Vet Maelstrom Arena makes me want to give up eso!

temjiu · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah I quit WoW soon after they turned it into a giant mess of catering to Casuals with battle pets and the rest of that garbage. Part of what brought me to ESO was listening to the Devs take a hard stance against that sort of thing.

WoW Was saving instances long before battle pets came out. It was called weekly resets. It really was simply about understanding that the majority of players couldn't spend 8 hours in front of a PC, but most could do an hour or two. so they saved your progress in the instance. Bosses couldn't respawn (some trash would depending on the raid). This was happening as early as Vanilla (definitely in BC).

Now, in relation to the difficulty conversation, I don't think that it makes it more difficult (having no save mechanic) as much as it makes the penalties for failure more severe. It would be like starting a marathon race, then telling everyone in it that if they didn't get in the top 10, they would be thrown in jail. The race is still the same length, it's just the penalty for failing is higher.

I think that's what people refer to when they say, "it doesn't nerf it" because in reality, it doesn't change the difficulty of the fights one bit. the actual "challenge" stays the same. the penalty only lessens a bit. the only real Challenge in that is being able to sit through it until done.

So perhaps the two sides of the argument see difficulty in a different light? Most MMO's have realized that challenge should be in the actual encounters themselves, and not a false sense of difficulty by punishing you more for failing. I'm all for having boss fights that take time to learn the mechanics. I Just don't think that people need to be punished for having to learn the mechanic by having to go through the easy bosses/trash all over again.

To me it just points to Z needing to create more interesting and difficult boss challenges instead of using "start back at zero" as a false sense of difficulty.

Stanko · November 2015

vMA needs a SAVE function. Whether or not you feel that it is a nerf is irrelevant. The SAVE function is needed because a large portion of the ESO population simply can't dedicate the time-block required to make a legitimate attempt at learning the arenas. People simply can't start-over every time that they want to use some of their 500 lives to fight the last boss of the last arena.

The elitists that are actually fighting against a SAVE function need to step-back and look at the big picture. The bills to keep this game going are not paid by the few people capable of completing vMA. The bills are paid by the large number of players who feel that they don't have a fair chance to attempt vMA due to time constraints. If people don't think that they're being treated fairly, they spend their money elsewhere.

Kaliki · November 2015

Vet Mode is making me physically sick.
I can consistently get to the last boss within 2.5 hours now after a couple of runs.

But by the time I'm at the final boss I'm sweating and shivering from the stress, adrenaline and especially the anger and frustration from dying to bugs and RNG.

Also having to focus so much I tend to sit badly so my neck hurts.
So usually I give up quickly at the last boss because I'm exhausted, physically and mentally.

And I'm not even 30 years old...

I will not run it again before progress can be saved.

Phinix1 · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Being able to start playing at any point in the arena (which is what saving does) significantly decreases the difficulty level. Stop trying to make this into something it is not. I have no desire for vMSA to be the core design model of the game or your insinuation for bragging rights. I've long outgrown that desire.

Fair enough.

But I am still waiting for an adequate explanation how being able to save progress on a difficult task makes the task less difficult.

leipatemeibbaa · November 2015

Kaliki wrote: »

Vet Mode is making me physically sick.
I can consistently get to the last boss within 2.5 hours now after a couple of runs.

But by the time I'm at the final boss I'm sweating and shivering from the stress, adrenaline and especially the anger and frustration from dying to bugs and RNG.

Also having to focus so much I tend to sit badly so my neck hurts.
So usually I give up quickly at the last boss because I'm exhausted, physically and mentally.

And I'm not even 30 years old...

I will not run it again before progress can be saved.

I am totally have the same feeling, I can now get to stage 9 within 1 hour and half, but by the time when I get there I felt tired and frustrated. Why the hell ZOS you have to make it 5 rounds of trash before the boss. this is just completely wasting time.

I only have two hours to play every night, and it seems like by the time I get to the final boss I used up all my 2 hours window and I have to go to bed. Jesus I can never finish the *** arena

Spacemonkey · November 2015

So they finally released something hard that is a challenge and takes time to complete.

How many hours did it take you the first time to beat Super Mario??? (As a kid, 10 year old+) I think it took me a few years. We played the game for fun. not to complete it. If id go back to play now though, id beat it in less than an hour. I know the game not as much as most, but enough to get through it stupid fast.

I dont want content that is hard because i need to grind 23893049435 hours. Everything ive heard of maestrom arena so far sounds good. I dont mind butting my head for weeks against it, if in the end I beat it and know what to do to RE-beat it.

Ezareth · November 2015

caperon wrote: »

I really hope alll the l2p crowd has big pockets to support ZOS, because they don't realize that having elite content for the 2% of the player based that gives the best weapons will only make the population go down.

The other problem I see is the way that ZOS focuses dlc to cater to 1 type of player. IC for pvp (in theory), Orsinium for solo... This way they have a minority of players happy with each DLC and a majority unhappy. Each content release should have a bit for everyone so it can appeal a larger player base. If they really want to focus it, it should be cheaper and actually not mandatory. Because lets face it, you needed IC if you wanted materials at a reasonable time/price, you need Orsinium if you want the best weapons, you need new dlc to have the best xp/time ratios other that some overcrowded cave in cyrodiil... You can see the trend here and how can alienate players.

The real test will be the next DLC, don't forget we have been sold 2 content expansions being worked on since the game release or short after (and at least 1 was meant to be free). I bet business was not going good when they advanced orsinium release like 1 or 2 month, and looking the only statistical source we have access (steam numbers, very incomplete but can show general trends), is still not going well. Thats the nature of pve too, it gets old fast once completed.

