Veteran Rank Name change

maxlax28b14_ESO · November 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…
We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)

The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.

When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.

To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:
We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)

When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.

We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Okay, so basically what is being said here is "vet ranks" will be removed and replaced with "cp ranks". This does NOT touch on the issue of experience to get up to "max level" and the grind it takes to get there.

@zos What I'm trying to say is thanks for trying, but is there a way you can maybe discuss the real issue of the gameplay of leveling and lack of materials besides repeating silver, gold, and craglorn for many players probably the third or fourth time. for example dungeons give pathetic experience, and it's seriously just not fun.

I'm just trying to show the flaw in this proposed change in the new "levels" and how it really isn't changing anything, just a name. So please don't take this as a cry for nerf post.

Xendyn · November 2015

Ummm

Since CP is account shared as soon as your alts hit 50 they are as high as your CP pool.Leveling done except for getting more CP.

Iluvrien · November 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Ummm

Since CP is account shared as soon as your alts hit 50 they are as high as your CP pool.Leveling done except for getting more CP.

What the OP seems to be getting at is how it is difficult to grind a system that was never designed with grinding in mind.

Or perhaps it is purely about CP counts being used as extra levels. It could be either. Or both.

Xendyn · November 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Ummm

Since CP is account shared as soon as your alts hit 50 they are as high as your CP pool.Leveling done except for getting more CP.

What the OP seems to be getting at is how it is difficult to grind a system that was never designed with grinding in mind.

Or perhaps it is purely about CP counts being used as extra levels. It could be either. Or both.

Not sure. Either way anything you do contributes to all as soon as they are 50.

maxlax28b14_ESO · November 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Ummm

Since CP is account shared as soon as your alts hit 50 they are as high as your CP pool.Leveling done except for getting more CP.

I see what you're saying.
But
1. That isn't the topic of the post

2. And more importantly Zenimax has not released how this system will be specifically working, cp might not be shared, will there be a total rework? Who knows, but eh that's the least of our worries, it should be how we get there.

Xendyn · November 2015

I guess I don't see what you're getting at then.

I see it as this should open up the zones so you no longer have to do them in any order and can skip what you don't like (Shadowfen for me). There will no longer be a need for the tacked-on Silver and Gold stuff.

I'm content with that for now.

BabeestorGor · November 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

I guess I don't see what you're getting at then.

I see it as this should open up the zones so you no longer have to do them in any order and can skip what you don't like (Shadowfen for me). There will no longer be a need for the tacked-on Silver and Gold stuff.

I'm content with that for now.

Assuming dlc come out at a decent rate as they seem to be now I agree. Cadwell's won't be needed.
My main worry is the power gap between players reaching 50th level for the 1st time and those with maxed out champion points and how the new content can be challanging and doable for those with 0 cp and those with 500 cp (or more as the cap is raised) at the same time.

Shardaxx · November 2015

So are we going to lose the attribute points assigned during vet leveling?

Valrien · November 2015

Shardaxx wrote: »

So are we going to lose the attribute points assigned during vet leveling?

No, they're working on a system to let us keep our skill and attribute points.

Volkodav · November 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

I guess I don't see what you're getting at then.

I see it as this should open up the zones so you no longer have to do them in any order and can skip what you don't like (Shadowfen for me). There will no longer be a need for the tacked-on Silver and Gold stuff.

I'm content with that for now.

I agree with you.I dont like not being able to get to any of the areas I want to.And,I dont like being forced to do areas I dont like.(DC for me.)

Jailbirdy · November 2015

So a new guy level 10 goes into Cyrodil, tries PVP and everyone else has 300-500 CP.

How do you battle level that?

Volkodav · November 2015

Jailbirdy wrote: »

So a new guy level 10 goes into Cyrodil, tries PVP and everyone else has 300-500 CP.

How do you battle level that?

Well,Orsinium is leveled like that.I went there yesterday at level 4,was battle leveled to V15,and got several quests done before I had to leave.

RinOkumara · November 2015

So basically, Zeni is not planning long term for their game. Like most MMO's the level cap increases every so often, but if this system goes through, eventually there will be a hard-cap that cannot change(3600). I still do not see the problem with vet ranks and if people think the cp difference is bad now, just wait till your entire game is based on it. I seriously hope they change their minds and either continue with vet ranks or make it 1-66(As of now with vet 16)

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Jailbirdy wrote: »

So a new guy level 10 goes into Cyrodil, tries PVP and everyone else has 300-500 CP.

How do you battle level that?

In the same way they battle-level VR; it'll just be a transfer. Having CP tacked on and not affected by battle-levelling won't be an issue if they replace VR.

Shardaxx · November 2015

I actually hope they cap it low, so that all players reach the cap fairly quickly. Then pvp is an even playing field, as it should be.

Slurg · November 2015

maxlax28b14_ESO wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

Ummm

Since CP is account shared as soon as your alts hit 50 they are as high as your CP pool.Leveling done except for getting more CP.

