Give me reasons, why you want veteran ranks gone...

LokoMatic · October 2015

lumidragon wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I want the Veteran Ranks increased to 32.

I like this idea! Though I'm not a Vet yet (still leveling my first character).

Also I really don't see the problem, I think the Vet system is cool. I was really looking forward to becoming a vet.
Now I'll have to wonder what's there to look forward to :'( .

We need more of people like yourself, who can grasp the concept of a long term mmo, and its character progression.

Thank you for this refreshment.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

LokoMatic wrote: »

lumidragon wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I want the Veteran Ranks increased to 32.

I like this idea! Though I'm not a Vet yet (still leveling my first character).

Also I really don't see the problem, I think the Vet system is cool. I was really looking forward to becoming a vet.
Now I'll have to wonder what's there to look forward to :'( .

We need more of people like yourself, who can grasp the concept of a long term mmo, and its character progression.

Thank you for this refreshment.

That's a rather funny thing to say. Other MMO's that have actually stood the test of time and still have more subscribers/players don't have VR.

In fact it's rather odd that you would would point to the very thing that caused so many people to leave in the early months and use it as a concept for the longevity of an MMO!

Also you clearly demonstrate, like so many others that you don't even understand what people are saying. No one wants to remove progression. People do not want to progress in such a way that you have to play three factions storylines to do so.

Callous2208 · October 2015

In my experience with mmos, the faster people hit end game, the faster they quit playing. I mean, end game is the end of the game. What makes anyone think the guy who can't be bothered to level his character up now, is going to sit through end game gear grinds if he gets there super fast? When this happens in the big successful sub based mmos, you get a large population of players who quit and unsub until the next expansion. That's not good for eso.

LokoMatic · October 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

lumidragon wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I want the Veteran Ranks increased to 32.

I like this idea! Though I'm not a Vet yet (still leveling my first character).

Also I really don't see the problem, I think the Vet system is cool. I was really looking forward to becoming a vet.
Now I'll have to wonder what's there to look forward to :'( .

We need more of people like yourself, who can grasp the concept of a long term mmo, and its character progression.

Thank you for this refreshment.

That's a rather funny thing to say. Other MMO's that have actually stood the test of time and still have more subscribers/players don't have VR.

In fact it's rather odd that you would would point to the very thing that caused so many people to leave in the early months and use it as a concept for the longevity of an MMO!

Also you clearly demonstrate, like so many others that you don't even understand what people are saying. No one wants to remove progression. People do not want to progress in such a way that you have to play three factions storylines to do so.

As you clearly demonstrate, not every single person goes through caldwell's gold to level.

I didn't realize zenimax was forcing people to level up in only 1 way.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

LokoMatic wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

lumidragon wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I want the Veteran Ranks increased to 32.

I like this idea! Though I'm not a Vet yet (still leveling my first character).

Also I really don't see the problem, I think the Vet system is cool. I was really looking forward to becoming a vet.
Now I'll have to wonder what's there to look forward to :'( .

We need more of people like yourself, who can grasp the concept of a long term mmo, and its character progression.

Thank you for this refreshment.

That's a rather funny thing to say. Other MMO's that have actually stood the test of time and still have more subscribers/players don't have VR.

In fact it's rather odd that you would would point to the very thing that caused so many people to leave in the early months and use it as a concept for the longevity of an MMO!

Also you clearly demonstrate, like so many others that you don't even understand what people are saying. No one wants to remove progression. People do not want to progress in such a way that you have to play three factions storylines to do so.

As you clearly demonstrate, not every single person goes through caldwell's gold to level.

I didn't realize zenimax was forcing people to level up in only 1 way.

Now you being ridiculous. Have you not noticed that they keep nerfing grinding spots? And regardless of what quests you do or don't do you are still part of another faction if you are simply in that Zone. You will NEVER see another faction outside of Cyrodiil, no matter where you are standing.

Are you honestly saying that is good for the longevity of the game?

