A Glimmer Of Hope For The Game

Nafirian · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I think the biggest problem with ZOS at the moment is that 97% of their employees seem to be artists, 2% gameplay designers and 1% programmer. The artists deliver good work, the gameplay designers cannot change a few numbers in a spreadsheet without breaking a dozen skills and the programmer, well, I pity his poor, doomed soul.

At this moment all I expect from ZOS is to finish* the content that was meant to be a part of the game at launch and then let it slowly dwindle while trying to milk the Crown Store.

*This means cut everything that's relatively complicated and release it. See IC.

Never thought id say this but i agree with you kris.

Master_Kas · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

Dw was actually crazy strong even magicka builds. with all dks running around. Remember the sparks skill. Made the dk miss all his whips for 4 seconds, also old magicka morph surprise attack, jabs + all melee weapon attacks. I miss it so much

But yeah most of the population ran light armor, SnB and resto staff xD

FENGRUSH · November 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

Dw was actually crazy strong even magicka builds. with all dks running around. Remember the sparks skill. Made the dk miss all his whips for 4 seconds, also old magicka morph surprise attack, jabs + all melee weapon attacks. I miss it so much

But yeah most of the population ran light armor, SnB and resto staff xD

Yea they gave it to every NB mob in maelstrom just to stick it to the stam builds.

frozywozy · November 2015

I always laugh when I see people say BRING BACK 1.5!. 1.5 had its share of problems and I would not go anywhere near that at any point. The game got much much much much better since 1.5. I don't have a good memory of changes and I simply don't have the time and devotion to go through all the patch notes one by one but I do read them everytime they get released and I highlight the major changes in my own guild forums. Devs did a good job overall to fix abilities and balance. We are still waiting for improvements regarding performances and regarding small scale PvP though.

But in the end, the only major aspects that I want back from 1.5 is dynamic ult generation and no AOE caps. I don't care about the rest and I don't think anyone should.

Raizin · November 2015

Efficient wrote: »

A "Road Ahead" ....

Year 2016 - Eric Wrobel will make a forum account.

Year 2017 - Eric Wrobel will read and maybe post on the forums?

Year 2018 - Eric Wrobel will be convinced we have a point?

Year 2019 - Removal of AoE caps?

Lava_Croft · November 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

But in the end, the only major aspects that I want back from 1.5 is dynamic ult generation and no AOE caps. I don't care about the rest and I don't think anyone should.

And this is how rose tinted glasses work. 1.5 had even worse AoE caps than the current version.

Publius_Scipio · November 2015

Frozn Yogurt actually made the most sense in this thread compared to the majority. All this "I want 1.5 back BS". No one wanted 1.5 when 1.5 was live. Guys like F. Yogurt and Fengrush actually cut through most of the thick muck of ideas and verbiage here on these forums. Remove AOE caps and call it a day. Then afterwards worry about some tweaks to skills and everyone go take a nap.

You guys spend a ton of time analyzing and commenting on what's going on at ZOS's offices, employee moral and whatever. That is the biggest crock of BS and you all know it. ZOS, please remove AOE caps, if you can't please communicate with us why it isn't possible. End of story.

Also I just want to add that for those of us who also do enjoy PvE and are here because ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, ZOS in a majority of players opinions that I have read on the forums or in zone, have hit a grand slam with the Wrothgar zone. Everything is just so much more polished and it's the first zone where I feel like I am in an ES game with other players. While in Wrothgar I have run into quite a few new to ESO players that are here because of reviews and word of mouth surrounding the new zone. And also I think Wrothgar had enough pull that players that haven't been around since last year logged back in. ZOS can deliver.

There are a lot of assumptions and arguments made about ZOS's lack of skill and know-how and its all crap. Like captain Frozn Yogurt who leads his own red blob around said, remove AOE caps and call it a day. F all this BS about roll the game back to previous updates. And like Fengrush simply said, if ZOS cannot for some reason remove AOE caps then we would like to know why. Simple, done.

When are a lot of you going to call it a day anyways? You say you been trying to tell ZOS this and that for two years now and it has "fallen on deaf ears" as you say. Yet here you are, it's November 2015 and you have just posted your 136th thread on the end of ESO PvP and ZOS being bad. And I never got to finish in another thread a couple of weeks ago because a moderator closed it down, but i made a reference to the people staying in ESO and complaining to those who don't like a restaurant but keep going back. It was either tinyARMSitas or Akinos who made the remark that "people need food and its the only restaurant around". Well, as I said in that thread, the players that had the guts to leave when they said they would are already long gone. And it seems they used Yelp and found plenty of other restaurants they liked.

