A Glimmer Of Hope For The Game

Nafirian · November 2015

Hey Everyone this discussion will be about the state of the game and how ti has rapidly deteriorated both in PVE And PVP And Hopefully this will garner enough attention that ZOS Will listen "Hopefully"

So let us begin I played since beta bla bla bla still playing now. In my honest opinion this game was at its best in 1.5 and just needed a few changes to DK and a few other minor adjustments but that's IMO And the game would have been perfect so what went wrong and how did we get to where players are having to spoon feed developers on a podcast?

Well The AOE Cap Was the most BS thing that ever happened along with the champion system But we will move on to that later. AOE Caps stopped Well made it harder for smaller groups to wipe larger groups just because we didnt deal enough damage to kill them if they used barrier ETC ETC In 1.5 With dynamic ult gen and no AOE Caps the larger groups get destroyed by smaller BETTER and more organised players (Bomb Squads) Nowadays If 9 people run into a barrier rotating 24 man proxy det steel tornado ROFL Train they wont last very long even though the player are better The zergs should be powerful because they have numbers not because game mechanics make them stronger. ZOS Need to sort it out because zergs have far too much power in cyrodiil but that's what I think anyway.

Now for CP The CP cap could have been done better but i dont know how but i felt too lazy but hey at least they listened im not going to slander ZOS for listening to us keep it up plox

The Champion point introduction took resource management and threw it out the window i took a month off when 1.6 dropped and i came back and i was 100-190 CP behind everyone else but i caught and was at the end of 1.7 i was at 524 CP But CP made managing resources FAAAAR too easy and gave such a massive advantage to those who had more but thats been fixed now everyone is at 501 but IMO they should have done it like this cap is at 800 CP and anyone below 400 CP is permanently enlightened until that 400 CP point then once you get over that instead of being enlightened once a day you get it 2 times a day from 400-600 or 700 CP But that's just my opinion anyways.

Now for Dynamic ult generation my favorite topic in the game currently ult gen is static so everyone earns ult at exactly the same rate unless you use heroic slash to gain minor heroism. So everyone earns ult at the same rate seems fair on paper yes? The larger zergs can pop barriers for my 4-12 man grp and not even care because they will have another one up or already up ready to pop again if needed this is what i loved about 1.5 smaller better groups witch hit these rofl trains got rewarded with more ult to use to kill these trains and i loved that mechanic and the larger group had numbers more healers and more damage but we were coordinated better and played better and we won because of that we were rewarded for that

Now that's just my opinion that's why i put it up we need to discuss whats gonna happen or ZOS are going to kill their own game without realizing it. ZOS Need to realize their pvp was so good and had so many players and if they bring back changed old mechanics they would bring back so many players and they would make that money we all know they want I know a few people wont agree with me but hey that's why its called a "Discussion" I shall now proceed to post jurra videos because he explains it better than i do. I remember when i used to run with this group and we would rek face now its just a sad dying game and we need to change it.

WTB Old scales animation BTW Please ZOS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2RI5JR02o

Oh and who can forget these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8_KGHqmO4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

Master_Kas · November 2015

Nafirian wrote: »

Hey Everyone this discussion will be about the state of the game and how ti has rapidly deteriorated both in PVE And PVP And Hopefully this will garner enough attention that ZOS Will listen "Hopefully"

So let us begin I played since beta bla bla bla still playing now. In my honest opinion this game was at its best in 1.5 and just needed a few changes to DK and a few other minor adjustments but that's IMO And the game would have been perfect so what went wrong and how did we get to where players are having to spoon feed developers on a podcast?

Well The AOE Was the most BS thing that ever happened along with the champion system But we will move on to that later. AOE Caps stopped Well made it harder for smaller groups to wipe larger groups just because we didnt deal enough damage to kill them if they used barrier ETC ETC In 1.5 With dynamic ult gen and no AOE Caps the larger groups get destroyed by smaller BETTER and more organised players (Bomb Squads) Nowadays If 9 people run into a barrier rotating 24 man proxy det steel tornado ROFL Train they wont last very long even though the player are better The zergs should be powerful because they have numbers not because game mechanics make them stronger. ZOS Need to sort it out because zergs have far too much power in cyrodiil but that's what I think anyway.

