Buying Champion Points

BugCollector · November 2015

Hear me out. Even with the catch-up mechanic, in a year or so, new players will NEVER be able to catch up with longtime players. Those new players will get very frustrated and eventually they will give up on the game, because there's no way they'll ever catch-up on Champion Points. Those players should be able to buy CP in the Crown Store for a hefty price and ONLY until they've reached the cap.
Is there really another solution?

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

Say "no" to P2W.
Yeah, champion system has its flaws, but selling cp, gear or anything like = spitting on the player's faces. Such things should only belong to short-lived f2p games.
Zos should work on fixing balance issues instead of transforming the game into a wallet competition.
[Edit] Too bad there's no "dislike" button.

Rosveen · November 2015

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

BugCollector · November 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

Why would this sabotage anything? Just tell me how this game would be compelling to new players with the current champion point system?

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

Why would this sabotage anything? Just tell me how this game would be compelling to new players with the current champion point system?

Would the game be compelling for new players if they wont be competitive without paying "hefty sums"?
Speaking of fixing things... Current catch-up system is a decent start, and it could be improved even further. That is.

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

+1

vyrusb23 · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

Hear me out. Even with the catch-up mechanic, in a year or so, new players will NEVER be able to catch up with longtime players. Those new players will get very frustrated and eventually they will give up on the game, because there's no way they'll ever catch-up on Champion Points. Those players should be able to buy CP in the Crown Store for a hefty price and ONLY until they've reached the cap.
Is there really another solution?

Why not just have an option to pay to create an already max VR level and max CP point character? That way you'll never have to do anything. You'll literally never have to gain XP or CP. It'll just start out maxed. Then, you can turn the game off and go play WoW.

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

vyrusb23 wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

Hear me out. Even with the catch-up mechanic, in a year or so, new players will NEVER be able to catch up with longtime players. Those new players will get very frustrated and eventually they will give up on the game, because there's no way they'll ever catch-up on Champion Points. Those players should be able to buy CP in the Crown Store for a hefty price and ONLY until they've reached the cap.
Is there really another solution?

Why not just have an option to pay to create an already max VR level and max CP point character? That way you'll never have to do anything. You'll literally never have to gain XP or CP. It'll just start out maxed. Then, you can turn the game off and go play WoW.

You forgot about all achievements and emperor status :P

vyrusb23 · November 2015

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

Hear me out. Even with the catch-up mechanic, in a year or so, new players will NEVER be able to catch up with longtime players. Those new players will get very frustrated and eventually they will give up on the game, because there's no way they'll ever catch-up on Champion Points. Those players should be able to buy CP in the Crown Store for a hefty price and ONLY until they've reached the cap.
Is there really another solution?

Why not just have an option to pay to create an already max VR level and max CP point character? That way you'll never have to do anything. You'll literally never have to gain XP or CP. It'll just start out maxed. Then, you can turn the game off and go play WoW.

You forgot about all achievements and emperor status :P

Oh no! I didn't forget them! That is a different item you can purchase! So, first you purchase your VR maxed and CP maxed character. THEN you pay MORE money to get all of the achievments and emperor status! Brilliant move ZoS! Brilliant move!

kongkim · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

Why would this sabotage anything? Just tell me how this game would be compelling to new players with the current champion point system?

There is a lot of content new people like to try... Not all care for 500 CP.

TheShadowScout · November 2015

How about no?

The catchup mechanics are good enough. Sure, many won't ever really catch up... but you'll get close enough if they spend the effort. And with the caps in place, catching up to that is actually possible in time. Especially when some of the ones at the cap will start playing less since it doesn't gain them that much anymore...

How would having to pay loads of money to catch up be better then not catching up to people who just spent -more- time? It would only vex people with teasing them with what they could have if they paid more then they can afford...

Not to mention, it would vex even more people to see such blatant "pay to win" come to ESO.

Not to mention that letting people buy advancement cuts down on things they can do in the game, which adds to the boredom chance.

All together, bad idea.

mtwiggz · November 2015

WTB CP, pst.

Cogo · November 2015

No.

Paulington · November 2015

Let's do some maths shall we?

Let's say someone started the game the day the cap came in (30/10/2015), Person A. Let's say Person B had 501 CP on that same day and they have equal XP rates (they only use their enlightenment each day), up until the current date (29/11/2015).

Person A used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 131 CP.
Person B used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 519 CP.

Let's extend this out to the hypothetical Thieves' Guild release. I pick February 19th.

Person A used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 289 CP.
Person B used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 564 CP.

