CP catch-up mechanic

Hateanthem · November 2015

Hello ZOS and fellow players,

I have a couple of question and statements, non of which are actual complaints, just thought and inquiries. First off the CP catch-up and CP cap. Thumbs up ZOS. I like it. I like it a lot. MMO's like this need player power caps to ensure competitiveness and player retention. Great step in the right direction. I am however questioning the idea of continuing to earn CP while at cap. I know there are players out there that have a bunch, and they feel they deserve them, but this completely defeats the purpose of having a cap. As soon as you raise the cap you will have players at the next cap, instantly. In my opinion (just my opinion, no need to freak out) this removes all forms of competitiveness in one second, especially if ZOS removes veteran ranks. You will have a bunch of players at power cap the second the new DLC launches. I think this is poor design.

I can see how players feel they should not lose the CP they have accumulated, but really they would have been playing the game anyway, whether they were gaining CP or not. MMO's have repeatedly proven that players do not need to constantly advance in power. Once you reach a level cap (VR system, CP system, levels, whatever), players are just as motivated to earn titles, pvp rank, gear upgrades, vanity items, as they are to earn that next increment in character strength.

I'm sure TESO has a lot of players new to MMOs that were large fans of the single player Elder Scrolls games. I can see why they want to constantly be able to strengthen their character, but when you play with other people, you have to have caps (not caps where you can earn for the future).

Also wouldn't instantly having max cap be boring? What would their be left besides any new quests? Gear grinds? Awesome. Now players get to do the gear grinds without that little joy of seeing CP increase as they accomplish goals. Now it literally is just a grind.

tl;Dr: letting players keep/earn CP for future caps defeats the purpose of having caps in the first place. Growing a characters power should be consistent with completing content for the current DLC (including pvp, no one should be forced into any specific playstyle.)

Thank for reading this jumbled mess. Hope everyone has fun in Orsinium.

notimetocare · November 2015

Nobody wants their time played to be meaningless. This system just makes sure that XP is not wasted. Sure, they might play if they are earning CP or not, but I am going to say most would like to know they are still earning them. Someone who plays a ton, imo, should get a short time where each new cap lets them have a bit of power. Especially since future caps wont be as vital as the current one. After a point, the value of each CP is worth less and less as after about 400cp you have most of the powerful passive. When the next cap comes out at probably 800-1k, that will literally be all the important passive (like with dmg classes full crit dmg bonus, full dmg bonus, full penetration bonus being obtainable by 900cp)

Zyle · November 2015

I think there were multiple reasons as to why ZOS chose to let people who have a high number of CP keep them:
How do we compensate these players?
How do we explain that they are being punished for playing the game their own way?
How do we explain to them that the people without a high number of CP deserve more attention because they spent their time differently?

I see where you're coming from, but I think the system they have introduced is great as it doesn't punish those who have a high number of CP in every aspect. Even though some people may instantly be at the next cap, they didn't have a catchup mechanic that reduces the amount of XP required per CP until you hit the median. The disparity between CP levels when they raise a cap will quickly be eliminated as the catchup mechanic does its job.

One thing different about ESO versus any other MMO, is that from the get-go ZOS advertised that you can play the game however you want. To some people, that means grinding CP, to others it may mean getting max achievement points on a character. You and I can't determine what is boring for people.

I don't agree with the statement that letting players keep CP defeats the purpose of having caps. IMO, having caps reduced the power gap, the catchup system reduces that power gap even further.

Hateanthem · November 2015

So any play time after reaching the new CP cap is worthless? And then when the next DLC drops and you are instantly capped, any playtime from there out would be worthless?

And what is "wasted xp"? There really is no such thing. When you are at a cap (level, CP, whatever) you aren't wasting xp because you aren't earning it.

This notion that there needs to be constant rewards in character strength is just flawed.

Hateanthem · November 2015

I hate to say this but "play any way you want" does not set it apart from other MMO's. There's nothing in the game thats very different from other mainline MMO's, except for loadscreen bosses and a convoluted leveling system. You have the same choices as other games. Play through PvE, PvP, RP, the standard things.

