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Should Sorc shields scale of health?
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No...Then sorcs would dump all points into health, take defensive skills and never die.1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Then sorcs would dump all points into health, take defensive skills and never die.
It would bring about the actual controller class and archetype, something ESO is sorely missing.0331
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k2blader✭✭✭✭✭No...How about instead of continuously pursuing nerfs to a class you are biased against, make posts on how you think your class/build needs to be buffed?
It is simply butt-a**-stupid to single out sorc's ONE class shield and primary defense mechanism for yet another unneeded nerf. It's been nerfed enough this last update and has adequately decreased the survivability of no to low CP'd sorcs whom poor players apparently had a hard time killing in 1.6.
Folks like you can't seem to comprehend it is the lower CP'd sorcs-- hardly the folks who need to be further weakened-- who need to shield stack in order to survive longer than a few seconds and have a bit of fun in PvP. If you are so against them, you desperately need to become a better player; though that is already evident from your poll.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.2 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...It's a bit rediculous to whine about the way sorc shields scale when you consider it is a flat value rather than a percentage based shield value.Edited by Cathexis on November 2, 2015 7:45AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
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CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...To all the people saying "they should work like every other shield", all I have to say is this. One of the coolest aspects of this game to me is that each class has certain unique elements and dynamics to them that define the play style. Every class has some special ability or skill that is exclusive to that class. For sorcs, their magical and special shield is one of those essential designs that define that playstyle. It's what make sorcs special and fabulous. As others have pointed out, while other class have their own exclusive methods for survival and mitigation, sorcs only have 1 viable technique. And as such, sorcs magicka shields are justified. Stop trying to make the game boring and generic by robbing classes of their unique abilities.
Maybe as someone who plays multiple classes I have a more objective perspective than some of you guys. But from my experience playing as a sorc and against sorcs, hardened ward is not broken. Not when Stam builds exist with the power to shred that shield in simply 2 hits.
Another thing I want people to keep in mind is this. I know a lot of y'all get butthurt cus you came across an OP player of X class, so you come to the forums to cry about it in hopes of a nerf. But I'm telling you, more often than not it's the player and their specific OP build that is your problem, not the class or ability. When you call for these sweeping nerfs to a class. Bare in mind who it's gonna devestate: the average majority of the class. Not the OP players that are causing you grief. Essentially, you will make the class unplayable for the average player to spite the top performers. Not cool or healthy for the game.
You of all people nordickittyhawk should see the problem with this line of thinking, unless you are a major hypocrite. The calls for nerf to cloak ring a bell? We all know those cries for nerfing cloak are a reaction to the very skilled NBs. But in my experience, your average NB in cyro needs cloak as it is for their dear life. Should cloak be nerfed for everyone to spite the extremely skilled NBs? The answer to that is the same as the answer to this question regarding hardened ward.
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k2blader✭✭✭✭✭No...To all the people saying "they should work like every other shield", all I have to say is this. One of the coolest aspects of this game to me is that each class has certain unique elements and dynamics to them that define the play style. Every class has some special ability or skill that is exclusive to that class. For sorcs, their magical and special shield is one of those essential designs that define that playstyle. It's what make sorcs special and fabulous. As others have pointed out, while other class have their own exclusive methods for survival and mitigation, sorcs only have 1 viable technique. And as such, sorcs magicka shields are justified. Stop trying to make the game boring and generic by robbing classes of their unique abilities.
Maybe as someone who plays multiple classes I have a more objective perspective than some of you guys. But from my experience playing as a sorc and against sorcs, hardened ward is not broken. Not when Stam builds exist with the power to shred that shield in simply 2 hits.
Another thing I want people to keep in mind is this. I know a lot of y'all get butthurt cus you came across an OP player of X class, so you come to the forums to cry about it in hopes of a nerf. But I'm telling you, more often than not it's the player and their specific OP build that is your problem, not the class or ability. When you call for these sweeping nerfs to a class. Bare in mind who it's gonna devestate: the average majority of the class. Not the OP players that are causing you grief. Essentially, you will make the class unplayable for the average player to spite the top performers. Not cool or healthy for the game.
You of all people nordickittyhawk should see the problem with this line of thinking, unless you are a major hypocrite. The calls for nerf to cloak ring a bell? We all know those cries for nerfing cloak are a reaction to the very skilled NBs. But in my experience, your average NB in cyro needs cloak as it is for their dear life. Should cloak be nerfed for everyone to spite the extremely skilled NBs? The answer to that is the same as the answer to this question regarding hardened ward.
All so very well said, and worth the full re-quote with a little bolding.
/salute
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No...The shield "stacking" problem is caused by harness and a bit by healing ward.
