LFG Tool on Normal Dungeons and Soul Gems needs IMMEDIATE FIX ACTION

UrQuan · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

Hmm, I was unaware that prior to the changes to the grouping tool a level 10 might end up grouped with a VR16 when queuing for a dungeon of his level. Please point me to examples of this happening before the update to the LFG tool. Because that's literally the entire point: when you're choosing the specific people in your group it's not an issue. When you're having your group chosen for you then it's an issue.

And what the hell are you talking about when you say you're not going to comment on the "rude remarks"? Where has anybody in this thread had any rude remarks?

There were and no limitations to someone grouping with another player prior to grouping tools enhancements where one player was outside of 10+ levels of another. Actually it was very common for people to power level friends in places like Fungal Grotto and other dungeons. Then to move on but the issue that you're looking at has nothing to do with a player level.

That is the whole point and why this change has nothing to do with the soul gem concern.

The concern you have as well as myself is that in order to rez another player, (regardless of either players level) the soul gem must be of level to rez the dead player.

A level 10 can rez a VR16 with a grand soul gem. So the grouping tools isn't creating an issue due to level variance.
The design and restrictions of all soul gems create an issue that is now being brought to more people's attention that has been identified and discussed as an issue over a year ago.

No, you're completely 100% missing the point.

A noob going to his first dungeon at level 10-14 uses the LFG tool to find a group to run it with. He's not a member of a guild to run dungeons with, he doesn't have more than a couple of people on his friends list because he's new to the game. He's got soul gems of his level that have dropped. Prior to the change to the LFG tool, he would be matched with people in the same level range as him, so his soul gems were fine.

After the change to the LFG tool he could matched with VR1-VR16 players, so he's SOL because he doesn't have any grand soul gems. He's brand new, and he can't afford to go out and buy grand soul gems. If he's not interested in PVP, he's not even going to know where he can get grand soul gems.

THAT is the issue - not what people who specifically choose to group with people well above their level do. When you make that choice it's on you. When the LFG tool makes that choice for you, it shouldn't be.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

Hmm, I was unaware that prior to the changes to the grouping tool a level 10 might end up grouped with a VR16 when queuing for a dungeon of his level. Please point me to examples of this happening before the update to the LFG tool. Because that's literally the entire point: when you're choosing the specific people in your group it's not an issue. When you're having your group chosen for you then it's an issue.

And what the hell are you talking about when you say you're not going to comment on the "rude remarks"? Where has anybody in this thread had any rude remarks?

There were and no limitations to someone grouping with another player prior to grouping tools enhancements where one player was outside of 10+ levels of another. Actually it was very common for people to power level friends in places like Fungal Grotto and other dungeons. Then to move on but the issue that you're looking at has nothing to do with a player level.

That is the whole point and why this change has nothing to do with the soul gem concern.

The concern you have as well as myself is that in order to rez another player, (regardless of either players level) the soul gem must be of level to rez the dead player.

A level 10 can rez a VR16 with a grand soul gem. So the grouping tools isn't creating an issue due to level variance.
The design and restrictions of all soul gems create an issue that is now being brought to more people's attention that has been identified and discussed as an issue over a year ago.

No, you're completely 100% missing the point.

A noob going to his first dungeon at level 10-14 uses the LFG tool to find a group to run it with. He's not a member of a guild to run dungeons with, he doesn't have more than a couple of people on his friends list because he's new to the game. He's got soul gems of his level that have dropped. Prior to the change to the LFG tool, he would be matched with people in the same level range as him, so his soul gems were fine.

After the change to the LFG tool he could matched with VR1-VR16 players, so he's SOL because he doesn't have any grand soul gems. He's brand new, and he can't afford to go out and buy grand soul gems. If he's not interested in PVP, he's not even going to know where he can get grand soul gems.

THAT is the issue - not what people who specifically choose to group with people well above their level do. When you make that choice it's on you. When the LFG tool makes that choice for you, it shouldn't be.

I'm not missing the point at all

The point you're making is that soul gems should have a different scaling that applies to both the player who holds the soul gem as well as scale to any other player in the event said player dies and needs to be rezzed.

Thats not how scaled items work.
Scaling works so that the player who has said item is scaled for that player.