Manoekin · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

But in the end, the only major aspects that I want back from 1.5 is dynamic ult generation and no AOE caps. I don't care about the rest and I don't think anyone should.

And this is how rose tinted glasses work. 1.5 had even worse AoE caps than the current version.

His point stands, though. 1.5 = negate wars, purge bug, heal debuff stacking. Plus various bugs that got fixed in slow moving incremental patches. I'm probably even forgetting more bugs. Also in 1.5 you could bypass the scroll gate without any type of exploit if you knew what you were doing. IMO it's right behind the lighting patch for worst patch in ESO history. Was that also when heavy attacks couldn't be bashed anymore, or was that 1.6? Maybe 1v1 it was a good patch though.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

But in the end, the only major aspects that I want back from 1.5 is dynamic ult generation and no AOE caps. I don't care about the rest and I don't think anyone should.

And this is how rose tinted glasses work. 1.5 had even worse AoE caps than the current version.

His point stands, though. 1.5 = negate wars, purge bug, heal debuff stacking. Plus various bugs that got fixed in slow moving incremental patches. I'm probably even forgetting more bugs. Also in 1.5 you could bypass the scroll gate without any type of exploit if you knew what you were doing. IMO it's right behind the lighting patch for worst patch in ESO history. Was that also when heavy attacks couldn't be bashed anymore, or was that 1.6? Maybe 1v1 it was a good patch though.

PvP in 1.5 was pretty one-dimensional with everybody running basically the same Light Armor Magicka build, only with different classes. That's at least one thing the game got kind of right post-1.5.

Nafirian · November 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Frozn Yogurt actually made the most sense in this thread compared to the majority. All this "I want 1.5 back BS". No one wanted 1.5 when 1.5 was live. Guys like F. Yogurt and Fengrush actually cut through most of the thick muck of ideas and verbiage here on these forums. Remove AOE caps and call it a day. Then afterwards worry about some tweaks to skills and everyone go take a nap.

You guys spend a ton of time analyzing and commenting on what's going on at ZOS's offices, employee moral and whatever. That is the biggest crock of BS and you all know it. ZOS, please remove AOE caps, if you can't please communicate with us why it isn't possible. End of story.

Also I just want to add that for those of us who also do enjoy PvE and are here because ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, ZOS in a majority of players opinions that I have read on the forums or in zone, have hit a grand slam with the Wrothgar zone. Everything is just so much more polished and it's the first zone where I feel like I am in an ES game with other players. While in Wrothgar I have run into quite a few new to ESO players that are here because of reviews and word of mouth surrounding the new zone. And also I think Wrothgar had enough pull that players that haven't been around since last year logged back in. ZOS can deliver.

There are a lot of assumptions and arguments made about ZOS's lack of skill and know-how and its all crap. Like captain Frozn Yogurt who leads his own red blob around said, remove AOE caps and call it a day. F all this BS about roll the game back to previous updates. And like Fengrush simply said, if ZOS cannot for some reason remove AOE caps then we would like to know why. Simple, done.

When are a lot of you going to call it a day anyways? You say you been trying to tell ZOS this and that for two years now and it has "fallen on deaf ears" as you say. Yet here you are, it's November 2015 and you have just posted your 136th thread on the end of ESO PvP and ZOS being bad. And I never got to finish in another thread a couple of weeks ago because a moderator closed it down, but i made a reference to the people staying in ESO and complaining to those who don't like a restaurant but keep going back. It was either tinyARMSitas or Akinos who made the remark that "people need food and its the only restaurant around". Well, as I said in that thread, the players that had the guts to leave when they said they would are already long gone. And it seems they used Yelp and found plenty of other restaurants they liked.

Im personally not asking for a reroll to 1.5 but some mechanics need to be changed i probably should have made it clearer in the OP but still as i said the mechanics need to be changed or game si rip in 5-7 months,

Rust_in_Peace · November 2015

1.6 pvp with no champion system, no aoe caps and a different ult system would be my preferred version of the game with the damage reduction from battle presence lowered to maybe 30%. As kind of a side note; I like the IDEA of the CP system but not in it's current form of just boring % based passive that give flat boost/reduction to damage. That is just lazy and boring design. The perks are interesting and I would like to see more diversity there, more branches in each path where your choices actually matter and you could make unique builds.

themdogesbite · November 2015

Rook_Master wrote: »

Someone fantasizing about a rollback to 1.5 is a 'glimmer of hope'?

