LFG Tool Improvements Don't Help if People Don't Use it Right

UrQuan · November 2015

I just had an experience that goes to show that you can make all the improvements to the LFG tool in the world, and if people are too dumb to use it right, you're still going to have trouble finding a group.

I figured I had just enough time to do the vet pledge before leaving for work, so I queued as a tank for it. Got into a group in about 4 minutes. I noticed right away that nobody was set as a healer - 2 others were set as DPS, and the last one wasn't set as anything. So I asked in group chat if we had a healer, and yes apparently one of them was a healer, but hadn't set their role correctly.

The group leader asked me what my role was (don't know why, as I had actually set my role correctly), I replied tank (which was what I was set as, and I was the only one set as tank). Right as I typed in /group that I can actually swap to any role as needed by switching gear & skills, he typed "wrong answer" and then kicked me.

The sad thing is, this *** is actually in two of my guilds... Sheesh.

UrQuan · November 2015

And of course, since then he's been asking in /guild in both of those guilds for more people for the gold pledge, so I guess his group fell apart. SMH

Ommamar · November 2015

I would say that person went to the front of the ignore line. I think regardless of how well the grouping tool works there is a fundamental problem that you are getting into a PUG with no idea of what the experience will be. ESO is the most anti social MMO I have run across people are very soloed focused even when grouped. If you happen to make a mistake or not at the level they think you should be out understanding mechanics or how your class works there seems to be little leeway. I think that it is no more apparent then in the new IC pledge dungeons. I have actually had people refuse to try it if someone hasn't done it before. Which brings on the argument of how will people learn if no one will give them a chance to try it.

Dexter411 · November 2015

What that has to do with Grouping tool? You meet ***, nothing new sadly. Grouping tool and VR16 scaling is still broken as it was.

Alphashado · November 2015

Sorry, but how does that exemplify that the tool is working properly? You said yourself that it compiled a group where nobody had the healer role selected. The group was fortunate that the healer forgot to change his role selection, but that doesn't change the fact that the group was put together w/o a healer selected.

So while I sympathize with you getting a bad PUG, your post actually demonstrates how the LFG tool is still broken.

EDIT: After reading your post again, I see that it's more about people using it incorrectly than it is about the tool working properly. My apologies. At first I thought this was another "see, the LFG tool is working great and it's human error" threads.

UrQuan · November 2015

Ommamar wrote: »

I would say that person went to the front of the ignore line. I think regardless of how well the grouping tool works there is a fundamental problem that you are getting into a PUG with no idea of what the experience will be. ESO is the most anti social MMO I have run across people are very soloed focused even when grouped. If you happen to make a mistake or not at the level they think you should be out understanding mechanics or how your class works there seems to be little leeway. I think that it is no more apparent then in the new IC pledge dungeons. I have actually had people refuse to try it if someone hasn't done it before. Which brings on the argument of how will people learn if no one will give them a chance to try it.

PUGs are always going to be hit and miss, and I'm OK with that, but yeah, there are definitely some folks out there who simply aren't willing to give any leeway. The funny thing is, they're often the ones who are themselves in need of a lot of leeway, because a lot of the time they're just not up to par so they need to rely on being in a group with people who are better than them at the content, and who can carry them. Not always, of course, but I've encountered that many times.

Dexter411 wrote: »

What that has to do with Grouping tool?

Just that no matter what, if people don't set their roles correctly you're not going to have an easy time forming groups using the tool.

Dexter411 wrote: »

You meet ***, nothing new sadly.

That's true.

Dexter411 wrote: »

Grouping tool and VR16 scaling is still broken as it was.

That I disagree with. It's still not working 100% the way it should IMO, but it's a vast improvement over what it was like before the patch. It may still be somewhat broken, but not as broken as it was.

Alphashado wrote: »

Sorry, but how does that exemplify that the tool is working properly? You said yourself that it compiled a group where nobody had the healer role selected. The group was fortunate that the healer forgot to change his role selection, but that doesn't change the fact that the group was put together w/o a healer selected.

So while I sympathize with you getting a bad PUG, your post actually demonstrates how the LFG tool is still broken.

EDIT: After reading your post again, I see that it's more about people using it incorrectly than it is about the tool working properly. My apologies. At first I thought this was another "see, the LFG tool is working great and it's human error" threads.

Yup, pretty much what you said in your edit

From my point of view the changes to the LFG tool are a vast improvement, but it still doesn't seem to be working 100% properly. I'd consider there to still be work that needs to be done on it. In another thread I've suggested that, while battle-leveling is a great way to ensure that you find a group quickly, maybe battle-leveling everyone to VR16 isn't the way to go, and maybe it should only battle-level vet rank characters to VR16, and non-vet characters to level 50 instead.