Person A has gone from 0% of Person B's CP to 51% of Person B's CP. That's quite a catch up! As successive DLC cycles continue then this gap will get smaller. Remember also that through all this time Person B has not gotten any stronger due to the CP cap whereas Person A is now significantly stronger.

As time goes on the first ~500 CP will be ridiculously easy to get. The catch-up mechanic is not designed to make everyone cap out at the end of the season, it's designed to keep "casual" players within arms reach of "hardcore" players and stop them running away with thousands of CP.

Could it be improved? Sure, everything can, but it is working as evidenced by @ZOS_RichLambert saying on ESO Live that the average CP has gone from ~90 CP to ~160 CP or so if I recall correctly.

tplink3r1 · November 2015

0 Agrees, nice try.

Xendyn · November 2015

I'll let the devs worry about the planning a year from now.
It's their job, not ours.

BugCollector · November 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

That's rude btw. I didn't attack anyone. Just posted my thoughts. You could've said it in a better way you don't agree with me. + I love this game!

BugCollector · November 2015

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

Dominoid · November 2015

As the CP cap gets prohibitively higher, the game will most likely auto give CP to a certain level. This is similar to the coming mechanic of "giving" any account with a VR16 character a mandatory 160CP when veteran ranks are removed.

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

Actually, Paulington did...
And "pay to progress" system will cause 10 times more issues than current cp imbalance. Which is partially solved with catch-up system.

mtwiggz · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

That's rude btw. I didn't attack anyone. Just posted my thoughts. You could've said it in a better way you don't agree with me. + I love this game!

I agree that is a very rude statement. Some people simply do not understand.

From my standpoint I enjoy to be competitive, both in PvP and PvE. Unfortunately in order to do so CP is a must. As someone who works 60-70+ hours a week my play time is lacking. Which is such case my time is far more valuable to me than money. So I would rather spend money to be able to enjoy the time I play, rather than spend the time I play grinding CP.

BugCollector · November 2015

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

Actually, Paulington did...
And "pay to progress" system will cause 10 times more issues than current cp imbalance.

That's not a solution. He just said how the system works.

vyrusb23 · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

There is one crucial detail that you left out. A problem needs to actually -exist- in order for there to be discussion on a solution.

BugCollector · November 2015

vyrusb23 wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

There is one crucial detail that you left out. A problem needs to actually -exist- in order for there to be discussion on a solution.

So you like to bury your head in the sand.

tinythinker · November 2015

I still like the idea of limiting how many champion "stars" can be active at one time. The other perks, like more resources and the stars unlocked for investing in a constellation, could be left alone or the unlocks could be active only when a champion star from that constellation is currently active. You could keep investing in as many stars as you like for more options, and switch which ones are active anytime with no cost. Along with a catch-up mechanic this would allow for customization yet limit the gulf between higher and lower CP characters.

EDIT:

I can't find the link to the player comment where this was suggested (well I could've, but not in the 45 seconds I was willing to invest), and there were multiple variations suggested. So I will just toss this out "from me":

- Congrats, you've reached level 50 and can now earn points (at an accelerated rate) in the Champion System. You can invest in as many stars as you wish have up to (6? 8? 10? let's just call the starting number X) stars active at any any one time. You can change active stars at any time for no cost, but to reset the Champion Points invested in your constellations there is a 3000 gold fee per reset. Boons from perk stars unlocked by investing in a constellation need not be "selected" and only deactivate if you reallocate Champion Points to another constellation.

- Congrats, you've reached 300 stars in The Mage (The Warrior, The Thief) and unlocked an achievement for this in your achievements menu. You can now activate an additional star from the constellations controlled by the Mage (The Warrior, The Thief).

- Congrats, you've reached 600 stars in The Mage (The Warrior, The Thief) and unlocked an achievement for this in your achievements menu. You can now activate an additional star from the constellations controlled by the Mage (The Warrior, The Thief).

- Congrats, you've reached 1200 stars in The Mage (The Warrior, The Thief) and unlocked an achievement for this in your achievements menu. You can now activate an additional star from the constellations controlled by the Mage (The Warrior, The Thief).

So, you still get the boons from perk stars and the increased stats as you get more CP, you have more options to customize your character as you get more CP, and at big milestones you get an extra active star. The progression is still there. The ubiquitous OP-ness in all things once you can put 50-80 points in everything? Not so much.

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

mtwiggz wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Why are you actively trying to sabotage this game?

That's rude btw. I didn't attack anyone. Just posted my thoughts. You could've said it in a better way you don't agree with me. + I love this game!

I agree that is a very rude statement. Some people simply do not understand.

