Should Sorc shields scale of health?

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

I understand sorcs need a shield but i dont think that one class should be able to protect the healing ward as it scales of missing health and is spamable and has small amount of time till the heal comes

Any class can protect a Healing ward with Harness Magicka. It's not a Sorc priviledge. I fight Magicka NBs that do it all the time.

Healing Ward is not the issue for me, it's Harness Magicka. And again that's a problem only against magicka builds.

If a stamina build is struggling against Sorcs, that is strictly a L2P issue. With shield breaker at your disposal, your attacks bypassing harness magicka altogether and having the best burst in the game due to physical damage bias in the game .... yeah you should have 0 complains there.

Yeah as stam i rip through shields i just wish magic people could have same benfit as stam. i get stam does more dmg but has little utilty but magics gotta have something against it

Derra · November 2015

No...

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

Derra · November 2015

No...

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

I understand sorcs need a shield but i dont think that one class should be able to protect the healing ward as it scales of missing health and is spamable and has small amount of time till the heal comes

Any class can protect a Healing ward with Harness Magicka. It's not a Sorc priviledge. I fight Magicka NBs that do it all the time.

Healing Ward is not the issue for me, it's Harness Magicka. And again that's a problem only against magicka builds.

If a stamina build is struggling against Sorcs, that is strictly a L2P issue. With shield breaker at your disposal, your attacks bypassing harness magicka altogether and having the best burst in the game due to physical damage bias in the game .... yeah you should have 0 complains there.

Yeah as stam i rip through shields i just wish magic people could have same benfit as stam. i get stam does more dmg but has little utilty but magics gotta have something against it

They simply need to rework harness magica entirely. Posted that a couple of times. It´s a stupid ability to begin with. The other two armor buffs are universally usefull (but not overpowered) on magica and stamina builds alike - harness magica / dampen magic is purely useful (but borderline op) against magica builds on magica builds.

Maulkin · November 2015

No...

Ok well, first you said don't want to sound like an arse and then you say you rip through shields no problem, but you still want to get hardened ward nerfed. Which makes you sound like an arse in my book. So which one is it?

And stamina has crap load of utility to, I don't know where you get that idea from.

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

Derra · November 2015

No...

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

nordickittyhawk · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

olsborg · November 2015

Hardened ward on its own isnt too much of an issue, but the shieldstacking is, only one shield active at any one time would be a good change imo.

Sotha_Sil · November 2015

No...

the nerfs have to stop

Derra · November 2015

No...

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

Derra · November 2015

No...

olsborg wrote: »

Hardened ward on its own isnt too much of an issue, but the shieldstacking is, only one shield active at any one time would be a good change imo.

Need to change healing ward to something else then as it´s the only available burst singletarget heal for non templars.

Septimus_Magna · November 2015

No...

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

I understand sorcs need a shield but i dont think that one class should be able to protect the healing ward as it scales of missing health and is spamable and has small amount of time till the heal comes

Any class can protect a Healing ward with Harness Magicka. It's not a Sorc priviledge. I fight Magicka NBs that do it all the time.

Healing Ward is not the issue for me, it's Harness Magicka. And again that's a problem only against magicka builds.

If a stamina build is struggling against Sorcs, that is strictly a L2P issue. With shield breaker at your disposal, your attacks bypassing harness magicka altogether and having the best burst in the game due to physical damage bias in the game .... yeah you should have 0 complains there.

Yeah as stam i rip through shields i just wish magic people could have same benfit as stam. i get stam does more dmg but has little utilty but magics gotta have something against it

Its kinda stupid that there are different shields to begin with, its confusing on the UI because there's no visible difference between physical and spell shields but they act different when they get hit. This has been brought up numerous times in multiple threads but the problem still remains the same.

Hardened Ward is the last skill that should be adjusted to fix the shield stacking issue, first re-design healing ward and/or annulment before touching Hardened Ward.

Healing Ward would probably work fine as (smaller) burst heal without shield.

Annulment should also have some benefit against physical dmg, thats the weakness of light armor builds. Just like medium armor offers quite high spell resist to reduce the effectiveness of ranged magic attacks.

Maulkin · November 2015

No...

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

Well you're being even more insulting to my intelligence, so what can I do?

You're a stamblade. You can go for the fotm S&B build with reverb bash and shield breaker and you can be anti-everything. Anti-tank with your fear, anti-healer with reverb bash, anti-Sorc with shield breaker, even anti-NB with Mark Target.

