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The casuals have won...
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Hateanthem✭✭✭✭Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.0 -
Avenias✭✭✭✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.3 -
deucalionsb✭✭Casuals, elite. Honestly you guys must not have full time jobs or wives/girlfriends, or kids. And if you do, how can you honestly call yourself a "hardcore" gamer. What is the definition of "hardcore" in your opinion. Look, I walk and talk like my stuff don't stink all the time. But it doesn't make me "hardcore". TBH we're all casuals, and unless your a game developer, mathematician, or are actually getting payed to play games, then your still just a casual gamer. You still play the game in your free time, and you still expect to get handed a reward for completing your objective. There is no master race, it's all in your head.1 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
Even as a casual who is not very good, I can't disagree with you. I get very frustrated that I can't seem to beat the mobs, sure. Since I'm used to single-player that you can set your difficulty, I think it may have to do with having the choice removed from me.
But, still, I keep coming back to ESO because it's a challenge and they should keep it that way. If we want easy content, then we have the first few levels and the starting areas. It SHOULD get progressively more difficult under the assumption that you, as a player, are getting better.
Maybe one of the other posters is correct that it has to do with the folks that rush through everything and get to higher levels long before they're actually prepared to handle them.
Personally, I'm taking my current mage slow and not sweating the small stuff. Maybe I'll even try more grouping this time and I'm certainly going to work harder with Cyrodil and IC this time, just, because... I mean, honestly, I've been a lazy casual on ESO for a long time now and it's time to step up my game. You can't get better if you don't try. You have to be willing to learn and you have to be willing to use trial and error and get better, not just rush through everything for achievements.0 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Casual this. Casual that. Half of you that are crying about Casuals are one yourself.
The word has lost all meaning. It has been tossed around more than Selena Gomez nude pics.Edited by rager82b14_ESO on November 3, 2015 5:37PM3 -
Hateanthem✭✭✭✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.
Quit being lazy and look up the number decline yourself. They release quarterly sub reports. Quit being dense.0 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭firstdecan wrote: »I'm glad the casuals won. Maybe once the no-lifers move on to another game this one can be enjoyable for the overwhelming majority of the people who play it.
Here's a hint: If you're regularly playing this game for more than 15-20 hours a week, you are an addict. Even at 15-20 hours a week, that's a 2-3 hour a day habit, which might still be problematic. You are not elite, you are not special, you are not actually whatever rationalization you think justifies all the time spent here. You have a problem.
.....
What an impressively obnoxious and arrogant comment. To presume and characterize other peoples perceived gaming habits so negatively highlights your character defects.. not theirs.
15-20 hours a week, 2-3 hours a day habit is an addiction? Really? What do you think I do after work. I come home, eat dinner and play video games. Hey, it's better than TV. I mean, honestly, 40-80 hours a week or 8-10 hours a day, maybe, but the 15-20 hour poster is off base here. What would be the point of an MMO if you only played 30 minutes a day. You'd never get anything done! 1/2 the time it takes me 30 minutes just to get through the load screens!2 -
Fedaygin✭✭Deleted.
Edited by Fedaygin on November 3, 2015 5:48PM"Recycle, Reduce Single Plastic Use & Use Fabric Groceries Bag. Easy Steps to Help Animals" Follow #WeWantStargate Campaign on Twitter & @BaronDestructo w Details. Play Games & Redeem pts at web stores: https://mistplay.co/Nw5kvzopc2
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSsw2YuVvv004W7gPWDg0xC0kKaX7UFTEoumFPFoKAiWpLTL0UeALYJuF5PcTtKTFF8cunIcC0f3sqD/pub1 -
Have you completed all the achievements in the game?Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »If the game is too easy perhaps you are just too good?
I have 8 players on EU and 8 players NA and my top players are VR16, VR13, VR6, I play solo most the time and could not do much with the IC add on. Too many self healing bosses etc for solo dps and survival.
Have you completed all the achievements in the game? If not you are just skipping things and grinding with friends.
Don't complain about easy until you can solo every boss, delv, and add-on etc.
Dont use your Champion points and the game will be like it was when you were first born!
Have you mastered each class?
Peace,
Floki
No,. i havent been playing long enough for that,. started when CP system came out.
Don't complain about easy until you can solo every boss, delv, and add-on etc...
I play a MMO to for group content,. soloing content that is ment for groups is still challenging,. but if i want to play solo and have a challenge ill play a single player game on HM/Expert. And not min/maxing your characters stats
Dont use your Champion points and the game will be like it was when you were first born!