Seems like most of these people nostalgic about 1.5 are wearing rose-tinted glasses that cause them to forget about unkillable DKs that can spam ultimates as fast as normal skills, amongst other stupid stuff like one-shotting Snipes, etc.

This game has come a long way since 1.5 It's not perfect, but it's definitely better.

100% dmg mitgation NBs? 10k+ blazing shields? infinite negates via streak? Id much rather have all of this then the pitifull excuse of PvP we have now.

Nafirian · November 2015

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Someone fantasizing about a rollback to 1.5 is a 'glimmer of hope'?

Seems like most of these people nostalgic about 1.5 are wearing rose-tinted glasses that cause them to forget about unkillable DKs that can spam ultimates as fast as normal skills, amongst other stupid stuff like one-shotting Snipes, etc.

This game has come a long way since 1.5 It's not perfect, but it's definitely better.

100% dmg mitgation NBs? 10k+ blazing shields? infinite negates via streak? Id much rather have all of this then the pitifull excuse of PvP we have now.

You forgot infinite banner/bats for DK doges >:O y u do dis But ye it was much better back then ZOS are struggling to find the right balance because ZOS are incompetent beyond belif.

TheLaw · November 2015

You need to work on your grammar and sentence structure, but I get the gist of what you're saying. I agree that PVP is far less fun than it was at launch. Zos has moved far away from their original vision. The PVP team needs to be restructured, they don't seem to have any real direction. I'm also fairly certain that ZOS is outsourcing a lot of the work (i.e. code). If not, there is no logical reason that game performance and latency is worse today than launch.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

TheLaw wrote: »

You need to work on your grammar and sentence structure, but I get the gist of what you're saying. I agree that PVP is far less fun than it was at launch. Zos has moved far away from their original vision. The PVP team needs to be restructured, they don't seem to have any real direction. I'm also fairly certain that ZOS is outsourcing a lot of the work (i.e. code). If not, there is no logical reason that game performance and latency is worse today than launch.

A possible reason is that the engineers who coded the engine have left the company and there's only people who don't really know how things work to try and solve the bugs.

Xinthisis · November 2015

Nafirian wrote: »

Hey Everyone this discussion will be about the state of the game and how ti has rapidly deteriorated both in PVE And PVP And Hopefully this will garner enough attention that ZOS Will listen "Hopefully"

So let us begin I played since beta bla bla bla still playing now. In my honest opinion this game was at its best in 1.5 and just needed a few changes to DK and a few other minor adjustments but that's IMO And the game would have been perfect so what went wrong and how did we get to where players are having to spoon feed developers on a podcast?

Well The AOE Cap Was the most BS thing that ever happened along with the champion system But we will move on to that later. AOE Caps stopped Well made it harder for smaller groups to wipe larger groups just because we didnt deal enough damage to kill them if they used barrier ETC ETC In 1.5 With dynamic ult gen and no AOE Caps the larger groups get destroyed by smaller BETTER and more organised players (Bomb Squads) Nowadays If 9 people run into a barrier rotating 24 man proxy det steel tornado ROFL Train they wont last very long even though the player are better The zergs should be powerful because they have numbers not because game mechanics make them stronger. ZOS Need to sort it out because zergs have far too much power in cyrodiil but that's what I think anyway.

Now for CP The CP cap could have been done better but i dont know how but i felt too lazy but hey at least they listened im not going to slander ZOS for listening to us keep it up plox The Champion point introduction took resource management and threw it out the window i took a month off when 1.6 dropped and i came back and i was 100-190 CP behind everyone else but i caught and was at the end of 1.7 i was at 524 CP But CP made managing resources FAAAAR too easy and gave such a massive advantage to those who had more but thats been fixed now everyone is at 501 but IMO they should have done it like this cap is at 800 CP and anyone below 400 CP is permanently enlightened until that 400 CP point then once you get over that instead of being enlightened once a day you get it 2 times a day from 400-600 or 700 CP But that's just my opinion anyways.

