Diversified armor sets

Dubhliam · September 2015

With the recent announcement that ZOS is working on removing Veteran Ranks, most of these ideas here become outdated.
You can see my suggestion on the removal of VRs HERE

Hi!
I've been playing ESO since it came out and I absolutely loved how this was the first MMO i played that had a lot of options in regard of character building. Just like an Elder Scroll game should have.
Want to be a stamina sorcerer tank? Go ahead! Want to heal with your nightblade? Be my guest!
I have been playing a magicka dragonknight tank and loved it.

But recent changes are following an established "meta" and there are not that many options when it comes to newly added gear. Heavy armor is reserved for stamina users and if someone (like me) was to tank and use magicka he would have no other choice but to use a crafted set that focuses on magicka.
Not a lot of options to choose from.

I've been thinking about possible solutions and as much as I would like the new dropped sets to have random 2nd, 3rd and 4th bonuses, people that actually play according to the current meta would dislike grinding for a RNG set.

So I came up with a few ideas:
10th trait that customizes bonuses

The next trait(10th) should enable crafters to change the 2nd, 3rd and 4th bonus as they see fit.

F.E.: the new trait should look something like this:
Enhanced - increase the effectiveness of set bonuses by X% (X = 1 or 2 IMO)
Also, when chosen as a trait in the Creation window, pressing Y would enable the changing of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th bonuses.

Of course, changing all bonuses to attack damage would be no fun, so the changes itself should be restricted to similar bonuses.
F.E.:
-magicka regeneration can be replaced with health or stamina regeneration
-maximum health can be replaced with max magicka or stamina
-spell damage can be replaced with weapon power or healing taken
-spell critical can be replaced with weapon critical
-physical resistance can be replaced with spell resistance
etc. (you get the idea)

I think such an option would not impact end game as much as it would give players diversity in choosing which sets to play with their preferred playstyle.

If multiple versions of a set imposes a problem, I suggest one of these options to be implemented to counter the chaos:
-make such a customized set bound on craft
-make it that each piece of the set gives partial effect (1/5 of current value), so if one would have two pieces of the same set equipped, both would give a partial bonus regardless if it is not the same 2nd bonus.

Researchable sets

Make a new crafting station where people can research a number of already existing heavy/medium/light sets.
Only "Bound on Equip" items should be researchable, to prevent certain sets from being craftable, also to prevent people from reselling their already used (Bound) sets.
Also, the sets should only be craftable in their original version (heavy, medium, light).
A few things to note on this idea:

- there are sets that would not be able to get full bonuses as they rely on jewlery to complete (the bonuses always scale to the lowest level item of the set) - there are some very popular sets that have spell damage or weapon damage as the first bonus which would be abused and should be considered as non-researchable. - crafted sets are slightly better from non-crafted in terms of armor, add the fact that you can now add any trait to old sets, some forgotten sets might get some newly founded glory in the OP department. All in all, implementing this idea would require some real thought and calculations.

Upgradeable item levels

Make a special crafting station where all items can be upgraded by recrafting them with materials of the target level.
Each level upgrade is paired with a quality improvement, and instead of regular tempers, it should also consume new tempers and possibly cap the success% below 100%.
So it would not be possible to level upgrade a Legendary item.

People can still farm sets, they need more top-grade materials and new tempers from the DLC zones, ZOS profits, everybody wins.

Note that for the last two options, drop lists should have to be modified in such a way to prevent grinders from accumulating sets easily.
My suggestion would be to lower the drop rates of item sets from world areas, but increase the drop rate from world and dungeon bosses. Also, make it so that chests give set items (including Dolmen chests).

Bfish22090 · September 2015

That doesn't make sense because things like twice born star would be abused

Dubhliam · September 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

That doesn't make sense because things like twice born star would be abused

Please clarify.
If you mean that the 5th bonus would be better, think again.
Ask yourself: does the 5th bonus of the Twice Born Star get better with item level? No, it does not.
If you mean that a Twice Born Star set with three max magicka/stamina bonuses would be OP and could be abused, well I can't help you. Every build benefits from at least two of the default bonuses from the Twice Born Star set. Is it really that OP to have all 3 bonuses benefit you?

bertenburnyb16_ESO · September 2015

if they just made every set available end lvl there would be alot more options, but no every VR raise, all sets become obsolete except newly added end lvl drops and crafted sets, ridiculous imo

hrothbern · September 2015

Dubhliam wrote: »

But recent changes are following an established "meta" and there are not that many options when it comes to newly added gear. Heavy armor is reserved for stamina users and if someone (like me) was to tank and use magicka he would have no other choice but to use a crafted set that focuses on magicka.
Not a lot of options to choose from.

