LFG Tool on Normal Dungeons and Soul Gems needs IMMEDIATE FIX ACTION

usmcjdking

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I've been playing some challenging content by running normal dungeons with a bunch of lowbies and there is one major GLARING issue - the inability to resurrect using soul gems. Most of the players who enter the normal queue will NOT have grand soul gems thus they can NOT resurrect themselves or other players.

This is creating an unreasonable amount of stress on a long overdue mechanic which is FINALLY working but there are still *** in the armor that need to be addressed.

Troneon

They can buy them in the crown store? Working as intended....

Ilsabet

Oh geez, the soul gem requirements scale too?

I mean I've got some grand soul gems I've stolen from the enchantment shop, but I'm not about to go find level 50 monsters to fill them up.

Troneon

Ilsabet wrote: »

Oh geez, the soul gem requirements scale too?

I mean I've got some grand soul gems I've stolen from the enchantment shop, but I'm not about to go find level 50 monsters to fill them up.

As a healer, the more my groups dies, the more my empty gems fill up again. Think I have a few stacks of 200 gems by now....I always just give them out to group at start of dungeon a long with Health food, if they don't have at least 15k health I am not even going to heal them...because they will just get one shot all the time...so take my free gems and health food or im not healing you. :P

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Ritualist
Increases Resurrection speed by 20%. Affected allies resurrected with 50% more Health. 50% chance to gain a soul gem upon successful resurrection.

Then add this....

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Field+Physician
Reduces damage received while resurrecting another player by 15%

Now your healer should never die = group should never die, just buff self/group up fully, start rezzing, take less damage and get a free soul gem Continue healing...

usmcjdking

It works sometimes, but not all of the time. It seems to be tied directly to whether your party is teleported or not. I'm not sure, will submit bug report once I'm out of BC with these 3 level 18s lol.

Eleusian

It's been this way in Cyrrodil also needs fixed.

NewBlacksmurf

I don't follow...I do understand that a lower soul gem can't revive a higher character but what does that have to do with the LFG tool?

I think the issue is that perhaps soul gems "maybe" should Rez any level due to this change and the Cyrodil battle level and now the Orsinium scaling so the issue is the soul gems not the LFG tool.

Just ask ZOS to allow one soul gem regardless of level. I can't even see that hurting anything

UrQuan

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't follow...I do understand that a lower soul gem can't revive a higher character but what does that have to do with the LFG tool?

I think the issue is that perhaps soul gems "maybe" should Rez any level due to this change and the Cyrodil battle level and now the Orsinium scaling so the issue is the soul gems not the LFG tool.

Just ask ZOS to allow one soul gem regardless of level. I can't even see that hurting anything

It's because the LFG tool now scales everything to VR16, and battle-levels everyone to VR16, so you could end up with a level 10 in a group with 3 VR16s. If the soul gems carried by that level 10 aren't working on the VR16s then IMO the battle leveling still needs tweaking. I mean, it works to battle level food that you eat and potions that you drink, so it should battle level the soul gems that you use as well.

tengri

That's just another reason why I despise the new lfg tool and this crap forced battle-leveling.

I dont want to end up in a group with a couple of noobs who dont have any skills.
And I dont mean the players themselves, I mean their actual skills not leveled or even not available at all because they lack free points and general character progression.
Beyond useless.

Yattaq

tengri wrote: »

That's just another reason why I despise the new lfg tool and this crap forced battle-leveling.

I dont want to end up in a group with a couple of noobs who dont have any skills.
And I dont mean the players themselves, I mean their actual skills not leveled or even not available at all because they lack free points and general character progression.
Beyond useless.

I've just been using LFG for normal pledges every day and getting matched usually with 2 or 3 people who are level appropriate for the dungeon (today was Banished Cells so in the teens). Every run has been successful. Just because the run takes 5-10 extra minutes doesn't make the tool useless. I saved 5 minutes of spamming zone chat easily.