In this example...everyone is doing a VR16 dungeon.
The items in each players inventory scale to the individual player
The other players items do the same

the soul gems...by rule are named and as such those names have ranks that coincide with a player level.
Its not possible to scale a soul gem without removing it and replacing it which if thats going to happen, then everyone would also need their gear replaced too. Unfortunately, scaling doesn't work that way

One possible solution is to allow soul gems to rez anyone but have a chance to fail, take longer and provide less life, mana, etc on a successful rez because of the soul gem ranks. OR....just buy grand soul gems

KewaG · November 2015

bunnytrix wrote: »

KewaG wrote: »

This problem could be easily remedied by simply buying a stack of Grand Soul gems. They're not that expensive, can res any level, and you'll eventually need them anyway. Also, there is a passive in Soul Magic that lets you fill soul gems automatically, as long as you have empty gems in your inventory. Don't sell your empty gems and use this passive while you quest/dungeon.

Why should low level players have to go and spend thousands on grand soul gems just to do LFG when they didn't have to 2 weeks ago? How do level 10 players fill grand soul gems ?

I didn't say you have to buy Grand Soul Gems, you also don't have to use the LFG tool, I was only saying a remedy for this issue is to buy (Filled Obviously) Grand Soul Gems before you use the LFG Tool. You know before using LFG that this is going to be an issue so why not prepare for it instead getting stressed about it afterwards.

Until it's fixed what options do you have? That's an unfortunate fact not me trolling or poking fun at any lowbies. Also, if you buy them from Guild Stores, they are not that expensive, when you shop around. If you buy them from merchants then you are obviously going to pay close to a 100 times more then guild stores. You can also offer trades or ask for favors from guild mates. My guilds are always willing to help out in a pinch or make fair trades.

Here are the options I can think of:
1) Don't use LFG Tool for dungeons until it's fixed. (Use Guild, Zone Chat to form groups)
2) Use the LFG Tool and purchase Grand Soul Gems. (Prepared for the worst)
3) Use LFG Tool to find group but before entering the dungeon, disband and reform the group so that it scales to your levels instead of battle levels. (May not Work)

I only try to make suggestions and not criticize. Take my advise or don't. It means nothing to me either way. And THIS is my last comment on this discussion for real this time.

UrQuan · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

Hmm, I was unaware that prior to the changes to the grouping tool a level 10 might end up grouped with a VR16 when queuing for a dungeon of his level. Please point me to examples of this happening before the update to the LFG tool. Because that's literally the entire point: when you're choosing the specific people in your group it's not an issue. When you're having your group chosen for you then it's an issue.

And what the hell are you talking about when you say you're not going to comment on the "rude remarks"? Where has anybody in this thread had any rude remarks?

There were and no limitations to someone grouping with another player prior to grouping tools enhancements where one player was outside of 10+ levels of another. Actually it was very common for people to power level friends in places like Fungal Grotto and other dungeons. Then to move on but the issue that you're looking at has nothing to do with a player level.

That is the whole point and why this change has nothing to do with the soul gem concern.

The concern you have as well as myself is that in order to rez another player, (regardless of either players level) the soul gem must be of level to rez the dead player.

A level 10 can rez a VR16 with a grand soul gem. So the grouping tools isn't creating an issue due to level variance.
The design and restrictions of all soul gems create an issue that is now being brought to more people's attention that has been identified and discussed as an issue over a year ago.

No, you're completely 100% missing the point.

A noob going to his first dungeon at level 10-14 uses the LFG tool to find a group to run it with. He's not a member of a guild to run dungeons with, he doesn't have more than a couple of people on his friends list because he's new to the game. He's got soul gems of his level that have dropped. Prior to the change to the LFG tool, he would be matched with people in the same level range as him, so his soul gems were fine.

After the change to the LFG tool he could matched with VR1-VR16 players, so he's SOL because he doesn't have any grand soul gems. He's brand new, and he can't afford to go out and buy grand soul gems. If he's not interested in PVP, he's not even going to know where he can get grand soul gems.

THAT is the issue - not what people who specifically choose to group with people well above their level do. When you make that choice it's on you. When the LFG tool makes that choice for you, it shouldn't be.

I'm not missing the point at all

The point you're making is that soul gems should have a different scaling that applies to both the player who holds the soul gem as well as scale to any other player in the event said player dies and needs to be rezzed.

