Two-Handed Weapons: Mace vs Sword & Sharp vs Precise - Rough Spreadsheet

ArtOfShred · November 2015

So I decided to run some tests to determine which weapon would perform better between Maces/Swords and Sharp/Precise traits. Tests were done on the VR16 mobs in Orsinium with a VR12 Purple sword. I didn't factor champion points into this equation, but I have 0% bonus crit damage and 0% bonus armor pen from Champ Points.

I'm not entirely sure my math is completely solid here on calculating the way crit dmg/crit % works into contributing to the increased damage from Precise, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

Regardless, here's a spreadsheet comparing values. The % value is derived from dividing the number in the second column by the first column, in order to calculate what % of damage X weapon would do compared to Y weapon. I also compared the damage from both weapon types and trait types with Major Fracture (Ransack) debuff applied.

First chart is flat values, the 2nd two are cross comparisons between weapons with NO adjustment for Precise, and the 3rd chart updates the damage values from Precise to include the approximate benefit they would provide at 50% crit chance and 60% crit damage.
Higher Crit % would obviously diminish the value that Precise has over Sharpened
and vice versa
Higher Crit Damage would increase the value that Precise has over Sharpened.

The one thing I'm unsure on is how the Champion Point bonus Crit modifier factor's into this, I've heard the final value from your damage is multiplied by the crit modifier.

Google Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1db6SiktE5aSrxmVR5vpRuyULe7Clp82tbShpFZcLGjA/pubhtml

Conclusions:
It appears that with Major Fracture up, Precise Sword with Aedric Spear Passive is better on all but the highest armor class enemies. Without Major Fracture available, Mace damage will pull ahead on medium armored targets like Spriggans, Durzogs, and Bears.

Heavy Armor/Bosses = 100% Sharp Mace
Medium Armor Enemies = Precise Sword IF you have Major Fracture, Sharp Mace if you do not
Low Armor Enemies = Precise Sword regardless

Forestd16b14_ESO · November 2015

Nice info to bad no one is gonna listen or read cause when they see sword deals more damage their gonna use it no questions cause why use a gold level mace with sharpen to get 34% penetration when all your stamina skills deal more damage.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Good work

Asayre · November 2015

@ArtOfShred thanks for the testing it was a pretty interesting read. I do agree with your general conclusion that for mobs with high resistance a sharpened mace is preferred and for mobs with low armour a precise sword is better.

My suggestions to extend these results are
- calculate it for a wider range of critical chance and critical modifier
- calculate it for legendary weapons
- calculate it for a range of armour values
- determine the armour values for typically encountered mobs/bosses

Ffastyl · November 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Nice info to bad no one is gonna listen or read cause when they see sword deals more damage their gonna use it no questions cause why use a gold level mace with sharpen to get 34% penetration when all your stamina skills deal more damage.

I use a sword because it's a sword. Even if the secondary effect were bleed damage, armor penetration, crit rate or anything else, I would choose a longsword. This is one of those "form over function" decisions.

mr_wazzabi · November 2015

ArtOfShred wrote: »

So I decided to run some tests to determine which weapon would perform better between Maces/Swords and Sharp/Precise traits. Tests were done on the VR16 mobs in Orsinium with a VR12 Purple sword. I didn't factor champion points into this equation, but I have 0% bonus crit damage and 0% bonus armor pen from Champ Points.

I'm not entirely sure my math is completely solid here on calculating the way crit dmg/crit % works into contributing to the increased damage from Precise, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

Regardless, here's a spreadsheet comparing values. The % value is derived from dividing the number in the second column by the first column, in order to calculate what % of damage X weapon would do compared to Y weapon. I also compared the damage from both weapon types and trait types with Major Fracture (Ransack) debuff applied.

First chart is flat values, the 2nd two are cross comparisons between weapons with NO adjustment for Precise, and the 3rd chart updates the damage values from Precise to include the approximate benefit they would provide at 50% crit chance and 60% crit damage.
Higher Crit % would obviously diminish the value that Precise has over Sharpened
and vice versa
Higher Crit Damage would increase the value that Precise has over Sharpened.