I like min/maxing also part of the reason i play MMO,. for the character progression,. I dont see the point in self nerfing just to make something a challenge,. the challenge should be provided but the hardest content in the game.
Have you mastered each class?
No, but im working on it,. I just love tanking,. In every MMO i played im a tank, but like now to keep myself interest, im making a templar healer, and a stamina night blade,.
Healed v14 AA/Helra/SO on my v6 templar together with my gf on her v7 healer.,. that was a nice challenge.0 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.
Only mention I've seen recently is that the ESO player base has "stabilized". And that was in Forbes last week. I'm not sure what that means, but, hey, it's better than "declining" or "dieing"!0 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »The Casuals will always win.
There are, and will always be more of us.
People cannot stay 12 years old forever.
Eventually the majority of them will grow up, get jobs, have kids, and....transform slowly into a Casual.
#CasualMasterRace
Hehe not true at all.
Proven by Path of Exile, proven by Dark Souls sales, proven by Archeage (not the P2W abomination Trion has brought to europe) will be proven by games like Albion and hopefully, Black Desert in the future.
Games which will have developers that will not choose the standard "safe" recipe to follow for a "fast" cashgrab and will innovate instead or return to the Ultima Online period. Mmorpgs which will emulate an immersive fantasy world players won't be able to log out from. Even the so-called casual, who gets back home from work and wants to mindlessly click somewhere to complete his daily routine. That's what he wants but not what he craves.
Of course, the longer people like you guys pay for their sub-par products, the longer they will serve them.
By the way, left this game since the 2nd month of ESO's release (the time when so many were certain that it won't become f2p - ZOS has this planned though ofc). How is the game doing?0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭Because of games like COD.
All the best stuff available to everyone instantly.
Challenge and reward for beating it has been ripped out of games.
It's turned all all all, now now now.
Except for PvP. You can never nerf that.Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭smokebudsb16_ESO wrote: »Just did a vet wgt v16,. and wow Vet mode is now so easy to do, the tank can full on dps and just need healing springs from a dd.. so now i guess the only thing remotely challenging in this MMO is the vet solo arena... why zos why
And it wouldn't matter if zos introduced a expert mode, since it would result in the "casuals" not being able to do it, then a nerf.. i never understood why people feel they need to be able to do all content in a mmo regardless of how ill prepared and unpractised they are.. what ever happened to min/maxing your character, learning the skill set and practising the mechanics of a dungeon to finally beat it giving a sense of accomplishment, and then from there get better and better run times.
Its sad to say but we raised a instant gratification generation,
The content is not getting that much easier. It's your performance that increased. Repetition will do that. vWGT specifically had multiple exploits addressed so should actually be harder, or "normal".
Can wait for your post in two weeks time claiming that maelstrom is "ez mode". Yes, because to be honest your post sounds more like grandstanding that anything else and of the polarising kinda at that.
You are providing a disservice to this community.Edited by WolfingHour on November 3, 2015 5:52PM0 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You just want to gank me. I know you do. Admit it! You want to gank me!
(Short note sent by Betheny Fleur, Breton Sorceress and paranoid PvPer)1 -
Fedaygin✭✭Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »The Casuals will always win.
There are, and will always be more of us.
People cannot stay 12 years old forever.
Eventually the majority of them will grow up, get jobs, have kids, and....transform slowly into a Casual.
#CasualMasterRace
Trololz alright
Doesn't have affect for the fact that Devs could still keep the Work and Thought required with Char Progression 
Meaning that encounters in many area's still would require thought and effort and not just couple whatever abilities used and boom encounter over. Then it's time to check what bling bling comes as reward after that watered down encounter. Personally i've always started SP Games on Normal or higher Diff.Setting as i dislike having progression with no thought & work.
One reason why i dislike dumbed down content in Mmo's and no matter the area Came to mind as saw Den Moria saying above: " I get very frustrated that I can't seem to beat the mobs, sure. Since I'm used to single-player that you can set your difficulty, I think it may have to do with having the choice removed from me."
