laced wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

laced wrote: »

They are not removing veteran ranks. They increased the veteran levels -after- this discussion started

I don't see any rank above V16. What are you talking about?

The veteran level cap was not always v 16, and the discussion of removal of veteran ranks took place before they upped the level cap to 16 and decreased exp required to level up in veteran ranks. The chances of them removing them are pretty much 0.

True that, but they said they would remove them between Orsinium and the next DLC.

I may be willing to budge on having the player scale to zones beyond Coldharbor (as someone else suggested), but I do think that at least some structure is healthy for a gaming experience.
Levels 1 - 50 are ideal for introducing new and developing player substantially into the game in a structured manner. It also provides a clear, but malleable goal to reach toward given the various quests and activities available in a given area. A useful 'base' if you will, to build up on the playing experience.
Veteran Ranks? I'm honestly on the fence about them. I would prefer Cadwell's Almanac to feel less forced, and VR are intended to be removed...but for the time being, I suppose (?) that they are ok as they are.

But for everything after that? I think scaling would be fine. More than fine, actually. I would however insist for there to be certain incentives to thoroughly explore or at least finish the main story line for each new zone so that people do not wander too aimlessly for too long.

Thanks for all the opinion's everyone. I didn't think this topic would blow up like it did.

wayfarerx wrote: »

I think they should leave the 1-50 zones like they are, they provide a good tutorial for learning the game and a solid introduction to the story and lore of Tamriel in this timeframe.

However, I think it would be great if after finishing Coldharbour all zones worked like Orsinium going forward, including a separate instance of your home faction & Coldharbour for vets only. This would mean that after "beating the game" the entire surface of Tamriel would be open to quest/grind/farm however you see fit.

After seeing your answer I wish I could change mine. LOL I do hope all zones going forward are scaled. That makes sense both from a financial standpoint for ZOS and a good way for the most people to have fun as players.

Someone else mentioned not wanting scaled zones because basically they've never beaten an area then. I'd be better able to understand that attitude if level 5 NPCs weren't still attacking my VR14 character. LOL

Sting864 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

IMO, there are two two good models that ZOS can learn something from.

First, in GW2 every zone scales to your level and it makes going back and play in old zones possible and meaningful. Second, in TSW most quests are re-doable. I myself really enjoy going back and doing some of the interesting quests.

There are so many beautiful landscapes and interesting NPCs and quests in those old zones and I am sure ZOS has put a awful lot of efforts making them. It's such a waste in both ways that we just visit them once and leave them all behind and all those efforts and resources put in there are made a one time use thing.

I can imagine that making zones scale to players or quests re-doable is a lot of work and there are definitely going to be crazy bugs everywhere. But it's best if ZOS at least starts to think about adding some new elements or systems such as the long-waited enforcer system to the old zones.

You gave 2 very clear examples of what ESO learned NOT to do. If each zone's dungeon were scaled and repeatable, "rushin's" would flood in and spoil those dungeons for those more "hardcore" gamers that take advantage of all of the materials (books, dialogue, resources...) provided in dungeons... By visiting them only once, one is discouraged from "rushin'" through content...

Or if you look at it from a different perspective, for those whose very first dungeon run experience are ruined by rushins, at least they get a chance to gather like-minded people to do it again. Haters gonna hate, rushins gonna rush, no matter if it is repeatable.

They would actually gain 99.9% of their player base back if they did this. Part of Elder Scrolls is being able to go where you want, when you want and explore at your own leisure. I would vote for this 100 times if I could lol

I find it funny how players complain about "no XP against lower level enemies" but that's because they've already gained enough XP to advance beyond them. It is interesting how a human's mind works... and how they cannot comprehend something that they don't want to. Part of game progression is... well... progression. What people here are asking for is ZERO progression, there would be no need for levels at all if everything was at your level. You'd never get tougher, you'd never be OP, for the life of the game you'd be STATIC. Sure you'd have more skills, but those skills wouldn't do anything to advance you, it'd just keep you exactly the same. People would soon get bored because for all their hard work, they'd never feel like they've really improved. PvP would be the ONLY place where people would experience any chance of difference, and the majority of players in ESO do not do PvP.