90-95% of the content in IC and Orsinium was designed for the majority of players. You act like the hard-mode version of a single Osrinium dungeon is the entire DLC! I still haven't even got all the Skyshards or even started the Wrothgar questline yet I still bought the content. There is something for everyone.

idk · November 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

People with a real life cannot play VMA, because RL can interfere anytime.
People can save their game in normal MA, why not in VMA?
What a waste of programming resources.

People with a real life can set aside time to work on this. Part of managing a real life.

Cannot save because this is part of competitive PvE. It's to help ensure no trying to glitch getting on leaderboard.

Oldbushie · November 2015

All they have to do is start counting from when the arena was started... if people go offline for a while between stages then that offline time can count as time needed to complete as well. When people master it and manage to finish it in a two-hour sitting, then they'll be able to get on leaderboards. But don't penalize people who don't give a rat's behind about rankings.

Ezareth · November 2015

Colosso-monstro wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And this is such a joke. I guarantee the majority of players with a V16 character regularly play for 2+ hours at a time already. Trying to scare ZoS into nerfing content for your personal preference is pretty weak.

Saving content progress is not a nerf.

Nerfing content is a nerf.

Put the pitchfork down, brah. It isn't time.

Sure it is. It makes the content significantly easier to complete and makes the final rewards far more common. Imagine how easy any raid content would be if players could save their place in it and just bang their heads against it until they downed it?

And that affects you so much that you don't want others to finish even though they've paid for the game? Jesus, narcissism at a high level. Bet you're a nicw guy...

I think you need to look up the meaning of Narcissism before using it in a sentence.

temjiu wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yeah I quit WoW soon after they turned it into a giant mess of catering to Casuals with battle pets and the rest of that garbage. Part of what brought me to ESO was listening to the Devs take a hard stance against that sort of thing.

WoW Was saving instances long before battle pets came out. It was called weekly resets. It really was simply about understanding that the majority of players couldn't spend 8 hours in front of a PC, but most could do an hour or two. so they saved your progress in the instance. Bosses couldn't respawn (some trash would depending on the raid). This was happening as early as Vanilla (definitely in BC).

Now, in relation to the difficulty conversation, I don't think that it makes it more difficult (having no save mechanic) as much as it makes the penalties for failure more severe. It would be like starting a marathon race, then telling everyone in it that if they didn't get in the top 10, they would be thrown in jail. The race is still the same length, it's just the penalty for failing is higher.

I think that's what people refer to when they say, "it doesn't nerf it" because in reality, it doesn't change the difficulty of the fights one bit. the actual "challenge" stays the same. the penalty only lessens a bit. the only real Challenge in that is being able to sit through it until done.

So perhaps the two sides of the argument see difficulty in a different light? Most MMO's have realized that challenge should be in the actual encounters themselves, and not a false sense of difficulty by punishing you more for failing. I'm all for having boss fights that take time to learn the mechanics. I Just don't think that people need to be punished for having to learn the mechanic by having to go through the easy bosses/trash all over again.

To me it just points to Z needing to create more interesting and difficult boss challenges instead of using "start back at zero" as a false sense of difficulty.

You're right I was remembering when they added the Normal Mode Heroic Mode and 10 man versus 25 man raids. Then they added the tokens to buy the gear etc.

I remember spending hour after hour day after day in raids in WoW. It was fun for awhile but then it just got old. The part that was the least fun was waiting on other people in order to continue progressing and working around everyone else's schedule.

I really don't think the time investment required for vMSA is all that much. The content was designed to be completed in an hour and a half or less...which is the time it takes to watch the shortest movies right now. Entirely reasonable. Even if you only ever have an hour and a half to spend you'll eventually beat and master the content as you'll get better and better on the early waves. I know most "Raid" content operated similarly. You'd spent a couple months of raiding before you downed the final boss unless you were the hardcore elite who would spend every day grinding it out to learn it.

Ezareth · November 2015

Stanko wrote: »

If people don't think that they're being treated fairly, they spend their money elsewhere.

I think you make a fair point. If the 95%+ of Wrothgar that you have access to and complete isn't enough to you then perhaps you should take your own advice.

Resipsa131 · November 2015

Stranglehands wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

The inability to save progress is really a terrible design. It might even be a lawsuit in the making.

Expecting players to sit for an average 2+ hours at a stretch goes against national health recommendations and could lead to DEATH by pulmonary embolism/deep vein thrombosis.

People get REALLY obsessive over completing stuff like this, especially when they lock things like cosmetic costumes behind it. ZOS needs to add a save progress option before they KILL someone. O.O

didn't you ever play sonic the hedgehog and stuff as a kid?

I hit pause, turned the TV off, played football, and came back 2 hours later

Callous2208 · November 2015

I can't help but think some of you fellas not using the few classes/builds that are steamrolling vMA right now won't be so optimistic in a few weeks. Even if you do manage to beat it once, which is unlikely, the likelihood of you wanting to do it again on those classes will be slim to none. It's not about learning the fights, it's praying you get lucky and barely make it through by the skin of your teeth. Or roll a more favorable class, watch one video, and wreck it.

Swindy · November 2015

TheBull wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Just think....their target time is 1.5 hours..........so unless you gear up like everyone else gg lolololol build diversity is dead in arena, and the time it takes to complete vs the pi55 rewards from rng, the arena is just horribad. Great concept love the arena, just fail implementation imo

I disagree with everything in bold, especially the part about build diversity. I've seen tanks doing 5k dps all the way to huge burst dps complete.