Now for CP The CP cap could have been done better but i dont know how but i felt too lazy but hey at least they listened im not going to slander ZOS for listening to us keep it up plox The Champion point introduction took resource management and threw it out the window i took a month off when 1.6 dropped and i came back and i was 100-190 CP behind everyone else but i caught and was at the end of 1.7 i was at 524 CP But CP made managing resources FAAAAR too easy and gave such a massive advantage to those who had more but thats been fixed now everyone is at 501 but IMO they should have done it like this cap is at 800 CP and anyone below 400 CP is permanently enlightened until that 400 CP point then once you get over that instead of being enlightened once a day you get it 2 times a day from 400-600 or 700 CP But that's just my opinion anyways.

Now for Dynamic ult generation my favorite topic in the game currently ult gen is static so everyone earns ult at exactly the same rate unless you use heroic slash to gain minor heroism. So everyone earns ult at the same rate seems fair on paper yes? The larger zergs can pop barriers for my 4-12 man grp and not even care because they will have another one up or already up ready to pop again if needed this is what i loved about 1.5 smaller better groups witch hit these rofl trains got rewarded with more ult to use to kill these trains and i loved that mechanic and the larger group had numbers more healers and more damage but we were coordinated better and played better and we won because of that we were rewarded for that

Now that's just my opinion that's why i put it up we need to discuss whats gonna happen or ZOS are going to kill their own game without realizing it. ZOS Need to realize their pvp was so good and had so many players and if they bring back changed old mechanics they would bring back so many players and they would make that money we all know they want I know a few people wont agree with me but hey that's why its called a "Discussion" I shall now proceed to post jurra videos because he explains it better than i do. I remember when i used to run with this group and we would rek face now its just a sad dying game and we need to change it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2RI5JR02o

Oh and who can forget these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

Not a trollmeme. I'm serious, just to tired to write a long reply ^^

Nafirian · November 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

Hey Everyone this discussion will be about the state of the game and how ti has rapidly deteriorated both in PVE And PVP And Hopefully this will garner enough attention that ZOS Will listen "Hopefully"

So let us begin I played since beta bla bla bla still playing now. In my honest opinion this game was at its best in 1.5 and just needed a few changes to DK and a few other minor adjustments but that's IMO And the game would have been perfect so what went wrong and how did we get to where players are having to spoon feed developers on a podcast?

Well The AOE Was the most BS thing that ever happened along with the champion system But we will move on to that later. AOE Caps stopped Well made it harder for smaller groups to wipe larger groups just because we didnt deal enough damage to kill them if they used barrier ETC ETC In 1.5 With dynamic ult gen and no AOE Caps the larger groups get destroyed by smaller BETTER and more organised players (Bomb Squads) Nowadays If 9 people run into a barrier rotating 24 man proxy det steel tornado ROFL Train they wont last very long even though the player are better The zergs should be powerful because they have numbers not because game mechanics make them stronger. ZOS Need to sort it out because zergs have far too much power in cyrodiil but that's what I think anyway.

Now for CP The CP cap could have been done better but i dont know how but i felt too lazy but hey at least they listened im not going to slander ZOS for listening to us keep it up plox The Champion point introduction took resource management and threw it out the window i took a month off when 1.6 dropped and i came back and i was 100-190 CP behind everyone else but i caught and was at the end of 1.7 i was at 524 CP But CP made managing resources FAAAAR too easy and gave such a massive advantage to those who had more but thats been fixed now everyone is at 501 but IMO they should have done it like this cap is at 800 CP and anyone below 400 CP is permanently enlightened until that 400 CP point then once you get over that instead of being enlightened once a day you get it 2 times a day from 400-600 or 700 CP But that's just my opinion anyways.

Now for Dynamic ult generation my favorite topic in the game currently ult gen is static so everyone earns ult at exactly the same rate unless you use heroic slash to gain minor heroism. So everyone earns ult at the same rate seems fair on paper yes? The larger zergs can pop barriers for my 4-12 man grp and not even care because they will have another one up or already up ready to pop again if needed this is what i loved about 1.5 smaller better groups witch hit these rofl trains got rewarded with more ult to use to kill these trains and i loved that mechanic and the larger group had numbers more healers and more damage but we were coordinated better and played better and we won because of that we were rewarded for that