Conquers · November 2015

we should not have group leaders in auto-made groups. there should be a vote-kick that requires 2 out of 3 to say yes to remove you, and a vote disband that all 4 must agree to a disband. its simple and WoW had it,

was very funny to vote no to kicking because an elitist wanted a noob out, and i was actually carrying everyone and liked the noob more

Alphashado · November 2015

Conquers wrote: »

we should not have group leaders in auto-made groups. there should be a vote-kick that requires 2 out of 3 to say yes to remove you, and a vote disband that all 4 must agree to a disband. its simple and WoW had it,

was very funny to vote no to kicking because an elitist wanted a noob out, and i was actually carrying everyone and liked the noob more

I agree. The vote-to-kick option is much better than the Elitist-kick-on-whim system we currently have.

nine9six · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

And of course, since then he's been asking in /guild in both of those guilds for more people for the gold pledge, so I guess his group fell apart. SMH

Good.

UrQuan · November 2015

nine9six wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

And of course, since then he's been asking in /guild in both of those guilds for more people for the gold pledge, so I guess his group fell apart. SMH

Good.

I have to admit, that was pretty much my reaction.

Waffennacht · November 2015

I'll always try, I don't care what people's builds are in a PUG.

Silly people kick other players, they more than likely are poor players if they need PUG and have elitist expectations

nine9six · November 2015

You'd think in a game where people can fill different roles, he'd have at least asked. If you had time to finish your sentence he'd have seen that.

His loss.

traigusb14_ESO2 · November 2015

I can't wait for the console release...

Between the glass cannon builds they all love on Xbox scaling to super 1 hit fire standing stupid an the fact 75% of the players think a role is something you put butter on, the fun will never end.

I have heard glass cannon types actually say, "I can't wait for the new scaling because I can do more damage with my all magic build."

We also haven't graduated a lot of tanks into the ... yes you have to block in this game, heavy armor isn't good enough to keep you alive by itself while you try to wrecking blow the boss.

PUGs on Xbox are already pretty clown car funny. I was in a group last night, where I swear a V16 guy was hitting buttons randomly (he kept summoning and unsummoning his clanfear, to the furious sound of button clicking over his mic (which at least he had). It was only for a Silver, so he wasn't bringing us down or anything.

I don't think the interface of the LFG tool is really intuitive, especially since roles aren't really explained anyplace in game.We get a lot of templar = healer.. so Sta jabs happy DPS templars in heavy armor think they are healers (also all DKs are tanks)../

Wheeee...

UrQuan · November 2015

nine9six wrote: »

You'd think in a game where people can fill different roles, he'd have at least asked. If you had time to finish your sentence he'd have seen that.

His loss.

Well, I did finish the sentence before I got kicked... But he probably kicked before he read it. To be honest, I have noticed that guy in guild chat as being a bit of a tool anyway. He's definitely one of those people who thinks he knows everything and that he's always right about everything, and everyone else is wrong.

UrQuan · November 2015

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

We also haven't graduated a lot of tanks into the ... yes you have to block in this game, heavy armor isn't good enough to keep you alive by itself while you try to wrecking blow the boss.

And on PC we've been having issues getting tanks used to the "no, you can't just perma-block anymore" lol.

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

I don't think the interface of the LFG tool is really intuitive, especially since roles aren't really explained anyplace in game.We get a lot of templar = healer.. so Sta jabs happy DPS templars in heavy armor think they are healers (also all DKs are tanks)../

Wheeee...

That's true - the roles should be better explained to help newbies know what is expected of them based on the role they select.

WillhelmBlack · November 2015

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

Jura23 · November 2015

You should be glad you didn't end up running dungeon with that person.

wayfarerx · November 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

WillhelmBlack · November 2015

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

UrQuan · November 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

OK, you're an elitist. You have no clue how much experience any of those people have. They could have way more experience than you and be playing on alts that they're leveling. Frankly, it's really stupid of you to leave the group on that basis, and it's an *** move.

UrQuan · November 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

You should be glad you didn't end up running dungeon with that person.

lol no doubt...

WillhelmBlack · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

OK, you're an elitist. You have no clue how much experience any of those people have. They could have way more experience than you and be playing on alts that they're leveling. Frankly, it's really stupid of you to leave the group on that basis, and it's an *** move.

Agree, and I felt bad doing it. So I quit game and I'll never use the tool again. Was just putting feedback on a relevant thread.

wayfarerx · November 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

Well, you could have at least given it a shot, or asked them if they knew how the dungeon worked. Turning around and walking out on a group just because of the numbers next to their name is pretty much the dictionary definition of an MMO elitist.

Also, it's a crummy way to filter groups in the first place. Not only could those guys have been the best dungeon runners in the game who just happened to be on an alt, but then there's guys like me. I have two V16s but because of RL obligations and the fact that I'm an unrepentant loner there are vet dungeons I've never even run before (and not just the new ones, I've never set foot in vet Elden Hollow, for example). So vet rank is in no way indicative of experience level with a particular dungeon.

UrQuan · November 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

OK, you're an elitist. You have no clue how much experience any of those people have. They could have way more experience than you and be playing on alts that they're leveling. Frankly, it's really stupid of you to leave the group on that basis, and it's an *** move.

Agree, and I felt bad doing it. So I quit game and I'll never use the tool again. Was just putting feedback on a relevant thread.