Which is why I find it absolutely ridiculous that we're having probably the strongest class/build in the game at the moment (and definitely the most verstile) , coming here to complain about another class. And then having the gull to admit that you don't have problems against shields actually, you "rip through them" to quote you, but you're just complaining for the heck of it.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

the nerfs have to stop

Sure, and the real fine tuned balancing must begin. But you know, balancing classes means buff some, nerf some... so, nerfs will never stop

Angarato · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Waffennacht wrote: »

What would a magicka sorc do if his shield was health based? Die.

The whole reason Sorcs (magical ones) even survive as is, is because of the shield. We have only one defensive buff, thats 7% mitigation.

We have no massive heal like the others. Like im so surprised when a temp or a DK heals, I go "whoa, if only I could heal that much in one go..." without a pet that is.

If that were to happen Id just roll a NB and pwn more.

nbs dont have shields how will you survive? by using mobility and burst damage. which sorc has plenty off. streak is an amazing ability and using your minefield strategicly so they cant just rush you down. yeah cloak is nice but has many counters. streak doesnt. you're a light armored heavy burst high mobility class that should be your "defense" not the stupid amount of shields that make you more tanky than most dks

Angarato · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

cept for the fact that we cant just pound on you like we do with a dk. streak, mines, proxy det. fearing a dk drops their defense but it doesnt drop yours. dk only have facetanking, their damage is low and their mobility even lower and their defenses are countered by cc.

CyrusArya · November 2015

No...

Sorcs aren't the only ones who can protect healing ward. Magicka NBs can cloak after putting the bubble up then come out of cloak after the heal. I guess cloak needs to be tweaked then huh?

Docmandu · November 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Shield-stacking is an issue and needs getting looked at.

But that is different to you argument which has a huge load of holes in it.

Docmandu wrote: »

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

What is bad is your understanding of top dps. In PvP stamina hits a lot harder due to CP reduction passives on magic damage , higher stacking of weapon damage and better penetration passives provided on DW or 2H. So no Sorc is not the top burst build in PvP, or anywhere near it, by any means.

Top as in top notch.. which doesn't necessarily mean #1 best of the best.. imho something is out of whack if you have a class that disses out serious wtf DPS combined with super tankiness.

Most games you have to make a choice.. go full on DPS and suffer in defense.. or visa versa..

myrrrorb14_ESO · November 2015

No...

All shields should stack with highest ability or just have them at a set number. Having everything scale on health is silly.

Derra · November 2015

No...

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

cept for the fact that we cant just pound on you like we do with a dk. streak, mines, proxy det. fearing a dk drops their defense but it doesnt drop yours. dk only have facetanking, their damage is low and their mobility even lower and their defenses are countered by cc.

Do you guys even read?

I´m figuring all these things in. The only thing keeping a sorc ahead of a dk in terms of survival is bolt escape.
The argument was sorc can just facetank with shields - which is true to some extend but other classes can do that MUCH better and for a DK also holds true for a build doing the same as sorcs (stacking their offensive resource).

Angarato · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Derra wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

cept for the fact that we cant just pound on you like we do with a dk. streak, mines, proxy det. fearing a dk drops their defense but it doesnt drop yours. dk only have facetanking, their damage is low and their mobility even lower and their defenses are countered by cc.

Do you guys even read?

I´m figuring all these things in. The only thing keeping a sorc ahead of a dk in terms of survival is bolt escape.
The argument was sorc can just facetank with shields - which is true to some extend but other classes can do that MUCH better and for a DK also holds true for a build doing the same as sorcs (stacking their offensive resource).

yeah we do read. some dks can indeed outtank a sorc. but he cant do it in his top dps build. thats the problem thats why sorc is op. its not JUST the shield stacking. its the fact you can do everything without giving anything up to achieve this. tanky dks do no damage and thus put up no pressure and we can just stand there and pound on him. you cant do that vs a sorc cause you will die. why dont you sorcs get this. if it was JUSt the tankiness and surviablity and low damage it would be fine. sorcs can do some serious *** burst that any other tanky class just cant do.

magicka nbs are pretty survivable too. but they dont do anywhere near the burst a sorc can pull off.
DK's can do some nice burst damage. but those dks are squishier than even my nb cause theyre wearing medium armor
templars can be scary sometimes but they can be bursted down.
stamblades do sick damage but take just as many. theyre actually the first 1 i go for as a stamblade myself cause they die within seconds.

so no what keeps you alive is not JUST your bolt escape. its the fact that your damage puts too much pressure to just dps you down like you do with dks.

a little clip i recorded. coincidence that it was actually you :P.
disclaimer: yea you are def a good player too no doubt about it and I could have played it better and it was a 2v1 so i'm not bragging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-PSps2i4s

Derra · November 2015

No...