Now that's just my opinion that's why i put it up we need to discuss whats gonna happen or ZOS are going to kill their own game without realizing it. ZOS Need to realize their pvp was so good and had so many players and if they bring back changed old mechanics they would bring back so many players and they would make that money we all know they want I know a few people wont agree with me but hey that's why its called a "Discussion" I shall now proceed to post jurra videos because he explains it better than i do. I remember when i used to run with this group and we would rek face now its just a sad dying game and we need to change it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twdk7CCUk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2RI5JR02o

Oh and who can forget these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

Not a trollmeme. I'm serious, just to tired to write a long reply ^^

Servers down i cant level Baby Miruku and Fallout 4 refuses to download ;_; so i did this hopefully ZOS will listen

and thanks Kas

Master_Kas · November 2015

Nafirian wrote: »

Servers down i cant level Baby Miruku and Fallout 4 refuses to download ;_; so i did this hopefully ZOS will listen and thanks Kas

Np. It feels like ZOS are ignoring these kind of suggestions tough.

Also want to level Cpt November but ZOS. 4-5 hours for a 150mb update

Jules · November 2015

Agree with every single thing you stated here. I hope someone listens.

Wollust · November 2015

Heh, as if ZoS would care. They have shown more than enough that they'll always make whatever floats through their heads, without thinking about the consequences.

Fyaal · November 2015

Jules wrote: »

Agree with every single thing you stated here. I hope someone listens.

For sure. Ult gen and AOE cap need to go back to what they were.

And buff DKs.

Derra · November 2015

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

Dyride · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

Yeah, I think a lot of people are applying a selective filter when they say 1.5 was balanced in any way. Bows oneshots? endless swarm DKs?

No thanks. But arguing to bring back something we remember fondly cause we were on top of the broken meta isn't the way forward. Things are going to have to change moving forward from the current meta.

There are a lot of things that could be fixed.

I think AoE caps could be a double edged sword, small groups need some love, but removing caps could just allow organized guild raids to take on 4x their number with impunity.

However they need to fix how many calculations it requires in the very least, I would prefer seeing full damage on first 12 targets hit, then half damage for the next 24 people. Maybe removing them is the answer. You can't penalize people for wanting to play with friends though.

Dynamic Ulti gen would be nice too, but lack of crit resistance changes the equation completely.

Nafirian · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

Thanks for having a different opinion and yes it eas stupid everyone could be tanky with shield it was stupid and i liked 1.5 but im not asking for a COMPLETE Roll back but some game mechanics need to be chaanged

Efficient · November 2015

If only ZoS listened to the thousands of threads before this saying the same thing. Guess what, they don't care. Game is already dead in my opinion unfortunately. The thought of the potential is there, but how long are you going to wait ?

If they cant even log on the forums after a year of constructive criticism to say "We are looking into the removal of AoE Caps" or ANYTHING that the vast amount of the PvP community wants, what makes you think they are going to fix it anytime soon?

Sublime · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

I don't think 1.5 was perfect but I feel there were more options back then. Apart from that S&B could have been tweaked quite easily. Personally I'd like t9 have the option to choos between damage and sustain, unfortunately neither 1.8 nor 1.5 really had this choice.

Nafirian · November 2015

Efficient wrote: »

If only ZoS listened to the thousands of threads before this saying the same thing. Guess what, they don't care. Game is already dead in my opinion unfortunately. The thought of the potential is there, but how long are you going to wait ?

If they cant even log on the forums after a year of constructive criticism to say "We are looking into the removal of AoE Caps" or ANYTHING that the vast amount of the PvP community wants, what makes you think they are going to fix it anytime soon?

#GottaBelieve and if not? CU Is coming soon then ZOS are left witha dead carcass of a game and we are all playing BDO Or CU And saying "Ah man remember ESO? Ye was a good game for the first 5 patches"

Jules · November 2015

Fyaal wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Agree with every single thing you stated here. I hope someone listens.

For sure. Ult gen and AOE cap need to go back to what they were.

And buff DKs.

FYAAL! are you sure DK's need a buff? They're already best crafters NA

ToRelax · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Am i the only one who did not like the whole S&B on every build 1.5 sustain meta at all?

I´d take anything (even the current patch which is leaning in that direction again) over 1.5 really.

Putting a spell damage bonus on dualwield and/or staff would have solved that. Destro/Resto was already viable. And the sustain meta was much needed because with everyone being able to heal and no skillcooldowns, fights would have become pretty boring (surprise, exactly what happened).