I see what you're saying.
But
1. That isn't the topic of the post
2. And more importantly Zenimax has not released how this system will be specifically working, cp might not be shared, will there be a total rework? Who knows, but eh that's the least of our worries, it should be how we get there.

So the point is to scare the user base into thinking that CP may no longer be shared across characters? There is absolutely no reason to speculate that is the case with the information we've been given.

Tyr · November 2015

RinOkumara wrote: »

So basically, Zeni is not planning long term for their game. Like most MMO's the level cap increases every so often, but if this system goes through, eventually there will be a hard-cap that cannot change(3600). I still do not see the problem with vet ranks and if people think the cp difference is bad now, just wait till your entire game is based on it. I seriously hope they change their minds and either continue with vet ranks or make it 1-66(As of now with vet 16)

The cap won't be at 3600 for at least 4 years based on what Rich said on the last ESO live. He said they won't be raising the cap by 500 points each time but somewhere around 100-200 points each DLC.

That's 15-30 more quarterly DLC's before the 3600 cap even becomes an issue.

Edit: He actually also said that they won't necessarily be raising the CP cap at every DLC, so even longer than I originally said.

Zhoyzu · November 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

Ummm

Since CP is account shared as soon as your alts hit 50 they are as high as your CP pool.Leveling done except for getting more CP.

looking forward to this.

Tyr · November 2015

BabeestorGor wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

I guess I don't see what you're getting at then.

I see it as this should open up the zones so you no longer have to do them in any order and can skip what you don't like (Shadowfen for me). There will no longer be a need for the tacked-on Silver and Gold stuff.

I'm content with that for now.

Assuming dlc come out at a decent rate as they seem to be now I agree. Cadwell's won't be needed.
My main worry is the power gap between players reaching 50th level for the 1st time and those with maxed out champion points and how the new content can be challanging and doable for those with 0 cp and those with 500 cp (or more as the cap is raised) at the same time.

Well there will always be a gap but by the time the cap is at 2000 it will be 10x easier for a brand new level 50 to get 500CP than it is now. As long as you keep playing at a regular pace, the gap between you and the CP cap will shrink over time.

In fact, Rich Lambert said that the average CP's for players went from ~100 to over 160 since the launch of Orsinium just due to the catch up mechanic.

Uriel_Nocturne · November 2015

I know that Zeni is definitely going to get rid of Vet Ranks and change the name to Champion Ranks (because, let's be honest; nothings really going to change...); but what I'd like to see when they make this name-change is: get rid of Cadwell's and let us explore the other Alliances "at-will".

It's all PvE anyway, so no threat of gank-squads rolling through on a bunch of fresh-meat Alt characters. So why not let us explore it as we please if they're going to go this route with the VR/CP change?

Tyr · November 2015

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I know that Zeni is definitely going to get rid of Vet Ranks and change the name to Champion Ranks (because, let's be honest; nothings really going to change...); but what I'd like to see when they make this name-change is: get rid of Cadwell's and let us explore the other Alliances "at-will".

It's all PvE anyway, so no threat of gank-squads rolling through on a bunch of fresh-meat Alt characters. So why not let us explore it as we please if they're going to go this route with the VR/CP change?

They aren't changing any names, The champion point system already exists. They are just converting all the VET gear to level 50 and giving it Champion Point requirements to use and then compensating people for the lost power of VET ranks with Champion points.

I repeat, there is not going to be any other system other than the Existing champion points after level 50

Edit: Also I have no idea how they would go about removing Cadwell's Silver/Gold since it is tied to progressing the alliance story and a bunch of other zone quests wouldn't make any sense without that quest line and you can't normally(by travelling) even get to certain areas(like all of Alik'r for example) without going through Cadwell's Silver/Gold

I think best case scenario they will make both Cadwell's Silver/Gold Aliance Zones accessible when you defeat Bal in Coldharbour and all the zones/quests will be level 50. They are never going to let you go to the other alliances before finishing the World quest arc for your alliance because it would break all the continuity of the quest dialog for all the zones and would make no sense for you to simultaneously be the protagonist in all three factions.

We already Know that we will have at least 6 new battle leveled zones(Orsinium, Abah's Landing, Gold Coast, Clockwork City, Murkmire, Mephala's Realm) over the next 2 years, so by the time ES) reaches it's 5 year anniversary, the game will be double the size it was at launch and half the zones will be available to all levels.

Uriel_Nocturne · November 2015

Tyr wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I know that Zeni is definitely going to get rid of Vet Ranks and change the name to Champion Ranks (because, let's be honest; nothings really going to change...); but what I'd like to see when they make this name-change is: get rid of Cadwell's and let us explore the other Alliances "at-will".

It's all PvE anyway, so no threat of gank-squads rolling through on a bunch of fresh-meat Alt characters. So why not let us explore it as we please if they're going to go this route with the VR/CP change?

