A single reason of why it will never be possible is skills strongly scale with spell damage, hence why it is widely regarded and stacked. Sorc pets on the other hand do not scale AT ALL with spell damage, only relying on magicka scaling to increase their output. Basically you can make your pet hit harder, but you hit like a wet flannel and, realistically, so does the pet still.

Pet builds are for (generally) for soloing. This makes them perfect for the arena.

A magicka maxed out build will produce decent damage with pets. Also for thinking purposes, resto staff heals them wit heavy attack, ward shields them, combat prayer boosts them.

Tho the set is limited by rank, the passives produced by tha necro set can be massive (in fact on show me your sorc I believe a guy pointed out max magicka build its in there)

In PvP and groups pets are discouraged, as they aggro everything it can play havok on team coordination. Tanks don't like it when other things aggro. In 1v1 PvP they can be fine, but without specifying which enemy group PvP goes down hill.

If you wanna min max good things to know for pets are: they attack every two seconds, they are considered "allies," their crit is your crit, and they scale with magicka.

Kaliki wrote: »

@Trihugger, @Sharmony:
You are wrong.

1) Pets do not take full damage from AoEs.
2) Although pets do not scale from Spell Damage, this is no reason not to have one. By stacking magicka, i.e. using the set that grants extra magicka for having a pet active you can have a very simple but powerful build (especially since hardened ward also scales well with magicka, and the bonus damage from magicka was buffed to be more in line with spell power).

Although pet builds might not be the best in game, they can be very viable, see link below.
I have easily done maelstrom arena with one and did veteran maelstrom without problems until a crash in arena 6 on the boss (on my vet 11 sorc).

@hamburgerler76:
Here's a viable pet build by ESOmax on Tamrielfoundry: tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-17-kitty-zap-endgame-sorcerer-dps-build/
I am not sure if it is still that good on v16 end game as the item set used is only available up to veteran rank 12, but it is a solid build that does good damage and has awesome survivability using your sorcerer shield.

Saying someone isn't straight out wrong isn't very productive I'm afraid but thank you for explaining why we are 'wrong'. It is common to not run pet builds at end game for competitive play as their damage is worse than other spell damage and play alternative builds. Please note I say it will never be possible purely in a competitive sense, soloing a trial boss or suggesting it could be competitive in arena is in my opinion not good enough to call it a viable as you cannot rely purely on a pet and the reduction in damage to yourself is too severe by not stacking spell damage (see spell damage vs magicka curves if you require more information on this, there's many available). You can say it works as you've stated, but as you've stated it isn't the best build and there are many better than it (even using trapping webs Thaumaturge build is stronger). Hence if you wish to find

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

a good dps build witch utilizes the pets

there isn't a strong enough one in game at the moment. If you wish to use a weaker build that is a choice that is open to all and I would not judge anyone for doing so, it's their choice

Kaliki wrote: »

@Sharmony:
Did you look at the build I posted? It is basically a force pulse build besides the high overload damage and the dps even without using ultimate is good.
It only uses one pet for some extra 10% magicka, 10% magicka regeneration and it also does some damage.

I do about the same dps with it in on vr 10 than I can if I have to range dps with my main vr16 Templar with fairly optimized gear...

You are a bit harsh for dismissing pets completely just because it might not be the best of the best.
I think being able to outdps templars means its viable. ^^

I did It is but high overload is very important in trials and arena, the overload bar itself and the damage it produces provides the sorc with the best burst and flexibility in the game - it's a must, particularly in MSA in some rounds. The only time you really use a sorc pet is if you know you will be able to overload the entire fight, and this is only to boost your dps as you will be overloading constantly (examples of this are manti in trials and many bosses in the two new vet dungeons of ICP, it is a tad harder to achieve this in MSA but I believe people are using this here as well). Templar is a very bad class to compare dps with and would never even factor it in with the other classes, if you are looking for a good comparison sorcerers should always compare their non overload dps to magicka nightblades (these are of course both magicka and the best comparison for the class ). I'm not trying to be harsh here, but have played extensively at end game both competitively and non competitively, also I love theorycrafting, it's probably my favourite thing in this game! From all this I would advise people not to use the build if they want to give themselves the best chance of completing content such as MSA Vet. This is all I'm here to say in a nutshell: "You can do it, but you're only going to make most things harder for youself."

Thelon wrote: »

@Sharmony

Good Pet builds stack spell damage. Try reading them.

Not as much as non pet builds, hence they are not as strong, please see my previous post to explain as I already did. Appreciated.

Thelon wrote: »

@Sharmony

Edited to provide more context.

Appreciated.

Thelon wrote: »

@Sharmony
Just because you can get a bit more DPS on a pure caster build doesn't mean other approaches aren't viable. Pet builds are also less healer-reliant for resource management.

