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Discussion to make other traits as desirable as Divines or Infused

Fat_Cat45
Fat_Cat45
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At the moment divines or infused are the go-to trait, with divines being the most popular now. Other traits should be buffed to provide meaningful choices which can compete with divines. For weapons, you will see nirnhoned for magicka, precise, or sharpened. There needs to be a change to make all other traits just as effective as those select few.

I propose the following changes to the traits.

(the % values go by item quality: white / green / blue / purple / gold).

Armor Traits
Sturdy: Copy the effect of the current Impenetrable, while also making the item indestructible to avoid repair fees.

Impenetrable: Increases total physical resist by 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5% / 3%. With so many champion points revolving around resisting elemental and magic damage, we need an alternative to gain physical resist besides the Armor Focus champion point stars.

Reinforced: Increase the value by 25% of the current amount. This may produce a result similar to divines on small pieces and infused on large pieces. Such as the new impenetrable on small pieces and the new buffed reinforced on large pieces.

Training: Good how it is, serves a good purpose.

Well-Fitted: Reduce sprint cost and increase sprint speed by 0.5% / 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5%. I have no good idea on how to improve this trait besides adding move speed to sprint. If anyone thinks of a good way, let me know and I could edit it in as the best option.

Exploration: Increase the chance of finding valuable items by 1% / 2% / 3% / 4% / 5% and increase the amount of gold from all sources by 2% / 4% / 6% / 8% / 10%. Think of the "magic find " stat from Diablo 2. You sacrifice combat potential to farm items with increased drop rates.

Nirnhoned: Good how it is for armors.

Divines: Leave it as is, but buff other traits instead.

Infused: Good how it is.

Weapon Traits

Nirnhoned: Remove the spell resistance. Such a strong offensive trait should not provide such an insane amount of spell resistance as well.

Charged: The secondary effect of the weapon enchantment will always proc with the enchantment, and are 100% stronger. Such as always applying burning on a fire enchantment, always applying defile on a disease enchantment, and so on. This trait is hard to think of a solution for, ran out of ideas here too.

Infused: Increase enchantment effect by 50% / 55% / 60% / 65% / 70%. It is an interesting trait, but it needs to be stronger. It would greatly benefit unique enchantments such as Master or Maelstrom in order to compensate for the loss of sharpened or precise.

Training: Good how it is.

Precise: Good how it is.

Sharpened: Good how it is.

Defending: Also reduce the cost of blocking by 1% / 2% / 3% / 4% / 5%.

Powered: Increase the base damage of the weapon by 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5% / 3%.

Weighted: Increase light and heavy attack damage by 1% / 2% / 3% / 4% / 5%. Also keep the attack speed.

All the % values are referring to one-handed weapons, so the values would be doubled for two-handed weapons.

Anyone else got ideas on how to bring unpopular traits to a viable position? I feel like weapon traits for enchantments were hard to think of. If anyone has other great ideas for the lesser used traits, and are much more plausible than my suggestions then I'll edit them in as well.

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Other popular suggested changes to traits

I'll try to pick the most liked ones to avoid clutter

Weapon Traits

Training: Provide an XP buff when at max level, or possibly before it too.

Weighted: Much higher % attack speed

Infused, Powered, Charged: Merge them together and combine effects, thus making it a more powerful trait as well as opening a slot to a brand new trait idea.

Armor Traits

Well-Fitted: Dodge roll reduction, sneak cost reduction, or overall movespeed buff instead of only sprinting.

Exploration: Change the xp earned to include all sources, or help with crafting and harvesting nodes.

Sturdy: Relate it to pvp. CC break cost reduction, resource regen, etc.
  • Fat_Cat45
    Fat_Cat45
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    Edited by Fat_Cat45 on November 13, 2015 2:11AM
  • SemiD4rkness
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    Love the idea for exploration trait. Reminds me of some older games ive played where you had to have a farming set and a fighting set.
  • ZOS_RichLambert
    ZOS_RichLambert
    Game Director
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  • MrDerrikk
    MrDerrikk
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    Fat_Cat45 wrote: »
    Well-Fitted: Reduce sprint cost and increase sprint speed by 0.5% / 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5%. I have no good idea on how to improve this trait besides adding move speed to sprint.