No. That's not the point that I'm making at all. If you're not even going to bother reading the posts you're replying to, then there's clearly no point in even talking to you. The LFG tool now battle levels the player, his pots, and his food to VR16. It should do the same with the soul gems. How you think that's scaling it to someone else is beyond me, but the point is that everything is scaled to VR16.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Thats not how scaled items work.

Scaling everything in the exact same way isn't how scaled items work. Well OK then.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Scaling works so that the player who has said item is scaled for that player.

No, the items scale to the level that the character is scaled to. When my level 18 is battle-leveled to VR16 in a group dungeon by the LFG tool (and this is why it's about the LFG tool - because that's where the battle-leveling comes in), her pots and food are scaled to the level that a VR16 character would use - for the duration that I'm in the dungeon that means that even though my food and pots are level 15 or 10, they're scaled to VR15 and not to my character level.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In this example...everyone is doing a VR16 dungeon.
The items in each players inventory scale to the individual player

No they don't. They are battle leveled to be what a VR16 character would use, regardless of the level of the individual character.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The other players items do the same

the soul gems...by rule are named and as such those names have ranks that coincide with a player level.
Its not possible to scale a soul gem without removing it and replacing it which if thats going to happen, then everyone would also need their gear replaced too. Unfortunately, scaling doesn't work that way

Yes it does. It works exactly that way. My level 10 pots are named and have a specific name that coincides with a player level. That doesn't stop them from acting as if they were the differently named pots scaled to VR15 while I'm in the dungeon.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

One possible solution is to allow soul gems to rez anyone but have a chance to fail, take longer and provide less life, mana, etc on a successful rez because of the soul gem ranks. OR....just buy grand soul gems

No, the solution is to have them work exactly the same way that food and pots work in dungeons that battle-level you to VR16.

Muizer · November 2015

I'm sorry, but making demands in the forum is............

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

Hmm, I was unaware that prior to the changes to the grouping tool a level 10 might end up grouped with a VR16 when queuing for a dungeon of his level. Please point me to examples of this happening before the update to the LFG tool. Because that's literally the entire point: when you're choosing the specific people in your group it's not an issue. When you're having your group chosen for you then it's an issue.

And what the hell are you talking about when you say you're not going to comment on the "rude remarks"? Where has anybody in this thread had any rude remarks?

There were and no limitations to someone grouping with another player prior to grouping tools enhancements where one player was outside of 10+ levels of another. Actually it was very common for people to power level friends in places like Fungal Grotto and other dungeons. Then to move on but the issue that you're looking at has nothing to do with a player level.

That is the whole point and why this change has nothing to do with the soul gem concern.

The concern you have as well as myself is that in order to rez another player, (regardless of either players level) the soul gem must be of level to rez the dead player.

A level 10 can rez a VR16 with a grand soul gem. So the grouping tools isn't creating an issue due to level variance.
The design and restrictions of all soul gems create an issue that is now being brought to more people's attention that has been identified and discussed as an issue over a year ago.

No, you're completely 100% missing the point.

A noob going to his first dungeon at level 10-14 uses the LFG tool to find a group to run it with. He's not a member of a guild to run dungeons with, he doesn't have more than a couple of people on his friends list because he's new to the game. He's got soul gems of his level that have dropped. Prior to the change to the LFG tool, he would be matched with people in the same level range as him, so his soul gems were fine.

After the change to the LFG tool he could matched with VR1-VR16 players, so he's SOL because he doesn't have any grand soul gems. He's brand new, and he can't afford to go out and buy grand soul gems. If he's not interested in PVP, he's not even going to know where he can get grand soul gems.

THAT is the issue - not what people who specifically choose to group with people well above their level do. When you make that choice it's on you. When the LFG tool makes that choice for you, it shouldn't be.

I'm not missing the point at all

The point you're making is that soul gems should have a different scaling that applies to both the player who holds the soul gem as well as scale to any other player in the event said player dies and needs to be rezzed.

No. That's not the point that I'm making at all. If you're not even going to bother reading the posts you're replying to, then there's clearly no point in even talking to you. The LFG tool now battle levels the player, his pots, and his food to VR16. It should do the same with the soul gems. How you think that's scaling it to someone else is beyond me, but the point is that everything is scaled to VR16.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Thats not how scaled items work.