Not trying to be rude but its really no different.

Like i said i like the CP cap, and I like the catch up, but earning for future patches makes no sense. Let people keep what they have but his is like putting duct tape on a system without actually fixing the system.

Sausage · November 2015

Hateanthem wrote: »

You will have a bunch of players at power cap the second the new DLC launches. I think this is poor design.

So its better to put a cap and watch how players whines theres nothing to do? I think those people who grind themselves beyond the cap should be rewarded like with a gold.

Hateanthem · November 2015

Sausage wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

You will have a bunch of players at power cap the second the new DLC launches. I think this is poor design.

So its better to put a cap and watch how players whines theres nothing to do? I think those people who grind themselves beyond the cap should be rewarded like with a gold.

If there is a cap with a new DLC, and everyone has to earn the CPs to reach the cap for the new DLC, then they will in fact have something to do. If they log in on the first day an they are at CP cap, then by uowur logic they really have nothing to do.

Hateanthem · November 2015

You're* typing on a phone is no fun.

Sausage · November 2015

Hateanthem wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

You will have a bunch of players at power cap the second the new DLC launches. I think this is poor design.

So its better to put a cap and watch how players whines theres nothing to do? I think those people who grind themselves beyond the cap should be rewarded like with a gold.

If there is a cap with a new DLC, and everyone has to earn the CPs to reach the cap for the new DLC, then they will in fact have something to do. If they log in on the first day an they are at CP cap, then by uowur logic they really have nothing to do.

Reward them with gold like I said? 10k gold for every CP you've grinded past CP-cap. First is grind for power then grind for gold. Grind for power is expected for all players to reach and shouldnt take maybe 300 hour or so per season. 300 hour per season shouldnt be too much to ask.

Hateanthem · November 2015

With the CP rate pre patch, 10k would be way over the top and would break the economy. I can see Crowns for the store though. For every 100 CP over the cap, 1000 crowns or some other fair conversion. But I think that should be a one time thing to get everyone on the level.

People reach max level in MMOs. Once you reach max level the game isn't over or anything. This isn't a console game where there isn't anything to do after level cap. It's an MMO.

Sausage · November 2015

Okok, maybe theres something I dont get, but as far I know people get CP's even after reaching CP-cap and thats only good thing, because otherwise people would whine theres nothing to do.

Malmai · November 2015

The CP cap should be there from day one or they should implement better system from the start...

TequilaFire · November 2015

One thing is for sure people complain no matter what.

Hateanthem · November 2015

Sausage wrote: »

Okok, maybe theres something I dont get, but as far I know people get CP's even after reaching CP-cap and thats only good thing, because otherwise people would whine theres nothing to do.

DLC "A" comes out with CP cap of 100.
Everybody hits 100. Now with gear craftable, and available.in dungeons or whatever, there is a fair playing field. Everybody earns 300 CP during the time of DLC "A".

DLC " B" comes out with a CP cap of 200 with no level increase.
Now a ton of players are at power cap the day the DLC launches. They all spend a few days clearing the new DLC content. The whole time earning CP they can't use, saving it for DLC "C".

Done.

How does that give incentive to players during DLC " B" or later? It lessens any future content. You aren't "leveling" with your friends, guild mates, or on your own. You are leveled because you earned your rewards for the current DLC in a previous DLC.

That's how huge content gaps are created. People get bored even faster when there is less to currently work for.

Sausage · November 2015

My proposition is that every season theres grind for power and it takes like 200-300 hour to do and its required for every player, if you cant do that, dont play MMORPGs, and when next DLC comes and cap is raised, its same 200-300 hour for all players. That should mean whether you're casual or HC player everyone stays on board.

Im out!

Avenias · November 2015

Sausage wrote: »

My proposition is that every season theres grind for power and it takes like 200-300 hour to do and its required for every player, if you cant do that, dont play MMORPGs, and when next DLC comes and cap is raised, its same 200-300 hour for all players. That should mean whether you're casual or HC player everyone stays on board.