    I can see this as being really useful. However, adding another easy way of increasing movement speed would increase the need to buff the movement speed given by the Windrunning passive. 2% really is insignificant overall, make it at least 5%
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  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    I am not in favor of nerfing NIrnhoned in that way. Removing the spell resistance isn't going to make anyone less likely to use it. The only thing that nerf will do it annoy them.

    Edited by timidobserver on November 13, 2015 2:56AM
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  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    /lurk

    removed all traits except divines. fixed the loot problem.
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  • AFrostWolf
    AFrostWolf
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    Yes. I don't have any ideas of my own but I love these suggestions.
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    Don't forget reforging bad traits @ZOS_RichLambert . Remember, they have that in Diablo as well!
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    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    I think the only thing worth being careful of @Fat_Cat45 is that the meta would shift around your buffed traits and people would still just want a single trait for the vast majority of things.

    I do want buffs, but if the traits got buffs in lieu of the loot system being more rewarding (guaranteed wanted trait) or in lieu of trait changes, then I think that the traits buffs would be a net bad thing for the game and players.
    Edited by Personofsecrets on November 13, 2015 3:55AM
    Rest in Peace:
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    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    And don't get me wrong, I like most of your changes Fat_cat, but making suggestions to the developers is like letting the genie out of the bottle as we don't know the direction that our suggestions will lead with them. For instance we are getting a DK revamp at some point and I am very anxious that the developers are going to change my favorite passives in ways that would invalidate my play style. They are passives that make the DK strong, but I don't trust the developers to leave them alone and fix the problematic stuff.
    Edited by Personofsecrets on November 13, 2015 3:24AM
    Rest in Peace:
    The Dragonknight
    2014-2025

    This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
    lolo_01b16_ESO
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    Fat_Cat45 wrote: »
    Infused: Increase enchantment effect by 50% / 55% / 60% / 65% / 70%. It is an interest enchantment, but it needs to be stronger. It would greatly benefit unique enchantments.
    I see problems with that trait and master / maelstrom weapons. Infused is allready the top choice for some weapons.
    But your other ideas look very good.
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    Instant face palm every time I pick up something sturdy or well fitted....
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  • Komma
    Komma
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    Just make them not stack with each other.
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  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    I love the idea of well-fitted improving movement speed.

    A+ idea OP


    And like every other person in this game wants, we could really use a way to "reforge" traits.
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  • Ashtaris
    Ashtaris
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    Instant face palm every time I pick up something sturdy or well fitted....

    Or Training and Exploration, especially for my V16 characters. It would nice if those traits never dropped for anything higher than V10.

    Edited by Ashtaris on November 13, 2015 2:54PM
  • Fat_Cat45
    Fat_Cat45
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    Fat_Cat45 wrote: »
    Infused: Increase enchantment effect by 50% / 55% / 60% / 65% / 70%. It is an interest enchantment, but it needs to be stronger. It would greatly benefit unique enchantments.
    I see problems with that trait and master / maelstrom weapons. Infused is allready the top choice for some weapons.
    But your other ideas look very good.

    I ran out of ideas on this one since there are 3 traits for weapon enchantments. If I see one I like or think of one i'll edit it in
  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    That's really great stuff @Fat_Cat45 !
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  • dem0n1k
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    I use impenetrable & reinforced a lot on my armour.

    Impenetrable is currently critical resistance... with everybody running high crit builds.. surely you'd want some critical resistance?

    Increasing reinforced by 25% seems like total overkill. My DK already has a physical resistance around 22k with reinforced heavy armour!

    I agree that sturdy & well-fitted are too under-powered to bother with. The rest seem to serve their purposes.

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  • Fat_Cat45
    Fat_Cat45
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    /lurk
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    Ashtaris wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    Instant face palm every time I pick up something sturdy or well fitted....

    Or Training and Exploration, especially for my V16 characters. It would nice if those traits never dropped for anything lower than V10.
    The problem with training is that is serves a very specific purpose. Help raise your skill levels faster. It doesn't necessarily need a viable end-game function. Although there should no longer be training trait on items from Maelstorm, DSA, or other end-game sources
    Love the idea for exploration trait. Reminds me of some older games ive played where you had to have a farming set and a fighting set.
    Just imagine all 12 players in a trials group swapping to exploration gear right before engaging the final boss.
    Edited by Fat_Cat45 on November 13, 2015 4:01AM
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    /lurk

    YES HE LURKED!!