Now for Dynamic ult generation my favorite topic in the game currently ult gen is static so everyone earns ult at exactly the same rate unless you use heroic slash to gain minor heroism. So everyone earns ult at the same rate seems fair on paper yes? The larger zergs can pop barriers for my 4-12 man grp and not even care because they will have another one up or already up ready to pop again if needed this is what i loved about 1.5 smaller better groups witch hit these rofl trains got rewarded with more ult to use to kill these trains and i loved that mechanic and the larger group had numbers more healers and more damage but we were coordinated better and played better and we won because of that we were rewarded for that

Now that's just my opinion that's why i put it up we need to discuss whats gonna happen or ZOS are going to kill their own game without realizing it. ZOS Need to realize their pvp was so good and had so many players and if they bring back changed old mechanics they would bring back so many players and they would make that money we all know they want I know a few people wont agree with me but hey that's why its called a "Discussion" I shall now proceed to post jurra videos because he explains it better than i do. I remember when i used to run with this group and we would rek face now its just a sad dying game and we need to change it. WTB Old scales animation BTW Please ZOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2RI5JR02o

Oh and who can forget these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

The videos bring tears to my eyes.. such beauty.

Teargrants · November 2015

"Bring back 1.X pvp" isn't about literally reverting to the older game build and leaving it there, bugs and all intact. It's about pointing out how numerous aspects of PvP from gameplay mechanics to skill balance, ect have been done better in the past than they are now. Let's take a look:

- 1.1 had 0 cost infinite bat spam and even the caltrops negating siege dmg for a month, but it also had practically no lag.

- 1.2 had fixes for bats and caltrops, but it also had the 5 FPS bug for 2 weeks and the anti bot system update which forever destroyed any semblance of lag free PvP and still ruins the game to this day. Also introduced AOE caps on uncapped skills @ this time iirc.

- 1.4 still had uncapped Streak-Encase-Negate spam, health desync from snipe, one shotting Blazing Shields, but we still had ground oils and forward camps.

- 1.5 still had tons of bugs like the purge bug, health debuffs stacking to 100%, no more ground oils because of baddies QQing on the forums, capped ult gen on Streak, unbreakable vampire feed, unbreakable cc from knockdown + root combos (might have been an earlier patch), ect. But, we still had dynamic ult gen, we still had soft caps, we still had unpurgable oil cats, responsive wep swap, hybrid builds were still a thing, people didn't blow up in seconds from instagibs.

- 1.6 fixed lots of combat bugs and helped balance a number of skills + stam buffs sure, but it also brought us infinite dodge rollerblades, streak more than ever before, limited build diversity because of no soft caps which meant that stacking everything into primary stats was more rewarding, killed hybrid builds, nerfs to heavy armor, static ult gen, no more unpurgable oil, Steel Tornado cheese wheels, horribly unresponsive wep swap because of the GCD lockout applied to wep swap to prevent us from "accidentally swapping weps multiple times" (which was only an issue before because of the craptastic lag), PROX DET WHICH ONLY STRENGTHENED CHEESE WHEEL BALLS, Camo Hunter Caltrops, nerfed Crit Surge into the ground, stupidly designed Nirnhoned which wasn't fixed for 6 months even though it was a 'known issue', CP system that was poorly thought out and horribly biased in favor of Stamina, ect.

- 2.1 fixed some more bugs, but brought us crap like infinite dmg Trap Beast, INSTA CAST PROX DET WHICH ONCE AGAIN ONLY BENEFITED THE CHEESE WHEEL, deleted Former Emp passives from the game, utterly *** on build diversity once and for all by limiting BIS jewelry to 2 sets, also *** on Block/Dodge Roll/Bolt Escape, horrible changes to Battle Spirit which *** on things like Blazing Shield, GDB, Energy Orb, ect. And this isn't even getting into what IC did to PvP as a whole.

- 2.2 fixed some more bugs, but brought us 30% increased base Block cost stealth nerf which "may be 'fixed' by January", the worst gear grind ever with literally every new dropped set being bind on pickup, and apparently an inconsistent stamina skill cost bug too.

So yeah, by and large the total combat overhauls from 1.6 and 2.1 introduced numerous issues to PvP that simply did not have to happen. 1.5 had tons of flaws sure, but it was a progressive step in the right direction on most things, like skill balance and bringing stam builds up to par. Keeping the core combat and game mechanics from 1.5 and continuing to adjust individual skills/passives/gear while removing AOE caps would have been much better than the total overhauls of 1.6 and 2.1 that nobody even asked for.

frozywozy · November 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

"Bring back 1.X pvp" isn't about literally reverting to the older game build and leaving it there, bugs and all intact. It's about pointing out how numerous aspects of PvP from gameplay mechanics to skill balance, ect have been done better in the past than they are now. Let's take a look:

- 1.1 had 0 cost infinite bat spam and even the caltrops negating siege dmg for a month, but it also had practically no lag.

