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Should Sorc shields scale of health?
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AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'Darnathian wrote: »The amount of bias in this thread is astounding. Seriously telling two players how bad they are for raising some valid concerns is uncalled for. Sure some points could have been made better but they were not countered very well. VALID CONCERNS. VALID. VALID.
Straight up are nb's and sorc's way above DKS and temps? (This is true, not debatable) If you say no keep enjoying your opness while it lasts. Because balancing is coming. Zos already confirmed it. Early next year.
And I promise you it is not DKs and Templars that will be brought down to earth. Come live with us mortals and let's see all those L2P comments. Because trust me I will be quoting them.
Can you post anything more constructive than (paraphrased): "Don't help me learn how to overcome these problems I have with sorcs"? (You completely ignored all the posts in the thread and summed it up as "boo hoo I can't L2P". Learn to read "bro".)
So you think DKs and Templars need buffs? Start consistently posting about how you think those classes should be buffed. Why just constantly whinge about nerfing other classes? Makes no sense unless you are intentionally wishing harm, which I believe is the case with most complainers, and it's so backwards.
So I guess you haven't noticed all those Dragon Knight and Templar posts that get ignored and sunk by ZOS? You really think we haven't been asking for changes for the last year?0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU3 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
You really don't like sorcs do you? You've complained about their damage, their ward, their stats and now streak. If a sorc streaks 4-5 times in a row then they are out of magicka and can't fight. Get some mobility or a gap closer and the kill will be yours.
It's not impossible to kill a good sorc but it might be impossible for you to kill a good sorc. Sounds like sorc is a good counter to your build. You're not meant to be able to kill everyone you see. There are certain DKs that I have no chance of killing by myself but I would never say that DK was op. Stam sorcs don't use streak but have more mobility than a magicka sorc. If you want to counter magicka sorcs then NB or DK is a better choice than templar. As a magicka templar you should be using dark flare, vampire's bane, blazing spear, radiant destruction, eclipse and purifying ritual against a sorc. These are the templar skills that make my life hard.PC | EU0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My issue with shields is that it forces everyone into spell damage builds and completely negates various skills, passives, etc.
Templars have two routes to BIS gear for damage. A Twice Born Star build that leverages the templar crit damage passive (piercing spear) by taking thief and shadow , and a Julianos build for spellpower. The TBS build and crit damage is obviously crap in PvP as shields cannot be crit. So not only is the TBS build out, the templar passive is negated against almost any magicka build.
An example of one of the many skills that could otherwise be very useful to a templar in PvP is quick siphon in the restro line. Quick siphon returns nothing from shields and is crap in PvP...
Some folks argue that it makes PvP more interesting because you have to carefully select your build in a rock, scissors, paper fashion. That's idiotic as nothing ignores spell damage in the way that shields ignore crits. All it does is narrow the builds that can be used in PvP and ultimately make PvP less interesting. Every class will have a few competitive builds depending on armor type, and that's about it.
All they need to do to inject more variety is allow crits on shields and increase shield strength to compensate, while adding the remaining laundry list of skills that don't work on shields to work (they changed a slew of skills to work on shields a while ago but missed a bunch).
Not a nerf, increase shield strength to compensate.
Or if people really like the rock, paper, scissors game, add something that allows you to ignore spell damage...Edited by Wreuntzylla on November 11, 2015 8:26AM1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.
No, merely that when I do manage to get enough damage in, and get their health low, they just spam escape multiple times.0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
You really don't like sorcs do you? You've complained about their damage, their ward, their stats and now streak. If a sorc streaks 4-5 times in a row then they are out of magicka and can't fight. Get some mobility or a gap closer and the kill will be yours.
It's not impossible to kill a good sorc but it might be impossible for you to kill a good sorc. Sounds like sorc is a good counter to your build. You're not meant to be able to kill everyone you see. There are certain DKs that I have no chance of killing by myself but I would never say that DK was op. Stam sorcs don't use streak but have more mobility than a magicka sorc. If you want to counter magicka sorcs then NB or DK is a better choice than templar. As a magicka templar you should be using dark flare, vampire's bane, blazing spear, radiant destruction, eclipse and purifying ritual against a sorc. These are the templar skills that make my life hard.
Put it this way, I gap close, they just lay down mines and spam escape 3 or 4 more times, does your gap closer work over that sort of distance ? Mine sure as hell doesnt.1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I currently have 3700-3800 spell damage, unfortunately we templars don't get the 10% boost that most sorcs will have, otherwise it would be at 4100 odd.0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
If what you're saying is true, then it truly is a L2P issue on your part. You should have no trouble taking down a sorc and instead of coming here crying for nerfs, you should go learn how to fight them and learn your own class.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I currently have 3700-3800 spell damage, unfortunately we templars don't get the 10% boost that most sorcs will have, otherwise it would be at 4100 odd.