The one thing I'm unsure on is how the Champion Point bonus Crit modifier factor's into this, I've heard the final value from your damage is multiplied by the crit modifier.

Google Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1db6SiktE5aSrxmVR5vpRuyULe7Clp82tbShpFZcLGjA/pubhtml

Conclusions:
It appears that with Major Fracture up, Precise Sword with Aedric Spear Passive is better on all but the highest armor class enemies. Without Major Fracture available, Mace damage will pull ahead on medium armored targets like Spriggans, Durzogs, and Bears.

Heavy Armor/Bosses = 100% Sharp Mace
Medium Armor Enemies = Precise Sword IF you have Major Fracture, Sharp Mace if you do not
Low Armor Enemies = Precise Sword regardless

Great testing!
I always knew bosses had high armour. I was right to make a gold maul of hunding rage. Plus, it looks baddass swinging a sledgehammer at people

mr_wazzabi · November 2015

ArtOfShred wrote: »

So I decided to run some tests to determine which weapon would perform better between Maces/Swords and Sharp/Precise traits. Tests were done on the VR16 mobs in Orsinium with a VR12 Purple sword. I didn't factor champion points into this equation, but I have 0% bonus crit damage and 0% bonus armor pen from Champ Points.

I'm not entirely sure my math is completely solid here on calculating the way crit dmg/crit % works into contributing to the increased damage from Precise, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

Regardless, here's a spreadsheet comparing values. The % value is derived from dividing the number in the second column by the first column, in order to calculate what % of damage X weapon would do compared to Y weapon. I also compared the damage from both weapon types and trait types with Major Fracture (Ransack) debuff applied.

First chart is flat values, the 2nd two are cross comparisons between weapons with NO adjustment for Precise, and the 3rd chart updates the damage values from Precise to include the approximate benefit they would provide at 50% crit chance and 60% crit damage.
Higher Crit % would obviously diminish the value that Precise has over Sharpened
and vice versa
Higher Crit Damage would increase the value that Precise has over Sharpened.

The one thing I'm unsure on is how the Champion Point bonus Crit modifier factor's into this, I've heard the final value from your damage is multiplied by the crit modifier.

Google Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1db6SiktE5aSrxmVR5vpRuyULe7Clp82tbShpFZcLGjA/pubhtml

Conclusions:
It appears that with Major Fracture up, Precise Sword with Aedric Spear Passive is better on all but the highest armor class enemies. Without Major Fracture available, Mace damage will pull ahead on medium armored targets like Spriggans, Durzogs, and Bears.

Heavy Armor/Bosses = 100% Sharp Mace
Medium Armor Enemies = Precise Sword IF you have Major Fracture, Sharp Mace if you do not
Low Armor Enemies = Precise Sword regardless

Could you test this for magicka characters as well? I want to see if sharpened maces would cause melee spells like puncturing sweep to ignore armour.

lathbury · November 2015

was this with shadow mundus what about with warrior? what about dw sharpened/ precise on maces sword and daggers.

zornyan · November 2015

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

ArtOfShred wrote: »

So I decided to run some tests to determine which weapon would perform better between Maces/Swords and Sharp/Precise traits. Tests were done on the VR16 mobs in Orsinium with a VR12 Purple sword. I didn't factor champion points into this equation, but I have 0% bonus crit damage and 0% bonus armor pen from Champ Points.

I'm not entirely sure my math is completely solid here on calculating the way crit dmg/crit % works into contributing to the increased damage from Precise, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

Regardless, here's a spreadsheet comparing values. The % value is derived from dividing the number in the second column by the first column, in order to calculate what % of damage X weapon would do compared to Y weapon. I also compared the damage from both weapon types and trait types with Major Fracture (Ransack) debuff applied.