Sorc has no other class based defense apart from that shield, aswell as no great synergies with the other defensive option (restoration staff). Unlike Templars or DKs who get massive selfheals or great passive heals on abilities aswell as a powerful healing buff working great with resto staff.
If you´re still struggeling to kill a magica sorc with a stamina build currently you´re doing it wrong.
Everyone still struggeling as a magica build: Ask ZOS to remove shieldstacking and get f*cking rid of harnesstrolololmagica (that´s where your issue derive from).
(I can kill sorcs on my ranged build magica NB, arguably one of the classes with the least amount of burstdmg available)Edited by Derra on November 2, 2015 8:40AM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Cinnamon_Spider✭✭✭✭✭
✭No...The issue is not the sorcerer class shield. The issue people face is Healing Ward.Cinn #SorcLivesMatter
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Johngo0036✭✭✭✭✭No...No!!!
This is the beginning of another nerf sorcs thread and i dont believe that nerfing anything is the right approach..
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...Oh what is this, a thread by a NB asking for nerfs to other classes? Well I am so surprised, this never ever happens!!EU | PC | AD2 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Oh what is this, a thread by a NB asking for nerfs to other classes? Well I am so surprised, this never ever happens!!
I don't think it's nbs voting for yes, bursting through a sorc shield with surprise attack is much easier than doing the same with whip or puncturing sweep.Edited by lolo_01b16_ESO on November 2, 2015 9:46AM1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭sure if you strip both other classes with class shields of any healing and protection option that excells that of a sorc.
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭No...A poll that merely discovers the proportion of the class-ignorant in the forum population.1
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Elara_Northwind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'I voted yes, but actually don't think it would be an issue if hardened ward couldn't be stacked with other shields. I am completely against nerfing skills but perhaps if there was a way for the sorcerer shield to somehow counter other shields it could solve the problem that so many people face, idk... Fights against a sorcerer can last a frustratingly long time with cit surge in conjunction with a zillion shields
I am not being biased, as I have a vet16 sorcerer myself, but I do believe that sorcerers have an unfair advantage over other classes in some respects, as it can be very time consuming to do any damage to them.
Edited by Elara_Northwind on November 2, 2015 10:09AMSorcerer, Templar, Wolf Collector, Housing Addict!
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contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'I sayed yes because i think shields in this game needs a rework, shields should work like major/minor buffs for every class, with different side effects and synergies between those. To be clear, i do play a sorcerer, a nb and a templar, so i don't call a nerf or rework to see my main becoming better than other classes, just to have a more balance game, wich is absolutly not for now.
Explainations in detail here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/fr/discussion/215648/a-smart-and-fair-solution-for-shield-stacking-and-shield-breaker-set-changes/p1Edited by contact.opiumb16_ESO on November 2, 2015 10:39AM2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Oh what is this, a thread by a NB asking for nerfs to other classes? Well I am so surprised, this never ever happens!!
I don't think it's nbs voting for yes, bursting through a sorc shield with surprise attack is much easier than doing the same with whip or puncturing sweep.
I don't know where you are struggling with this.
The OP is a NB. He/She created a thread about nerfing Sorcs despite having the best class in-game right now in both magicka and stamina variants. Hence my comment.EU | PC | AD0 -
iTzStevey✭✭✭No...Hardened ward isn't that great for me tbh, 1 or two hits depending on who im against and its gone, dunno wether thats down to CP or gear though.
But no,it shouldn't scale off health simply because it is now our only viable defensive ability, you cant use streak alot anymore unless you wanna die because you're OOM.0 -
iTzStevey✭✭✭No...dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Yes, it should be based off of health. Every shield and every mitigating skill should be based off of health. Its pretty ridiculous that damage dealers get better mitigation than tanks. Period. Either that or they need to get rid of damage bonuses scaling off of magicka/stamina. The only people who get jolly off of a gigantic magic shield with high magicka are people who have it way too easy as spellcasters.
Sorcs are no where near tanks since update 7, you must be playing against sorcs that know when to re-apply shields, oh and the shields aren't gigantic atall. XD
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No...dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Yes, it should be based off of health. Every shield and every mitigating skill should be based off of health. Its pretty ridiculous that damage dealers get better mitigation than tanks. Period. Either that or they need to get rid of damage bonuses scaling off of magicka/stamina. The only people who get jolly off of a gigantic magic shield with high magicka are people who have it way too easy as spellcasters.
Maybe something should be done about the "tanks" then, if they are so easy to kill...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No...Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?
Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.
Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :PEdited by Derra on November 2, 2015 12:13PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?
Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.
Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P
Breath of Life scaling with your HP? Templars will go crazy
EU | PC | AD0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?
Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.
Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P
Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No...Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?
Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.
Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P
Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.
Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.
It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.
A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.Edited by Derra on November 2, 2015 1:01PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.
Shield-stacking is an issue and needs getting looked at.
But that is different to you argument which has a huge load of holes in it.Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
What is bad is your understanding of top dps. In PvP stamina hits a lot harder due to CP reduction passives on magic damage , higher stacking of weapon damage and better penetration passives provided on DW or 2H. So no Sorc is not the top burst build in PvP, or anywhere near it, by any means.
Secondly, that awesome shield can be very easily bypassed by shieldbreaker so that hardly makes it the best defense anymore. It makes it the best defense only if you're not built with any counters to it. Like me going against a DK with only projectiles on my bar and then QQing why I can't kill him.
The stamina heals you deride when coupled with dodge-rolling, passive dodge chance, higher armor-spell res and some class specific defenses, are very very strong atm.
Again, like I said, many other defenses like Templar's BoL scale with Spell Damage and Max Magicka. So if Hardened Ward scaling off Magicka is an issue, so is that.
EDIT: Stacking Harness Magicka or Hardened Ward is OP against magicka builds and it's an issue. I've always maintained that position.Edited by Maulkin on November 2, 2015 1:10PMEU | PC | AD2 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'Id say yes but just with a few adaptions to the current pvp situation: 50% more health for all. Im really tired of that 1 shot meta and dk/templar shields just suck because the health pool was nerved. But sorc shields should stay stronger than Dk and Templar ones because they have extra effects coming with their shields other than pure defense.Edited by Springt-Über-Zwerge on November 2, 2015 1:14PMPC,EU, EP
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nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'So what im getting from everyone (well mostly the sorcs) is that the "shield stacking" problem (if you wish to call it that) Is mostly causes by the healing ward... See im seeing sorcs calling out this skill to being BS as seems like they cant even kill each other.
"low health, puts healing ward on, then hard ward, then light armor skill" how can stop the healing? i understand sorcs need a shield but i dont think that one class should be able to protect the healing ward as it scales of missing health and is spamable and has small amount of time till the heal comes. See the problem with that skill is that you can use that n bolt escape n come back 100% shields and health. a gap closer cant break through all 3 shields fast enough to stop the heal.
So all i can say is im not calling a nerf but a tweak is in order i mean im even hearing sorcs saying it could use tweaking.2 -
nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?
Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.
Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P
Show me a spammable stamina heal combo that covers your entire health bar, and we'll talk again.
Show me the sorc shield that covers their entire health bar.
It´s stacking shields that can achieve that at best. Would you be happier if sorc shield would function like vigor. A sot (shield over time) giving you a 2.5 to 3.5k shield (still talking unmitigated dmg here) every second building up (oh and make it an aoe then too).
That would be fun! Especially as you´d have more time to be on the offense.
A stam player can be just as tanky as a sorc (in fact stam DKs are a hell of a lot tankier than a sorc can ever hope to be in the current meta). Their best offensive weapon set right now is also their best defensive one (s&b). Their defensive heals scale of their main resource AND their offensive stat.
Uhm... but vigor is a heal u can out dps that.... a shield protects your health and i dont wanna sound like a *** but... sorcs in pvp are more tanky than any other class n you what worst part is "they dont even need to block"
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No...nordickittyhawk wrote: »I understand sorcs need a shield but i dont think that one class should be able to protect the healing ward as it scales of missing health and is spamable and has small amount of time till the heal comes
Any class can protect a Healing ward with Harness Magicka. It's not a Sorc priviledge. I fight Magicka NBs that do it all the time.
Healing Ward is not the issue for me, it's Harness Magicka. And again that's a problem only against magicka builds.
If a stamina build is struggling against Sorcs, that is strictly a L2P issue. With shield breaker at your disposal, your attacks bypassing harness magicka altogether and having the best burst in the game due to physical damage bias in the game .... yeah you should have 0 complains there.EU | PC | AD2 -
contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Dunno.. it has to be useful, but at the moment it's stupid when you see sorcs that have bigger shields than their own health bar. Fact that shields make you crit immune doesn't help, or that Hardy also reduces damage to shields.
Top DPS with Top Defense = bad design.
You want WTF DPS? You should trade that for defense.
Currently you can have both... same problem as with pre-nerf DKs.
So stamina heals should no longer scale with wpnpower/maxstam as i take it?
Because currently stamina heals work in the same way as the sorc shields.
Well every heal does - but most of the time stam players are complaining. Change all the heals to scale on health :P
Breath of Life scaling with your HP? Templars will go crazy
As a stamplar i'd be ok with it
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