Scaling everything in the exact same way isn't how scaled items work. Well OK then.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Scaling works so that the player who has said item is scaled for that player.

No, the items scale to the level that the character is scaled to. When my level 18 is battle-leveled to VR16 in a group dungeon by the LFG tool (and this is why it's about the LFG tool - because that's where the battle-leveling comes in), her pots and food are scaled to the level that a VR16 character would use - for the duration that I'm in the dungeon that means that even though my food and pots are level 15 or 10, they're scaled to VR15 and not to my character level.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In this example...everyone is doing a VR16 dungeon.
The items in each players inventory scale to the individual player

No they don't. They are battle leveled to be what a VR16 character would use, regardless of the level of the individual character.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The other players items do the same

the soul gems...by rule are named and as such those names have ranks that coincide with a player level.
Its not possible to scale a soul gem without removing it and replacing it which if thats going to happen, then everyone would also need their gear replaced too. Unfortunately, scaling doesn't work that way

Yes it does. It works exactly that way. My level 10 pots are named and have a specific name that coincides with a player level. That doesn't stop them from acting as if they were the differently named pots scaled to VR15 while I'm in the dungeon.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

One possible solution is to allow soul gems to rez anyone but have a chance to fail, take longer and provide less life, mana, etc on a successful rez because of the soul gem ranks. OR....just buy grand soul gems

No, the solution is to have them work exactly the same way that food and pots work in dungeons that battle-level you to VR16.

Base context:

Soul Gem: work in tiers unlike food and potions. Soul gems will max out as specified at referenced level. Food and potions have reduced time and effects based. Soul gems can't work like food and potions because they are designed to be by level unlike food and potions that have reduced effects and time. Its way different....and as such its not the cause of battle leveling. When food and potions are battle leveled they are not removed and replaced by higher level items. The items are exactly the same...its how the effect applies which is an adjustment. You can't adjust a soul gem in an environment unless you completely redo how soul gems work because they specifically stop working in level tiers.

Part 1:
Scaling simply applies to the player (your player)
It does not apply to other players (players you're with)

Part 2:
Food, and items scale to the player (your player)
-It does not apply to other players (players you're with)

Part 3:
The items effects "scale" to the player based on what is equip, and the stats chosen on your player not other players.

Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

Its not going to make a soul gem become a grand soul gem.
Its not going to make food VR16 food
its not going to make a potion VR16 potion
It is going to produce an effect that scales....so the problem isn't scaling because everything on you works as scaled.

You should not receive an item to use on another player just because you are in a battle leveled environment unless ZOS changes how soul gems works all together. Then this bring up...its not a battle level issue but a soul gem issue that is causing a problem in battle leveled areas.

Ilsabet · November 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

Oh geez, the soul gem requirements scale too?

I mean I've got some grand soul gems I've stolen from the enchantment shop, but I'm not about to go find level 50 monsters to fill them up.

Whenever you get battle leveled you actually become that level. This is why only Grand Soul Gems ever worked in Cyrodiil.

If I had empty grand soul gems, could I go to Cyrodiil and use some random monsters to fill them?

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

Ilsabet wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

Oh geez, the soul gem requirements scale too?

I mean I've got some grand soul gems I've stolen from the enchantment shop, but I'm not about to go find level 50 monsters to fill them up.

Whenever you get battle leveled you actually become that level. This is why only Grand Soul Gems ever worked in Cyrodiil.

If I had empty grand soul gems, could I go to Cyrodiil and use some random monsters to fill them?

yes

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

UrQuan · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

You are, because you're dead wrong about essentially everything you've posted in this thread. You've come up with your own truly bizarre interpretation of how scaling works, which is internally inconsistent.

Look at this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

[
Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

The bold part of which completely contradicts your entire point. Yes, the game scales the actual items and produces an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 and using an item appropriate to your level. Which is exactly how soul gems should work in groups formed by the LFG tool. Somehow you've leaped to the conclusion that this is impossible with soul gems without physically replacing them with grand soul gems - with absolutely no evidence or logic behind your conclusion.