Rioht · October 2015

Because I am sick of games that focus on tiered incentive systems that force players to waste their time and efforts in game on specific activities that they do not want to play.

When each new increase of VR levels, we are continually removing the relevance of vast portions of the game that many players previously enjoyed, and new players will never experience.

For example, take the trials and dragon star arena.

With the latest increase of VR and gear (without the scaling of previous content) we saw trials, non vet dungeons, craglorn and cyrodil all take a step into the shadows as ONLY iC offered new gear and itemization. Well, not entirely, you can still rarely find v16 materials, but all new sets and the only relevant v16 sets are IC content only.

Removal of VR's may not even fix this. By introducing gear tiers (aka like destiny does) you end up with the exact sane system just under a different guise.

For the vr rank removal to be truly effective, they need to scale ALL content and gear to the same level and not create new tiers with the introduction of new content.

New DLC would offer NEW optionsnfor builds, new styles, new weapon types, new game activities. Where new DLC gear is not the end all in build variety.

Trial gear would be an option, arena gear would be an option, PvP gear would be an option, open world drops would be an option. No sets would be the absolute best option, but each would present interesting mechanics and compliments to specific game styles.

Players wouldn't be forced to play content they don't want to (I.e., grind the sewers) of they just wanted to solo quest, PvP, do dungeons with friends. They could play the game ANYWAY they wanted, and still be doing "endgame" content.

pilks4k · October 2015

As a new player I found the VR system confusion I jump from 49 to VR1 and was asking what happened to 50?? When I was told VR1 is 50 I thought to myself well thats stupid why not just call it 50 and go up to level 65... it made no sense to me and still does not... drop VR ranks go to rank 65 sort the gear out to reflect the new levels and in the future when you want to up the level cap its a lot simpler to do...

Tholian1 · October 2015

Cadwell's Silver and Gold is the reason for me.

Only one character should have to endure that. Any character you create after that should be able to easily progress without it.

Pirhana7_ESO · October 2015

Runaan wrote: »

... because you people are driving me crazy about how badly you want it gone. Is it because you wanna max out your characters and vet. ranks are a blockade to you? Is there even any serious or at least understandable reason to undergo this significant change? IMO VR are a cool feature, nice change compared to other MMOs that only have regular levels.

I need to get this frustration of mine out as it has been around for too long, many people simply going with the herd and just shouting "REMOVE VET RANKS OMFG" while they usually can't justify their "own" opinion on their own.

For quite some time, it has been just somewhat of a rumour, this removing of VR. But recently when I saw ZOS' confirmation that they are working on it and do have it planned, it made me post this thread. One question popped in my head.

Why?

Us, those who don't want VR removed want to hear clear and justifiable reasons, that are reasonable enough for us to go with it, either from ZOS or some other hardheaded players, that surely have enough to say to this topic (even though they might've already said enough).

edit: Just to clear things out, as I was reading through the posts, I was being looked at as the one, who wants them removed. That is not the case. I want Veteran Ranks to stay and I like them as they are.

The biggest reason is ALOT of people play this for the Cyrodiil endgame. the idea was that you reach level 50 then you are on equal grounds with everyone else while gear and alliance ranks would be your progression to make you a little stronger. The problem is Vet Ranks add a huge power difference. Leveling up your Vet ranks is not something you can do threw PVP very fast. PVEing threw the story quest and completing the maps in the enemy alliance is about 10X faster. So to be on equal grounds in PVP you must spend a rediculous amount of time doing the PVE content from enemy alliances that you did not want to do. Vet ranks also cause problems with NPC levels weather they are the guards in Cyrodiil or anything from the other 50+ zones. IF everything Vet level is reduced to level 50 then you are fighting the max level NPCs and getting the max level drops or resources.

I personally have 6 friends that quit playing that already said they will return when vet ranks are removed so they can play in Cyrodiil without being forced to play PVE storylines to be at equal power to enemy players.