- 1.2 had fixes for bats and caltrops, but it also had the 5 FPS bug for 2 weeks and the anti bot system update which forever destroyed any semblance of lag free PvP and still ruins the game to this day. Also introduced AOE caps on uncapped skills @ this time iirc.

- 1.4 still had uncapped Streak-Encase-Negate spam, health desync from snipe, one shotting Blazing Shields, but we still had ground oils and forward camps.

- 1.5 still had tons of bugs like the purge bug, health debuffs stacking to 100%, no more ground oils because of baddies QQing on the forums, capped ult gen on Streak, unbreakable vampire feed, unbreakable cc from knockdown + root combos (might have been an earlier patch), ect. But, we still had dynamic ult gen, we still had soft caps, we still had unpurgable oil cats, responsive wep swap, hybrid builds were still a thing, people didn't blow up in seconds from instagibs.

- 1.6 fixed lots of combat bugs and helped balance a number of skills + stam buffs sure, but it also brought us infinite dodge rollerblades, streak more than ever before, limited build diversity because of no soft caps which meant that stacking everything into primary stats was more rewarding, killed hybrid builds, nerfs to heavy armor, static ult gen, no more unpurgable oil, Steel Tornado cheese wheels, horribly unresponsive wep swap because of the GCD lockout applied to wep swap to prevent us from "accidentally swapping weps multiple times" (which was only an issue before because of the craptastic lag), PROX DET WHICH ONLY STRENGTHENED CHEESE WHEEL BALLS, Camo Hunter Caltrops, nerfed Crit Surge into the ground, stupidly designed Nirnhoned which wasn't fixed for 6 months even though it was a 'known issue', CP system that was poorly thought out and horribly biased in favor of Stamina, ect.

- 2.1 fixed some more bugs, but brought us crap like infinite dmg Trap Beast, INSTA CAST PROX DET WHICH ONCE AGAIN ONLY BENEFITED THE CHEESE WHEEL, deleted Former Emp passives from the game, utterly *** on build diversity once and for all by limiting BIS jewelry to 2 sets, also *** on Block/Dodge Roll/Bolt Escape, horrible changes to Battle Spirit which *** on things like Blazing Shield, GDB, Energy Orb, ect. And this isn't even getting into what IC did to PvP as a whole.

- 2.2 fixed some more bugs, but brought us 30% increased base Block cost stealth nerf which "may be 'fixed' by January", the worst gear grind ever with literally every new dropped set being bind on pickup, and apparently an inconsistent stamina skill cost bug too.

So yeah, by and large the total combat overhauls from 1.6 and 2.1 introduced numerous issues to PvP that simply did not have to happen. 1.5 had tons of flaws sure, but it was a progressive step in the right direction on most things, like skill balance and bringing stam builds up to par. Keeping the core combat and game mechanics from 1.5 and continuing to adjust individual skills/passives/gear while removing AOE caps would have been much better than the total overhauls of 1.6 and 2.1 that nobody even asked for.

JaJaLuka · November 2015

Nafirian wrote: »

Efficient wrote: »

A "Road Ahead" ....

Year 2016 - Eric Wrobel will make a forum account.

Year 2017 - Eric Wrobel will read and maybe post on the forums?

Year 2018 - Eric Wrobel will be convinced we have a point?

Year 2019 - Removal of AoE caps?

2018 Everyone is on CU Or BDO And ZOS are kicking a dead horse

Just biding my time at the moment, haven't looked too much into CU and I don't know what BDO is lol.

FENGRUSH · November 2015

Even Teargrants wants AOE caps removed - let it be done.

Nafirian · November 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

"Bring back 1.X pvp" isn't about literally reverting to the older game build and leaving it there, bugs and all intact. It's about pointing out how numerous aspects of PvP from gameplay mechanics to skill balance, ect have been done better in the past than they are now. Let's take a look:

- 1.1 had 0 cost infinite bat spam and even the caltrops negating siege dmg for a month, but it also had practically no lag.

- 1.2 had fixes for bats and caltrops, but it also had the 5 FPS bug for 2 weeks and the anti bot system update which forever destroyed any semblance of lag free PvP and still ruins the game to this day. Also introduced AOE caps on uncapped skills @ this time iirc.