Lava_Croft · November 2015

Nostalgia glasses are a powerful tool.

Nafirian · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Nostalgia glasses are a powerful tool.

FENGRUSH · November 2015

Change is needed. Commitment from ZOS to make changes is needed.

Ishammael · November 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Change is needed. Commitment from ZOS to make changes is needed.

And communication with discussion about proposed changes.

A "road ahead" would be nice.

Efficient · November 2015

A "Road Ahead" ....

Year 2016 - Eric Wrobel will make a forum account.

Year 2017 - Eric Wrobel will read and maybe post on the forums?

Year 2018 - Eric Wrobel will be convinced we have a point?

Year 2019 - Removal of AoE caps?

Nafirian · November 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Change is needed. Commitment from ZOS to make changes is needed.

Exactly but they show lack of interest and its kind of depressing.

Nafirian · November 2015

Efficient wrote: »

A "Road Ahead" ....

Year 2016 - Eric Wrobel will make a forum account.

Year 2017 - Eric Wrobel will read and maybe post on the forums?

Year 2018 - Eric Wrobel will be convinced we have a point?

Year 2019 - Removal of AoE caps?

2018 Everyone is on CU Or BDO And ZOS are kicking a dead horse

Nafirian · November 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230234/do-you-truthfully-enjoy-pvp-in-its-current-state/p1 My friend has done a poll and the first option explains it all also @FENGRUSH If you could drop us that AOE CAP Poll it would be perfect thanks.

ginoboehm · November 2015

I don't get 1.7/8 at all if they wanted damage reduction and a more sustained fight they took the wrong actions if they wanted a less zergy gameplay we are sooo far away from that goal too. So what is the direction here? Cp are a issue (endless sustain + high damage + imbalance between magicka and stamina) and IMO that they don't really play their game as a cookie cutter so they don't test the limits there

CtrlAltDlt · November 2015

Jules wrote: »

Fyaal wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Agree with every single thing you stated here. I hope someone listens.

For sure. Ult gen and AOE cap need to go back to what they were.

And buff DKs.

FYAAL! are you sure DK's need a buff? They're already best crafters NA

Rofl

Rook_Master · November 2015

Someone fantasizing about a rollback to 1.5 is a 'glimmer of hope'?

Seems like most of these people nostalgic about 1.5 are wearing rose-tinted glasses that cause them to forget about unkillable DKs that can spam ultimates as fast as normal skills, amongst other stupid stuff like one-shotting Snipes, etc.

This game has come a long way since 1.5 It's not perfect, but it's definitely better.

ToRelax · November 2015

Nafirian wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230234/do-you-truthfully-enjoy-pvp-in-its-current-state/p1 My friend has done a poll and the first option explains it all also @FENGRUSH If you could drop us that AOE CAP Poll it would be perfect thanks.

Actually I guess I'd go play CU as soon as beta starts, whenever possible, instead of ESO. Probably less buggy, too.

Wollust · November 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Nafirian wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230234/do-you-truthfully-enjoy-pvp-in-its-current-state/p1 My friend has done a poll and the first option explains it all also @FENGRUSH If you could drop us that AOE CAP Poll it would be perfect thanks.

Actually I guess I'd go play CU as soon as beta starts, whenever possible, instead of ESO. Probably less buggy, too.

I am very sure you won't be the only one.. I think Cyrodiil will lose quite a bunch of players when the CU beta starts, simply because people are tired of the never ending lag and the incompetence of the dev team.

Alomar · November 2015

There's been dozens of threads with hundreds of posts containing lengthy and constructive criticism and points about where this game could be and should be at this point. I remember similar posts, obviously the subject matter was different, in beta a year before launch. Nothing from those beta threads were ever taken seriously and as someone whose been here from that point actively I don't think it's logical to assume any longer that they have the interest or are capable of creating real change in this game's pvp systems.

What they do is band aid patches/fixes that almost always break something else or worsen performance in Cyrodiil, this can be seen from launch to this point. ZOS's direction both in pve and pvp of this game has been in writing since before launch with Craiglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium, etc. being their list of goals and objectives from which they spend considerable time coding and implementing. These patches/dlc's/expansions and the months the PC dev's took off to finish a year late console version is where 90% if not more of their effort/time is placed. This is a blatant sign of a developer who simply doesn't have their heart in their work, whether the cause is from orders upstairs or simply a general consensus.