Also the whoel reason Champs levels were added was to get rid of Vet levels and the problems they caused with different levels

Genomic · October 2015

Pallmor wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

Based on the video that is linked in this forum, they are removing and replacing with the champion system.

Yeah, the Champion System that was so broken when they introduced it that they've had to desperately spackle over it with a cap and catch-up mechanic just to keep it from hopelessly borking the game.

Honestly, who didn't see that coming? (the devs, apparently)

i3ig_Gun · October 2015

EARN IT newcomers...

MMO's have never been about just HANDING it to the players... (except wow after LK)

We real life VETS (been here since early release) Have earned our ranks/gear/achievements

Earn it....

Keep the vet ranks or watch this game crumble...

DenMoria · October 2015

I would accept the argument of @i3ig_Gun that these folks in the stratosphere had "earned" it if the majority of these folks weren't ported over from PC.

There will always be those folks that play a game obsessively, hour after hour after hour, and do nothing else except play the game. Fine. More power to you, what we used to call, Basement Trolls. Practice makes perfect after all and you should be rewarded for your dedication.

The issue I have is that, a short time after the release on my console (PS4), I went to Cyrodil and was immediately ganked by someone who was V10.

Really? No one on console could possibly have reached that level so quickly. According to the forums, folks had yet to reach V4. Even the best were about V2 or 3 at the time.

Then I read that PC users that had been playing for more than a year prior to this could port their characters over.

Sheesh.

This created an artificial ceiling for the rest of us that we could not reach. For me it was so frustrating that I gave up my only 2 characters ever to reach V2 and have stuck with the lower 50 levels ever since.

Now, admittedly, there are folks on console's now that have been able to achieve the stratosphere, but this is many, many months later.

What is wrong with simply continuing to level? If that means that you must PvP compete to continue, great! So be it. If it means you must grind, fine. That's the nature of MMO's, yes?

I could be totally off on this, but, what was wrong with levels and gates based on those levels? I can understand that there would need to be a "top level" to reach, in which case CP's after that was a great idea. The developer could always raise the cap later wITH new content aimed at those players.

As I said, I could be totally off on this, but, what was the purpose of V levels in the first place? It strikes me that they were just more levels (harder to achieve, yes, but, as in 99% of games, the higher the level, the harder it is to achieve).

I love ESO, but all these arguments about V levels (keep them or not) and CP (which I do understand), I guess is over my head.

I saw a couple of threads about why V should be eliminated and why it was ruining the game and I've seen threads with the opposite view and, I have yet to actually see a clear answer without a bunch of filler.

In one simple phrase, can somebody tell me:

1) Why Vet Levels are a good thing and should be kept
2) Why Vet levels are a bad thing and should be eliminated

Not need for fluff and long winded minutia. Just the base reason. And it can't be: "Because it annoys me" or "Because it's not fair".

Sorry if I'm coming off gruff, but I've been on the forums since console was first released and this same argument has been going on and on and on in circles and is recycled every few days to start all over again. All I wanted is a clear answer so I can know whether or not it's even worth the effort to put in all the work that it takes.

SeptimusDova · October 2015

Meow.
Nuff Said

wayfarerx · October 2015

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

EARN IT newcomers...

MMO's have never been about just HANDING it to the players... (except wow after LK)

We real life VETS (been here since early release) Have earned our ranks/gear/achievements

Earn it....

Keep the vet ranks or watch this game crumble...

By all means earn it: in vet dungeons, trials, arenas, Cyrodiil, etc. How exactly does grinding through silver and gold equate to earning anything?

mr_wazzabi · October 2015

Rioht wrote: »

Because I am sick of games that focus on tiered incentive systems that force players to waste their time and efforts in game on specific activities that they do not want to play.

When each new increase of VR levels, we are continually removing the relevance of vast portions of the game that many players previously enjoyed, and new players will never experience.

For example, take the trials and dragon star arena.