So basically your experience was "I'm an elitist and I was being a jerk, therefore the tool sucks and I won't use it again". Um, OK, I'm not really sure how that's relevant feedback... Although it does prove that no matter how many improvements there are that are made to the tool there will always be people who ruin the experience of using it for other folks. So I guess it is relevant for this thread. I guess I just wasn't expecting anyone to name and shame themselves.

WillhelmBlack · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

OK, you're an elitist. You have no clue how much experience any of those people have. They could have way more experience than you and be playing on alts that they're leveling. Frankly, it's really stupid of you to leave the group on that basis, and it's an *** move.

Agree, and I felt bad doing it. So I quit game and I'll never use the tool again. Was just putting feedback on a relevant thread.

So basically your experience was "I'm an elitist and I was being a jerk, therefore the tool sucks and I won't use it again". Um, OK, I'm not really sure how that's relevant feedback... Although it does prove that no matter how many improvements there are that are made to the tool there will always be people who ruin the experience of using it for other folks. So I guess it is relevant for this thread. I guess I just wasn't expecting anyone to name and shame themselves.

Pretty much. It's not for everyone nor fool proof. Though I think I did the right thing and left before we started. Why not try it? How was I supposed to know it wasn't gonna put me in with other players within 4 ranks of my own?

UrQuan · November 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't work at all. I just got thrown into Darkshade with 1 x VR16, 1 x VR2 and 1 x VR5. What good is that? I just had to leave group, shame for them but hey go complain to ZOS.

I just won't use it again. Gave it a go, it sucked.

You know that when you use the group finder everyone gets battle-leveled up to v16, right?

Yeah. But in what fashion? How much experience do they have running VR16 dungeons? I know when I was new to the pledges I was more comfortable with people of the same level because they'd roughly have the same amount of experience as me. What about myself and the other VR16? Do we have to just get in there and spend an hour on the second boss to find out the 2 low level VR's just aren't doing the DPS?

Call me an elitist, but I wanna do my daily comfortably and quickly.

OK, you're an elitist. You have no clue how much experience any of those people have. They could have way more experience than you and be playing on alts that they're leveling. Frankly, it's really stupid of you to leave the group on that basis, and it's an *** move.

Agree, and I felt bad doing it. So I quit game and I'll never use the tool again. Was just putting feedback on a relevant thread.

So basically your experience was "I'm an elitist and I was being a jerk, therefore the tool sucks and I won't use it again". Um, OK, I'm not really sure how that's relevant feedback... Although it does prove that no matter how many improvements there are that are made to the tool there will always be people who ruin the experience of using it for other folks. So I guess it is relevant for this thread. I guess I just wasn't expecting anyone to name and shame themselves.

Pretty much. It's not for everyone nor fool proof. Though I think I did the right thing and left before we started. Why not try it? How was I supposed to know it wasn't gonna put me in with other players within 4 ranks of my own?

Doing the right thing would have been asking how experienced the other players were with doing the vet dungeons at max rank, and if they actually are inexperienced and you can't handle being in an inexperienced group, then you say "sorry I only have time for a fast run, so I need a more experienced group" before you leave. And if you had bothered to check what the changes were to the LFG tool you would have known there was a high likelihood of being paired with people of all vet ranks.

UltimaJoe777 · November 2015

A game can do only what it is programmed to do. A player can make or break a game depending on how they play it.

Oft times the community is the worst part of an MMORPG...

UrQuan · November 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

A game can do only what it is programmed to do. A player can make or break a game depending on how they play it.

You know, you and I don't always see eye-to-eye on everything, but we can definitely agree on that. My overall experiences with the ESO community have been very good, but there are definitely some folks out there who make the experience bad for others.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

This might be going to far but I always questioned why the tool roles aren't limited to the point of certain skills. So if a class has level a skill or weapon tree skill to X then a role is opened up but if not it's closed (in accordance to the character level)

It may sound drastic but if you queue as a healer then either the rejuvenate staff should have X level in X skills per char level or if a healer and a Templar, then rejuvenate staff and/or healing skills at X level based on char level.

Same idea as tank an d DPS

UrQuan · November 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

This might be going to far but I always questioned why the tool roles aren't limited to the point of certain skills. So if a class has level a skill or weapon tree skill to X then a role is opened up but if not it's closed (in accordance to the character level)

It may sound drastic but if you queue as a healer then either the rejuvenate staff should have X level in X skills per char level or if a healer and a Templar, then rejuvenate staff and/or healing skills at X level based on char level.

Same idea as tank an d DPS

I think the flexibility of ESO (as in: there are loads of different possible viable builds for each role, across all 4 classes) works against this concept. I think it would be incredibly difficult to measure what the minimum requirements for each role would be.

UltimaJoe777 · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

A game can do only what it is programmed to do. A player can make or break a game depending on how they play it.

You know, you and I don't always see eye-to-eye on everything, but we can definitely agree on that. My overall experiences with the ESO community have been very good, but there are definitely some folks out there who make the experience bad for others.

Indeed, and as for the first bit that applies to pretty much everyone and everything lol