First chart is flat values, the 2nd two are cross comparisons between weapons with NO adjustment for Precise, and the 3rd chart updates the damage values from Precise to include the approximate benefit they would provide at 50% crit chance and 60% crit damage.
Higher Crit % would obviously diminish the value that Precise has over Sharpened
and vice versa
Higher Crit Damage would increase the value that Precise has over Sharpened.

The one thing I'm unsure on is how the Champion Point bonus Crit modifier factor's into this, I've heard the final value from your damage is multiplied by the crit modifier.

Google Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1db6SiktE5aSrxmVR5vpRuyULe7Clp82tbShpFZcLGjA/pubhtml

Conclusions:
It appears that with Major Fracture up, Precise Sword with Aedric Spear Passive is better on all but the highest armor class enemies. Without Major Fracture available, Mace damage will pull ahead on medium armored targets like Spriggans, Durzogs, and Bears.

Heavy Armor/Bosses = 100% Sharp Mace
Medium Armor Enemies = Precise Sword IF you have Major Fracture, Sharp Mace if you do not
Low Armor Enemies = Precise Sword regardless

Could you test this for magicka characters as well? I want to see if sharpened maces would cause melee spells like puncturing sweep to ignore armour.

It wouldn't do, sweeps is counted as magic damage and works on spell resistance, maces don't affect spell penetration only physical , best is still two nirnhoned swords for magicka users.

mr_wazzabi · November 2015

zornyan wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

ArtOfShred wrote: »

So I decided to run some tests to determine which weapon would perform better between Maces/Swords and Sharp/Precise traits. Tests were done on the VR16 mobs in Orsinium with a VR12 Purple sword. I didn't factor champion points into this equation, but I have 0% bonus crit damage and 0% bonus armor pen from Champ Points.

I'm not entirely sure my math is completely solid here on calculating the way crit dmg/crit % works into contributing to the increased damage from Precise, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

Regardless, here's a spreadsheet comparing values. The % value is derived from dividing the number in the second column by the first column, in order to calculate what % of damage X weapon would do compared to Y weapon. I also compared the damage from both weapon types and trait types with Major Fracture (Ransack) debuff applied.

First chart is flat values, the 2nd two are cross comparisons between weapons with NO adjustment for Precise, and the 3rd chart updates the damage values from Precise to include the approximate benefit they would provide at 50% crit chance and 60% crit damage.
Higher Crit % would obviously diminish the value that Precise has over Sharpened
and vice versa
Higher Crit Damage would increase the value that Precise has over Sharpened.

The one thing I'm unsure on is how the Champion Point bonus Crit modifier factor's into this, I've heard the final value from your damage is multiplied by the crit modifier.

Google Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1db6SiktE5aSrxmVR5vpRuyULe7Clp82tbShpFZcLGjA/pubhtml

Conclusions:
It appears that with Major Fracture up, Precise Sword with Aedric Spear Passive is better on all but the highest armor class enemies. Without Major Fracture available, Mace damage will pull ahead on medium armored targets like Spriggans, Durzogs, and Bears.

Heavy Armor/Bosses = 100% Sharp Mace
Medium Armor Enemies = Precise Sword IF you have Major Fracture, Sharp Mace if you do not
Low Armor Enemies = Precise Sword regardless

Could you test this for magicka characters as well? I want to see if sharpened maces would cause melee spells like puncturing sweep to ignore armour.

It wouldn't do, sweeps is counted as magic damage and works on spell resistance, maces don't affect spell penetration only physical , best is still two nirnhoned swords for magicka users.

That's what i thought. Thanks.
So sharpened for magicka characters is useless then? What about a sharpened destro staff? Useless?

cschwingeb14_ESO · November 2015

Nirnhoned is best for magicka users in all situations except healing. If using a staff, then that's it. If using DW then nirnhoned swords

Khivas_Carrick · November 2015

Somebody ran a similar test awhile ago using way more endgame and broad test parameters, and came to the conclusion that for most, if not all fights, it's best to stick to a 2H sharpened Mace

[Deleted User] · November 2015

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