? How do you put them on the back foot long enough to set up said burst? What is it about this playstyle that I can't wrap my head around? I've never actually tried it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm doing fantastic with my destro but I'm honestly curious how good "melee" sorcs are doing it, and why do they feel that it is viable if not better than destro?

I've only done the dual wield build once in PvP and once in PvE. I'm not a big fan...the damage is nice but the loss of weaving ends up being an overall loss of DPS for anything but overload. As far as how you generate ultimate it isn't all that bad as I utilize block and roll dodges appropriately so I usually don't need to keep my ult gain rolling, it is the same thing I do to generate ultimate while I'm in overload mode.

Additionally to a player who is in your face you can animation cancel mages wrath with light attacks. It's not a ton of DPS like you'd see a stamina user get but its still damage and keeps ult rolling.

Destruent · December 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I just don't understand why everyone strictly not want to use weapon abilities...if no one needs/wants to use them, why do we have them? btw you could also use trapping webs from the undaunted skilline an specc for magic dmg in your CP-tree...
I mean...there are bigger problems ingame than sorc-DPS-rotation O_o

Yeah, Trapping Webs is awesome, that's why NBs use it instead of Surprise Attack (or whatever it's called)....

NOT!

Get real, if Trapping Webs is our best option, our options suck. We need a decent instant damage spell that doesn't cost 3000 magicka, LOL. Trapping Webs doesn't do that much damage, anyway, barely as much as Crushing Shock.

Crushing-Shock Tooltip: 3x2080-->6240 (Costs: 1674)
Trapping Webs: 7445 (Costs 2177)

hm...costs less magicka than you stated above and does more damage than crushing...it does also snare your enemy and gets boostet by thaumaturge like curs/frags/mines/proxymity detonation...
But you are right...compared to a NB-Funnel-Build every skill is expensive ;-)

PS: I have no Costreduction on my gear...both Tooltips with DW, so Crushing does even less damage ingame bc you have to use destro

jakeedmundson · December 2015

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Well seeing how this thread is still alive you really want a spammable long range attack use wrecking blow. Hits 20 meters away less than 1 second cast time and deals 10K damage even after mitigation.

Problem solved.

Xeven · December 2015

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

pronkg · December 2015

I want a ferrari

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

Hmm yea buff up the other classes before sorcs and NBs get nerfed yea be the only classes that haven't gotten nerfed. Yes to buffs and yes to nerfs.

Xeven · December 2015

Because Ferraris and video game abilities are equivalent.

jakeedmundson · December 2015

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

..... i'm honestly confused at how you feel stam Dks are just as competitive as any sorc.....

I play them both... my sorc outperforms my dk on every level. (PS. my dk is my main... i've played tons of hours on him before i even made the sorc)

WillhelmBlack · December 2015

Shock destro heavy attack, crushing shock, impulse, tangling webs. Take your pick.

Xeven · December 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

Hmm yea buff up the other classes before sorcs and NBs get nerfed yea be the only classes that haven't gotten nerfed. Yes to buffs and yes to nerfs.

Lol at no nerfs. Weve had our fair share, and nobody said we should never be nerfed. It's just irrelevant to the discussion.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Shock destro heavy attack, crushing shock, impulse, tangling webs. Take your pick.

crushing shock is the exact ability I mentioned, webs can't really compete, destro heavy attacks is what you use to weave and impulse is a crappy AoE that can't really compare to steel tornado

Reverb · December 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc.

I want whatever you've been drinking or smoking. I could use a dose of delusion to get through this day.

SolDeLaLunis · December 2015

Destruent wrote: »

I just don't understand why everyone strictly not want to use weapon abilities...if no one needs/wants to use them, why do we have them? btw you could also use trapping webs from the undaunted skilline an specc for magic dmg in your CP-tree...
I mean...there are bigger problems ingame than sorc-DPS-rotation O_o

because only sorcs have the expert mage passive, which requires all sorc skills without any exceptions. force pulse is a destro staff skill thus does not count towards the passive. expert mage increases spell damage, which is very difficult to get compared to its counterpart weapon damage.

Derra · December 2015

Destruent wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I just don't understand why everyone strictly not want to use weapon abilities...if no one needs/wants to use them, why do we have them? btw you could also use trapping webs from the undaunted skilline an specc for magic dmg in your CP-tree...
I mean...there are bigger problems ingame than sorc-DPS-rotation O_o

Yeah, Trapping Webs is awesome, that's why NBs use it instead of Surprise Attack (or whatever it's called)....

NOT!

Get real, if Trapping Webs is our best option, our options suck. We need a decent instant damage spell that doesn't cost 3000 magicka, LOL. Trapping Webs doesn't do that much damage, anyway, barely as much as Crushing Shock.

Crushing-Shock Tooltip: 3x2080-->6240 (Costs: 1674)
Trapping Webs: 7445 (Costs 2177)

hm...costs less magicka than you stated above and does more damage than crushing...it does also snare your enemy and gets boostet by thaumaturge like curs/frags/mines/proxymity detonation...
But you are right...compared to a NB-Funnel-Build every skill is expensive ;-)

PS: I have no Costreduction on my gear...both Tooltips with DW, so Crushing does even less damage ingame bc you have to use destro

The dmg difference is because thaumaturge for some reason gets applied to the tooltip of the ability while elemental expert does not for crushing shock.

Trapping webs does less dmg than crushing shock (which happens to do less dmg than force pulse) when compared with equal spelldmg (and the same amount of points in the according cp tree) while costing 30% more magica per cast.

Edit: Even if you figure in different CP allocations to accomodate for a DW build not utilizing elemental dmg at all a build with staff light attacks will always come out ahead in dps (except for a certain burst combo - but that would require you to land that combo - might pay of against inexperienced players most likely not against good ones).

Destruent · December 2015

SolDeLaLunis wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I just don't understand why everyone strictly not want to use weapon abilities...if no one needs/wants to use them, why do we have them? btw you could also use trapping webs from the undaunted skilline an specc for magic dmg in your CP-tree...
I mean...there are bigger problems ingame than sorc-DPS-rotation O_o

because only sorcs have the expert mage passive, which requires all sorc skills without any exceptions. force pulse is a destro staff skill thus does not count towards the passive. expert mage increases spell damage, which is very difficult to get compared to its counterpart weapon damage.

O_O

thats the silliest argument i've ever heard...only because sorc have passive which increses spelldmg for every slotted sorc-abitlity, it doesn't mean that you should use it with 6 abilities without any downsides. Nightblades have "Pressure Points"...i've never heard someone complaining about not getting the full benefit without a totally useless skillbar...
Comparison to Wepon damage is also useless, bc magicka builds have higher resource pools than stambuilds and also do more dmg in general (pve-wise, don't talk about pvp-burst)...

sry, but i can't understand why the strongest PvE-DPS and PVP-class is asking for buffs...Sorcs are performing rly good in every aspect of the game.

Ezareth · December 2015

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Why is this even being talked about?....1 of the 2 strongest classes in the game does not need MORE tools in their belt.

Can we just drop this post?...

This is irrelevant. If Sorcs are in fact over performing then the under performing classes should be buffed. Stam DKs are just as competitive as any Sorc yet that doesnt mean they shouldn't get a stam whip.

..... i'm honestly confused at how you feel stam Dks are just as competitive as any sorc.....

I play them both... my sorc outperforms my dk on every level. (PS. my dk is my main... i've played tons of hours on him before i even made the sorc)

I have no problem admitting that I am a far better sorc than I am a NB. I also know that I've fought Stam DKs who can fight me to a stalemate regularly and sometimes beat me so I don't agree with your assessment.