Yeah, as you say: options for build diversity are lessened with the recent new sets ! Whereby remarked that as long as the player base has not more than 1800 CP, the CP system of March helps substantially diversifying builds.

But to your point. If you want to tank with a Magicka build the "black rose" set gives you two times a Stamina stat, and for a Mag build Health or Magicka would be of greater value. So this set pushes tanks to Stamina builds. (Food and tri-stat armor enchants give you already a 15k+ Stamina pool without boni on Stamina)

Enabling crafting to convert item set bonusses is a grand idea... whereby many ways are possible to implement that

and making crafting more important is I think great for this game.

Dubhliam · September 2015

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

if they just made every set available end lvl there would be alot more options, but no every VR raise, all sets become obsolete except newly added end lvl drops and crafted sets, ridiculous imo

I agree.
There are many different set for anyone to choose from.
BUT!
They only come in a certain level spectrums.
So sad to see some great sets go to waste.

Dubhliam · September 2015

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

if they just made every set available end lvl there would be alot more options, but no every VR raise, all sets become obsolete except newly added end lvl drops and crafted sets, ridiculous imo

Come to think of it, it gave me an idea (I have a lot of those apparently).

Why not implement an "upgrading" mechanic?
Give crafters the option to level up any Bind on Equip gear with spending the amount(and type) of materials proportional to the level that the gear is upgraded to + a new material only obtainable from the new content.
Once a piece is bound, it can no longer be upgraded.

Dubhliam · October 2015

Added two more ideas, comment which one you like best.
Or hate most...

Dubhliam · October 2015

All this server downtime made me waste my time on silly Photoshop.
For all you people that see a wall of text and don't bother reading:

It's getting late, but the first idea will also get a pic to match.

TheShadowScout · October 2015

Dubhliam wrote: »

10th trait that customizes bonuses

That one I think may be too problematic, since it means sets can get "customized" and thus have to be saves as customized set of stats instead of simply referring to a canned preset set adjusted by level... would mean much more data transfer time per character, meaning much more lag... that's not a good thing in any case, and thus not really worth the effect in my opinion.
Besides, I never liked it when people are allowed to simply cherry-pick their preferred boni in any case.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Researchable sets

Now here is something... I always wanted to be able to craft all the dropped sets in whatever style my crafters learned, and the research idea is a mechanic I like, would take a lot of time getting some sets together (some pieces seem curiously hard to find, for example, I have yet to find any sollerets for my heavy armor sets V6-V10...), but that is not neccessarily a bad thing... and it would be neat to have more reason to open treasure chests, for hunting down these green lower level armor pieces for research. And of course, it would add some more life to the trade system if crafters were busy assemling their research armor...

Another possibility more in line with our current crafting would be tweaking the crafting stations... right now, every pre-coldharbour crafted set has three stations to its name, one for each alliance. Which I find wasteful, thanks to cadwells our crafters can visit all regions anyhow... so why not do away with the triplicate stations, and refit two each to sets usually only dropped?
This might mean they could keep one station in each region to the current set, and retool the other two to different sets... possibly distributed per style? I would love to see, say, the Red Mountain and Dreugh King Slayer added to Stonefalls, or the Magica Furnace and Nightshade to Deshaan, Necropotence and Viper to Shadowfen, Dragonguard and Fjords to Eastmarch, Nikulas and Kynes Flight to the Rift...
...or the Warlock and Storm Knight to Glenumbra, Sun's Vestment and Brute to Stormhaven, Construct and Necromancer to Rivenspire, Ice Furnace and Adroitness to Alik'r, Rage and Elegance to Bangkorai...
...or Syrabane and Lords Mail to Auridion, Darkstride and Knightmare to Grahtwood, Stendarr and Unassailable to Greenshade, Salvation and Healer to Malabel Tor, Soulshine and Shadows Embrace to Reapers March...
...that sort of thing...