I also find it funny how players always expect something, they cannot seem to do anything just for the sake of doing it. "I want to help my friend, but in order to do it I must get something out of it." Ever heard of helping a friend for the sake of helping them, with nothing asked in return? Like the Khajiit lady says when talking to a High Elf... "You people cannot see the forest for the trees"... and the same can be said for many players of ESO.

^ Scale you to the zone. For 1-50 zones, scale down but not up (so you don't over-level a zone, but still have a sense of progression by being able to defeat higher level enemies that you couldn't before).

Unless they have this be an opt-in feature, where you can turn it on and off at any time, I wouldn't like to see this in the game. Why? Because I don't like the idea of everywhere I go I remain at roughly the same strength as the enemies when I haven't put the work into leveling them up. Orsinium I can understand it for because they don't want a DLC zone restricted only to max level characters, it'd be off-putting to people who don't want to feel forced to reach max level just to experience new content. However, as I said before I would not be opposed to this SO LONG AS it's optional and can be turned on and off at any time. Also I would not like the zones actually scaling to the player, I would prefer battle leveling like with cyrodiil and wrothgar, that way it's easier to handle multiple characters at different level scales fighting the same enemies.

All zones should scale you up. Xp is far too easy to gain (esp with a sub) and you end up way overleveled for most zones. I like the idea of quest and level gates to actually access new zones but once there you should be able to quest without having to worry about whether you will gain any xp or simply facerolling everything (which is dull).

No for the 1-50 starter zones, OK after that

Imo downscaling à la Guild Wars 2 is the only reasonable way to continue.

As it stands, there are a few issues:

- Playing with friends is hard when there is a level difference.
- Old content becomes obsolete as soon as the player has outleveled it.
- The PvP-part of the Justice System cannot be implemented completely when there is a level difference between Enforcers and criminals to be taken into account.
- If new players play DLC before the vanilla zones, they will outlevel their leveling content upon completing the DLC.

Solution A: Scaling the zone to the player would require immense amount of instances, stressing the servers unduly and possibly forcing players to switch shards to match their level to the rest of the players on the map.

Solution B: Scaling up would completely counter the design of a lot of maps in vanilla ESO - this will already be a problem when VR are removed in Caldwell's Silver and Gold. The idea of going wherever you want and doing whatever you want seems nice and very Elder Scrollsesque, but in ESO has built their zones and its content around levels: entire quest sequences will be messed up and plot holes will be seen where there are none. The current zones also provide a good and guided introduction to the way the game works and the lore. Assuredly players can skip it if they want, to get some extra challenge for themselves, which is fine.

Solution C: Down-scaling would solve all outlined issues, while preserving the guided leveling for low level players and giving them coherent plotlines and zone designs. New zones could implement battle-leveling without running the risk that new players play DLC first after which vanilla is obsolete.


PS. I do think the leveling experience need to be tidied up: currently completing a zone will have you overleveled for the next zone, which makes ESO a boringly easy RPG to play through.

No. Zones should remain non scalable especially lvl 1-50, 1-5, 6-10. Not everyone are pro. Maybe I prefer to play as a V6 char in a V4 zone. Or as a V10 char in a V1 public dungeon because I love to delve solo and because I'm all alone. It happens after a while that certain areas to remain quite empty in MMO's. Scale might not fix this issue.

Yes. This game needs an difficulty switch. A setting where you can teleport to a zone and play whatever you want and however you want. Solo or in a group. Casual or hardcore. One slider should just add more mobs and the other should allow mobs to hit harder or have more hp. Thing is I have no clue if it can be implemented in a mmo or how hard such option can hit the servers. And then how much time this game will need to be tested and balanced? Months? Years? All this time can be put to a much better use.

A game feature must be designed such way it doesn't require years of work changing and implementing features like this. If we keep asking for this and that but all of these take years of testing then we might as well never really enjoy the game. Also between a feature like justice and a feature like a new zone i'd rather get one new zone to play with. I prefer exploration and its 1 year half later and all we got is 2-3 new zones. Features are good too but they must take their time and also tested properly and must not disturb the gameplay in anyway due to a rush launch. Veteran System for example will go away. Champion system also got this game a bit unbalanced for some so it will be changed here and there.

In PvP the smallest change will make the whole game unbalanced. As for PvE? Would you rather visit Vvandenfell or revisit Stonefalls over and over?

1-50 can stay as is. Veteran zones should scale.