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

usmcjdking · November 2015

Guys, maybe you missed it...but this issue have been fixed. Soul Gems that are within the character's level range will work on EVERYONE. I.E. a level 25 player using common soul gems (20-29) can both resurrect himself and a V16 player when in scaled dungeon content.

Please close this thread.

UrQuan · November 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, maybe you missed it...but this issue have been fixed. Soul Gems that are within the character's level range will work on EVERYONE. I.E. a level 25 player using common soul gems (20-29) can both resurrect himself and a V16 player when in scaled dungeon content.

Please close this thread.

But... That can't be - according to @NewBlacksmurf it's impossible for ZOS to make soul gems scale like that! lol

See that's exactly how soul gems should work for groups formed/scaled/battle-leveled via the LFG tool, so it's great that they're now working that way.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

You are, because you're dead wrong about essentially everything you've posted in this thread. You've come up with your own truly bizarre interpretation of how scaling works, which is internally inconsistent.

Look at this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

[
Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

The bold part of which completely contradicts your entire point. Yes, the game scales the actual items and produces an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 and using an item appropriate to your level. Which is exactly how soul gems should work in groups formed by the LFG tool. Somehow you've leaped to the conclusion that this is impossible with soul gems without physically replacing them with grand soul gems - with absolutely no evidence or logic behind your conclusion.

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

Good sir.
No items you have are scaled but those items, or rather that gear isn't soul gems. Food isn't a soul gem and it also works different than gear scaling.
Scaling is t replacing an item. You're not being given a VR16 item in any situation.

Soul gems are specifically limited to character levels
Food and potions do not stop at a level and always work but the effectiveness and time scale based on character level outside of battle leveling.

It's different things...period

Now look at the comments regarding the answer to this thread

UrQuan · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

You are, because you're dead wrong about essentially everything you've posted in this thread. You've come up with your own truly bizarre interpretation of how scaling works, which is internally inconsistent.

Look at this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

[
Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

The bold part of which completely contradicts your entire point. Yes, the game scales the actual items and produces an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 and using an item appropriate to your level. Which is exactly how soul gems should work in groups formed by the LFG tool. Somehow you've leaped to the conclusion that this is impossible with soul gems without physically replacing them with grand soul gems - with absolutely no evidence or logic behind your conclusion.

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

Good sir.
No items you have are scaled but those items, or rather that gear isn't soul gems. Food isn't a soul gem and it also works different than gear scaling.
Scaling is t replacing an item. You're not being given a VR16 item in any situation.

Soul gems are specifically limited to character levels
Food and potions do not stop at a level and always work but the effectiveness and time scale based on character level outside of battle leveling.

It's different things...period

Now look at the comments regarding the answer to this thread

So you're not capable of reading? Look:

UrQuan wrote: »

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

And look:

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, maybe you missed it...but this issue have been fixed. Soul Gems that are within the character's level range will work on EVERYONE. I.E. a level 25 player using common soul gems (20-29) can both resurrect himself and a V16 player when in scaled dungeon content.

Please close this thread.

Hey, weird, it turns out that it now works exactly the way I said it could and should work! And exactly the way you said it was impossible for it to work (because somehow in your mind it would require replacing the existing soul gem in your inventory with a completely different one)! I mean, it's almost as if you were wrong about virtually everything you said in this thread, and you're completely incapable of admitting to being wrong!

But thanks for coming out.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

You are, because you're dead wrong about essentially everything you've posted in this thread. You've come up with your own truly bizarre interpretation of how scaling works, which is internally inconsistent.

Look at this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

[
Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

The bold part of which completely contradicts your entire point. Yes, the game scales the actual items and produces an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 and using an item appropriate to your level. Which is exactly how soul gems should work in groups formed by the LFG tool. Somehow you've leaped to the conclusion that this is impossible with soul gems without physically replacing them with grand soul gems - with absolutely no evidence or logic behind your conclusion.

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

Good sir.
No items you have are scaled but those items, or rather that gear isn't soul gems. Food isn't a soul gem and it also works different than gear scaling.
Scaling is t replacing an item. You're not being given a VR16 item in any situation.

Soul gems are specifically limited to character levels
Food and potions do not stop at a level and always work but the effectiveness and time scale based on character level outside of battle leveling.