With the latest increase of VR and gear (without the scaling of previous content) we saw trials, non vet dungeons, craglorn and cyrodil all take a step into the shadows as ONLY iC offered new gear and itemization. Well, not entirely, you can still rarely find v16 materials, but all new sets and the only relevant v16 sets are IC content only.

Removal of VR's may not even fix this. By introducing gear tiers (aka like destiny does) you end up with the exact sane system just under a different guise.

For the vr rank removal to be truly effective, they need to scale ALL content and gear to the same level and not create new tiers with the introduction of new content.

New DLC would offer NEW optionsnfor builds, new styles, new weapon types, new game activities. Where new DLC gear is not the end all in build variety.

Trial gear would be an option, arena gear would be an option, PvP gear would be an option, open world drops would be an option. No sets would be the absolute best option, but each would present interesting mechanics and compliments to specific game styles.

Players wouldn't be forced to play content they don't want to (I.e., grind the sewers) of they just wanted to solo quest, PvP, do dungeons with friends. They could play the game ANYWAY they wanted, and still be doing "endgame" content.

I like this idea, but I wonder if many fully geared end game players will get bored because of the loss of vertical progression. Some players will be like "why get the dlc if my build kills all. I don't want the new gear. There's nothing for me to do now."

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Because I want to get to endgame fast, play the game a month or two, get bored of it and play next COD.
People who sant them is people that's not gonna stick to the game too long. Im against removing veteran ranks just for casual players.

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2015

LokoMatic wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

lumidragon wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I want the Veteran Ranks increased to 32.

I like this idea! Though I'm not a Vet yet (still leveling my first character).

Also I really don't see the problem, I think the Vet system is cool. I was really looking forward to becoming a vet.
Now I'll have to wonder what's there to look forward to :'( .

We need more of people like yourself, who can grasp the concept of a long term mmo, and its character progression.

Thank you for this refreshment.

That's a rather funny thing to say. Other MMO's that have actually stood the test of time and still have more subscribers/players don't have VR.

In fact it's rather odd that you would would point to the very thing that caused so many people to leave in the early months and use it as a concept for the longevity of an MMO!

Also you clearly demonstrate, like so many others that you don't even understand what people are saying. No one wants to remove progression. People do not want to progress in such a way that you have to play three factions storylines to do so.

As you clearly demonstrate, not every single person goes through caldwell's gold to level.

I didn't realize zenimax was forcing people to level up in only 1 way.

There are only three ways to level up to VR 16 and if youre not into one of them. Youre going to be forced to choose one or the other left.

Story Content- This is fine up until 50 when you suddenly realize you have to do all of that over again TWICE plus Craglorn and grinding in IC or elsewhere to make it to VR16. Its a bit demoralizing. To kill Molag Bal and feel as if you did something worth while in the game only to realize. Youre only 1/3rd of the way there. When in any other game. That would be where Endgame picked up. But no, here in ESO we have to do it two more times before we see endgame. And if youre not into PvP than youre going to have to grind those two levels out somewhere. And if youre not a grinder...Youre being forced to do something you dont want to HAVE to do. Just as going through Silver and Gold is forcing you to do it to get to Endgame.

Grinding- Cause its real fun finding some mobs a couple levels higher than you and AOE bombing them until you pop a new level. The only people that do this are people that are in a rush to end game..They arent putting in any real effort or learning the mechanics of the game and will end up being a liability to anyone who actually took the time to learn how the game works. I dare anyone, even a grinder, to tell me that its fun to mindlessly bomb Mobs for hours upon hours.

PvP- I personally dont mind PvP and at times one or two levels here and there have been earned through PvP. But its a slow process. And if youre not into PvP. Having to jump into PvP to go an alternate route to an unnecessary level Cap is again. FORCING a player to do something they dont want to do.

VR levels were necessary in the first year of the game because CP didnt exist. There was no alternate means of progressing. VR1-14 was it. Now that the CP System is in place and theyre getting a handle on the amount that can be used. Its time for the VR Ranks to go. You can still progress. Youll still have hundreds of CP to earn. But you wont feel this need to rush to a rank because all of your friends are already there.