Im out!

200-300 hrs of grind for cp? no ty.

Hateanthem · November 2015

@ 300 hrs that's like 5 hrs a day for two months. That's insane.

stevenbennett_ESO · November 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

Nobody wants their time played to be meaningless.

Hateanthem wrote: »

How does that give incentive to players during DLC " B" or later? It lessens any future content. You aren't "leveling" with your friends, guild mates, or on your own. You are leveled because you earned your rewards for the current DLC in a previous DLC.

That's how huge content gaps are created. People get bored even faster when there is less to currently work for.

I look at quotes like those above and have to shake my head in bewilderment. Look, people, we're playing a game. Your time spent playing the game is never meaningless unless the ONLY reason you want to play it is to level up to maximum as fast as possible.

To me, *THAT* is the boring part. Leveling isn't the only reason to play an MMO. If you're playing an MMO only to level to the highest level possible, why bother? Might as well spend all that time rolling a dozen d20s over and over for no purpose until you roll all 20s, then you've won! Right?

MMOs are about socializing, about playing a role, about exploring a world and finding it's secrets, about hanging back with a fishing pole watching the sun set, about learning lore, about going out and defeating evil, about going out and defeating your friends, about trying new things, about crafting cool things, about sneaking in and making the daring theft, about slaughtering an entire village of innocent people, about rescuing the princess, only to find she's a horrible monster who'll bite your head off, about saving the world, or destroying it. ANY time you spend playing an MMO isn't wasted, even if you have no progression whatsoever, because MMOs aren't really about leveling… they're about the journey.

And if the journey bores you… maybe you should be playing something else.

Alucardo · November 2015

I doubt they are going to earn much past the cap as it slows right down, so by the time they raise it and maybe add another minor catch up mechanic, everyone will be pretty equal in terms of points.
There should always be some kind of goal to achieve. Removing the ability to gain CPs past the current cap destroys this.

Hateanthem · November 2015

You can shake your head all you like, but people who enjoy PvP or dungeon running, might not really want to sit around and watch a fake sunset on a video game. I really recommend going and enjoying the real thing. Everyone enjoys MMOs differently. If someone only has an hour to play in the evening, how often do you think they are going to take the time to mosey along?

The majority of MMO players like having something to work towards. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be rewards for a DLC that hasn't been released yet.

Hateanthem · November 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

I doubt they are going to earn much past the cap as it slows right down, so by the time they raise it and maybe add another minor catch up mechanic, everyone will be pretty equal in terms of points.
There should always be some kind of goal to achieve. Removing the ability to gain CPs past the current cap destroys this.

How?! Seriously no one can tell me how it destroys their goals! How is gaining something you can't use yet, just to decrease the amount of time it takes to reach the next cap, or already having that cap when the next DLC drops, giving you something to work towards?

So by being short sighted and grinding out the stuff the for next DLC now, how are you not putting yourself in the Sam predicament at the beginning of the next patch?

This MMO is going to continue to have a screwed up character advancement system if they keep pandering to console mindsets.

DisgracefulMind · November 2015

Why is it that players continue to want to take things from other players. There is now a catch-up and a cap, why are you trying to suggest ripping away CPs that players have earned before this system was instated? What does it matter to you? The power-gap between players will now be closed extremely every patch, so what's the problem? You are basically telling every player who is above cap that any work they put into the game pre-cap is meaningless and that they should be punished for playing the game.

Get over yourself.

Hateanthem · November 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Why is it that players continue to want to take things from other players. There is now a catch-up and a cap, why are you trying to suggest ripping away CPs that players have earned before this system was instated? What does it matter to you? The power-gap between players will now be closed extremely every patch, so what's the problem? You are basically telling every player who is above cap that any work they put into the game pre-cap is meaningless and that they should be punished for playing the game.

Get over yourself.

Did you play he game to earn CP points or did you play to complete content, enjoy PvP, or RP? I guess you didn't read where players should be compensated for extra CP. You, and those like you, are so full of self interest that you don't see how a system like the current CP system is just bad. It's not about taking things away, its about creating a framework that will continue to work in the future.