Dubhliam wrote: »

Upgradeable item levels

That is another idea I really like, and have mentioned countless times before in other threads. Having a spacial upgrade station for it is a new addition to the notion, and one I am not so sure about, but raising some items level just like temper improvements, requiring some materials and having a destruction chance that can be minimized by using more materials... that is something which would be a good idea IMO, allowing people to make a choice between hunting down a new set for their level, or upgrading the old one...
Of course, upgrading an armor set sould not be easy, in fact, it should require enough resources to make it less of a hassle to just find a new set. Possibly some special resources too, stuff that might be as "easy" to find as nirncrux, or perfect roe... (or for those lacking patience, available to buy in the crown store) But however it were done, the option would be neat to have!

One more possibility to mention when talking armor sets is the possibility of recrafting some to different styles. Which would also be a good thing to have, though it certainly should again take quite a bit of resources and maxed crafting skill to reforge/resew/recarve something from one style to a different one. With the usual destruction chance like temper improvements, migrated by using more resources. Possibly again requiring some special resources too.

Dubhliam · October 2015

@TheShadowScout
Wow.
Thanks for the in depth reply. I strongly agree with everything you have said, and it almost coincides with my opinion.

My favorites are the more simple ones, and "upgrading" takes that medal. Researching being second best.
The only downside to upgrading as opposed to researching is not being able to change traits and style. Although, I think researched sets should only be craftable in their original "weight". But maybe that is for the better, because we don't want to mettle with the balance in this game.
I just want for us to be able to use already existing sets at any level.

willymchilybily · October 2015

@shadowscout

surely your idea of changing duplicate sets in different faction zones means some sets would not be available until you are high VR level.

eg. if you changed a starting set from my zone say seducer or something to syrabane etc then i cant get seducer until i've done cadwells silver. where as another faction could

also any set you replace would have to be of equal traits. (eg if all starting area sets in my area were 8 trait sets that were normally drops it would be very unfair that i cant make any sets for a long long time if I'm just starting out.)

@Dubhliam allowing changes to set bonuses could make it possible to build OP sets even when restricting options. it also makes grinding the new sets unnecessary, i dont see it being possible to impliment without damaging progression. unless there was some kind of RNG or Grind and it should not be easy to do. (at willl on a crafting table)

if you were desperate for such a system id say it would be better to introduce a new mechanic.

off the top of my head: Grinding for resource X/Y/Z which then allows you to select one of the 2,3,4 slot bonuses on a piece of unbound armor to re-roll. I'd suggest it as part of some DLC that either brings back or uses a concept similar to the atronarch forge from skyrim.

adding the armor + correct items would change the set bonus. but there should be some RNG involved. eg. add armor + resource X/Y/Z to change the 2/ 3/4 set bonus+ item to change bonus. but the bonus its changed to is not set in stone

I would suggest trait gems as you build up such a collection of these but you have no real use for them

eg.
turquise/sardonyx = + spell resistance / +physical resistance / + armor
jade/Blood stone = + magicka / +stamina / +health
ruby/diamond = + % spell crit / +% weapon crit / + % crit damage

you get the idea

trait gem and resource X/Y/Z are consumed on roll. And finally i would suggest that you can only change 1 of the set bonuses on a piece of armor. You can re roll it as often as you like, but once you change say the (2) piece set bonus that is the only bonus you can change (on that piece of armor) in the future (should also be indicated maybe different color on tool tip)

finally, a consideration: what happens if i have say a hundings rage set i have re-rolled one piece to give the 2 piece set bonus say stamina. but then i equip it and i also equip another piece of hundings rage unmodified that grants critical? i have completed the 2 piece set but which bonus do i get the original, the new, neither? making sure the set bonuses needed to match to work is the logical option

Mettaricana · October 2015

Dubhliam wrote: »

Hi!
I've been playing ESO since it came out and I absolutely loved how this was the first MMO i played that had a lot of options in regard of character building. Just like an Elder Scroll game should have.
Want to be a stamina sorcerer tank? Go ahead! Want to heal with your nightblade? Be my guest!
I have been playing a magicka dragonknight tank and loved it.

But recent changes are following an established "meta" and there are not that many options when it comes to newly added gear. Heavy armor is reserved for stamina users and if someone (like me) was to tank and use magicka he would have no other choice but to use a crafted set that focuses on magicka.
Not a lot of options to choose from.

I've been thinking about possible solutions and as much as I would like the new dropped sets to have random 2nd, 3rd and 4th bonuses, people that actually play according to the current meta would dislike grinding for a RNG set.

So I came up with a few ideas:
10th trait that customizes bonuses
The next trait(10th) should enable crafters to change the 2nd, 3rd and 4th bonus as they see fit.