Rampeal · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Because I want to get to endgame fast, play the game a month or two, get bored of it and play next COD.
People who sant them is people that's not gonna stick to the game too long. Im against removing veteran ranks just for casual players.

So your answer is Making people Grind levels for veteran rank...Yep that will keep people interested in the game. Mindless grind. What other successful MMO does that? Oh yeah there isn't one.

A good MMO allows you to get to endgame fast so you can do the endgame content. If people are leaving because of boredom that is not because they don't have Endless grind, it is because the MMO lacks endgame content.

The Majority of the player base has spoken and that is why Veteran Ranks are being removed. Democracy, Its a good thing.

Sting864 · October 2015

Runaan wrote: »

Is it because you wanna max out your characters and vet. ranks are a blockade to you?

That is probably the worst straw-man reason I've ever heard... To quote you, "OMFG"
That doesn't even make sense... More levels are just more levels... How are they blocking anyone? That's like saying, "get rid of levels 31-40 'cause they are a blockade on my way to 50..." INSANE
I want to get rid of VR level GEAR most of all...
A sword is a sword is a sword... (of course there are still quality levels: white, green, blue, purple, gold....)
but a weapon should not determine the baseline of how much damage is done... the player should... A level 10 player should be able to wield the same sword as a level 50 player... although the skills and abilities possessed by the level 50 character should inflict more damage...

Islyn · October 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Uber_Lord wrote: »

Im VR16 and I honestly see no difference. VR16 or level 100 whats the difference? Those 2 words Veteran Rank are quite gimmicky and meaningless. I suposse to look cool for the kids? Same goes with HP and damage increase in tenths of thousands? What's the purpose? To look silly and "cool" for the kids? What's next 400,000 Health and 100k DPS?
I much more prefered the smaller stat numbers back then. Keep it simple, stupid!
Why do somethings for no functional reason?

Yeah exactly exactly!

I only think it will take SO MUCH TIME for something that won't really matter - i don't actually care what my lvls are called and people Keep Thinking I am putting it down because of them.

I am just saying: Omg - bugs, lag, loadscreen, bugs and content. Then totally pointless at this point, changes.

But this is the point. When people say they don't want VR ranks they are not talking about the name of levels, they are talking about not wanting to play three individual storylines on one character. They still want progression and new content.

Islyn wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

VR's are an illusion to bypass the lack of content, nothing more.

No, locking areas to lvl is that.

The should just unlock Silver and Gold or whatever.

There is LOADS of content but let's face it, most people are quite literally too lazy to do it all and only do main story stuff, then try to grind and get bored of that too then complain.

I have ENOUGH v14s on NA gotten when it was actually hard, to know what I am talking about and I am not putting anyone down.

I am saying: This here, is not a grind and removing vet ranks is just pointless busywork when there are other things devs could be doing. Like MORE CONTENT.

How is repeating the same quests that I already done on my main not a grind? Laziness has absolutely nothing to do with it. Not wanting to quest is not laziness any more than not wanting to PVP is. An MMO should be built around lore, and ensuring that your players are doing what they want to be doing. VR breaks both. I don't want to go through another factions quests on a character. If I want to go through the story of another faction I will roll an alt and do so.

I would love VR if they were factionless area's with no repeating other faction storylines, but they're not and therefore are out of place.

You are so wrong to say it's down to laziness, you simply can't look beyond your own playstyle and accept that other people want different things out of an MMO. It's the epitome of tunnel vision. I also leveled characters through the early months and it was a pointless grind that ruined any interest I had in Alts playing through quests. It's ONLY saving grace was the difficulty of combat, oh but they ruined that.

Edit: and by the way, when I say remove faction quests I mean by replacing it with new content that is relevant to my faction.

Sorry you misunderstand me I think.

People have to level no matter how they do it or what the levels are called.

You will not just POOF to max and getting CP is the same difference as anything else.