    Buff precise please <3

    Personally i would like to see revamp's for these Weapon enchants:

    Weighted
    Training
    Charged
    Powered


    All these traits are sort of unique but however get out classed.

    Weighted- i would just flat out buff. The % is very low. It would be a neat idea if it could speed up skill's with a channel animation (this is just an idea :) ) However i think the % should be around 25%.

    Training- A great trait for leveling, however i'd like it to have a little something extra. Once maxed level for the weapon has been achieved the trait evolve's into "Master" granting X'% to maybe your weapon passive's?

    Charged- Increasing the charges is useful, however now worthless now that soul gem's are so abundant. Why not just remove the soul gem cost in general. Making it a gold saver. Not something people would want to max damage but convenient.

    Powered- This is a good trait if you know how to use it correctly, however you will drain your charges faster with this i believe. For me to really take this trait i would want a little extra something... maybe a movement speed buff on activation of enchant? Something like 5-10%? 5% Damage mitigation on activation?
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    I'm just brain storming.

    Glad to see Rich gave this topic a look see. At the moment all you see that is wanted is sharpened/infused/precise. So i completely agree.

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    @Fat_Cat45

    Something i thought about for well-fitted. Let the trait give you an increase or decrease on stealth detection. Since you are wearing something "Well-fitted" surely you can hear better since you have a snug fit or can be quieter moving around.

    This could benefit players who want to be more stealthy in light or heavy Armour by taking this trait. This would also give incentive for players to run this to be very very hard to detect.

    Also, i know there is already sneak speed bonus's but you could give the trait a stealth speed bonus. Something small maybe 2.15% per piece. Totaling at 15% increased movement speed in stealth with 7 pieces.

    If i had to pick any of the options above, i would go for the sneak speed. However they are all valid.

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    @ZOS_RichLambert Please talk to the team about a stealth speed mundus. That would be amazing. Or just implement what i've said above :D
    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on November 13, 2015 4:09AM
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  • MrDerrikk
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    Why don't they just bring back the original purpose of Weighted - to speed up all abilities - but make it an incredibly limited amount and so that only the trait can give this buff (maybe a passive in CP as well)
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  • Baconlad
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    I would love it if they made a "softcap" for traits...i hate that certain traits you can have four of and be good. I want options damnit! But seriously for pvp. I used to have well fitted on everything with hawks eye set, and I loved it, you could sprint forever! Would be awesome if they boosted run speed for it as well, but it would also be cool if they gave everything a four stack limit, capping effectiveness. So we could have multiple traits depending on our build, a reforging thing would be cool too, getting that perfect heavy monster helm I a *** trait is VERY disheartening
  • Fat_Cat45
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    MrDerrikk wrote: »
    Fat_Cat45 wrote: »
    Well-Fitted: Reduce sprint cost and increase sprint speed by 0.5% / 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5%. I have no good idea on how to improve this trait besides adding move speed to sprint.

    I can see this as being really useful. However, adding another easy way of increasing movement speed would increase the need to buff the movement speed given by the Windrunning passive. 2% really is insignificant overall, make it at least 5%
    The thing about Windrunning is that it applies to all movement, and provides some regen. So 2% faster on mounts, while stealthed, while walking, while swimming, and so on. The well-fitted trait I suggested is only for sprint speeds. Although I am also underwhelmed by the 2% for Windrunning. I would like to see 4%
  • Scyantific
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    Nirnhoned is fine as is. You have to get the stone and then research it for that 9th trait.
  • DannyLV702
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    Nirnhoned is fine the way it is. There's a reason it's somewhat of a pain in the ass to get when you're not rich.
  • Ffastyl
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    So long as the traits are not totally revamped, I am fine with most of the current solutions. Weighted and Reinforced are my goto traits, believe it or not. That extra armor is my passion and the added attack speed from Weighted synergizes with my Heavy Attack Armor build. So long as the traits are being buffed, I have no complaints with the suggestions.

    Seeing an increase the percentage for Weighted or adding increased damage to normal attacks would be a welcome and hopefully not imbalancing change. At the current percentage, you can feel the difference at Superior quality and above (8%). Below that... there's barely a difference.

