Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

And the concept of cornering the market and forcing players to pay higher prices is an absurd and misinformed understanding of how the in game market works. People cant just buy everything up, slap a price on it and think people are going to pay for it because its all thats available. If the asking price is too high people wont be able to pay it and the seller will have to drop the price. And regardless of how often someone buys low and sells high. They arent going to catch them all.

That sounds like a good argument. People wont be able to pay the inflated prices, so the sellers have to drop the price.

Sadly, there is one piece of the puzzle you do not see.

Here's a little personal experience I have made a few month back:

At that time the highest selling items were VR12 warlock rings. They usually came in blue, though there were rumors that they actually exist in purple. Through dumb luck and some searching I managed to collect three of these purple rings. And since there were people repeatedly telling me that "those don't exist and everybody can fake items in chat", I decided to put the 3rd one up for sale. I had no real use for it, so I listed it in a guild store at a (at that time) completely insane amount of gold so I could show that it exists.

During the time the item was listed, I was contacted multiple times, by multiple players who all said the following:

"I really want that item. I really don't have the resources to pay for it in game. However, I am willing to reimburse you with RL cash."

And we are not talking about 3 bucks here.

After the ring sat in the guild store for 3 weeks, I sold it through the guild store for the initially set insane amount of in game gold.

I hope this shows that the people on the "no auction house" side of the fence are not all "misinformed". I'm sure most of them have made similar experiences in this or other games.

Of course I cannot fully predict the effect of a global AH or any kind of global search system. And what I have written above only applies to items that are "controllable". That means end-game essential, BoE and very rare / very hard to get.

But I really have to warn you guys:
There are people around that will exploit the system to the maximum extent possible. On the PC they will be using add-ons, macros and any other kind of tools that will make sure they "catch them all".
And there will be people who value their RL time more than $ and therefore are willing to P2W.

The current system is not convenient, but it is the same for everyone. Leaving good opportunities for everyone to get some nice deals.
Making the system convenient makes it convenient for everyone including gold sellers, botters, macro users. These people are the problem. And now guess on which side of the fence they are standing.

Some Disclaimers:
1) No one in their right mind would defend the current basic UI for the trade system. But that has little to do with the underlying trade system.

2) I cannot speak for the state of the trade system on consoles, they seem to have other problems (like bullying GMs).

3) If ZOS balances the drop rates and makes everything BoP, then there would be very few controllable items left. In that case I don't care anymore.

4) Thread number 782 on the topic. I tried to be more constructive.

Lamiai wrote: »

this thread yet again!

Because this is still an issue, and will continue to be an issue until they wise up and add some sort of AH system. It's a simple matter of convenience at this point, as all the other arguments against one are happening ingame anyway.

Hell even old, classic Everquest was more convenient 15 years ago. We all gathered in the EC tunnel.

ZOS won't implement an easier to use system because the current trader system is a time sink, another grind, another artificial method of keeping people in the game longer. To me, and others, who only have a few hours a week to play, it's just a time waster.

Groggolo wrote: »

Title should say it all, but a system that forces players to travel across a huge map to visit guild merchants that most of the times have very scarce inventories, and re apply every time the search filters, is just a horrible design.

I want to use my time in the game to have fun, not to endlessly search for the equipment I need.

On top of this, on the forum it is not possible to make trading posts, and on Ps4 there is no in game chat....what is the rationale behind this, make player frustrated and angry?

Create at least a global list of what all the guild merchants hold, so I can make a global search and see which merchant has the item i want, I do not mind then traveling there to buy it.

I am having serious doubts about the competencies of the designers behind something like this....

Well said.

I think Zeni is too stubborn to fix it-- they don't want to admit it's poor design-- and/or they don't want to expend the resources fixing it.

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EDS604 wrote: »

also, global AH is a auction bot magnet. in archeage we had bots standing at the auctioneers, buying everything automatically that was under a certain price. tradeguilds make it hard for bots to control the economy.
to be fair, i am rlly happy with the trading system here in eso

This guy is correct. The current design is no doubt clunky and not very user friendly but it does achieve it's primary purpose. How many people are getting spammed by Chinese gold sellers? Every MMO that has a global AH has to deal with Chinese gold sellers who nonstop spam global chat and your inbox with spam.

Eso's trading system is a very poorly thought out system which is actually consuming itself. Given enough time it will collapse on its own.

ntheogenic wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

And the concept of cornering the market and forcing players to pay higher prices is an absurd and misinformed understanding of how the in game market works. People cant just buy everything up, slap a price on it and think people are going to pay for it because its all thats available. If the asking price is too high people wont be able to pay it and the seller will have to drop the price. And regardless of how often someone buys low and sells high. They arent going to catch them all.