Eventually its just not going to work. What happens when you eventually earn so many CPs that there is nothing to spend them on? What then? Will that finally be cap? According to all these people there really is nothing to play for after that. If you can't get them CP's what's the point right?

I know I quit playing games when I can't work towards completion goals for content that hasn't come out yet.

Maybe think about it from a perspective that isn't focused on what you gain, but what would be healthy for a game.

Get over yourself.

Egonieser · November 2015

CP is a result of a whine about having nothing to do. It was frowned upon.
Now the same people whine that some grinders are taking advantage of it and get too powerful. It was frowned upon.

My sugestion to the playerbase, regardless which part of it. Do your research and consider the consequences before you whine, demand, ask for nerfs or generally for anything that would impact the bigger picture, because ZoS has no clue how to do it, as we've seen, and we end up with monstrosities like the CP system, veteran ranks, massive PvP blanket nerfs and uncalled class/skill changes and nerfs and the list goes on.

I understand the call for real gamebreaking problems and issues to be fixed, but many of the other issues could've been avoided if people would just stop being so triggeryhappy about crying out for these things.

DisgracefulMind · November 2015

Hateanthem wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Why is it that players continue to want to take things from other players. There is now a catch-up and a cap, why are you trying to suggest ripping away CPs that players have earned before this system was instated? What does it matter to you? The power-gap between players will now be closed extremely every patch, so what's the problem? You are basically telling every player who is above cap that any work they put into the game pre-cap is meaningless and that they should be punished for playing the game.

Get over yourself.

Did you play he game to earn CP points or did you play to complete content, enjoy PvP, or RP? I guess you didn't read where players should be compensated for extra CP. You, and those like you, are so full of self interest that you don't see how a system like the current CP system is just bad. It's not about taking things away, its about creating a framework that will continue to work in the future.

Eventually its just not going to work. What happens when you eventually earn so many CPs that there is nothing to spend them on? What then? Will that finally be cap? According to all these people there really is nothing to play for after that. If you can't get them CP's what's the point right?

I know I quit playing games when I can't work towards completion goals for content that hasn't come out yet.

Maybe think about it from a perspective that isn't focused on what you gain, but what would be healthy for a game.

Get over yourself.

You don't know anything of what I personally do ingame. Not only do I actively play and compete in PvE content, but I'm also an avid PvP player. My CP has all mostly come from playing this game in all its aspects, and some from leveling a couple toons to continue to do so. There is no self-interest here, I want to game to continue to thrive and be healthy, and it's finally reaching that point. I agree fully with a cap and a catch-up mechanic; it brings new players into the game and gives them a chance to actually be competitive if they choose to be.

However, with the slowed gain after reaching over the cap, I don't think that players gaining CP even with quarterly caps instated will be a problem at all. The final cap is still 3600 CP, and a majority of the players-base, including those of us over this current 501 cap will still take years to hit the max number, if ever. So, again, how is allowing players to keep the CP they earned from the release of the system hurting you in any way, shape, OR form. You have to remember that with each cap raise, it will be easy in the beginning of the patch for players to catch up, again, to the new cap, thus continuing to close power gaps. There really is no problem here. Everyone will actively gain CP, players who are over the cap right now will continue to play anyways, the only real compensation we're given for a system that we've dealt with from 1.6 till now is that they aren't going to tear away the time we've spent. And I'm sorry, 1000 crowns for 100 CP is not appealing to me, and most likely not to anyone else I know who is an active player over the cap. No one here is saying we want a permanent "power advantage", and we're not all evil grinders who lived in a grind spot from 1.6 till now, but I always don't think punishment for playing should be dished out.

You are suggesting punishment for players who have played and will continue to do so, but just so happen to have gained enough xp to be over the cap. No matter how you try to sugar-coat it, this is exactly what this post is asking for. These forums consistently tear apart these players, and it's ridiculous. We're all now on an even ground with the cap.. I don't see any reason to take away anything a player has gained, who has remained loyal to this game.