I know ladies and gents who are 30+ old, have kid or more, but still require content that's not dumbed down to no Effort & Thought with it not Required. So saying that in general doesn't apply. Does pretty much though. Wish you nice gaming
Kind regards: Long time TESO Subber & Tamriel Fan Ever Since Morrowind Launched."Recycle, Reduce Single Plastic Use & Use Fabric Groceries Bag. Easy Steps to Help Animals" Follow #WeWantStargate Campaign on Twitter & @BaronDestructo w Details. Play Games & Redeem pts at web stores: https://mistplay.co/Nw5kvzopc2
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSsw2YuVvv004W7gPWDg0xC0kKaX7UFTEoumFPFoKAiWpLTL0UeALYJuF5PcTtKTFF8cunIcC0f3sqD/pub0 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Thanks for the mention, but I hope you read the rest of my post as well. One thing I like about ESO as my first MMO is I'm learning that my expectations are unrealistic. Just because I'm used to always having choice doesn't mean that choice is always a good thing. There is something invigorating and much more realistic about not knowing what you're going to run in to and whether you're going to be able to handle it, even if it's you're same level (I always have battle level on 'cause I want to know). Sometimes my level is easy to defeat, sometimes it's incredibly hard. What it's doing is teaching me tactics and flexibility. I like it. It expands my abilities!Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »The Casuals will always win.
There are, and will always be more of us.
People cannot stay 12 years old forever.
Eventually the majority of them will grow up, get jobs, have kids, and....transform slowly into a Casual.
#CasualMasterRace
Trololz alright Doesn't have affect for the fact that Devs could still keep the Work and Thought required with Char Progression Meaning that encounters in many area's still would require thought and effort and not just couple whatever abilities used and boom encounter over. Then it's time to check what bling bling comes as reward after that watered down encounter. Personally i've always started SP Games on Normal or higher Diff.Setting as i dislike having progression with no thought & work.
One reason why i dislike dumbed down content in Mmo's and no matter the area Came to mind as saw Den Moria saying above: " I get very frustrated that I can't seem to beat the mobs, sure. Since I'm used to single-player that you can set your difficulty, I think it may have to do with having the choice removed from me."
I know ladies and gents who are 30+ old, have kid or more, but still require content that's not dumbed down to no Effort & Thought with it not Required. So saying that in general doesn't apply. Does pretty much though. Wish you nice gaming
Kind regards: Long time TESO Subber & Tamriel Fan Ever Since Morrowind Launched.
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Avenias✭✭✭✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.
Quit being lazy and look up the number decline yourself. They release quarterly sub reports. Quit being dense.
classic evasion tactics of "go find yourself" and assuming you are right. If you are making ur bs conspiracy theory of player base declining, at the very minimum, you should add is to give evidence.1 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.
Quit being lazy and look up the number decline yourself. They release quarterly sub reports. Quit being dense.
classic evasion tactics of "go find yourself" and assuming you are right. If you are making ur bs conspiracy theory of player base declining, at the very minimum, you should add is to give evidence.
Somebody give us a link to these "quarterly status reports". I want to look at them for myself.0 -
Hateanthem✭✭✭✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.
Only mention I've seen recently is that the ESO player base has "stabilized". And that was in Forbes last week. I'm not sure what that means, but, hey, it's better than "declining" or "dieing"!
I think he/she was referring to my mention of the WoW player base, if he/she was meaning ESO, I have no clue if it is declining yet. I can say this though, it has a new player retention problem. We created a guild about a month ago and decided we would try to recruit alot of low level players to help teach them the game. Out of over 50 non vet players, we have like 2 that have logged on in the past 20 days. And since its your account that attaches to the guild its safe to say that those players didn't stick around.
Plus these nerfs to IC just came. ESO isnt pulling a WoW move yet, I think people are just concerned that they might.Edited by Hateanthem on November 3, 2015 5:55PM0 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes, that's what I meant! English is not my first language, so apologies for butchering the grammar. But yes, that's what ZOS is doing and I can't really blame them. I'm a baker so would be stupid of me insist in a product that most of my customers don't want to eat. I'd go broke and bankrupcy doesn't care if you have baked the perfect golden sweetroll yet people don't want to eat. It's about numbers to them, I wish it wasn't but...we have to suck it up.1 -
Avenias✭✭✭✭Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Hateanthem wrote: »I wouldn't say they have "won". In the Elder Scrolls franchise, a player can usually complete all content in the game. There really isn't a difficulty barrier fo them to hurdle. ESO has attracted many of those players, and they expect this game to work like Skyrim or Oblivian. They get mad when they don't have access to everything.
I'm learning that's just the way it is going to be with ESO.