UltimaJoe777

Ilsabet wrote: »

Oh geez, the soul gem requirements scale too?

I mean I've got some grand soul gems I've stolen from the enchantment shop, but I'm not about to go find level 50 monsters to fill them up.

Whenever you get battle leveled you actually become that level. This is why only Grand Soul Gems ever worked in Cyrodiil.

bunnytrix

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Any word on a fix for this or even if it will be fixed?

You can't seriously expect level 10/11/12/13 etc players using LFG to have to go and spend 1000's gold on grand soul gems just to use the grouping tool. What about new players that do not have a high level alt to supply them ?

Did not even know this until I ran Banished Cells on my lvl 17 alt using LFG...with tons of at level gems in my bag, yet unable to rez myself or anyone else. Made it very painful for everyone involved as none of us knew we could not use our gems.
Please fix to allow low levels to use their at level gems in a LFG dungeon.

NewBlacksmurf

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't follow...I do understand that a lower soul gem can't revive a higher character but what does that have to do with the LFG tool?

I think the issue is that perhaps soul gems "maybe" should Rez any level due to this change and the Cyrodil battle level and now the Orsinium scaling so the issue is the soul gems not the LFG tool.

Just ask ZOS to allow one soul gem regardless of level. I can't even see that hurting anything

It's because the LFG tool now scales everything to VR16, and battle-levels everyone to VR16, so you could end up with a level 10 in a group with 3 VR16s. If the soul gems carried by that level 10 aren't working on the VR16s then IMO the battle leveling still needs tweaking. I mean, it works to battle level food that you eat and potions that you drink, so it should battle level the soul gems that you use as well.

I understand how the system works...what I don't understand is why people feel that battle leveling needs work due to a Soul Gem concern. Are you all not saying soul gems should work differently ?

Basically...soul gems should rez anyone regardless of level. The amount of life, magic and stamina after the rez should coincide with the soul gem level compared to the character level.

This is a soul gem problem that existed long before battle leveling but one that has not been addressed by ZOS

OR
IMAGINE THIS>....

ALLOW SOUL GEM TO WORK THE SAME ALWAYS...
If I die I use my soul gem to rez but in some crazy demon inspired craze the devs have decided that my soul gems no longer work in boss fights in my inventory.

Pick one way and stick to it...problem solved

bunnytrix

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't follow...I do understand that a lower soul gem can't revive a higher character but what does that have to do with the LFG tool?

I think the issue is that perhaps soul gems "maybe" should Rez any level due to this change and the Cyrodil battle level and now the Orsinium scaling so the issue is the soul gems not the LFG tool.

Just ask ZOS to allow one soul gem regardless of level. I can't even see that hurting anything

It's because the LFG tool now scales everything to VR16, and battle-levels everyone to VR16, so you could end up with a level 10 in a group with 3 VR16s. If the soul gems carried by that level 10 aren't working on the VR16s then IMO the battle leveling still needs tweaking. I mean, it works to battle level food that you eat and potions that you drink, so it should battle level the soul gems that you use as well.

I understand how the system works...what I don't understand is why people feel that battle leveling needs work due to a Soul Gem concern. Are you all not saying soul gems should work differently ?

Basically...soul gems should rez anyone regardless of level. The amount of life, magic and stamina after the rez should coincide with the soul gem level compared to the character level.

This is a soul gem problem that existed long before battle leveling but one that has not been addressed by ZOS

OR
IMAGINE THIS>....

ALLOW SOUL GEM TO WORK THE SAME ALWAYS...
If I die I use my soul gem to rez but in some crazy demon inspired craze the devs have decided that my soul gems no longer work in boss fights in my inventory.

Pick one way and stick to it...problem solved

Absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you actually bother to read other people's comments? Just because you do not have this problem does not mean there is no problem.

Low level players using the LFG tool can not use their at level soul gems to rez themselves or anyone else in a dungeon. At the moment they can only use grand soul gems for any kind of rez...how many low level players carry grand soul gems around or want to spend 1000's to acquire some ?