The LORE is in the QUESTING (seriously?) and you can grind.

Getting rid of VR Levels will not magically make a load of new content. You will still be left with grind, quest or pvp. There's no 4th way.

Of course there is a 4th way.

It's like this: Instead of adding a new map for a while they work on new content in the world we already have. So when you hit level fifty you unlock the rest of Tamriel as it is, but instead of just changing factions you have new quests to level up with. Quests that are relevant to your own factions. Like spying and espionage. (I also think they should split their server into two and have an open world PVP realm and a PVE realm that you can freely move between, but that's another point really.)

This is why I started with it's not the VR's that are the problem. It is the concept of going back in time and doing everything again through the eyes of your enemy. Why would anyone want to do that? It's treacherous.

When people say they want VR removed they are not talking about the name of levels, they are talking about regurgitating quests not designed for them, I.E other factions stories, that's all.

But then people should say they want stuff to do. Not VR removed.

VR levels and the content to make them are different

Islyn · October 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm sure someone's said this reason already (haven't read the whole thing), but the main reason I want them gone is so that you don't feel forced into doing Cadwell's before you can do Craglorn, PvP or Trials. If they had introduced Craglorn as VR5 and Trials as VR10, rather than Craglorn as VR11 and Trials as VR12, the problem people have with VRs would not have existed.

Again that's unlock the areas and scale to lvl. Not remove VR ranks.

Islyn · October 2015

wayfarerx wrote: »

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

EARN IT newcomers...

MMO's have never been about just HANDING it to the players... (except wow after LK)

We real life VETS (been here since early release) Have earned our ranks/gear/achievements

Earn it....

Keep the vet ranks or watch this game crumble...

By all means earn it: in vet dungeons, trials, arenas, Cyrodiil, etc. How exactly does grinding through silver and gold equate to earning anything?

How does removing vet ranks make you think you won't have to level somehow? xD

Sting864 · October 2015

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Removal will help retain and attract a larger playerbase. So many people quit at end game once they realise at lvl 50 your actually only a quarter of they way to actual end game.

Actually less than that, considering Vet levels are now 850,000 XP (They used to be a MILLION. Level 40 was less than 10% of that. If lowbie leveling is logarithmic...

Hand_Bacon · October 2015

Improvements to the game in general I can get behind. However, there seems to be this idea that removing VRs will stop people from being "victims" of an mmo's progresssion. Do people honestly think they can make themselves victims? You do know that's impossible...

Sting864 · October 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Because I have a lot of alts and neither the time nor patience to individually grind them all to VR16.

CP are account-wide, so I'd rather see those used for itemization post-level 50.

Then don't have "a lot of alts". That's not enough reason to strip the game into 20-hour 100% completed leveling cakewalk party.

Then don't have "just an Altmer Nightblade" That's not enough reason to keep an antiquated VR system intact...

mrdankles · October 2015

Questing sucks. Veteran levels take way too long, def when you have alts.

Skinzz · October 2015

Since when did this game become all about the alts? I could care less about alts. If you want to create a new character then thats your own time and effort in leveling your alt. Don't ruin it for all the players that spent time leveling to vet 16 from day 1.

Deheart · October 2015

Finally, after seeing months of get rid of V rank posts with no logical reason actually written down that I actually saw, I finally read a good solid reason.

Without the Vranks you don't have to wait so long to get the good armor set drops.

madchuska83 · October 2015

I haven't read through all 7 pages so this may have been said already. I want them gone because I enjoy making new characters. When this happens I'll have at least one character of each race and class. Right now I have one character for each faction, 2 are VR1 and my main is VR7. I've had the game since launch and it's hard for me to find the time to level even my main to VR16.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Ok...I've read more than a couple of comments saying don't remove VR levels and make them character levels 50-66.

That's actually removing VR levels because the VR levels are in no way character levels so all of those comments are suggesting to remove vet levels. Further reduce the exp required beyond 49 which.....is removing vet levels in a different way.