F.E.: the new trait should look something like this:
Enhanced - increase the effectiveness of set bonuses by X% (X = 1 or 2 IMO)
Also, when chosen as a trait in the Creation window, pressing Y would enable the changing of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th bonuses.

Of course, changing all bonuses to attack damage would be no fun, so the changes itself should be restricted to similar bonuses.
F.E.:
-magicka regeneration can be replaced with health or stamina regeneration
-maximum health can be replaced with max magicka or stamina
-spell damage can be replaced with weapon power or healing taken
-spell critical can be replaced with weapon critical
-physical resistance can be replaced with spell resistance
etc. (you get the idea)

I think such an option would not impact end game as much as it would give players diversity in choosing which sets to play with their preferred playstyle.

If multiple versions of a set imposes a problem, I suggest one of these options to be implemented to counter the chaos:
-make such a customized set bound on craft
-make it that each piece of the set gives partial effect (1/5 of current value), so if one would have two pieces of the same set equipped, both would give a partial bonus regardless if it is not the same 2nd bonus.
Researchable sets
Make a new crafting station where people can research a number of already existing heavy/medium/light sets.
Only "Bound on Equip" items should be researchable, to prevent certain sets from being craftable, also to prevent people from reselling their already used (Bound) sets.
Also, the sets should only be craftable in their original version (heavy, medium, light).
A few things to note on this idea:
- there are sets that would not be able to get full bonuses as they rely on jewlery to complete (the bonuses always scale to the lowest level item of the set) - there are some very popular sets that have spell damage or weapon damage as the first bonus which would be abused and should be considered as non-researchable. - crafted sets are slightly better from non-crafted in terms of armor, add the fact that you can now add any trait to old sets, some forgotten sets might get some newly founded glory in the OP department.
All in all, implementing this idea would require some real thought and calculations.
Upgradeable item levels
Make a special crafting station where all items can be upgraded by recrafting them with materials of the target level.
Each level upgrade is paired with a quality improvement, and instead of regular tempers, it should also consume new tempers and possibly cap the success% below 100%.
So it would not be possible to level upgrade a Legendary item.

People can still farm sets, they need more top-grade materials and new tempers from the DLC zones, ZOS profits, everybody wins.
Note that for the last two options, drop lists should have to be modified in such a way to prevent grinders from accumulating sets easily.
My suggestion would be to lower the drop rates of item sets from world areas, but increase the drop rate from world and dungeon bosses. Also, make it so that chests give set items (including Dolmen chests).

Oh hell no I'm not researching another trait for 54 days. Just hit 8-9 in everything I'd rhey wann amke game better leqrn to choose gear that fits your play style I run a heavy armored kagrenacs hope spell caster she hits like a truck do t use stam to do anything ut break out and dodge. If zos wanted change some useless game mechanics like sturdy well fitted and exploration into a usedil trait and remove the drop chance of those traits past 50in lvl.

Dubhliam · October 2015

@willymchilybily
Love the idea to make old trait gems usable.
And, yes, I do realize that the custom bonuses is a hell to implement, but it was my original idea for this post until @bertenburnyb16_ESO pointed out it would be better to just reuse old sets, so I left that option instead of just erasing it altogether.

@Mettaricana
I do realize that yet more researching would be tedious BUT! The researching mechanic is superior to the upgrading in terms of trait and style customization. Therefore making some sets potentially better than some current top tier sets.
There has to be some kind of a restriction.

I have yet to hear a negative comment on the "Upgrading mechanic".
Does anyone have an idea why this mechanic should NOT be implemented?

PBpsy · October 2015

The easiest way to balance an action rpg is to mostly force and support a set of well defined builds then tweak them. It has been done in many games. . In the beginning they wanted to milk the "Play as you derp" theme but they changed their mind almost a year ago. I remember quite clearly when a certain dev stealthily admitted that they have abandoned that idea.
Things that have been done since to limit diversity.
-Buff system
-Chump System.It is so limited and linear it is not even funny.
-Removal of Caps. Nothing damages build diversity more than lack of caps.
-The weapon damage /Spell damage /Spell crit/Weapon crit skill scaling.They were probably not obvious to many but the initial scheme was actually great.
-removal of dynamic Ulti
-Addition of IC gear ....

In conclusion.... ZOS gave the population what they screamed for.... The population immediately left because they have accomplished their goal.

Dubhliam · November 2015

With the recent announcement that ZOS is working on removing Veteran Ranks, most of these ideas here become outdated.
You can see my suggestion on the removal of VRs HERE