NewBlacksmurf

bunnytrix wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't follow...I do understand that a lower soul gem can't revive a higher character but what does that have to do with the LFG tool?

I think the issue is that perhaps soul gems "maybe" should Rez any level due to this change and the Cyrodil battle level and now the Orsinium scaling so the issue is the soul gems not the LFG tool.

Just ask ZOS to allow one soul gem regardless of level. I can't even see that hurting anything

It's because the LFG tool now scales everything to VR16, and battle-levels everyone to VR16, so you could end up with a level 10 in a group with 3 VR16s. If the soul gems carried by that level 10 aren't working on the VR16s then IMO the battle leveling still needs tweaking. I mean, it works to battle level food that you eat and potions that you drink, so it should battle level the soul gems that you use as well.

I understand how the system works...what I don't understand is why people feel that battle leveling needs work due to a Soul Gem concern. Are you all not saying soul gems should work differently ?

Basically...soul gems should rez anyone regardless of level. The amount of life, magic and stamina after the rez should coincide with the soul gem level compared to the character level.

This is a soul gem problem that existed long before battle leveling but one that has not been addressed by ZOS

OR
IMAGINE THIS>....

ALLOW SOUL GEM TO WORK THE SAME ALWAYS...
If I die I use my soul gem to rez but in some crazy demon inspired craze the devs have decided that my soul gems no longer work in boss fights in my inventory.

Pick one way and stick to it...problem solved

Absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you actually bother to read other people's comments? Just because you do not have this problem does not mean there is no problem.

Low level players using the LFG tool can not use their at level soul gems to rez themselves or anyone else in a dungeon. At the moment they can only use grand soul gems for any kind of rez...how many low level players carry grand soul gems around or want to spend 1000's to acquire some ?

I read this thread a few times...not just your comments.

Its also not a situation where my response is due to not having the experience others are having. We all are playing the same game.

What I'm saying is this is not a grouping tool or a battle level issue. I do agree that the way soul gems work is an issue but I'm pointing out that it has nothing to do with this situation. Soul gems have always had this issue, and I'm suggesting that it may have been raised to many now by recent changes but its always been there.

as such - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231491/zos-11-17-soul-gems-suggestions-attempt-to-offer-improvements-without-hurting-the-game-design#latest

Cherryblossom

Troneon wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

Oh geez, the soul gem requirements scale too?

I mean I've got some grand soul gems I've stolen from the enchantment shop, but I'm not about to go find level 50 monsters to fill them up.

As a healer, the more my groups dies, the more my empty gems fill up again. Think I have a few stacks of 200 gems by now....I always just give them out to group at start of dungeon a long with Health food, if they don't have at least 15k health I am not even going to heal them...because they will just get one shot all the time...so take my free gems and health food or im not healing you. :P

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Ritualist
Increases Resurrection speed by 20%. Affected allies resurrected with 50% more Health. 50% chance to gain a soul gem upon successful resurrection.

Then add this....

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Field+Physician
Reduces damage received while resurrecting another player by 15%

Now your healer should never die = group should never die, just buff self/group up fully, start rezzing, take less damage and get a free soul gem Continue healing...

I can only assume you have never healed! If you had healed you would know that you have no control over who you heal!

bunnytrix

@NewBlacksmurf

Ummm..ok..still no idea what you are talking about but whatever, you just carry on jumping into every thread to derail it.

It is absolutely both a grouping tool and a battle level issue. Before the grouping tool was "fixed" to its' present state, a low level player using lfg could go to a dungeon and use their at level soul gems to rez. Now they can't. So either the soul gems also need to be battle levelled just like the food is, or a little tweak is needed to allow low levels to use their soul gems without having to go farm max level ones.

NewBlacksmurf

bunnytrix wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

Ummm..ok..still no idea what you are talking about but whatever, you just carry on jumping into every thread to derail it.