Master your style. The first complete is the hardest. The rest get easier. I do wish they'd up the neck and ring drop rate though.

I'm a 100% VR16 legendary medium stamblade excepting two health enchants on jewellery, and I'm not, even buffed with Rally, near 5k dps without a critical hit (<50%) or a stamina sucking WB/Snipe.
Heavy attacks sure but they're useless 99% of normal play.
Please enlighten me how I can gain much needed armour protection and more dps?

I'm not being smart, as I agree with your post. I genuinely kill to learn a better build, as talking in game, my dps is as good or better than all other stamblades.

BalticBlues · November 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

People with a real life cannot play VMA, because RL can interfere anytime.
People can save their game in normal MA, why not in VMA?
What a waste of programming resources.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

People with a real life can set aside time to work on this. Part of managing a real life.

You obviously do not have kids and you have no idea about a real life with kids.

Kids might need you anytime.
Example: You reserve an evening for ESO, but then a kid has a nightmare and needs comfort.
There are more important things in life than this game. The game should be able to "manage" itself and save the progress, instead of ruining the customer experience.

caperon · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I really hope alll the l2p crowd has big pockets to support ZOS, because they don't realize that having elite content for the 2% of the player based that gives the best weapons will only make the population go down.

The other problem I see is the way that ZOS focuses dlc to cater to 1 type of player. IC for pvp (in theory), Orsinium for solo... This way they have a minority of players happy with each DLC and a majority unhappy. Each content release should have a bit for everyone so it can appeal a larger player base. If they really want to focus it, it should be cheaper and actually not mandatory. Because lets face it, you needed IC if you wanted materials at a reasonable time/price, you need Orsinium if you want the best weapons, you need new dlc to have the best xp/time ratios other that some overcrowded cave in cyrodiil... You can see the trend here and how can alienate players.

The real test will be the next DLC, don't forget we have been sold 2 content expansions being worked on since the game release or short after (and at least 1 was meant to be free). I bet business was not going good when they advanced orsinium release like 1 or 2 month, and looking the only statistical source we have access (steam numbers, very incomplete but can show general trends), is still not going well. Thats the nature of pve too, it gets old fast once completed.

90-95% of the content in IC and Orsinium was designed for the majority of players. You act like the hard-mode version of a single Osrinium dungeon is the entire DLC! I still haven't even got all the Skyshards or even started the Wrothgar questline yet I still bought the content. There is something for everyone.

Like a bunch of quest or some skyshards are anything, yes everyone can do it, but not everyone is interested, you as example. Anyway, orsinium is heavy focused to solo players. Very well, lets let the raiding comunity (the few still in the game) rot for 3-4 more months. They could have scalled the old trials, for example, and put it in this dlc, even leaving the loot as is now with an annuncement for the future to throw a bone to those interested. They should give pvp comunity something after the IC fiasco...

ZOS needs to get their *** together and start to pump finished (not half baked as IC districts) content for everyone in every patch unless they want to keep bleeding players in all platforms. I love the game, but im getting tired of being the last on ts and move to another guild ts.

The only real good thing for the game in this patch is the working group finder tool, something dont even need the dlc. All the quests will get old fast, and the maelstrom arena will last a bit longer only because rng madness, and only for a few selected group of players. As I said, i hope they have deep pockets.

Xsorus · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

While I can understand the points many of you are making here I think many of you just need to accept that all content isn't designed for everyone.

To date Aetherian Archive is the only trial I've ever completed. I've completed vDSA exactly once, both because friends had no one else and asked me to come help them. I'm not a big fan of group content, including dungeons so I've spent the past two years using only crafted gear and gear that I could buy on the AH. I've used No monster helms, master weapons or Sanctum gear or anything that I couldn't buy or craft....and I've been fine with that because I'm glad to see different content made for different people and I made do with what I had access to.

MSA is solo content designed for players like me who only loosely group with others but are primarily solo players. Veteran MSA is content that was designed for the hard core veteran who wants some content in the game that isn't EZmode boring. Right now vMSA to me is the most enjoyable PvE content ZoS has released to date because I can't sleep through it all.

Here is a breakdown of my time spent learning and mastering the content. Since I'm primarily a PvP player I had to take a crash course in mastering PvE DPS while learning the content which was fine by me.
PTS: 2 Hours on PTS template, gave up thought it was boring after not being able to make it past round 4 and had no incentive for doing it (Exp/loot etc.)

4.5 Hours to make it to Stage 8 and didn't try it, had to log

5 Hours, got to final boss, wipefest couldn't get him past 20%

5 Hours, finally beat it 122 Deaths

3 Hours 75 Deaths

2 Hours 19 Deaths

Next 20 Runs Between 1 Hour 40 minutes and 2 hours with 5-20 Deaths each (many of my deaths are due to having sporadic internet issues...nothing I can do but die and hope the next attempt doesn't suffer similarly)

1 Hour 30 minutes 0 sigils 0 deaths.

At this point after 25+ Runs I've memorize every wave where it spawns, what to target, what to avoid and I'm finding the content challenging but only in trying to go "Deathless" not in beating it. I have the final boss dying in less than 2 minutes and can't believe I died 200+ times to him. It still takes me around 40 Tri-stat pots with the build that I'm using per run so I figure I'm losing around 4-5K gold a run all things considered which is offset by doing my writ dailies etc.