It's different things...period

Now look at the comments regarding the answer to this thread

So you're not capable of reading? Look:

UrQuan wrote: »

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

And look:

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, maybe you missed it...but this issue have been fixed. Soul Gems that are within the character's level range will work on EVERYONE. I.E. a level 25 player using common soul gems (20-29) can both resurrect himself and a V16 player when in scaled dungeon content.

Please close this thread.

Hey, weird, it turns out that it now works exactly the way I said it could and should work! And exactly the way you said it was impossible for it to work (because somehow in your mind it would require replacing the existing soul gem in your inventory with a completely different one)! I mean, it's almost as if you were wrong about virtually everything you said in this thread, and you're completely incapable of admitting to being wrong!

But thanks for coming out.

First it's sad that you complained without checking how the game works

Second it's sad that you're arguing with me and suggesting that I said it can't work when I said ZOS has to change the rules for soul gems.

All in all...you waisted your time and mine and you don't read and comprehend well. I'm not sure of you research before interacting but you're not new to this game so...no clue what's going on

UrQuan · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

You are, because you're dead wrong about essentially everything you've posted in this thread. You've come up with your own truly bizarre interpretation of how scaling works, which is internally inconsistent.

Look at this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

[
Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

The bold part of which completely contradicts your entire point. Yes, the game scales the actual items and produces an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 and using an item appropriate to your level. Which is exactly how soul gems should work in groups formed by the LFG tool. Somehow you've leaped to the conclusion that this is impossible with soul gems without physically replacing them with grand soul gems - with absolutely no evidence or logic behind your conclusion.

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

Good sir.
No items you have are scaled but those items, or rather that gear isn't soul gems. Food isn't a soul gem and it also works different than gear scaling.
Scaling is t replacing an item. You're not being given a VR16 item in any situation.

Soul gems are specifically limited to character levels
Food and potions do not stop at a level and always work but the effectiveness and time scale based on character level outside of battle leveling.

It's different things...period

Now look at the comments regarding the answer to this thread

So you're not capable of reading? Look:

UrQuan wrote: »

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

And look:

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, maybe you missed it...but this issue have been fixed. Soul Gems that are within the character's level range will work on EVERYONE. I.E. a level 25 player using common soul gems (20-29) can both resurrect himself and a V16 player when in scaled dungeon content.

Please close this thread.

Hey, weird, it turns out that it now works exactly the way I said it could and should work! And exactly the way you said it was impossible for it to work (because somehow in your mind it would require replacing the existing soul gem in your inventory with a completely different one)! I mean, it's almost as if you were wrong about virtually everything you said in this thread, and you're completely incapable of admitting to being wrong!

But thanks for coming out.

First it's sad that you complained without checking how the game works

First it did work that way immediately after the Orsinium patch, and has since been updated.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Second it's sad that you're arguing with me and suggesting that I said it can't work when I said ZOS has to change the rules for soul gems.

Second it's sad that now you're pretending you didn't say this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Soul Gem: work in tiers unlike food and potions. Soul gems will max out as specified at referenced level. Food and potions have reduced time and effects based. Soul gems can't work like food and potions because they are designed to be by level unlike food and potions that have reduced effects and time. Its way different....and as such its not the cause of battle leveling. When food and potions are battle leveled they are not removed and replaced by higher level items. The items are exactly the same...its how the effect applies which is an adjustment. You can't adjust a soul gem in an environment unless you completely redo how soul gems work because they specifically stop working in level tiers.

And that you're pretending you weren't proven completely wrong. Soul gems now scale exactly the way I said they should and could. You claimed that they couldn't be adjusted in that environment without completely redoing how they work. Weird that they didn't completely redo how they work, and yet that they now do work in exactly the way I said that they should. Remember, you said:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Soul gems can't work like food and potions because they are designed to be by level unlike food and potions that have reduced effects and time. Its way different....and as such its not the cause of battle leveling. When food and potions are battle leveled they are not removed and replaced by higher level items. The items are exactly the same...its how the effect applies which is an adjustment. You can't adjust a soul gem in an environment unless you completely redo how soul gems work because they specifically stop working in level tiers.

You were and are wrong. And you can't admit it.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@UrQuan

I completely agree that souls gems should scale to allow low level players to be able to revive both themselves and others. Could this be exploited? Not in any serious way since you would still need soul gems within your current level range.