As i´ve stated. A stamina DK can outtank a sorc in their top dps build currently.

I´m out. People do not read.

Oh yeah. I remember that. I was in pve gear with (noticed i´m switchting to drinks atleast when you attack me) and pve skill loadout. Also i did not add you when you were fighting the other DC. Classy move to attack the spectator afterwards. THANKS A LOT!

RoamingRiverElk · November 2015

No...

ToRelax wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Yes, it should be based off of health. Every shield and every mitigating skill should be based off of health. Its pretty ridiculous that damage dealers get better mitigation than tanks. Period. Either that or they need to get rid of damage bonuses scaling off of magicka/stamina. The only people who get jolly off of a gigantic magic shield with high magicka are people who have it way too easy as spellcasters.

Maybe something should be done about the "tanks" then, if they are so easy to kill...

Oh, I know, I know! What if...

What IF...

We gave tanks the ability to gain stamina regeneration while blocking?

ToRelax · November 2015

No...

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

cept for the fact that we cant just pound on you like we do with a dk. streak, mines, proxy det. fearing a dk drops their defense but it doesnt drop yours. dk only have facetanking, their damage is low and their mobility even lower and their defenses are countered by cc.

Do you guys even read?

I´m figuring all these things in. The only thing keeping a sorc ahead of a dk in terms of survival is bolt escape.
The argument was sorc can just facetank with shields - which is true to some extend but other classes can do that MUCH better and for a DK also holds true for a build doing the same as sorcs (stacking their offensive resource).

yeah we do read. some dks can indeed outtank a sorc. but he cant do it in his top dps build. thats the problem thats why sorc is op. its not JUST the shield stacking. its the fact you can do everything without giving anything up to achieve this. tanky dks do no damage and thus put up no pressure and we can just stand there and pound on him. you cant do that vs a sorc cause you will die. why dont you sorcs get this. if it was JUSt the tankiness and surviablity and low damage it would be fine. sorcs can do some serious *** burst that any other tanky class just cant do.

magicka nbs are pretty survivable too. but they dont do anywhere near the burst a sorc can pull off.
DK's can do some nice burst damage. but those dks are squishier than even my nb cause theyre wearing medium armor
templars can be scary sometimes but they can be bursted down.
stamblades do sick damage but take just as many. theyre actually the first 1 i go for as a stamblade myself cause they die within seconds.

so no what keeps you alive is not JUST your bolt escape. its the fact that your damage puts too much pressure to just dps you down like you do with dks.

a little clip i recorded. coincidence that it was actually you :P.
disclaimer: yea you are def a good player too no doubt about it and I could have played it better and it was a 2v1 so i'm not bragging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-PSps2i4s

A DK who can't tank a Sorc is not a very good DK. If a Sorc is speccing into high damage, he is giving up sustain for that. If a DK is speccing into damage - same.

I'd also be careful saying magicka NBs have less burst than Sorcs. They do not have Curse and Fragments, but they do have Fear, Assassin's Will, a the better finisher and damage bonus from Cloak/Swarm.
What keeps a Sorc alive is at least Bolt Escape and and shields - not only one of them - and for more survivability you can add buffs like Boundless Storm, Shuffle, Defensive Rune.

Xeven · November 2015

No...

Derra wrote: »

I´m out. People do not read.

We just have to ignore these people tbh. Everything already fully penetrates shields and light armor. You can burst a sorc down pretty easily depending on the sorc. There are some DK/Templar/NB builds that you will never burst down.

Relative to the other classes, our defense and damage is lower than the rest. (Magicka Sorc)

Angarato · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Derra wrote: »

As i´ve stated. A stamina DK can outtank a sorc in their top dps build currently.

I´m out. People do not read.

Oh yeah. I remember that. I was in pve gear with (noticed i´m switchting to drinks atleast when you attack me) and pve skill loadout. Also i did not add you when you were fighting the other DC. Classy move to attack the spectator afterwards. THANKS A LOT!