The point is I have a "Life" outside of the game, I work 10-12 hours of my day and I still had no issues putting up the initial investment in time and repairs to learn the content. I'm sure better players than I have done this all in far less time. If this is too much for many of you, you don't *have* to do the content and complete it. Enjoy the rest of what the game offers and move on just as I have for 90%+ of the game. Let us enjoy our challenging content and you can enjoy the content designed for you.

Phinix1 wrote: »

The inability to save progress is really a terrible design. It might even be a lawsuit in the making.

Expecting players to sit for an average 2+ hours at a stretch goes against national health recommendations and could lead to DEATH by pulmonary embolism/deep vein thrombosis.

People get REALLY obsessive over completing stuff like this, especially when they lock things like cosmetic costumes behind it. ZOS needs to add a save progress option before they KILL someone. O.O

And this is such a joke. I guarantee the majority of players with a V16 character regularly play for 2+ hours at a time already. Trying to scare ZoS into nerfing content for your personal preference is pretty weak.

Why do i have the feeling that if you didn't play a Sorc in VMA; you wouldn't be telling people to suck it up.

sagitter · November 2015

Stop QQ and don't give up, it's just practice , experience ,and mechanic knowing.First time i finished it , took almost 9 hours and i had all v14 gear , except for the jewels and weapon v16. Now with the experience i finish it in 1.5 hour. There is only one issue for me, when you go afk , just 20 min, and get auto kicked, you have to restart stage 1.

Phinix1 · November 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Being able to start playing at any point in the arena (which is what saving does) significantly decreases the difficulty level. Stop trying to make this into something it is not. I have no desire for vMSA to be the core design model of the game or your insinuation for bragging rights. I've long outgrown that desire.

Fair enough.

But I am still waiting for an adequate explanation how being able to save progress on a difficult task makes the task less difficult.

I am STILL waiting.

Ezareth · November 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

While I can understand the points many of you are making here I think many of you just need to accept that all content isn't designed for everyone.

To date Aetherian Archive is the only trial I've ever completed. I've completed vDSA exactly once, both because friends had no one else and asked me to come help them. I'm not a big fan of group content, including dungeons so I've spent the past two years using only crafted gear and gear that I could buy on the AH. I've used No monster helms, master weapons or Sanctum gear or anything that I couldn't buy or craft....and I've been fine with that because I'm glad to see different content made for different people and I made do with what I had access to.

MSA is solo content designed for players like me who only loosely group with others but are primarily solo players. Veteran MSA is content that was designed for the hard core veteran who wants some content in the game that isn't EZmode boring. Right now vMSA to me is the most enjoyable PvE content ZoS has released to date because I can't sleep through it all.

Here is a breakdown of my time spent learning and mastering the content. Since I'm primarily a PvP player I had to take a crash course in mastering PvE DPS while learning the content which was fine by me.
PTS: 2 Hours on PTS template, gave up thought it was boring after not being able to make it past round 4 and had no incentive for doing it (Exp/loot etc.)

4.5 Hours to make it to Stage 8 and didn't try it, had to log

5 Hours, got to final boss, wipefest couldn't get him past 20%

5 Hours, finally beat it 122 Deaths

3 Hours 75 Deaths

2 Hours 19 Deaths

Next 20 Runs Between 1 Hour 40 minutes and 2 hours with 5-20 Deaths each (many of my deaths are due to having sporadic internet issues...nothing I can do but die and hope the next attempt doesn't suffer similarly)

1 Hour 30 minutes 0 sigils 0 deaths.

At this point after 25+ Runs I've memorize every wave where it spawns, what to target, what to avoid and I'm finding the content challenging but only in trying to go "Deathless" not in beating it. I have the final boss dying in less than 2 minutes and can't believe I died 200+ times to him. It still takes me around 40 Tri-stat pots with the build that I'm using per run so I figure I'm losing around 4-5K gold a run all things considered which is offset by doing my writ dailies etc.

The point is I have a "Life" outside of the game, I work 10-12 hours of my day and I still had no issues putting up the initial investment in time and repairs to learn the content. I'm sure better players than I have done this all in far less time. If this is too much for many of you, you don't *have* to do the content and complete it. Enjoy the rest of what the game offers and move on just as I have for 90%+ of the game. Let us enjoy our challenging content and you can enjoy the content designed for you.

Phinix1 wrote: »

The inability to save progress is really a terrible design. It might even be a lawsuit in the making.

Expecting players to sit for an average 2+ hours at a stretch goes against national health recommendations and could lead to DEATH by pulmonary embolism/deep vein thrombosis.

People get REALLY obsessive over completing stuff like this, especially when they lock things like cosmetic costumes behind it. ZOS needs to add a save progress option before they KILL someone. O.O

And this is such a joke. I guarantee the majority of players with a V16 character regularly play for 2+ hours at a time already. Trying to scare ZoS into nerfing content for your personal preference is pretty weak.

Why do i have the feeling that if you didn't play a Sorc in VMA; you wouldn't be telling people to suck it up.

Aren't your Anti-Sorc tirades tiresome yet? I've been listening to them for the past 8 months now?

Have any of these players complaining about vDSA even spent *half* the time or deaths learning the Arena that I had to on my "Ezmode" sorc? No . I remember @Nifty2g complaining about the difficulty when it was launch on his templar and yet he's now completed the arena in *half* the time that I have.