    Reinforced is kind of an unsung trait in my book. With so many focusing on DPS, so many becoming glass cannons first, survival second, defensive traits like Reinforced and Impenetrable got left on the wayside for non-meta players to pick up. High crit builds are everywhere, Impenetrable suits of armor reduce their damage dramatically. As for Reinforced? Reinforced plate grants an unbuffed resistance of 24k. I won't stop a buff to Reinforced, but it needs to be small.

    As for Impenetrable, a bigger buff is needed to remind people of its use. As of now, a full suit will reduce crit damage by about half on max level characters. The CS is needed to bridge the difference.

    Well-Fitted, Exploration, Sturdy... I do not know anyone who uses these, save when leveling. Sturdy would be a nice trait if not for the ease of which repairs are made. Exploration's non-combat bonus is not enough to overcome the combat bonuses of almost every other trait. Well-Fitted... I rarely sprint.

    Powered is a good trait to use with Absorb enchants and in combination with Torug's Pact. I do not know how the ingame formula works out, but theoretically a Legendary Powered weapon combined with Torug's Pact could reduce the cooldown to 2 seconds.

    If Infused were buffed to provide the same enchantment output as Powered, it would be worthwhile. But probably a little less than Powered otherwise the increased Soul Gem usage would be unjustified.

    Defending is pretty nice when you already have good armor rating (Reinforced Heavy anyone?). I have always worn Heavy Armor, so I cannot comment on how useful/less Defending is to less armored players.
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  • Ampnode
    Ampnode
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    Don't dare touch impenetrable. It's the only thing that makes my mag DK build make NBs hit like noodles.
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  • Faulgor
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    I already posted this 2 times, but apparently this thread got developer-recognition ... so 3rd time's a charm
    Faulgor wrote: »
    Well-fitted is underrated imo.

    But I'd rather see them improve the undesireable traits than simply remove them. Does anybody remember when they said on ESO live they were going to add traits that boost ultimate generation? Yeah. Been a few months.

    Armor
    Sturdy: Nobody in their right mind will make endgame gear worth thousands of gold so to save a couple of coins now and then. As suggested above, how about reduced cost for CC break?
    Impenetrable: The whole concept is not really that interesting. How about increase block amount/reduce block cost? That would fit the theme and is much more useful.
    Well-fitted: As suggested, dodge roll cost reduction seems fair.
    Training: This is actually not a bad trait to have for lower levels. Could be more appealing for higher levels with small overall exp gain boost.
    Exploration: There is no way in Oblivion this can be made viable. Just replace it with the promised ultimate generation boost.

    Weapon
    Powered: Sucks because weapon enchantments as a whole suck. The cooldown reduction could be rolled into Infused imo, and Powered change to a flat increase to weapon/spell damage like Reinforced works for armor.
    Charged: Would suck even if weapon enchantments were better. Replace this one with ultimate generation, maybe.
    Infused: As said above, add cooldown reduction.
    Weighted: As ZOS removed all other attackspeed bonuses from the game, I'm not sure why this stayed. I'd love to see aspd return, but for now, this might fit the current meta better with an increase to Light/Heavy attack damage.

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  • Preyfar
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    Fat_Cat45 wrote: »
    Well-Fitted: Reduce sprint cost and increase sprint speed by 0.5% / 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5%. I have no good idea on how to improve this trait besides adding move speed to sprint. If anyone thinks of a good way, let me know and I could edit it in as the best option.
    Well-Fitted implies that the armor is custom tailored to your every contour. Instead of run speed, it could also reduce the cost of sneaking (since if you're able to move that fast and free, why not be able to sneak as well? Makes logical sense).

  • duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO
    Preyfar wrote: »
    Fat_Cat45 wrote: »
    Well-Fitted: Reduce sprint cost and increase sprint speed by 0.5% / 1% / 1.5% / 2% / 2.5%. I have no good idea on how to improve this trait besides adding move speed to sprint. If anyone thinks of a good way, let me know and I could edit it in as the best option.
    Well-Fitted implies that the armor is custom tailored to your every contour. Instead of run speed, it could also reduce the cost of sneaking (since if you're able to move that fast and free, why not be able to sneak as well? Makes logical sense).
    Or even reduce the cost of roll-dodge etc.
    One might want to go as far as reduce the cost for all stamina based skills (sprinting, sneaking, blocking, dodging, fighting), but then one would have to also introduce some trait that would reduce magicka cost for balance between stamina / magicka users, like replacing exploration with a 'powered' version, which lets your magical forces flow more freely.
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