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
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Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No...Wreuntzylla wrote: »My issue with shields is that it forces everyone into spell damage builds and completely negates various skills, passives, etc.
Templars have two routes to BIS gear for damage. A Twice Born Star build that leverages the templar crit damage passive (piercing spear) by taking thief and shadow , and a Julianos build for spellpower. The TBS build and crit damage is obviously crap in PvP as shields cannot be crit. So not only is the TBS build out, the templar passive is negated against almost any magicka build.
An example of one of the many skills that could otherwise be very useful to a templar in PvP is quick siphon in the restro line. Quick siphon returns nothing from shields and is crap in PvP...
Some folks argue that it makes PvP more interesting because you have to carefully select your build in a rock, scissors, paper fashion. That's idiotic as nothing ignores spell damage in the way that shields ignore crits. All it does is narrow the builds that can be used in PvP and ultimately make PvP less interesting. Every class will have a few competitive builds depending on armor type, and that's about it.
All they need to do to inject more variety is allow crits on shields and increase shield strength to compensate, while adding the remaining laundry list of skills that don't work on shields to work (they changed a slew of skills to work on shields a while ago but missed a bunch).
Not a nerf, increase shield strength to compensate.
Or if people really like the rock, paper, scissors game, add something that allows you to ignore spell damage...
The problem with crits on shields would be that it would be INSANELY hard to balance the correct shieldstrengh because of how easily and high the crit stat can be stacked by builds focusing to do so.
A normal magica build has 32% crit with 50% critdmg. However you could reach over 75% crit with a dmg modifier of ~70%. Stamina builds can go even higher critchance.
How would you intend to balance this. Balance around a middleground? The result would be builds that either completely ignore crit or go all out on crit because anything between 40 and 55% would just not offer enough benefit.
Balance around high crit builds (because they would *** shield users if you won´t do this)? Every shielduser becomes immortal against someone not utilizing max crit (the majority in pvp).
Balance around low crit? Every shielduser becomes virtually dead meat against medium to high crit builds because their defense is too weak.
They´re hardly managing to balance shields without crits and have a plenthora of other problems to address. I don´t think this solution would help the game in it´s current state.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
If what you're saying is true, then it truly is a L2P issue on your part. You should have no trouble taking down a sorc and instead of coming here crying for nerfs, you should go learn how to fight them and learn your own class.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I currently have 3700-3800 spell damage, unfortunately we templars don't get the 10% boost that most sorcs will have, otherwise it would be at 4100 odd.
Ah yes the spectacular well thought out l2p comment.
It really doesn't matter anymore Zenimax will see the malstrom boards, see that sorcs are currently far overpowered, and then nerf them in the class rebalance early next year
I will be sat with my popcorn as the sorcs get brought back down to reality.
1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
If what you're saying is true, then it truly is a L2P issue on your part. You should have no trouble taking down a sorc and instead of coming here crying for nerfs, you should go learn how to fight them and learn your own class.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I currently have 3700-3800 spell damage, unfortunately we templars don't get the 10% boost that most sorcs will have, otherwise it would be at 4100 odd.
Ah yes the spectacular well thought out l2p comment.
It really doesn't matter anymore Zenimax will see the malstrom boards, see that sorcs are currently far overpowered, and then nerf them in the class rebalance early next year
I will be sat with my popcorn as the sorcs get brought back down to reality.
What has pve to do with pvp in that regard? The reason sorcs doing so well is partly overlol - which is just an absurdly designed ability all along. Needs a complete rework imho.
Nightblades are a close second on vMSA (atleast for pc eu) and are considered a class with weak defense. By your logic they´ll get the pve nerfbat too? Cloak is obviously not the issue there...
As for your spec: There´s currently no benefit in getting your numbers of spelldmg against a sorc. Harness and hardened on top of each other are op. There´s no arguing about that. No single magica opponent can kill a sorc playing 100% defensive with harness and hardened.
However that´s the issue with harness and/or shields stacking not the sorc shield. Blaming the sorc shield is like saying: I can´t kill a templar with rapid regen on, standing in illustrous healing and casting bol. Therefor bol needs a nerf.
It´s going to heavily penalize the sorcs only using their one class shield while the ones stacking up to three shields against magica opponents will have 20k shields instead of 24k. WRONG WAY.