They aren't changing any names, The champion point system already exists. They are just converting all the VET gear to level 50 and giving it Champion Point requirements to use and then compensating people for the lost power of VET ranks with Champion points.

I repeat, there is not going to be any other system other than the Existing champion points after level 50.

Yeah, nothing changes from what it is now.

laksikus · November 2015

so v16 gear will be 160cp gear.
meaning i will have to grind again, as my v16 gear now will be weaker than any gear i will get once they change the system (as i would have roughly about 300cp when it changes).

means i will have to get another 500 silk (probably even more) for each char, new monster helmets and shoulders, not to be talking about any spell power cure set -.-

Slurg · November 2015

laksikus wrote: »

so v16 gear will be 160cp gear.
meaning i will have to grind again, as my v16 gear now will be weaker than any gear i will get once they change the system (as i would have roughly about 300cp when it changes).

means i will have to get another 500 silk (probably even more) for each char, new monster helmets and shoulders, not to be talking about any spell power cure set -.-

Are you saying you would prefer the old system, where you would be grinding every single one of your characters to VR 18 in this update before you can gear them, and then grind each of them to VR 20 in the next update, and to VR 22 the update after that, and so on?

Waffennacht · November 2015

As long as there is experience needed, or a level to be gained people will complain.

They want to be at the same competitively in 2 months as someone whom has played two years.

They will never be happy, no matter the catch up mechanics, no matter the change.

People want things which make me wonder why they are in an mmo.

laksikus · November 2015

Slurg wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

so v16 gear will be 160cp gear.
meaning i will have to grind again, as my v16 gear now will be weaker than any gear i will get once they change the system (as i would have roughly about 300cp when it changes).

means i will have to get another 500 silk (probably even more) for each char, new monster helmets and shoulders, not to be talking about any spell power cure set -.-

Are you saying you would prefer the old system, where you would be grinding every single one of your characters to VR 18 in this update before you can gear them, and then grind each of them to VR 20 in the next update, and to VR 22 the update after that, and so on?

no i would prefer it i my no max level gear now will be max level after the change too.
if they raise cp cap again, then there can be higher gear, but why shouldnt my now max gear not be a 501 egar then?

Slurg · November 2015

laksikus wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

so v16 gear will be 160cp gear.
meaning i will have to grind again, as my v16 gear now will be weaker than any gear i will get once they change the system (as i would have roughly about 300cp when it changes).

means i will have to get another 500 silk (probably even more) for each char, new monster helmets and shoulders, not to be talking about any spell power cure set -.-

Are you saying you would prefer the old system, where you would be grinding every single one of your characters to VR 18 in this update before you can gear them, and then grind each of them to VR 20 in the next update, and to VR 22 the update after that, and so on?

no i would prefer it i my no max level gear now will be max level after the change too.
if they raise cp cap again, then there can be higher gear, but why shouldnt my now max gear not be a 501 egar then?

Did people really believe removal of veteran ranks meant the end, game over, no more advancement?!?

CP system was developed to replace VR, not coexist with it. Of course they're going to tie gear to it!

They have already said if you have a VR 16 at the time of the conversion you will be able to use the max level gear (note: that is the gear you have now. There will not be sudden jumps according to the staff post.)

Expecting it to stay stagnant for the rest of the life of the game is not realistic.

MissBizz · November 2015

laksikus wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

so v16 gear will be 160cp gear.
meaning i will have to grind again, as my v16 gear now will be weaker than any gear i will get once they change the system (as i would have roughly about 300cp when it changes).

means i will have to get another 500 silk (probably even more) for each char, new monster helmets and shoulders, not to be talking about any spell power cure set -.-

Are you saying you would prefer the old system, where you would be grinding every single one of your characters to VR 18 in this update before you can gear them, and then grind each of them to VR 20 in the next update, and to VR 22 the update after that, and so on?

no i would prefer it i my no max level gear now will be max level after the change too.
if they raise cp cap again, then there can be higher gear, but why shouldnt my now max gear not be a 501 egar then?

I also believe Rich stated in ESO live that just because the cap is 500 it doesn't mean there will be gear available that is "500 CP gear". Don't worry, 500 CP gear won't be a thing any time soon.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Slurg wrote: »

So the point is to scare the user base into thinking that CP may no longer be shared across characters? There is absolutely no reason to speculate that is the case with the information we've been given.

True. Sense and logic, but...

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly).

Did he just say they might make huge jumps from 160-390 suddenly though maybe!!?!?

TotterTates · November 2015

What happens to the 15 skill points we gained by reaching v16?

Waffennacht · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

So the point is to scare the user base into thinking that CP may no longer be shared across characters? There is absolutely no reason to speculate that is the case with the information we've been given.

True. Sense and logic, but...

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly).

Did he just say they might make huge jumps from 160-390 suddenly though maybe!!?!?

No. He specifically said it would be a v16 gear would be 160 cp gear. Logically the 300 cp gear would be... quick math guess, 3 dlcs from now at the soonest?

There will always be something new to be earned, not given.