If there are players out there who have spent 15+ hours trying to beat this and are still unable to kill the final boss then I'd say they probably have a valid concern, but everyone I know who has beat the Arena has done so in far less time than that.

Ezareth · November 2015

caperon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I really hope alll the l2p crowd has big pockets to support ZOS, because they don't realize that having elite content for the 2% of the player based that gives the best weapons will only make the population go down.

The other problem I see is the way that ZOS focuses dlc to cater to 1 type of player. IC for pvp (in theory), Orsinium for solo... This way they have a minority of players happy with each DLC and a majority unhappy. Each content release should have a bit for everyone so it can appeal a larger player base. If they really want to focus it, it should be cheaper and actually not mandatory. Because lets face it, you needed IC if you wanted materials at a reasonable time/price, you need Orsinium if you want the best weapons, you need new dlc to have the best xp/time ratios other that some overcrowded cave in cyrodiil... You can see the trend here and how can alienate players.

The real test will be the next DLC, don't forget we have been sold 2 content expansions being worked on since the game release or short after (and at least 1 was meant to be free). I bet business was not going good when they advanced orsinium release like 1 or 2 month, and looking the only statistical source we have access (steam numbers, very incomplete but can show general trends), is still not going well. Thats the nature of pve too, it gets old fast once completed.

90-95% of the content in IC and Orsinium was designed for the majority of players. You act like the hard-mode version of a single Osrinium dungeon is the entire DLC! I still haven't even got all the Skyshards or even started the Wrothgar questline yet I still bought the content. There is something for everyone.

Like a bunch of quest or some skyshards are anything, yes everyone can do it, but not everyone is interested, you as example. Anyway, orsinium is heavy focused to solo players. Very well, lets let the raiding comunity (the few still in the game) rot for 3-4 more months.

That "Bunch of Quest and Skyshards" are where the devs spent the vast majority of their time and where the majority of the players will spend their time playing the game. The hard core gamers always get the smallest slice of the pie but I happen to LIKE this pie.

Nifty2g · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

While I can understand the points many of you are making here I think many of you just need to accept that all content isn't designed for everyone.

To date Aetherian Archive is the only trial I've ever completed. I've completed vDSA exactly once, both because friends had no one else and asked me to come help them. I'm not a big fan of group content, including dungeons so I've spent the past two years using only crafted gear and gear that I could buy on the AH. I've used No monster helms, master weapons or Sanctum gear or anything that I couldn't buy or craft....and I've been fine with that because I'm glad to see different content made for different people and I made do with what I had access to.

MSA is solo content designed for players like me who only loosely group with others but are primarily solo players. Veteran MSA is content that was designed for the hard core veteran who wants some content in the game that isn't EZmode boring. Right now vMSA to me is the most enjoyable PvE content ZoS has released to date because I can't sleep through it all.

Here is a breakdown of my time spent learning and mastering the content. Since I'm primarily a PvP player I had to take a crash course in mastering PvE DPS while learning the content which was fine by me.
PTS: 2 Hours on PTS template, gave up thought it was boring after not being able to make it past round 4 and had no incentive for doing it (Exp/loot etc.)

4.5 Hours to make it to Stage 8 and didn't try it, had to log

5 Hours, got to final boss, wipefest couldn't get him past 20%

5 Hours, finally beat it 122 Deaths

3 Hours 75 Deaths

2 Hours 19 Deaths

Next 20 Runs Between 1 Hour 40 minutes and 2 hours with 5-20 Deaths each (many of my deaths are due to having sporadic internet issues...nothing I can do but die and hope the next attempt doesn't suffer similarly)

1 Hour 30 minutes 0 sigils 0 deaths.

At this point after 25+ Runs I've memorize every wave where it spawns, what to target, what to avoid and I'm finding the content challenging but only in trying to go "Deathless" not in beating it. I have the final boss dying in less than 2 minutes and can't believe I died 200+ times to him. It still takes me around 40 Tri-stat pots with the build that I'm using per run so I figure I'm losing around 4-5K gold a run all things considered which is offset by doing my writ dailies etc.

The point is I have a "Life" outside of the game, I work 10-12 hours of my day and I still had no issues putting up the initial investment in time and repairs to learn the content. I'm sure better players than I have done this all in far less time. If this is too much for many of you, you don't *have* to do the content and complete it. Enjoy the rest of what the game offers and move on just as I have for 90%+ of the game. Let us enjoy our challenging content and you can enjoy the content designed for you.

Phinix1 wrote: »

The inability to save progress is really a terrible design. It might even be a lawsuit in the making.

Expecting players to sit for an average 2+ hours at a stretch goes against national health recommendations and could lead to DEATH by pulmonary embolism/deep vein thrombosis.

People get REALLY obsessive over completing stuff like this, especially when they lock things like cosmetic costumes behind it. ZOS needs to add a save progress option before they KILL someone. O.O

And this is such a joke. I guarantee the majority of players with a V16 character regularly play for 2+ hours at a time already. Trying to scare ZoS into nerfing content for your personal preference is pretty weak.

Why do i have the feeling that if you didn't play a Sorc in VMA; you wouldn't be telling people to suck it up.

Aren't your Anti-Sorc tirades tiresome yet? I've been listening to them for the past 8 months now?

Have any of these players complaining about vDSA even spent *half* the time or deaths learning the Arena that I had to on my "Ezmode" sorc? No . I remember @Nifty2g complaining about the difficulty when it was launch on his templar and yet he's now completed the arena in *half* the time that I have.