You need no clearer indication of this than the official response, not that we needed one from past experience, of ZOS being unwilling or incapable of addressing class balancing issues (DK) for 6 months. Along with features that were "broken" in ZOS's mind like forward camps and mercenaries, which logical fixes have been suggested by players and dev's yet never actually implemented. This is beyond unheard of in terms on an mmo where pvp is a crucial part of it's endgame.

The answer simply is that ZOS could of dedicated extra developers, time, and resources over the past 2 years at any point into improving/fixing existing content or adding unplanned (not the list of pve expansions/dlc's listed above) content to improve pvp. This would of created a positive atmosphere that would of been capable of holding pvpers(most are gone at this pont) until future content that might take longer due to the time spent re-addressing existing issues and not working on their "planned pve expansions". Let's be honest here there has been very little additions to pvp other than minor patches that almost always make things worse; the exceptions are the removal of forward camps, removal of mercenaries, added cold fire siege, and the Imperial City (which I do not consider a pvp expansion due to the way they implemented it and the lack of pvp features).

Yet, this hasn't happened to this point so I don't think anyone who has been playing from launch can reasonably keep saying "believe" or "have faith", those thinking reasonably view ESO as nothing but a temporary home until BDO, CU, or the next mmo with significant open world pvp comes around.

Nafirian · November 2015

Alomar wrote: »

There's been dozens of threads with hundreds of posts containing lengthy and constructive criticism and points about where this game could be and should be at this point. I remember similar posts, obviously the subject matter was different, in beta a year before launch. Nothing from those beta threads were ever taken seriously and as someone whose been here from that point actively I don't think it's logical to assume any longer that they have the interest or are capable of creating real change in this game's pvp systems.

What they do is band aid patches/fixes that almost always break something else or worsen performance in Cyrodiil, this can be seen from launch to this point. ZOS's direction both in pve and pvp of this game has been in writing since before launch with Craiglorn, Imperial City, Orsinium, etc. being their list of goals and objectives from which they spend considerable time coding and implementing. These patches/dlc's/expansions and the months the PC dev's took off to finish a year late console version is where 90% if not more of their effort/time is placed. This is a blatant sign of a developer who simply doesn't have their heart in their work, whether the cause is from orders upstairs or simply a general consensus.

You need no clearer indication of this than the official response, not that we needed one from past experience, of ZOS being unwilling or incapable of addressing class balancing issues (DK) for 6 months. Along with features that were "broken" in ZOS's mind like forward camps and mercenaries, which logical fixes have been suggested by players and dev's yet never actually implemented. This is beyond unheard of in terms on an mmo where pvp is a crucial part of it's endgame.

The answer simply is that ZOS could of dedicated extra developers, time, and resources over the past 2 years at any point into improving/fixing existing content or adding unplanned (not the list of pve expansions/dlc's listed above) content to improve pvp. This would of created a positive atmosphere that would of been capable of holding pvpers(most are gone at this pont) until future content that might take longer due to the time spent re-addressing existing issues and not working on their "planned pve expansions". Let's be honest here there has been very little additions to pvp other than minor patches that almost always make things worse; the exceptions are the removal of forward camps, removal of mercenaries, added cold fire siege, and the Imperial City (which I do not consider a pvp expansion due to the way they implemented it and the lack of pvp features).

Yet, this hasn't happened to this point so I don't think anyone who has been playing from launch can reasonably keep saying "believe" or "have faith", those thinking reasonably view ESO as nothing but a temporary home until BDO, CU, or the next mmo with significant open world pvp comes around.

Yea but i gave it shot and if they dont listen then they dont listen then we move on and ZOS look like plebs while we rofl at the name shiney game with actual devs.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

I think the biggest problem with ZOS at the moment is that 97% of their employees seem to be artists, 2% gameplay designers and 1% programmer. The artists deliver good work, the gameplay designers cannot change a few numbers in a spreadsheet without breaking a dozen skills and the programmer, well, I pity his poor, doomed soul.

At this moment all I expect from ZOS is to finish* the content that was meant to be a part of the game at launch and then let it slowly dwindle while trying to milk the Crown Store.

*This means cut everything that's relatively complicated and release it. See IC.