It is absolutely both a grouping tool and a battle level issue. Before the grouping tool was "fixed" to its' present state, a low level player using lfg could go to a dungeon and use their at level soul gems to rez. Now they can't. So either the soul gems also need to be battle levelled just like the food is, or a little tweak is needed to allow low levels to use their soul gems without having to go farm max level ones.

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way. Also please refrain from suggesting that I'm derailing this topic.

Food buffs are very different from soul gems.
Also the reality that ZOS has provided opportunities to avoid what's being described as the issue in the crown store.

Potions would be a better comparison to how the preferred soul gem could possibly be resolved but then it creates an issue with having soul gems, filling them, obtaining them, and selling them.

If there was an adjustment it has to come with penalties so I created a thread specific to the soul gem issue that really seems to be newly found for some but one that has existed since closed PC beta.

Devalue of rank of items isn't a way to fix or address this concern. As this reads...the topic goes along as due to changes...soul gems is now an issue. Which I disagree with.

I do agree that ZOS' soul gem design needs to be addressed

Khaos_Bane

tengri wrote: »

That's just another reason why I despise the new lfg tool and this crap forced battle-leveling.

I dont want to end up in a group with a couple of noobs who dont have any skills.
And I dont mean the players themselves, I mean their actual skills not leveled or even not available at all because they lack free points and general character progression.
Beyond useless.

I am a healer and think the battle leveling has been pretty well done. Is there a difference in DPS? Yeah. I there a difference in skill? Sometimes. Is it more difficult healing ? Sometimes.

Overall the battle leveling has been fantastic. Lower level characters can actually enjoy dungeon content now, and higher level characters won't have problems finding people for normal instance runs.

Qizax

I agree with the OP 100%, the mechanic is an oversight and really will absolutely kill the entire idea of Battle Leveling over time. How did this not pop out of testing on the test server? (I should not throw stones as I am not on the PST myself, but still).

This mechanic needs to be fixed immediately or all the (very welcome) tweaks to the LFG tool are for naught. Over time it will be an abject failure.

Q

UrQuan

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

Miszou

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Overall the battle leveling has been fantastic. Lower level characters can actually enjoy dungeon content now, and higher level characters won't have problems finding people for normal instance runs.

Overall, I'll agree with you.

Certain dungeons with certain groups can just be brutal for a bunch of noobs that just got battle-levelled beyond their abilities. But when it works, it works really well.

Of all the dungeons I've done so far (I'm currently level 31 tank), I've only failed to complete one, because the group just wasn't up to the to the final boss and people started leaving. Went back the next day and finished it with a different group, so no big deal.

It's definitely more challenging than running a level-appropriate dungeon, but it's not so hard as to be impossible.

NewBlacksmurf

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

KewaG

This problem could be easily remedied by simply buying a stack of Grand Soul gems. They're not that expensive, can res any level, and you'll eventually need them anyway. Also, there is a passive in Soul Magic that lets you fill soul gems automatically, as long as you have empty gems in your inventory. Don't sell your empty gems and use this passive while you quest/dungeon.

usmcjdking

Guys, this seems to have been addressed.

I have no had this issue for about a week now.

KewaG

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, this seems to have been addressed.

I have no had this issue for about a week now.

Apologies, saw it pop back up in the discussions so I commented. This is the last one from me.

UrQuan

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

Hmm, I was unaware that prior to the changes to the grouping tool a level 10 might end up grouped with a VR16 when queuing for a dungeon of his level. Please point me to examples of this happening before the update to the LFG tool. Because that's literally the entire point: when you're choosing the specific people in your group it's not an issue. When you're having your group chosen for you then it's an issue.

And what the hell are you talking about when you say you're not going to comment on the "rude remarks"? Where has anybody in this thread had any rude remarks?

bunnytrix

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, this seems to have been addressed.

I have no had this issue for about a week now.