That all said: I´ve seen a magica cast templar slaughter two of my friends in duels just a few days ago. One a DK one a sorc. They both died in under a minute.Edited by Derra on November 11, 2015 12:25PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I'm sorry for asking the obvious but what are you using to break their shield since Sweep is currently glitched and loses the +140% damage bonus against shields? I mean theorycrafting or using outdated information is fine for reference but in practice it simply does not apply. Are you spamming Dark Flame and hoping they don't kill you while you are casting? Vampire's Bane does nothing but tickle the shield. Burning Light won't proc against a shield so that is out. Not to mention all of these are absorbed by Harness Magicka. So what do you do when you catch the Sorc? I'm guessing you are either in a group or your information is outdated.Edited by Hiero_Glyph on November 11, 2015 2:31PM2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I'm sorry for asking the obvious but what are you using to break their shield since Sweep is currently glitched and loses the +140% damage bonus against shields? I mean theorycrafting or using outdated information is fine for reference but in practice it simply does not apply. Are you spamming Dark Flame and hoping they don't kill you while you are casting? Vampire's Bane does nothing but tickle the shield. Burning Light won't proc against a shield so that is out. Not to mention all of these are absorbed by Harness Magicka. So what do you do when you catch the Sorc? I'm guessing you are either in a group or your information is outdated.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'
What has pve to do with pvp in that regard? The reason sorcs doing so well is partly overlol - which is just an absurdly designed ability all along. Needs a complete rework imho. (Yea, Overload is a bit unbalanced.)
Nightblades are a close second on vMSA (atleast for pc eu) and are considered a class with weak defense. By your logic they´ll get the pve nerfbat too? Cloak is obviously not the issue there...
As for your spec: There´s currently no benefit in getting your numbers of spelldmg against a sorc. Harness and hardened on top of each other are op. There´s no arguing about that. No single magica opponent can kill a sorc playing 100% defensive with harness and hardened. (Dear god thank you, you see the point. Also a sorc playing 100% defensive can still proc Crystal Shards....)
However that´s the issue with harness and/or shields stacking not the sorc shield. (Agreed) Blaming the sorc shield is like saying: I can´t kill a templar with rapid regen on, standing in illustrous healing and casting bol. Therefor bol needs a nerf (Except there are counters for healing, CC and -healing debuffs, high crit builds with high wep/spell dmg Shields ignore crits/most DOT's and their only hard counter is Shield Breaker set lol.).
It´s going to heavily penalize the sorcs only using their one class shield while the ones stacking up to three shields against magica opponents will have 20k shields instead of 24k. WRONG WAY.
That all said: I´ve seen a magica templar slaughter two of my friends in duels just a few days ago. One a DK one a sorc. They both died in under a minute. (Anecdotal and irrelevant as you can't prove it. He could have just been better geared or a better player, does not suggest the relative strength of the classes against eachother.)
I appreciate that at least one of you can admit your class is "slightly" over balanced. The issue with puncturing sweeps aside a good sorc should NEVER lose to any magicka class because of harness magicka and hardened ward being a little too strong vs magic.0 -
AfkNinja✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
This thread is about letting one specific shield scale off max health, not shieldstacking. There was no point in the comment I quoted because it completely missed the point - a Templar mentioning he could not catch a Bolt Escape spamming Sorc.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.Edited by Hiero_Glyph on November 11, 2015 4:39PM1 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider1 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.
Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
What are you even going on about? I don't use either of those skills on my bars. Casting something like Dark Flare is just asking to get interrupted with Crushing Shock. I get in the sorcs face and use sweep on them. If they try to run, I gap close.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I'm sorry for asking the obvious but what are you using to break their shield since Sweep is currently glitched and loses the +140% damage bonus against shields? I mean theorycrafting or using outdated information is fine for reference but in practice it simply does not apply. Are you spamming Dark Flame and hoping they don't kill you while you are casting? Vampire's Bane does nothing but tickle the shield. Burning Light won't proc against a shield so that is out. Not to mention all of these are absorbed by Harness Magicka. So what do you do when you catch the Sorc? I'm guessing you are either in a group or your information is outdated.
You have to run a sorc out of magic or stam and you're not going to ever take one down by casting Dark Flare over and over. That is the equivelant of the sorc that hard casts frags over and over.
And I run solo or in a duo most of the time, same as when I play my sorc.
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.
Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?Edited by Cinnamon_Spider on November 11, 2015 5:01PMCinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.
Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?
So your entire claim revolves around a L2P issue, not a Sorc is balanced one. Good to know.
It is worth noting that unskilled players are all AP pinatas, except unskilled Sorcs still have the best chance of any class to actually escape.1 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...