Ah, and as for "earning so many CPs that there is nothing to spend them on", there will always be a point where you CAN spend your CP, whether that's with the next cap or the cap after, or whatever according to your CP number. Until we all reach 3600, there's really not that possibility. And with a decrease to CP gain after hitting cap for every season, this will still be a long-time goal. So longevity is there.

Again, tell me how I see the current system with a cap and a catch-up mechanic as bad? The previous system without the two, yes, needed to be fixed. I don't think I've ever stated that I thought the system pre-cap was a good thing. Especially as a competitive player, I'm excited for the cap. It means competition is all even-grounds now. I'm just against punishing those who played the game and earned a consistent flow of CP pre-cap.

Hateanthem · November 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Hateanthem wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Why is it that players continue to want to take things from other players. There is now a catch-up and a cap, why are you trying to suggest ripping away CPs that players have earned before this system was instated? What does it matter to you? The power-gap between players will now be closed extremely every patch, so what's the problem? You are basically telling every player who is above cap that any work they put into the game pre-cap is meaningless and that they should be punished for playing the game.

Get over yourself.

Did you play he game to earn CP points or did you play to complete content, enjoy PvP, or RP? I guess you didn't read where players should be compensated for extra CP. You, and those like you, are so full of self interest that you don't see how a system like the current CP system is just bad. It's not about taking things away, its about creating a framework that will continue to work in the future.

Eventually its just not going to work. What happens when you eventually earn so many CPs that there is nothing to spend them on? What then? Will that finally be cap? According to all these people there really is nothing to play for after that. If you can't get them CP's what's the point right?

I know I quit playing games when I can't work towards completion goals for content that hasn't come out yet.

Maybe think about it from a perspective that isn't focused on what you gain, but what would be healthy for a game.

Get over yourself.

You don't know anything of what I personally do ingame. Not only do I actively play and compete in PvE content, but I'm also an avid PvP player. My CP has all mostly come from playing this game in all its aspects, and some from leveling a couple toons to continue to do so. There is no self-interest here, I want to game to continue to thrive and be healthy, and it's finally reaching that point. I agree fully with a cap and a catch-up mechanic; it brings new players into the game and gives them a chance to actually be competitive if they choose to be.

However, with the slowed gain after reaching over the cap, I don't think that players gaining CP even with quarterly caps instated will be a problem at all. The final cap is still 3600 CP, and a majority of the players-base, including those of us over this current 501 cap will still take years to hit the max number, if ever. So, again, how is allowing players to keep the CP they earned from the release of the system hurting you in any way, shape, OR form. You have to remember that with each cap raise, it will be easy in the beginning of the patch for players to catch up, again, to the new cap, thus continuing to close power gaps. There really is no problem here. Everyone will actively gain CP, players who are over the cap right now will continue to play anyways, the only real compensation we're given for a system that we've dealt with from 1.6 till now is that they aren't going to tear away the time we've spent. And I'm sorry, 1000 crowns for 100 CP is not appealing to me, and most likely not to anyone else I know who is an active player over the cap. No one here is saying we want a permanent "power advantage", and we're not all evil grinders who lived in a grind spot from 1.6 till now, but I always don't think punishment for playing should be dished out.

You are suggesting punishment for players who have played and will continue to do so, but just so happen to have gained enough xp to be over the cap. No matter how you try to sugar-coat it, this is exactly what this post is asking for. These forums consistently tear apart these players, and it's ridiculous. We're all now on an even ground with the cap.. I don't see any reason to take away anything a player has gained, who has remained loyal to this game.

Ah, and as for "earning so many CPs that there is nothing to spend them on", there will always be a point where you CAN spend your CP, whether that's with the next cap or the cap after, or whatever according to your CP number. Until we all reach 3600, there's really not that possibility. And with a decrease to CP gain after hitting cap for every season, this will still be a long-time goal. So longevity is there.