From my standpoint I enjoy to be competitive, both in PvP and PvE. Unfortunately in order to do so CP is a must. As someone who works 60-70+ hours a week my play time is lacking. Which is such case my time is far more valuable to me than money. So I would rather spend money to be able to enjoy the time I play, rather than spend the time I play grinding CP.

You're not the only one who has a full-time job.
And what do you expect if you get these cp? Being competitive in PvP requires skill, not only cp. If you wont practice, you will still be wrecked by good PvPers. Same goes for PvE content. You absolutely dont need 500 cp to be a good player. One of people I play with only has 300+ and yet sometimes we 2-3 manning vet pledges (often without a tank and/or healer, for example, 2 days ago we 2-manned vDarkshade until the netch as 2 dds, and then invited a guildie who wanted to farm a helmet, and finished the dungeon with 3 of us).
But if you're a bad player with 100 cps, you wont be any good with 500, sorry.
P.s. Also you dont have to grind cp actually. I never grinded cp, but I did a lot of dsa runs in early 1.6 and leveled a couple of alts.

BugCollector · November 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

I still like the idea of limiting how many champion "stars" can be active at one time. The other perks, like more resources and the stars unlocked for investing in a constellation, could be left alone or the unlocks could be active only when a champion star from that constellation is currently active. You could keep investing in as many stars as you like for more options, and switch which ones are active anytime with no cost. Along with a catch-up mechanic this would allow for customization yet limit the gulf between higher and lower CP characters.

I like this idea. Thanks for being contructive instead of tearing down this thread.

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

All I see in the comments is how many people don't agree with me, but no one's posting their solution to this obvious problem.

Actually, Paulington did...
And "pay to progress" system will cause 10 times more issues than current cp imbalance.

That's not a solution. He just said how the system works.

Catch-up system is a solution.
Ofc, it can be improved even further, but lazy "solutions" like selling boosts in cash shop will kill the game. It killed many games that had good potential.

BabeestorGor · November 2015

No thanks
Given that after 4 months of playing my highest level character is only 19th level it'll be a long time before I catch up
Still I don't want such a blatent PTW mechanic introduced
CP aren't really a problem as far as questing to level 50 goes. If you've got a lot of CP it'll be ridiculously easy to do it but players have the option not to use their CP.
Dungeons/trials have levels of difficulty to choose from. Maybe in time they will add an elite level for people with oodles of CP.
Its only PvP they are really a problem for. Its been suggested before but maybe CP and non-CP campaigns are the way to go.

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

Speaking of p2w and why its so toxic.
A key point of any game is that all players have equal opportunities, regardless of their salary, race or gender. For example, chess. Even if you're rich and your opponent earns 10 times less money, it doesnt mean that you should start with queens instead of pawns. And if you say "woah, I dont have much time to play so I want to buy 10 queens to compensate it", you will look... Not very smart, so to speak.
Being able to pay for advantages is not fair for those who cannot invest that much money in the game, and will likely repel those who could do this but would prefer a game that doesnt cost an arm and a leg.

zornyan · November 2015

Paulington wrote: »

Let's do some maths shall we?

Let's say someone started the game the day the cap came in (30/10/2015), Person A. Let's say Person B had 501 CP on that same day and they have equal XP rates (they only use their enlightenment each day), up until the current date (29/11/2015).

Person A used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 131 CP.
Person B used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 519 CP.

Let's extend this out to the hypothetical Thieves' Guild release. I pick February 19th.

Person A used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 289 CP.
Person B used 400,000 XP of enlightenment per day and now has 564 CP.

Person A has gone from 0% of Person B's CP to 51% of Person B's CP. That's quite a catch up! As successive DLC cycles continue then this gap will get smaller. Remember also that through all this time Person B has not gotten any stronger due to the CP cap whereas Person A is now significantly stronger.

As time goes on the first ~500 CP will be ridiculously easy to get. The catch-up mechanic is not designed to make everyone cap out at the end of the season, it's designed to keep "casual" players within arms reach of "hardcore" players and stop them running away with thousands of CP.

Could it be improved? Sure, everything can, but it is working as evidenced by @ZOS_RichLambert saying on ESO Live that the average CP has gone from ~90 CP to ~160 CP or so if I recall correctly.

This

At orsinium release I had 130 cp

In one and a half weeks I went up to 270, pretty good mechanic imo, not to mention when the cap gets raised if you have 0 cp you'll gain even faster, it'll be like 2 weeks from 0 to 300

Taemethius · November 2015

Ps4, im over 250cp and I still average 5cp a day with pots. On a solid day over 10cp.

New players could catch up easy with xp pots or scrolls. Not to mention eso plus and rings of mara. That is a 70% boost