- 1.4 still had uncapped Streak-Encase-Negate spam, health desync from snipe, one shotting Blazing Shields, but we still had ground oils and forward camps.

- 1.5 still had tons of bugs like the purge bug, health debuffs stacking to 100%, no more ground oils because of baddies QQing on the forums, capped ult gen on Streak, unbreakable vampire feed, unbreakable cc from knockdown + root combos (might have been an earlier patch), ect. But, we still had dynamic ult gen, we still had soft caps, we still had unpurgable oil cats, responsive wep swap, hybrid builds were still a thing, people didn't blow up in seconds from instagibs.

- 1.6 fixed lots of combat bugs and helped balance a number of skills + stam buffs sure, but it also brought us infinite dodge rollerblades, streak more than ever before, limited build diversity because of no soft caps which meant that stacking everything into primary stats was more rewarding, killed hybrid builds, nerfs to heavy armor, static ult gen, no more unpurgable oil, Steel Tornado cheese wheels, horribly unresponsive wep swap because of the GCD lockout applied to wep swap to prevent us from "accidentally swapping weps multiple times" (which was only an issue before because of the craptastic lag), PROX DET WHICH ONLY STRENGTHENED CHEESE WHEEL BALLS, Camo Hunter Caltrops, nerfed Crit Surge into the ground, stupidly designed Nirnhoned which wasn't fixed for 6 months even though it was a 'known issue', CP system that was poorly thought out and horribly biased in favor of Stamina, ect.

- 2.1 fixed some more bugs, but brought us crap like infinite dmg Trap Beast, INSTA CAST PROX DET WHICH ONCE AGAIN ONLY BENEFITED THE CHEESE WHEEL, deleted Former Emp passives from the game, utterly *** on build diversity once and for all by limiting BIS jewelry to 2 sets, also *** on Block/Dodge Roll/Bolt Escape, horrible changes to Battle Spirit which *** on things like Blazing Shield, GDB, Energy Orb, ect. And this isn't even getting into what IC did to PvP as a whole.

- 2.2 fixed some more bugs, but brought us 30% increased base Block cost stealth nerf which "may be 'fixed' by January", the worst gear grind ever with literally every new dropped set being bind on pickup, and apparently an inconsistent stamina skill cost bug too.

So yeah, by and large the total combat overhauls from 1.6 and 2.1 introduced numerous issues to PvP that simply did not have to happen. 1.5 had tons of flaws sure, but it was a progressive step in the right direction on most things, like skill balance and bringing stam builds up to par. Keeping the core combat and game mechanics from 1.5 and continuing to adjust individual skills/passives/gear while removing AOE caps would have been much better than the total overhauls of 1.6 and 2.1 that nobody even asked for.

Agreed ZOS Overcomlicate things i believe one of the main reasons they changed ult gen ones to nerf dks "A Class based around ultimates generating ultimates too quickly? becuase of idiots pew pewing us with their bows standing our cinder/banner/talons? LETS CHANGE A WHOLE GAME MECHANIC" They reinvent the wheel for the slightest of change Upurgeable oil cats needs to see a change IMO. The Battle spirit buff to certain heals needs to be looked definitely. And whenever they go to buff smaller groups with say proxy det they only make the ROFL Trains stronker. Oh and ZOS scared of making DKS Ult gain too much again just make it so you done generate ult from reflected stuff. Oh And you deserve a medal.

Nafirian · November 2015

Xinthisis wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

Hey Everyone this discussion will be about the state of the game and how ti has rapidly deteriorated both in PVE And PVP And Hopefully this will garner enough attention that ZOS Will listen "Hopefully"

So let us begin I played since beta bla bla bla still playing now. In my honest opinion this game was at its best in 1.5 and just needed a few changes to DK and a few other minor adjustments but that's IMO And the game would have been perfect so what went wrong and how did we get to where players are having to spoon feed developers on a podcast?

Well The AOE Cap Was the most BS thing that ever happened along with the champion system But we will move on to that later. AOE Caps stopped Well made it harder for smaller groups to wipe larger groups just because we didnt deal enough damage to kill them if they used barrier ETC ETC In 1.5 With dynamic ult gen and no AOE Caps the larger groups get destroyed by smaller BETTER and more organised players (Bomb Squads) Nowadays If 9 people run into a barrier rotating 24 man proxy det steel tornado ROFL Train they wont last very long even though the player are better The zergs should be powerful because they have numbers not because game mechanics make them stronger. ZOS Need to sort it out because zergs have far too much power in cyrodiil but that's what I think anyway.