For the complaints people have made in this thread, and the suggestions on how to fight a sorc, yes it is obviously a L2P issue on their part.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.
It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...
Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.
So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.
Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?
So your entire claim revolves around a L2P issue, not a Sorc is balanced one. Good to know.
It is worth noting that unskilled players are all AP pinatas, except unskilled Sorcs still have the best chance of any class to actually escape.
With the changes to bolt escape cost stacking, no sorc is going to escape anyone with a gap closer.
Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
Exquisite Bedlam - Sorcerer AD rank 34
Cinnamonspiderdreams - Sorcerer EP rank 24
Synaris Astarte - Templar DC rank 24
Cinnamon Spider - Nightblade AD
Youtube - Cinnamon_Spider0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »My issue with shields is that it forces everyone into spell damage builds and completely negates various skills, passives, etc.
Templars have two routes to BIS gear for damage. A Twice Born Star build that leverages the templar crit damage passive (piercing spear) by taking thief and shadow , and a Julianos build for spellpower. The TBS build and crit damage is obviously crap in PvP as shields cannot be crit. So not only is the TBS build out, the templar passive is negated against almost any magicka build.
An example of one of the many skills that could otherwise be very useful to a templar in PvP is quick siphon in the restro line. Quick siphon returns nothing from shields and is crap in PvP...
Some folks argue that it makes PvP more interesting because you have to carefully select your build in a rock, scissors, paper fashion. That's idiotic as nothing ignores spell damage in the way that shields ignore crits. All it does is narrow the builds that can be used in PvP and ultimately make PvP less interesting. Every class will have a few competitive builds depending on armor type, and that's about it.
All they need to do to inject more variety is allow crits on shields and increase shield strength to compensate, while adding the remaining laundry list of skills that don't work on shields to work (they changed a slew of skills to work on shields a while ago but missed a bunch).
Not a nerf, increase shield strength to compensate.
Or if people really like the rock, paper, scissors game, add something that allows you to ignore spell damage...
The problem with crits on shields would be that it would be INSANELY hard to balance the correct shieldstrengh because of how easily and high the crit stat can be stacked by builds focusing to do so.
A normal magica build has 32% crit with 50% critdmg. However you could reach over 75% crit with a dmg modifier of ~70%. Stamina builds can go even higher critchance.
How would you intend to balance this. Balance around a middleground? The result would be builds that either completely ignore crit or go all out on crit because anything between 40 and 55% would just not offer enough benefit.
Balance around high crit builds (because they would *** shield users if you won´t do this)? Every shielduser becomes immortal against someone not utilizing max crit (the majority in pvp).
Balance around low crit? Every shielduser becomes virtually dead meat against medium to high crit builds because their defense is too weak.
They´re hardly managing to balance shields without crits and have a plenthora of other problems to address. I don´t think this solution would help the game in it´s current state.
Hardly managing? They have continuously failed to balance shields. The fact that magicka sorcs dominate the Maelstrom Arena leader boards is a great indication of the problem. Sorcs have been coming to the various forums and explaining that they completely circumvent the mechanics of the arena by ... stacking shields. While ZoS has a penchant for ignoring PvP issues, anytime an entire piece of PvE content is circumvented by [fill in the blank], ZoS fixes the problem within about a month. Especially if it's their latest and greatest.
Most high crit builds sacrifice spell power for crit. In the templar example, where crit hovers around 60%, plus crit damage at about 40-50% and spell damage at 2800 SP buffed, Julianos has been calculated to out damage a TBS build by about 1%... NB crit builds v. spell/weapon power builds result in a similar small damage difference. So balancing crit builds can arguably be done by taking the median crit damage done with a high spell power build and adding that amount to shields. The only advantage to running a crit build is then strings of crits.
I play all 4 classes at V16 in PvE and PvP. Multiples of some. I favor my sorcs for 1vX, but when I see that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, it's time to propose a solution that won't wreck the class. ZoS almost always goes with the easiest change to code. I think they are more likely to let shields be crit than, for example, disallowing shield stacking. There are PvE reasons ZoS does not want to buff DK and temp shields.
As an aside, I had thought NBs were doing really well on the leader boards until the stamina exploit became public...0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.
well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
If what you're saying is true, then it truly is a L2P issue on your part. You should have no trouble taking down a sorc and instead of coming here crying for nerfs, you should go learn how to fight them and learn your own class.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
When I fight a sorc on my Templar and they streak 4-5 times, I'm right on them casting Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
sigh...Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »
You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?
Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)
Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.
This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.
Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.
Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.
I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.
I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.
And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.
Er let's see
Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds
lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.
Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?
Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.
"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"
Jesus you people don't have a clue
I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.
I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.
Maybe it's a pc only thing then?
Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.
I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?
Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.
I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.
If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?
And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?
Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.
23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.
I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?
My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.
The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.
I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.
But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.
It sounds like you're issue is that you don't have enough spell damage.
I currently have 3700-3800 spell damage, unfortunately we templars don't get the 10% boost that most sorcs will have, otherwise it would be at 4100 odd.
well i´m actually on his side here a mana templar is inept to kill a well played sorc - but unlike his statements thats a two way situation, the templar currently lacks non ruptable or not bugged dmg to be able to kill a sorc. but on the other hand a sorc cant kill a comparable competent mana templar aswell thx to his superior healing and dmg mitigation - so fights between those two are currently decided by adds over time.Edited by Tankqull on November 11, 2015 5:55PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...Wreuntzylla wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »My issue with shields is that it forces everyone into spell damage builds and completely negates various skills, passives, etc.
Templars have two routes to BIS gear for damage. A Twice Born Star build that leverages the templar crit damage passive (piercing spear) by taking thief and shadow , and a Julianos build for spellpower. The TBS build and crit damage is obviously crap in PvP as shields cannot be crit. So not only is the TBS build out, the templar passive is negated against almost any magicka build.
An example of one of the many skills that could otherwise be very useful to a templar in PvP is quick siphon in the restro line. Quick siphon returns nothing from shields and is crap in PvP...
Some folks argue that it makes PvP more interesting because you have to carefully select your build in a rock, scissors, paper fashion. That's idiotic as nothing ignores spell damage in the way that shields ignore crits. All it does is narrow the builds that can be used in PvP and ultimately make PvP less interesting. Every class will have a few competitive builds depending on armor type, and that's about it.
All they need to do to inject more variety is allow crits on shields and increase shield strength to compensate, while adding the remaining laundry list of skills that don't work on shields to work (they changed a slew of skills to work on shields a while ago but missed a bunch).
Not a nerf, increase shield strength to compensate.
Or if people really like the rock, paper, scissors game, add something that allows you to ignore spell damage...
The problem with crits on shields would be that it would be INSANELY hard to balance the correct shieldstrengh because of how easily and high the crit stat can be stacked by builds focusing to do so.
A normal magica build has 32% crit with 50% critdmg. However you could reach over 75% crit with a dmg modifier of ~70%. Stamina builds can go even higher critchance.
How would you intend to balance this. Balance around a middleground? The result would be builds that either completely ignore crit or go all out on crit because anything between 40 and 55% would just not offer enough benefit.
Balance around high crit builds (because they would *** shield users if you won´t do this)? Every shielduser becomes immortal against someone not utilizing max crit (the majority in pvp).
Balance around low crit? Every shielduser becomes virtually dead meat against medium to high crit builds because their defense is too weak.
They´re hardly managing to balance shields without crits and have a plenthora of other problems to address. I don´t think this solution would help the game in it´s current state.
Hardly managing? They have continuously failed to balance shields. The fact that magicka sorcs dominate the Maelstrom Arena leader boards is a great indication of the problem. Sorcs have been coming to the various forums and explaining that they completely circumvent the mechanics of the arena by ... stacking shields. While ZoS has a penchant for ignoring PvP issues, anytime an entire piece of PvE content is circumvented by [fill in the blank], ZoS fixes the problem within about a month. Especially if it's their latest and greatest.
Most high crit builds sacrifice spell power for crit. In the templar example, where crit hovers around 60%, plus crit damage at about 40-50% and spell damage at 2800 SP buffed, Julianos has been calculated to out damage a TBS build by about 1%... NB crit builds v. spell/weapon power builds result in a similar small damage difference. So balancing crit builds can arguably be done by taking the median crit damage done with a high spell power build and adding that amount to shields. The only advantage to running a crit build is then strings of crits.
I play all 4 classes at V16 in PvE and PvP. Multiples of some. I favor my sorcs for 1vX, but when I see that the light at the end of the tunnel is a train, it's time to propose a solution that won't wreck the class. ZoS almost always goes with the easiest change to code. I think they are more likely to let shields be crit than, for example, disallowing shield stacking. There are PvE reasons ZoS does not want to buff DK and temp shields.
As an aside, I had thought NBs were doing really well on the leader boards until the stamina exploit became public...
So you think shieldstacking will get adressed because Sorcs have an easy time in Maelstrom, and to accomplish that ZOS will allow crits on shields. Fun story.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2