Also what could i have done better without detect pots...

Wow - just wow.

like i said i wasnt bragging. and wow you could do that with your pve gear and your pve loudout. that makes it even worse.

Maulkin · November 2015

No...

Angarato wrote: »

yeah we do read. some dks can indeed outtank a sorc. but he cant do it in his top dps build. thats the problem thats why sorc is op. its not JUST the shield stacking. its the fact you can do everything without giving anything up to achieve this. tanky dks do no damage and thus put up no pressure and we can just stand there and pound on him. you cant do that vs a sorc cause you will die. why dont you sorcs get this. if it was JUSt the tankiness and surviablity and low damage it would be fine. sorcs can do some serious *** burst that any other tanky class just cant do.

I'm gonna return some advice, similar to what I've been given from NBs all this time about cloak and slotting radiant magelight. Here goes...

It's a L2P issue. Equip shield-breaker and the tankiness is gone. All the Sorc then has is a heavily nerfed Bolt Escape. You're welcome

Angarato · November 2015

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

ToRelax wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

cept for the fact that we cant just pound on you like we do with a dk. streak, mines, proxy det. fearing a dk drops their defense but it doesnt drop yours. dk only have facetanking, their damage is low and their mobility even lower and their defenses are countered by cc.

Do you guys even read?

I´m figuring all these things in. The only thing keeping a sorc ahead of a dk in terms of survival is bolt escape.
The argument was sorc can just facetank with shields - which is true to some extend but other classes can do that MUCH better and for a DK also holds true for a build doing the same as sorcs (stacking their offensive resource).

yeah we do read. some dks can indeed outtank a sorc. but he cant do it in his top dps build. thats the problem thats why sorc is op. its not JUST the shield stacking. its the fact you can do everything without giving anything up to achieve this. tanky dks do no damage and thus put up no pressure and we can just stand there and pound on him. you cant do that vs a sorc cause you will die. why dont you sorcs get this. if it was JUSt the tankiness and surviablity and low damage it would be fine. sorcs can do some serious *** burst that any other tanky class just cant do.

magicka nbs are pretty survivable too. but they dont do anywhere near the burst a sorc can pull off.
DK's can do some nice burst damage. but those dks are squishier than even my nb cause theyre wearing medium armor
templars can be scary sometimes but they can be bursted down.
stamblades do sick damage but take just as many. theyre actually the first 1 i go for as a stamblade myself cause they die within seconds.

so no what keeps you alive is not JUST your bolt escape. its the fact that your damage puts too much pressure to just dps you down like you do with dks.

a little clip i recorded. coincidence that it was actually you :P.
disclaimer: yea you are def a good player too no doubt about it and I could have played it better and it was a 2v1 so i'm not bragging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-PSps2i4s

A DK who can't tank a Sorc is not a very good DK. If a Sorc is speccing into high damage, he is giving up sustain for that. If a DK is speccing into damage - same.
I'd also be careful saying magicka NBs have less burst than Sorcs. They do not have Curse and Fragments, but they do have Fear, Assassin's Will, a the better finisher and damage bonus from Cloak/Swarm.
What keeps a Sorc alive is at least Bolt Escape and and shields - not only one of them - and for more survivability you can add buffs like Boundless Storm, Shuffle, Defensive Rune.

are you honestly suggesting stamina dk is on the same level as a magicka sorc? lol

Ezareth · November 2015

No...

Angarato wrote: »

yeah we do read. some dks can indeed outtank a sorc. but he cant do it in his top dps build. thats the problem thats why sorc is op. its not JUST the shield stacking. its the fact you can do everything without giving anything up to achieve this. tanky dks do no damage and thus put up no pressure and we can just stand there and pound on him. you cant do that vs a sorc cause you will die. why dont you sorcs get this. if it was JUSt the tankiness and surviablity and low damage it would be fine. sorcs can do some serious *** burst that any other tanky class just cant do.

magicka nbs are pretty survivable too. but they dont do anywhere near the burst a sorc can pull off.
DK's can do some nice burst damage. but those dks are squishier than even my nb cause theyre wearing medium armor
templars can be scary sometimes but they can be bursted down.
stamblades do sick damage but take just as many. theyre actually the first 1 i go for as a stamblade myself cause they die within seconds.