Now for CP The CP cap could have been done better but i dont know how but i felt too lazy but hey at least they listened im not going to slander ZOS for listening to us keep it up plox The Champion point introduction took resource management and threw it out the window i took a month off when 1.6 dropped and i came back and i was 100-190 CP behind everyone else but i caught and was at the end of 1.7 i was at 524 CP But CP made managing resources FAAAAR too easy and gave such a massive advantage to those who had more but thats been fixed now everyone is at 501 but IMO they should have done it like this cap is at 800 CP and anyone below 400 CP is permanently enlightened until that 400 CP point then once you get over that instead of being enlightened once a day you get it 2 times a day from 400-600 or 700 CP But that's just my opinion anyways.

Now for Dynamic ult generation my favorite topic in the game currently ult gen is static so everyone earns ult at exactly the same rate unless you use heroic slash to gain minor heroism. So everyone earns ult at the same rate seems fair on paper yes? The larger zergs can pop barriers for my 4-12 man grp and not even care because they will have another one up or already up ready to pop again if needed this is what i loved about 1.5 smaller better groups witch hit these rofl trains got rewarded with more ult to use to kill these trains and i loved that mechanic and the larger group had numbers more healers and more damage but we were coordinated better and played better and we won because of that we were rewarded for that

Now that's just my opinion that's why i put it up we need to discuss whats gonna happen or ZOS are going to kill their own game without realizing it. ZOS Need to realize their pvp was so good and had so many players and if they bring back changed old mechanics they would bring back so many players and they would make that money we all know they want I know a few people wont agree with me but hey that's why its called a "Discussion" I shall now proceed to post jurra videos because he explains it better than i do. I remember when i used to run with this group and we would rek face now its just a sad dying game and we need to change it. WTB Old scales animation BTW Please ZOS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2RI5JR02o

Oh and who can forget these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

The videos bring tears to my eyes.. such beauty.

I cri ;_;

Ishammael · November 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

"Bring back 1.X pvp" isn't about literally reverting to the older game build and leaving it there, bugs and all intact. It's about pointing out how numerous aspects of PvP from gameplay mechanics to skill balance, ect have been done better in the past than they are now. Let's take a look:

- 1.1 had 0 cost infinite bat spam and even the caltrops negating siege dmg for a month, but it also had practically no lag.

- 1.2 had fixes for bats and caltrops, but it also had the 5 FPS bug for 2 weeks and the anti bot system update which forever destroyed any semblance of lag free PvP and still ruins the game to this day. Also introduced AOE caps on uncapped skills @ this time iirc.

- 1.4 still had uncapped Streak-Encase-Negate spam, health desync from snipe, one shotting Blazing Shields, but we still had ground oils and forward camps.

- 1.5 still had tons of bugs like the purge bug, health debuffs stacking to 100%, no more ground oils because of baddies QQing on the forums, capped ult gen on Streak, unbreakable vampire feed, unbreakable cc from knockdown + root combos (might have been an earlier patch), ect. But, we still had dynamic ult gen, we still had soft caps, we still had unpurgable oil cats, responsive wep swap, hybrid builds were still a thing, people didn't blow up in seconds from instagibs.

- 1.6 fixed lots of combat bugs and helped balance a number of skills + stam buffs sure, but it also brought us infinite dodge rollerblades, streak more than ever before, limited build diversity because of no soft caps which meant that stacking everything into primary stats was more rewarding, killed hybrid builds, nerfs to heavy armor, static ult gen, no more unpurgable oil, Steel Tornado cheese wheels, horribly unresponsive wep swap because of the GCD lockout applied to wep swap to prevent us from "accidentally swapping weps multiple times" (which was only an issue before because of the craptastic lag), PROX DET WHICH ONLY STRENGTHENED CHEESE WHEEL BALLS, Camo Hunter Caltrops, nerfed Crit Surge into the ground, stupidly designed Nirnhoned which wasn't fixed for 6 months even though it was a 'known issue', CP system that was poorly thought out and horribly biased in favor of Stamina, ect.

- 2.1 fixed some more bugs, but brought us crap like infinite dmg Trap Beast, INSTA CAST PROX DET WHICH ONCE AGAIN ONLY BENEFITED THE CHEESE WHEEL, deleted Former Emp passives from the game, utterly *** on build diversity once and for all by limiting BIS jewelry to 2 sets, also *** on Block/Dodge Roll/Bolt Escape, horrible changes to Battle Spirit which *** on things like Blazing Shield, GDB, Energy Orb, ect. And this isn't even getting into what IC did to PvP as a whole.