If there are players out there who have spent 15+ hours trying to beat this and are still unable to kill the final boss then I'd say they probably have a valid concern, but everyone I know who has beat the Arena has done so in far less time than that.

@Ezareth lol yeah, i went in blind without knowing or testing anything on the pts and hated the amount of damage output, all of it was on my end not knowing anything, and i've been used to how vdsa works so i was totally not prepared but since then if you learn the spawns, what enemy to taken down, what triggers the next spawns, what enemies to drag to others and how to speed your time up, knowing and having strategies help a lot, and it's something you have to come up with yourself which is why I personally like the arena now.

Fyi I played on a sorc fully speced into damage without a resto staff, my templar is still faster, sorcerer just has the shields. then again im sure other sorcerers like dymence and sneaky know pretty much everything, I think I could get close to their clear time if i had a complete flawless perfect run

caperon · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I really hope alll the l2p crowd has big pockets to support ZOS, because they don't realize that having elite content for the 2% of the player based that gives the best weapons will only make the population go down.

The other problem I see is the way that ZOS focuses dlc to cater to 1 type of player. IC for pvp (in theory), Orsinium for solo... This way they have a minority of players happy with each DLC and a majority unhappy. Each content release should have a bit for everyone so it can appeal a larger player base. If they really want to focus it, it should be cheaper and actually not mandatory. Because lets face it, you needed IC if you wanted materials at a reasonable time/price, you need Orsinium if you want the best weapons, you need new dlc to have the best xp/time ratios other that some overcrowded cave in cyrodiil... You can see the trend here and how can alienate players.

The real test will be the next DLC, don't forget we have been sold 2 content expansions being worked on since the game release or short after (and at least 1 was meant to be free). I bet business was not going good when they advanced orsinium release like 1 or 2 month, and looking the only statistical source we have access (steam numbers, very incomplete but can show general trends), is still not going well. Thats the nature of pve too, it gets old fast once completed.

90-95% of the content in IC and Orsinium was designed for the majority of players. You act like the hard-mode version of a single Osrinium dungeon is the entire DLC! I still haven't even got all the Skyshards or even started the Wrothgar questline yet I still bought the content. There is something for everyone.

Like a bunch of quest or some skyshards are anything, yes everyone can do it, but not everyone is interested, you as example. Anyway, orsinium is heavy focused to solo players. Very well, lets let the raiding comunity (the few still in the game) rot for 3-4 more months.

That "Bunch of Quest and Skyshards" are where the devs spent the vast majority of their time and where the majority of the players will spend their time playing the game. The hard core gamers always get the smallest slice of the pie but I happen to LIKE this pie.

If that's where devs spend the majority of their time its no wonder why we (TESO) are where we are. Single player PVE can't las enought to keep an MMO healthy, they better learn it before its too late.

Ezareth · November 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

While I can understand the points many of you are making here I think many of you just need to accept that all content isn't designed for everyone.

To date Aetherian Archive is the only trial I've ever completed. I've completed vDSA exactly once, both because friends had no one else and asked me to come help them. I'm not a big fan of group content, including dungeons so I've spent the past two years using only crafted gear and gear that I could buy on the AH. I've used No monster helms, master weapons or Sanctum gear or anything that I couldn't buy or craft....and I've been fine with that because I'm glad to see different content made for different people and I made do with what I had access to.

MSA is solo content designed for players like me who only loosely group with others but are primarily solo players. Veteran MSA is content that was designed for the hard core veteran who wants some content in the game that isn't EZmode boring. Right now vMSA to me is the most enjoyable PvE content ZoS has released to date because I can't sleep through it all.

Here is a breakdown of my time spent learning and mastering the content. Since I'm primarily a PvP player I had to take a crash course in mastering PvE DPS while learning the content which was fine by me.
PTS: 2 Hours on PTS template, gave up thought it was boring after not being able to make it past round 4 and had no incentive for doing it (Exp/loot etc.)

4.5 Hours to make it to Stage 8 and didn't try it, had to log

5 Hours, got to final boss, wipefest couldn't get him past 20%

5 Hours, finally beat it 122 Deaths

3 Hours 75 Deaths

2 Hours 19 Deaths

Next 20 Runs Between 1 Hour 40 minutes and 2 hours with 5-20 Deaths each (many of my deaths are due to having sporadic internet issues...nothing I can do but die and hope the next attempt doesn't suffer similarly)

1 Hour 30 minutes 0 sigils 0 deaths.

At this point after 25+ Runs I've memorize every wave where it spawns, what to target, what to avoid and I'm finding the content challenging but only in trying to go "Deathless" not in beating it. I have the final boss dying in less than 2 minutes and can't believe I died 200+ times to him. It still takes me around 40 Tri-stat pots with the build that I'm using per run so I figure I'm losing around 4-5K gold a run all things considered which is offset by doing my writ dailies etc.

The point is I have a "Life" outside of the game, I work 10-12 hours of my day and I still had no issues putting up the initial investment in time and repairs to learn the content. I'm sure better players than I have done this all in far less time. If this is too much for many of you, you don't *have* to do the content and complete it. Enjoy the rest of what the game offers and move on just as I have for 90%+ of the game. Let us enjoy our challenging content and you can enjoy the content designed for you.

Phinix1 wrote: »

The inability to save progress is really a terrible design. It might even be a lawsuit in the making.

Expecting players to sit for an average 2+ hours at a stretch goes against national health recommendations and could lead to DEATH by pulmonary embolism/deep vein thrombosis.