That sounds like a good argument. People wont be able to pay the inflated prices, so the sellers have to drop the price.

Sadly, there is one piece of the puzzle you do not see.

Here's a little personal experience I have made a few month back:

At that time the highest selling items were VR12 warlock rings. They usually came in blue, though there were rumors that they actually exist in purple. Through dumb luck and some searching I managed to collect three of these purple rings. And since there were people repeatedly telling me that "those don't exist and everybody can fake items in chat", I decided to put the 3rd one up for sale. I had no real use for it, so I listed it in a guild store at a (at that time) completely insane amount of gold so I could show that it exists.

During the time the item was listed, I was contacted multiple times, by multiple players who all said the following:

"I really want that item. I really don't have the resources to pay for it in game. However, I am willing to reimburse you with RL cash."

And we are not talking about 3 bucks here.

After the ring sat in the guild store for 3 weeks, I sold it through the guild store for the initially set insane amount of in game gold.

I hope this shows that the people on the "no auction house" side of the fence are not all "misinformed". I'm sure most of them have made similar experiences in this or other games.

Of course I cannot fully predict the effect of a global AH or any kind of global search system. And what I have written above only applies to items that are "controllable". That means end-game essential, BoE and very rare / very hard to get.

But I really have to warn you guys:
There are people around that will exploit the system to the maximum extent possible. On the PC they will be using add-ons, macros and any other kind of tools that will make sure they "catch them all".
And there will be people who value their RL time more than $ and therefore are willing to P2W.

The current system is not convenient, but it is the same for everyone. Leaving good opportunities for everyone to get some nice deals.
Making the system convenient makes it convenient for everyone including gold sellers, botters, macro users. These people are the problem. And now guess on which side of the fence they are standing.

Some Disclaimers:
1) No one in their right mind would defend the current basic UI for the trade system. But that has little to do with the underlying trade system.

2) I cannot speak for the state of the trade system on consoles, they seem to have other problems (like bullying GMs).

3) If ZOS balances the drop rates and makes everything BoP, then there would be very few controllable items left. In that case I don't care anymore.

4) Thread number 782 on the topic. I tried to be more constructive.

And how much gold did you possibly lose by that item staying on the trader for as long as it did at that price? The argument can be made that that slot could of been cleared much earlier at a lower price to make room for another item. Anyone playing the market doesnt want something sitting on the exchange for too long. Its not beneficial at all.

I never played the market until SWTOR, and havent since, I would buy up the Cartel Boxes with my Sub and any extra money I had to throw around. I had two characters devoted to selling items on the market. Both had their Cargo Bays maxed out to hold onto items meant for the AH. I could only sell so much on the market at a time. So the Cargo Bays were often full. I often bought the Cartel Boxes in bulk because there was a better chance of better drops from it that would be more valued on the AH. If my AH slots were full and my Cargo Bay was full that meant I wasnt moving product. This meant that every hour, every day that went without something being sold that I was losing out on Credits. So it was very important for me to sell these items at a price that was reasonable but still drew a decent profit.

Anyone playing the market are playing it from the perspective of a Business Owner. And a business can only continue to be successful if its moving product. In games where RL money does not have a direct impact on In Game Money (Like here in ESO) the behavior is buying and selling between players.

The guy playing the market shops the market for what some would call a deal. This is a deal for a customer but a hit to everyone else not selling at that low of a price. That item may be worth much more but because individuals dont care or simply want it out of their inventory. They mark it down far lower than its market value. A lot of people on games with AHs will scroll through similar items and decide to put their price at the marked up value that most of them hold. Because they understand that thats the established value and they want to make a profit. Theres a lot of things that go into what creates the value of an item from the legwork to the rarity and the pricing game of selling items at differing prices until they find an asking price that players are in general willing to pay. Even here with Guild Traders there is still a behavior of items being asked for at a general asking price across the board regardless of where you go. Youll still get anomalies where players will put something far too low or ask for too high a price. But I bet if you went around looking at the price of normal Motifs youd find regardless of where you went that the general asking price was the same or close to it. On PS4 Motifs have settled into a 500 G asking price. Regardless of where you go this is the price you will generally find. Some still sell them cheaper and some still ask for a higher price. But the overall trend is in the same small window. Compare that to the Imperial Motif that can go for upwards to 50k G.

Often enough the anomalies of too low or too high asking prices are from people not playing the market. They dont know much about the worth of the items theyre posting and simply assign whatever price they think they want. You can see this behavior when people go to sell their items at a Pawn Shop. They often think an item is worth more than it is and ask for that price.