As for NBS, you're wasting your time there.

I guess I am waiting my time trying to explain why its not a battle level issue.

Happy gaming

You are, because you're dead wrong about essentially everything you've posted in this thread. You've come up with your own truly bizarre interpretation of how scaling works, which is internally inconsistent.

Look at this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

[
Conclusion:
-When someone is battle leveled, the game does not change an item and give the player a VR16 item. The game scales the actual items on your player and product an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 with said gear and stats.

The bold part of which completely contradicts your entire point. Yes, the game scales the actual items and produces an effect based on what would occur if you were VR16 and using an item appropriate to your level. Which is exactly how soul gems should work in groups formed by the LFG tool. Somehow you've leaped to the conclusion that this is impossible with soul gems without physically replacing them with grand soul gems - with absolutely no evidence or logic behind your conclusion.

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

Good sir.
No items you have are scaled but those items, or rather that gear isn't soul gems. Food isn't a soul gem and it also works different than gear scaling.
Scaling is t replacing an item. You're not being given a VR16 item in any situation.

Soul gems are specifically limited to character levels
Food and potions do not stop at a level and always work but the effectiveness and time scale based on character level outside of battle leveling.

It's different things...period

Now look at the comments regarding the answer to this thread

So you're not capable of reading? Look:

UrQuan wrote: »

Soul gems work based on level. Potions and food work based on level. It's a parameter. When scaling all you have to do is tell it to ignore that parameter. It may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the soul gem (ignore the parameter to require characters to be level X or below) or it may be that the scaling should change a parameter on the characters (ignore the parameter to require soul gems to be of level X or above). Either way, it wouldn't somehow require the soul gems to be actually replaced. It should actually be much easier to scale soul gems than to scale pots or food.

And look:

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, maybe you missed it...but this issue have been fixed. Soul Gems that are within the character's level range will work on EVERYONE. I.E. a level 25 player using common soul gems (20-29) can both resurrect himself and a V16 player when in scaled dungeon content.

Please close this thread.

Hey, weird, it turns out that it now works exactly the way I said it could and should work! And exactly the way you said it was impossible for it to work (because somehow in your mind it would require replacing the existing soul gem in your inventory with a completely different one)! I mean, it's almost as if you were wrong about virtually everything you said in this thread, and you're completely incapable of admitting to being wrong!

But thanks for coming out.

First it's sad that you complained without checking how the game works

First it did work that way immediately after the Orsinium patch, and has since been updated.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Second it's sad that you're arguing with me and suggesting that I said it can't work when I said ZOS has to change the rules for soul gems.

Second it's sad that now you're pretending you didn't say this:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Soul Gem: work in tiers unlike food and potions. Soul gems will max out as specified at referenced level. Food and potions have reduced time and effects based. Soul gems can't work like food and potions because they are designed to be by level unlike food and potions that have reduced effects and time. Its way different....and as such its not the cause of battle leveling. When food and potions are battle leveled they are not removed and replaced by higher level items. The items are exactly the same...its how the effect applies which is an adjustment. You can't adjust a soul gem in an environment unless you completely redo how soul gems work because they specifically stop working in level tiers.

And that you're pretending you weren't proven completely wrong. Soul gems now scale exactly the way I said they should and could. You claimed that they couldn't be adjusted in that environment without completely redoing how they work. Weird that they didn't completely redo how they work, and yet that they now do work in exactly the way I said that they should. Remember, you said:

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Soul gems can't work like food and potions because they are designed to be by level unlike food and potions that have reduced effects and time. Its way different....and as such its not the cause of battle leveling. When food and potions are battle leveled they are not removed and replaced by higher level items. The items are exactly the same...its how the effect applies which is an adjustment. You can't adjust a soul gem in an environment unless you completely redo how soul gems work because they specifically stop working in level tiers.

You were and are wrong. And you can't admit it.

No I wasn't wrong.
I specifically wrote soul gems can't work like food and potions which is 100% correct. I also stated ZOS would have to change how soul gems work for this to happen which is also 100% correct.

What's wrong is I should've tested it on Xbox one and first responded that it's not an issue but why in the world are you arguing about this.
Are you that stuck on proving ppl wrong in the forums?
Grow up