Show me the Sorc that can do what happens at the beginning of this clip. You can't, but you don't hear me crying nerf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avUVi6DvMYw

Different classes have different strengths and weaknesses. I could point out the strengths of every other class in the same argument you're trying against sorcs.

It's a L2P issue, plain and simple. Shields are fine right now, making Sorc damage shields scale off of health would completely gimp the class. If you're having issues against sorcs then equip a shield breaker set and go easy mode like the rest of the bads.

Also if you think stamblades die easily you're fighting bad stamblades. If you're running sword and board and have a proper setup a stamina NB is one of the hardest classes to kill in the game right now.

If they're a garbage can ambush spammer who relies upon cloak as their only defensive option then yeah, easy kill. Most nightblades are just bad players, it's not the class.

ToRelax · November 2015

No...

Angarato wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.

Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.

You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.

Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.

So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?

Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.

Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P

Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.

Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.

It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.

A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.

Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"

Well you´re not sounding like a d*ck. You´re just sounding uneducated.
Huge part of sorcs survivability is still movement related. If you´re facetanking dmg a stam DK, heavy armor magica DK or templar is far more durable atm.

well thats just insultive saying that... but no i think your wrong... as im a NB so im a counter to tanks.

I don´t talk about tanks. I´m talking about dps stamina DKs which happen to be tankier than sorcs atm.

well your a sorc... so they have wings n all that stuff while me i have fear so i dont have 1 problem with em so eh more of class weakness i guess? rock paper scissors?

I´m not talking about trying to kill one on a sorc. I´m talking on both getting a beating by the same grp of players. While the sorc has a higher chance of escaping - IF both players just facetank the dmg using shields / heals the stam dk is going to be alive for quite some time after the sorc is dead.

cept for the fact that we cant just pound on you like we do with a dk. streak, mines, proxy det. fearing a dk drops their defense but it doesnt drop yours. dk only have facetanking, their damage is low and their mobility even lower and their defenses are countered by cc.

Do you guys even read?

I´m figuring all these things in. The only thing keeping a sorc ahead of a dk in terms of survival is bolt escape.
The argument was sorc can just facetank with shields - which is true to some extend but other classes can do that MUCH better and for a DK also holds true for a build doing the same as sorcs (stacking their offensive resource).

yeah we do read. some dks can indeed outtank a sorc. but he cant do it in his top dps build. thats the problem thats why sorc is op. its not JUST the shield stacking. its the fact you can do everything without giving anything up to achieve this. tanky dks do no damage and thus put up no pressure and we can just stand there and pound on him. you cant do that vs a sorc cause you will die. why dont you sorcs get this. if it was JUSt the tankiness and surviablity and low damage it would be fine. sorcs can do some serious *** burst that any other tanky class just cant do.

magicka nbs are pretty survivable too. but they dont do anywhere near the burst a sorc can pull off.
DK's can do some nice burst damage. but those dks are squishier than even my nb cause theyre wearing medium armor
templars can be scary sometimes but they can be bursted down.
stamblades do sick damage but take just as many. theyre actually the first 1 i go for as a stamblade myself cause they die within seconds.

so no what keeps you alive is not JUST your bolt escape. its the fact that your damage puts too much pressure to just dps you down like you do with dks.

a little clip i recorded. coincidence that it was actually you :P.
disclaimer: yea you are def a good player too no doubt about it and I could have played it better and it was a 2v1 so i'm not bragging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-PSps2i4s

A DK who can't tank a Sorc is not a very good DK. If a Sorc is speccing into high damage, he is giving up sustain for that. If a DK is speccing into damage - same.
I'd also be careful saying magicka NBs have less burst than Sorcs. They do not have Curse and Fragments, but they do have Fear, Assassin's Will, a the better finisher and damage bonus from Cloak/Swarm.
What keeps a Sorc alive is at least Bolt Escape and and shields - not only one of them - and for more survivability you can add buffs like Boundless Storm, Shuffle, Defensive Rune.

are you honestly suggesting stamina dk is on the same level as a magicka sorc? lol

I haven't said anything like that. The only thing I said about stam DKs is that they give up sustain if they spec into damage and that it's the same for Sorcs.
But since you are so interested in what I think about stam DKs - I think both stam DKs and magicka Sorcs have situations in wich they perform better than the other. For Solo open world I'd prefer Sorc so I can kite and pick my fights better. For duels I'd go stam DK for the healing debuff, cc and ignoring Harness. For a group I'd like magicka Sorc for support or stam DK for AoE damage.