People get REALLY obsessive over completing stuff like this, especially when they lock things like cosmetic costumes behind it. ZOS needs to add a save progress option before they KILL someone. O.O

And this is such a joke. I guarantee the majority of players with a V16 character regularly play for 2+ hours at a time already. Trying to scare ZoS into nerfing content for your personal preference is pretty weak.

Why do i have the feeling that if you didn't play a Sorc in VMA; you wouldn't be telling people to suck it up.

Aren't your Anti-Sorc tirades tiresome yet? I've been listening to them for the past 8 months now?

Have any of these players complaining about vDSA even spent *half* the time or deaths learning the Arena that I had to on my "Ezmode" sorc? No . I remember @Nifty2g complaining about the difficulty when it was launch on his templar and yet he's now completed the arena in *half* the time that I have.

If there are players out there who have spent 15+ hours trying to beat this and are still unable to kill the final boss then I'd say they probably have a valid concern, but everyone I know who has beat the Arena has done so in far less time than that.

@Ezareth lol yeah, i went in blind without knowing or testing anything on the pts and hated the amount of damage output, all of it was on my end not knowing anything, and i've been used to how vdsa works so i was totally not prepared but since then if you learn the spawns, what enemy to taken down, what triggers the next spawns, what enemies to drag to others and how to speed your time up, knowing and having strategies help a lot, and it's something you have to come up with yourself which is why I personally like the arena now.

Fyi I played on a sorc fully speced into damage without a resto staff, my templar is still faster, sorcerer just has the shields. then again im sure other sorcerers like dymence and sneaky know pretty much everything, I think I could get close to their clear time if i had a complete flawless perfect run

My only flawless run so far was 90 minutes. My biggest barrier to improving my times much more is gear. I haven't got a single Maelstrom weapon I can use or been able to complete enough pieces of a set that I'd like to use..and I don't have a Kena piece or any monster sets so I'm stuck with crafted gear.

I think once I add a few pieces of gear that I'll be able to push my DPS further which should make several boss fights that I have to space out now die much quicker. The longest fights for me right now are the Stage 6 and Stage 7 bosses.

caperon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

I really hope alll the l2p crowd has big pockets to support ZOS, because they don't realize that having elite content for the 2% of the player based that gives the best weapons will only make the population go down.

The other problem I see is the way that ZOS focuses dlc to cater to 1 type of player. IC for pvp (in theory), Orsinium for solo... This way they have a minority of players happy with each DLC and a majority unhappy. Each content release should have a bit for everyone so it can appeal a larger player base. If they really want to focus it, it should be cheaper and actually not mandatory. Because lets face it, you needed IC if you wanted materials at a reasonable time/price, you need Orsinium if you want the best weapons, you need new dlc to have the best xp/time ratios other that some overcrowded cave in cyrodiil... You can see the trend here and how can alienate players.

The real test will be the next DLC, don't forget we have been sold 2 content expansions being worked on since the game release or short after (and at least 1 was meant to be free). I bet business was not going good when they advanced orsinium release like 1 or 2 month, and looking the only statistical source we have access (steam numbers, very incomplete but can show general trends), is still not going well. Thats the nature of pve too, it gets old fast once completed.

90-95% of the content in IC and Orsinium was designed for the majority of players. You act like the hard-mode version of a single Osrinium dungeon is the entire DLC! I still haven't even got all the Skyshards or even started the Wrothgar questline yet I still bought the content. There is something for everyone.

Like a bunch of quest or some skyshards are anything, yes everyone can do it, but not everyone is interested, you as example. Anyway, orsinium is heavy focused to solo players. Very well, lets let the raiding comunity (the few still in the game) rot for 3-4 more months.

That "Bunch of Quest and Skyshards" are where the devs spent the vast majority of their time and where the majority of the players will spend their time playing the game. The hard core gamers always get the smallest slice of the pie but I happen to LIKE this pie.

If that's where devs spend the majority of their time its no wonder why we (TESO) are where we are. Single player PVE can't las enought to keep an MMO healthy, they better learn it before its too late.

Well Osrinium was definitely an improvement over IC(especially given how long IC was stuck in development) so I think the jury is still out. If they can release 4 major content releases a year I'll be content.

Islyn · November 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

People with a real life cannot play VMA, because RL can interfere anytime.
People can save their game in normal MA, why not in VMA?
What a waste of programming resources.

Yeah I just know unless I can save it won't happen for me - but that's ok. My kids get good grades, I have a nice house and job and my husband ;-)

If I could save I'd make armor for it and all that but as it stands not so much.

Islyn · November 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Being able to start playing at any point in the arena (which is what saving does) significantly decreases the difficulty level. Stop trying to make this into something it is not. I have no desire for vMSA to be the core design model of the game or your insinuation for bragging rights. I've long outgrown that desire.

Fair enough.

But I am still waiting for an adequate explanation how being able to save progress on a difficult task makes the task less difficult.

It doesn't. Some of us cannot play 6+ hours straight. Kids, sex life, work, you know. Actual important stuff happens.

kargen27 · November 2015

My main character is a healer. I don't have a DPS build anywhere near ready to try veteran Maelstrom Arena and probably never will. I am okay with that, I realize there are some aspects of the game that just are not for me. What I would like to see is some PvE content similar in difficulty but taking healing skills and content taking tanking skills.

For healing maybe a scenario where you have to keep a group of people alive as they move through from one point to another. They could be injured by falling rocks, lava eruptions, any manner of things that can't be dealt with by killing the threat. Maybe the group gets split so the healer has to go between groups running back and forth keeping both alive.