I never have said they weren't viable, once again to quote myself:

Sharmony wrote: »

Hence if you wish to find

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

a good dps build witch utilizes the pets

there isn't a strong enough one in game at the moment. If you wish to use a weaker build that is a choice that is open to all and I would not judge anyone for doing so, it's their choice

In the context of what we've been talking about the latter comment of pet builds being less healer reliant is true, but is more restrictive in bar space and flexibility. Consequently you can do more damage with spell damage builds whilst sustaining and achieving as much survivability with added flexibility from the additional bar slot freed up by not having the pet equipped. As far as I can see you can use the pet build previously linked by @Kaliki but this won't be as powerful in the majority of content besides solo quest content, of which I would still prefer to run with a spell damage build as although it would drop small amounts of surviviability things dont hit you as much as they are dead faster and questing can be achieved faster therefore

Kaliki wrote: »

@Sharmony:
I guess Ill have to give in to your expertise then.

Im not a big theorycrafter and for me, this simple pet build is already making things easy compared to my templar, where I did carefully think about my build.
Sad if it can be even easier.

I'm just trying to help, it's not a matter of giving in I know that in competitive solo, 4man and 12 man content we are not running pet builds unless we are able to overload the entire duration of the fight (or at least until the execute). Things can often be easier but sometimes making things easier puts you at more risk, for example, if you don't have enough dps in some of the MSA boss fights you open to yourself receiving more mechanics, increasing your likelihood of death through mechanic overlap or higher received proportions of one shot mechanics.

@Waffennacht: I know, just not the 10% Magicka from the 5 pc set bonus and the 10% regen from the Restoring Twilight.
If I dont run with a pet I do slot one of those skills usually.

As a templar i cannot tell about how things are with more dps... Cant do more than stacking SP and spam puncturing sweep.

But yeah, in the end it is true that more dps is sadly always what you should aim for.

Only advantage of a pet in VMA could be that it tends to take npcs aggro... which I usually liked.

Thelon wrote: »

@Sharmony

Sharmony wrote: »

I never have said they weren't viable

Ummmm

Sharmony wrote: »

soloing a trial boss or suggesting it could be competitive in arena is in my opinion not good enough to call it viable

Ahh yes, forgive me, but still, viable in this sense was used instead of the word optimal, feel free to pick apart my words but my point still stands. Please see every other time in this post that I didn't refer to the build as not viable. If you want to play a build that is inherently weaker in nearly all content the choice is yours and no one will stop you, your character is your own and this game allows you to play anything you wish As I said before, just trying to help in responding to the original question with what I know about the game having previously mentioned all this etc...

Kaliki wrote: »

Well, its a matter of definition between the viable I meant and the viable @Sharmony meant.

We would have to know if the OP means viable for common trials, dungeons or viable for competitive leaderboard climbing.

Indeed, if you want to complete something the build you are suggesting could theoretically complete most content as far I'm aware, would struggle in later stages of MSA vet. As I said previously though, you can play the build but you're only making the content harder on yourself, as most competitive builds are better to play, hence the reason they are competitive in the first place

so all ive taken from this is that pet builds are viable but not min/max witch I think im ok with I ran vet banished cells as the main dps today on my vet 2 sorc just to test some builds went just fine could have used better tank but all good thanks guys for all the info gave me a lot to think about!

At v12 i solo ed coa with a pet build

Trihugger wrote: »

hamburgerler76 wrote: »

so all ive taken from this is that pet builds are viable but not min/max witch I think im ok with I ran vet banished cells as the main dps today on my vet 2 sorc just to test some builds went just fine could have used better tank but all good thanks guys for all the info gave me a lot to think about!

I am very glad you're able to play what is enjoyable for you =D.

Just a few words of caution/checks to make moving forward:

1) Pick up a damage meter so you yourself definitively know what kind of results are actually being produced.

2) Wait to pass judgement on "working" until you've done a more difficult vet dungeon. Imperial City Prison > White Gold Tower > City of Ash > Others is how I and most others I've talked with seem to rate the overall difficulty (Not saying they're hard, just that they are a step up from the rest).

My initial comments were based off a similar level (VR1) dungeon run I did where my pets just exploded every pull to anything and everything. If that's not the case and they can survive being breathed on then, while not optimal, I can see pets being something to play with.

Nothing is more miserable than those 3 dungeons I mentioned though than bad damage as everything about them becomes that much more difficult for the entire party.

Yeah, White Gold Tower may be a bit of a challenge for a Pet Build... I mean, the pet's could pull the Adds, but Inhibitor will wreck the caster.

I'm running a pet sorc build with morkuldin and the maw of inferno set right now. Heavy attacks from resto and lightning staff and overload have a good chance to proc them and there is good synergies with other sorc skills.

They aren't easy sets to get though and 1v1 in pvp is a bad idea. but I'm an orc sorc so I just have to run away.

Here's a video of overload proccing them both xboxdvr.com/gamer/SmellierToast00/video/12821712