See my above post. I'm a big TES game fan, but you need to realize that not all 'Skyrim players' wanted easy mode. You can challenge yourself in the game, but giving yourself specific rules (No armor) on the hardest mode. You can put in mods that force you to deal with the climate. The assumption that all Skyrim or Oblivion players play on easy mode is preposterous. I'd also like to add that in MMO's I always gravitate toward PVP over 'Raid' content. Don't get me wrong I like those raid/dungeon/taskforce/whatever content types, or zone bosses even, but you are never going to get the same kind of challenge as you would against other players. No enemy is going to be as interesting as another player, that's just the way it is. The tactics will also change. Do I wish we had some form of small scale pvp Arenas/Coliseums? Yes. I would love something that had hazards and small scale pvp from 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or even 20v20 ranges (Ben Hur style?). The only concern I have with an Arena is the potential it has to cannibalize Cyrodiil. For this reason I definitely think the best rewards should remain with Cyrodiil.
I don't think you understand MMOs....at all. If you want relaxed, easy content, YOU go play a single player game, or just don't do the OPTIONAL content like Vet dungeons. MMOs that cater to players who cannot complete the content, ultimately lose players. Let me explain why...
(1) the game becomes easy mode and some of the games biggest advertisers, the streamers and YouTubers, quit. Before they quit...thy let everyone know WHY they quit. You can argue that they don't matter all you want, but MMO players follow those people for some reason , especially the players who like to be challenged.
(2) The game will earn a certain reputation in the industry. You will hear terms like "carebear" and "Noob" in reference to the player base. This will again turn away alot of potential MMO players.
I know this all sounds superficial and very immature (which it is), but it's also just one of those things in the MMO genre. The games that make content too accessible lose customers. Look at WoW. They are down to 5.7, 5.9 million customers from 12 million at the beginning of WoD. Every expac they drop they have a big increase in players, then a decline, but this time the decline just kept on going. One of the biggest complaints they received was that raid content became TOO accessible for the player base.
"Casual" players complained it was too hard, so they put in an easy mode raid version called LFR, then those people who completed LFR decided they wanted to do the normal raids. They then complained the normal raids where too hard so they introduced "flex" raids. After the players completed flex they STILL complained about the difficulty...so in the most recent expac they ended up with 4 different versions of the same raids and tied the legendary quest lines to them, because now all the raids were so easy that everybody could do them.
Nerfing things that need nerfed is one thing. Nerfng them because you feel better everybody should get the TryHard Award is another.
This theory has no hard evidence, all based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, complete bs.
You are right...the thousands of "I quit because of this.." threads, along with watch my guild of hundreds of raiders evaporate into nothing, mainly because of this reason, makes me full of total BS. Let's not mention the streamers, guide makers, YouTubers, and add-on developers who expressed the same sentiment.
You are right. It's total BS.
At the end of the day, all you have to support you is "he said" "she said" bs. Show me some actual numbers of player base declining and then i will shut up. If you cant, i suggest u stop trying to act smart with ur conspiracy theories.
Only mention I've seen recently is that the ESO player base has "stabilized". And that was in Forbes last week. I'm not sure what that means, but, hey, it's better than "declining" or "dieing"!
I think he/she was referring to my mention of the WoW player base, if he/she was meaning ESO, I have no clue if it is declining yet. I can say this though, it has a new player retention problem. We created a guild about a month ago and decided we would try to recruit alot of low level players to help teach them the game. Out of over 50 non vet players, we have like 2 that have logged on in the past 20 days. And since its your account that attaches to the guild its safe to say that those players didn't stick around.
Plus these nerfs to IC just came. ESO isnt pulling a WoW move yet, I think people are just concerned that they might.
So just because you have a failed guild means the games player base is declining?2 -
Frawr✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the OP.
You people have paid for it and you *can* do it - noone is stopping you.
Everyone has access (if paid or sub). You can all do it.
IF you are not capable - improve.
You entitled people are ruining online multiplayer gaming...Edited by Frawr on November 3, 2015 6:01PM0 -
ZOS_Alex✭✭✭Hi there, everyone.
Due to the repeatedly disruptive behavior in this thread, we are going to close it. We understand that people will disagree from time to time, but trolling, insulting, flaming, and rude comments are not acceptable behavior on the ESOTU forums. We encourage everyone to take a few minutes and read our Code of Conduct. It outlines the guidelines and expected conduct on our forums.0
This discussion has been closed.