As for your example. The reasons for how long it took you to offload that item could possibly be tied to the fact that your item was in a mini-AH amongst hundreds of other mini-AHs. It took much longer for a buyer willing/capable to pay the asking price to get around to finding your listing. With a single Global AH that item might of moved within the first day of its listing. Especially if its as rare as you feel it is. As people are going to be looking to buy something hard to come by. Unfortunately the way the current system works its only beneficial to anyone constantly winning bids in highly trafficked areas. Which means quite a bit of potential deals and profitable rare items are going unseen and unsold.

OXI to the AH!
Nein to the AH!
No to the AH!

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Global AH isnt so good as people think, people buy cheap and sell high. Rich gets richer and poor gets poorer. Rich people gets full control of the AH, and then you're in deep trouble. For example, one guy buy all vr15-16 mats for 100k, put them back as 150k. Is this what you really want?

Welcome to Capitalism!

A global AH isnt without its inherent problems, but the current system in ESO is not user friendly, and severely limits the number of potential buyers that will actually see the item.

Perhaps an AH that limits purchases to only items the character thats shopping can use?

Its just an idea, and I certainly dont claim to have all the answers.
That said, in my opinion, the current system is tedious, not user friendly, and could use improvement.

Didnt FF14 try the same type of vendors in version 1.0? Or at least something similar?

ZOS_MatM wrote: »

Greetings,

This thread has just been moderated please keep on topic and do not resort to personal attacks. We understand that sometimes tempers rise, but it is never acceptable to resort to rude comments and insults. This goes for rude comments and insults directed at other community members, and ZeniMax Online Studios employees alike.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

Thank you.

When I see a thread with a "Z" icon against it I get that Xmas morning, childlike glee swirling around in my tummy. I close my eyes just after clicking on the icon and prey that what I am going to find is something that I would consider community engagement. I wonder if it will be someone coming along to say "You know what, great idea thats going on the "list" for sure" or even something like "When will you guys get it? This is how it was designed, it pleases many but not all however it is our vision for the game and there are no plans to change it, stop flogging it man, its dead!! <insert obligatory horse flogging image here>" but sadly not, it is just another cookie cutter, lazy attempt at moderation. Another shred of my hope peels off and dies.

Thankfully it does not prevent my enjoyment of the game! Off to Wrothgar, hurrah!!!

Artfu1D0dger wrote: »

u gotta realize that the more 'convenient' a trading system is, the more prone to manipulation it is. just a good example I played Evony for a very short time and they had a pretty neat lil bid/sell open trading system on their 4 resources (stone, wood, etc.). I cornered the stone market for a couple reason and was a billionaire before my week amnesty was up. i quit after about a month because it was just way too easy. i used to be a day trader so an open trading system like that isn't fair with players like myself

my only real big complaint about this trading system is that it doesn't save your last search criteria....having to constantly reset the search criteria everytime u stop at a trader is f'in garbage and could be fixed with like 5 lines of code probably...

might also be convenient to have maybe 2 or 3 search presets u can set to make it easier to travel around looking for a few certain items; not sure i like a centralized trading AH....this will invite the usual big arsehole market manipulators; the separate traders might be a little inconvenient, but that inconvenience is what keeps the basterds out

The current system is just as easily manipulated. Those who have the money to throw around for a Guild Trader week to week have a monopoly on what is sold and what the prices are set at. If youre not in that Guild, your items go unlisted and unsold. If youre a Guild that isnt raking in millions of G from your little location out in the middle of no where. Your items take longer to sell and at a far cheaper price than what they might of gone for if they were in a high trafficked area. Which means your Guild will unlikely ever have a chance at the higher trafficked areas.

If you think that people playing the market in this game arent shopping those out of the way locations to then turn those items onto the high trafficked areas at a much higher price. Youre kidding yourself. Thats exactly what people playing the market are going to do. Theyre going to follow the deals, because thats where the profit can be made.

I seriously doubt that you alone cornered the market on something in a game in a single week of play. The number of buyers and sellers had to be so low and the asking price so under priced that I have to question the validity of this response. A Day Trader and someone moving actual product are two completely different things. There is no limit of how many stocks and such you can hold onto. There is no limit to an inventory or bank space for a Day Trader.

In a video game with limited space for product both on the market and in your bank/inventory space. Theres definitely a need to get that product out the door and in the hands of buyers. The ONLY way that your story plays out the way you portrayed it is if there was no limit to how much you could post to the AH there. Which is a flaw in the system for that game but not a flaw in general for most AHs in other games where a limit exists.

The only change I'd like to see is making the search easier, on console you can only sort by price or by time. This makes searching for a recipe or a specific piece of equipment far more time consuming than should be necessary. Its like a mini game where you scroll at the fastest speed and try and focus on the one area of the screen to see if your item pops up.