- 2.2 fixed some more bugs, but brought us 30% increased base Block cost stealth nerf which "may be 'fixed' by January", the worst gear grind ever with literally every new dropped set being bind on pickup, and apparently an inconsistent stamina skill cost bug too.

So yeah, by and large the total combat overhauls from 1.6 and 2.1 introduced numerous issues to PvP that simply did not have to happen. 1.5 had tons of flaws sure, but it was a progressive step in the right direction on most things, like skill balance and bringing stam builds up to par. Keeping the core combat and game mechanics from 1.5 and continuing to adjust individual skills/passives/gear while removing AOE caps would have been much better than the total overhauls of 1.6 and 2.1 that nobody even asked for.

This is a really good synopsis. Cheers!

Point is to recognize what each patch brought and screwed up at the same time.

Poxheart · November 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

So yeah, by and large the total combat overhauls from 1.6 and 2.1 introduced numerous issues to PvP that simply did not have to happen. 1.5 had tons of flaws sure, but it was a progressive step in the right direction on most things, like skill balance and bringing stam builds up to par. Keeping the core combat and game mechanics from 1.5 and continuing to adjust individual skills/passives/gear while removing AOE caps would have been much better than the total overhauls of 1.6 and 2.1 that nobody even asked for.

This is exactly what people mean when they say bring back 1.5. The core game mechanics were solid, there were just a few tweaks needed to balance things out & fix what was broken. I miss my 1.5 magicka NB and stamina DK so much.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

People saying 'minor adjustments' or 'a few tweaks' would have fixed 1.5 should put down the nostalgia glasses.

Etaniel · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

People saying 'minor adjustments' or 'a few tweaks' would have fixed 1.5 should put down the nostalgia glasses.

You should take off your crap-tainted glasses Kriss

Lava_Croft · November 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

People saying 'minor adjustments' or 'a few tweaks' would have fixed 1.5 should put down the nostalgia glasses.

You should take off your crap-tainted glasses Kriss

There were huge problems in 1.5 that would not have been solved with some minor adjustments. For example ask anyone who has been playing a Stamina build about the 'minor adjustments' needed in 1.5 to make their playstyle viable. I loved 1.5, but pretending like it was very close to perfection is just deluding yourself.

Nafirian · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

People saying 'minor adjustments' or 'a few tweaks' would have fixed 1.5 should put down the nostalgia glasses.

You should take off your crap-tainted glasses Kriss

There were huge problems in 1.5 that would not have been solved with some minor adjustments. For example ask anyone who has been playing a Stamina build about the 'minor adjustments' needed in 1.5 to make their playstyle viable. I loved 1.5, but pretending like it was very close to perfection is just deluding yourself.

But it was better than the 60 man ball up steel tornado barrier roatating proxy det immortality we have int he current patch 1.5 Was so much better and things needed to be changed but ZOS Gone fcked it up

Raizin · November 2015

Nafirian wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

People saying 'minor adjustments' or 'a few tweaks' would have fixed 1.5 should put down the nostalgia glasses.

You should take off your crap-tainted glasses Kriss

There were huge problems in 1.5 that would not have been solved with some minor adjustments. For example ask anyone who has been playing a Stamina build about the 'minor adjustments' needed in 1.5 to make their playstyle viable. I loved 1.5, but pretending like it was very close to perfection is just deluding yourself.

But it was better than the 60 man ball up steel tornado barrier roatating proxy det immortality we have int he current patch 1.5 Was so much better and things needed to be changed but ZOS Gone fcked it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

Nafirian · November 2015

Raizin wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

People saying 'minor adjustments' or 'a few tweaks' would have fixed 1.5 should put down the nostalgia glasses.

You should take off your crap-tainted glasses Kriss

There were huge problems in 1.5 that would not have been solved with some minor adjustments. For example ask anyone who has been playing a Stamina build about the 'minor adjustments' needed in 1.5 to make their playstyle viable. I loved 1.5, but pretending like it was very close to perfection is just deluding yourself.

But it was better than the 60 man ball up steel tornado barrier roatating proxy det immortality we have int he current patch 1.5 Was so much better and things needed to be changed but ZOS Gone fcked it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

Go away angry joe >:O