A tank scenario you could have a group that needs to preform tasks that take time or sneak past creatures that can't be killed. The tank has to keep the creatures occupied and survive while the group does what needs done.

Just some kind of scenario that takes better than average tanking or healing to complete. Something that a pure DPS character is going to find he/she can't do no matter how great the DPS.

To much late and end game content is about simply burning things down as quick as possible through massive amounts of damage. Time for ESO to show some love to tanks and healers with some content designed with us in mind.

No need to nerf Maelstrom Arena just sometime in the future think about those of us that choose not to go the DPS route.

Islyn · November 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

People with a real life cannot play VMA, because RL can interfere anytime.
People can save their game in normal MA, why not in VMA?
What a waste of programming resources.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

People with a real life can set aside time to work on this. Part of managing a real life.

You obviously do not have kids and you have no idea about a real life with kids.

Kids might need you anytime.
Example: You reserve an evening for ESO, but then a kid has a nightmare and needs comfort.
There are more important things in life than this game. The game should be able to "manage" itself and save the progress, instead of ruining the customer experience.

Exactly! If my husband gets home early and I am in the middle of a game something, I am not going to be all *fu hunny, see ya when i see ya*

Children want snacks, and water, and need to pee and have homework and to be read to and to have a cuddle. You do NOT tell your family to Go Away so you can game. You *Alt F4* and go do what you need to do.

That is managing a life.

Giledfloydwhatever up there clearly has No Idea.

Swindy · November 2015

kargen27 wrote: »

My main character is a healer. I don't have a DPS build anywhere near ready to try veteran Maelstrom Arena and probably never will. I am okay with that, I realize there are some aspects of the game that just are not for me. What I would like to see is some PvE content similar in difficulty but taking healing skills and content taking tanking skills.

For healing maybe a scenario where you have to keep a group of people alive as they move through from one point to another. They could be injured by falling rocks, lava eruptions, any manner of things that can't be dealt with by killing the threat. Maybe the group gets split so the healer has to go between groups running back and forth keeping both alive.

A tank scenario you could have a group that needs to preform tasks that take time or sneak past creatures that can't be killed. The tank has to keep the creatures occupied and survive while the group does what needs done.

Just some kind of scenario that takes better than average tanking or healing to complete. Something that a pure DPS character is going to find he/she can't do no matter how great the DPS.

To much late and end game content is about simply burning things down as quick as possible through massive amounts of damage. Time for ESO to show some love to tanks and healers with some content designed with us in mind.

No need to nerf Maelstrom Arena just sometime in the future think about those of us that choose not to go the DPS route.

I'm stamblade and yet this guy speaks my mind.

I've built a character for end game Dark Brotherhood & Thieves Guild etc content that has not eventuated as yet, so I'm just a pile of dust waiting for a sorc to velocious curse/crystal frag me into state most of the time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a hell of a ganker, & 1v1 or even 1v2 I'll take on anyone (accept sorcs) with a better than even win ratio, but the ranged / burst dps of sorcs is still king.
Healers, tanks, NB (who don't want to hunt in cloak packs)...there's limited opportunities in solo end game material...none of us are ranged sustainable dps in design, and I can't stealth the arena or a keep...

usmcjdking · November 2015

I haven't given up on ESO, but I did give up on vMA at the Frozen Rink. I can't double my damage output with my build and the gear I prefer to use. It simply can't be done so why the *** would I bother? I was able to go from 5.5ish S/T to7.3ish S/T by swapping out a few skills (went from S&B/Resto to S&B/2H) but my sustained DPS went down the drain due to poor returns in the resource:damage ratio.

Switched to DPS gear and had higher potential DPS, but failed tremendously due to lackluster returns on rally and vigor which forced me to back off far too frequently for too long.

kargen27 wrote: »

My main character is a healer. I don't have a DPS build anywhere near ready to try veteran Maelstrom Arena and probably never will. I am okay with that, I realize there are some aspects of the game that just are not for me. What I would like to see is some PvE content similar in difficulty but taking healing skills and content taking tanking skills.

For healing maybe a scenario where you have to keep a group of people alive as they move through from one point to another. They could be injured by falling rocks, lava eruptions, any manner of things that can't be dealt with by killing the threat. Maybe the group gets split so the healer has to go between groups running back and forth keeping both alive.

A tank scenario you could have a group that needs to preform tasks that take time or sneak past creatures that can't be killed. The tank has to keep the creatures occupied and survive while the group does what needs done.

Just some kind of scenario that takes better than average tanking or healing to complete. Something that a pure DPS character is going to find he/she can't do no matter how great the DPS.

To much late and end game content is about simply burning things down as quick as possible through massive amounts of damage. Time for ESO to show some love to tanks and healers with some content designed with us in mind.

No need to nerf Maelstrom Arena just sometime in the future think about those of us that choose not to go the DPS route.

Whilst your heart is in the right place, I wholeheartedly disagree.

There should be no content that is specialized to be completed by a specific role. The cries for challenge are only present because there are serious balance issues in regards to just about 90% of the skills in the game and uncapped character progression which is causing character performance well beyond the scope of what the game's difficulty is designed to handle.

Developers have since decided to ignore balance in favor of more gimmicks (and meaningless nerfs) to force a vast majority of builds to adhere to their content design whilst leaving others completely untouched and unregulated. You can only address the meta when the playing field is even to begin with. Else, you get even worse balancing issues than you started with.