Again, tell me how I see the current system with a cap and a catch-up mechanic as bad? The previous system without the two, yes, needed to be fixed. I don't think I've ever stated that I thought the system pre-cap was a good thing. Especially as a competitive player, I'm excited for the cap. It means competition is all even-grounds now. I'm just against punishing those who played the game and earned a consistent flow of CP pre-cap.

(A) I don't think you have CP taken away, I think you should stop continuing to earn it once you have hit the current cap...as in quit earning CP for future DLCs.
(B) IF (that's an if) they take the excess CP away you should be compensated. I said 1000 for 100 or some fair equivalent.
(C) its not punishment. If you feel it is punishment then you fail at looking at the big picture. At some point ZOS will have to quit using CP as a means for endgame. They just will. What happens after they hit 3600 as a DLC cap? Raise it to 3800? Do you realize how big of a turn off that is going to be for future players? "A have to earn 3600 of these points to finally be endgame after such a long grind?" Doesn't really sound too appealing.

I stated in the OP I like that there is a cap, and a catch-up. My issue is constantly being able to earn CP past the cap. It's stupid. It's literally a stupid idea. This is the only MMO whee I've heard players think that earning something now, that can't be used until the next chunk of purchased content is released, is a good idea, or say that If they can't they have nothing to work towards.

Say it is a future DLC and the cap is 1000. Well all the players have been able to earn extra CP for two DLCs and they have 2000 CP lying around. The players (because this is a common scenario, not an oddball occurance) still at 500 CP but working towards cap naturally are behind.

Now the next DLC drops and the cap is at 1500. Boom, tons of players are at CP cap day one and are earning CP that is honestly worthless until they pay ZOS another $30 in two months. The players previously not at cap because they are new to the cap, are now behind 1000 CP from the moment they log in, whit everyone else that was capped earning for the next DLC, and have obvious advantages in PvP, and will for quite awhile

Now if ZOS made an iota of sense, the player with only 500 CP would log in and only be 500 CP behind the other people, WITH a catch-up mechanic. That's how group play and player retention works.

I personally know quite a few people who have quit the game because they felt there would never be a point where they could be competitive, simply because they haven't played since launch.

Capping CP fixes this. Allowing players to continue to earn for future caps negates the fix.

No one wants to start playing a game knowing ahead of time they will not be able to catch up with the other players. MMO have advancement caps to promote competitiveness and group play. They are needed. This is not a single player game where there is nothing to do at level cap. You NEED to have caps, and you need to have resets. When a new DLC comes out, all the players at max level should be working towards the next character cap at the same time.

TequilaFire · November 2015

We have heard enough of this he has more whatever than me dribble.
Just play the game, like any other game.
Catch up to my level 343 in GTAV Online or what ever, only way you can if and when I stop playing.

Hateanthem · November 2015

TequilaFire wrote: »

We have heard enough of this he has more whatever than me dribble.
Just play the game, like any other game.
Catch up to my level 343 in GTAV Online or what ever, only way you can if and when I stop playing.

Congrats on being a high level in a game no one cares about or pertaining to the discussion in any way. I'll get right on trying to catch up.

Epona222 · November 2015

Quick question - does anyone know how much enlightenment we get now? Is it still 1CP's worth (hence variable, depending upon how much xp you need towards a CP now), or is it for the same amount into CPs (400k xp) as it used to be?

Sorry to ask, haven't played much yet due to rollback issues.

Hateanthem · November 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

Quick question - does anyone know how much enlightenment we get now? Is it still 1CP's worth (hence variable, depending upon how much xp you need towards a CP now), or is it for the same amount into CPs (400k xp) as it used to be?

Sorry to ask, haven't played much yet due to rollback issues.

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for that. I didn't notice anything in the patch notes I read.

N0TPLAYER2 · November 2015

Forgive me for being a noob, but with vet 16, do you also continue to earn xp towards a new rank, for when higher levels are released? When people were at vet 14, did they earn all the xp and when vet 16 unlocked they instantly were vet 16? Thanks for the replies.

Also, when you're enlightened, why is that and what causes it? What % are we earning the points higher at?