It has not been addressed, had this issue yesterday doing an LFG run, 2 level 18s, a 19 and a 17, no one had grand soul gems so no one could rez.

bunnytrix

KewaG wrote: »

This problem could be easily remedied by simply buying a stack of Grand Soul gems. They're not that expensive, can res any level, and you'll eventually need them anyway. Also, there is a passive in Soul Magic that lets you fill soul gems automatically, as long as you have empty gems in your inventory. Don't sell your empty gems and use this passive while you quest/dungeon.

Why should low level players have to go and spend thousands on grand soul gems just to do LFG when they didn't have to 2 weeks ago? How do level 10 players fill grand soul gems ?

UrQuan

usmcjdking wrote: »

Guys, this seems to have been addressed.

I have no had this issue for about a week now.

Has it been addressed? I didn't notice anything in the patch notes, but I also haven't been in a situation to check to see how it works now...

NewBlacksmurf

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's an issue for the entire game but it's not specific to grouping tools changes in any way.

It is absolutely related to the changes in the grouping tools, because the way the tool used to work is that it would find you people in the same level range as you, so whichever soul gems you were using at your own level should work to resurrect the other people in your group. Now that the grouping tool battle-levels everyone to VR16 and you could end up in a group with a level 10 and a VR16, the soul gems that the level 10 are using have a good chance of not being helpful. The simple solution is to apply the battle leveling to soul gems while in a group formed by the group finder. While you're in that VR16-scaled dungeon, let all soul gems function as if they were grand soul gems.

So why is this specific to the grouping tools instead of something that should always happen? When you form groups via invites (whether it is for group dungeons, questing as a group, doing PVP, whatever) you have control over what level players you group with, so you can equip yourself accordingly. Maybe you want to res some people in PVP, so you're OK with shelling out some coin on a bunch of grand soul gems, even though you only need common to res yourself. Maybe you're a noob doing your first group dungeon, and you can't afford any soul gems other than the ones you picked up, so you can't.

I have to disagree as the issue being described existed prior to any changes and even prior to Craglorn.

The solution you're suggesting offers you and others a solution but it breaks the economy and merchant values.
I'm not going to comment to the rude remarks but just understand that I've been around since closed BETA on PC...and still play PC PTS as well as on Xbox one.

Its an issue but its not an issue all of a sudden due to any changes.

Hmm, I was unaware that prior to the changes to the grouping tool a level 10 might end up grouped with a VR16 when queuing for a dungeon of his level. Please point me to examples of this happening before the update to the LFG tool. Because that's literally the entire point: when you're choosing the specific people in your group it's not an issue. When you're having your group chosen for you then it's an issue.

And what the hell are you talking about when you say you're not going to comment on the "rude remarks"? Where has anybody in this thread had any rude remarks?

There were and no limitations to someone grouping with another player prior to grouping tools enhancements where one player was outside of 10+ levels of another. Actually it was very common for people to power level friends in places like Fungal Grotto and other dungeons. Then to move on but the issue that you're looking at has nothing to do with a player level.

That is the whole point and why this change has nothing to do with the soul gem concern.

The concern you have as well as myself is that in order to rez another player, (regardless of either players level) the soul gem must be of level to rez the dead player.

A level 10 can rez a VR16 with a grand soul gem. So the grouping tools isn't creating an issue due to level variance.
The design and restrictions of all soul gems create an issue that is now being brought to more people's attention that has been identified and discussed as an issue over a year ago.

To be more specific...you or anyone can go buy grand soul gems, crown soul gems and can rez anyone.
The problem in Grouping Tools isn't a level difference that is limiting rez...its the soul gem as stated many times by me above. Another idea is because some items do scale, its interpreted that soul gems should as well but in context the soul gems still rez the dead player, they just keep the same rules when rezzing another player of different level range. A potion or food in a scaled environment does not level for another character or player. it scales to the player who has it in their inventory...thats why its not a scaling issue.


Rude = name calling or anytime some refers to another player as a noob, especially when that player being referred to has been active longer than the one name calling.