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A matter of DEFENSE in Elder Scrolls Online

hardcore_gmr
hardcore_gmr
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"In a game where any and every race and class can be an offensive powerhouse, the one true king will always be the one who can defend."


If we were to look back over the history of ESO and see past the bugs and bots in the beginning we would unequivocally come back to the early days of DK dominance. And you would have to be a fool to think that the DK was not the dominant class in PvP prior to update 1.6. And it is here that we see the ongoing issue of class balance begin to show its true form. For those of us that can remember the DK then, we can all agree that no one ever complained that whip hit exceptionally hard, or that talons did too much damage. What has always been the point of contention is how DK can defend against large groups due to skills like Reflective Scales which could negate all range attacks, or that DK could pop green dragon blood and out heal damage faster than it was being dished out. If you look back you can probably recall the outcry for nerfs to the class, and the enraged retorts from DK players exclaiming "how could a clearly noticeable class skill with a 4 second duration be over powered."

Then in 1.6 the nerf to Scales happened and the reign of the DK ended only to give way to the rise of the 14 or 15k shield stacking sorc, who could cast 20k plus crystal frags from behind the wall of shields and could easily escape when outnumbered with a simple 15 meter dash. How could a magic user pass through that much defense before the sorc had to recast, how could a player unload the proper amount of DPS to a class that at the drop of a hat could bolt through you and away before you even got the chance to turn around. All the while confused sorcs exclaimed, "we are in light armor, we cannot possibly take wrecking blows to the face like other classes so we have to stack shields."

And now in 1.7, when blocking has been reduced to a cruel joke ZoS intends for tanks, and dodging is an exercise in seeing how many times you can evade damage before you have to block with your face, the new king has claimed the throne. A Nightblade's defense is that they cannot be seen, or even if they are seen they can not be targeted directly. A 2.9 second spammable ability that negates up to 4 negative effects and turns the player invisible has emerged as king. And now there are talks of no magic regen (or a 50% reduction) and players cry out how OP nightblades are and how unfair it is to not have to block but simply vanish to regen health or resources, to cook up some sinister amount of damage, or to simply flee without so much as an single AP point applied to the other combatant(s). And now Nightblade's plead, "it is our only defense, we have no self heal, the skill is buggy most of the times and must be spammed."

And so goes the circle.....but has anyone not noticed that the player meta always revolves around defense. ZoS clearly has and the game breaking mechanics they have put in place to alter defense has given way to this changing of the guard. But have they ever addressed the real issue that existed way back with the DK....I would argue no, they have not. They have merely deflected the criticism to the next class with a desireable defense mechanism. Can anybody explain why Cloak is largely unchanged since release but only now is it considered "OP". Perhaps because other forms of defense have been nerfed, through sets that make light attacks hit harder than wrecking blows, or mechanics that discourage players from blocking, or even evading damage altogether.

In an effort to bring balance ZoS has simply replaced one class issue for another and I can only imagine that someone will figure out how to turn Repentance into a tanking skill and the circle will be complete. But in this exchange of one issue for another, all they have truly done is dig themselves a deeper hole of undiscernible nerfs and game mechanics that cause more issue then they solve. So what is the solution then? Has anyone noticed that the root of all these issues is not necessarily the skills but the repeated over use of them?

COOLDOWNS! Not long drawn out pauses to cause breaks in the action, not penalties that deter players from using the skill altogether, just a basic second or two delay between the use of a skill and the next use. That's its! Its not a wonder why popular action RPG games have cooldowns on skills, and why these games are often regarded as much more tactical and skill oriented. Games like Diablo, Guild Wars, and many other great MMO's all have some form of cooldown system to prevent players from simply spamming even the best and well meaning skills, why not ESO? If cooldown on abilities are implemented it would place some importance of light and heavy attacks outside of being used to animation cancel. If cooldowns on abilities are implemented they could go roll back a lot (almost all the nerfs and dumb mechanics) and still have a better player accepted TTK (time to kill) then the joke that 1.6 was and the cluster f*ck of uneven drawn out battle in 1.7. If they implemented cooldowns they could get rid of perma invisible nightblade, rising cost for rolling and bolt escape, give DK their wings back and repeal the no regen on block, all because the game would not have players spamming abilities trying to gain an advantage over the other. Wininng in PvP would require skill, no actual real skill that would have tactic and planning, rotations would consist of more than WB, WB, WB, Executioner, Executioner, Executioner...or Crystal Frag, Crystal Frag, Crystal Frag....or Flame Lash, Flame Lash, Flame Lash....or Jabs, Jabs, Jabs. Heals could be normal again, shield could have a purpose (so long as they make them able to be hit with a critical attack), Builds would be diverse based on whether you preferred a lower damage ability with a short cooldown versus if you wanted a heavy damage ability with a larger cooldown. Players would be able to enjoy the class abilities without fear of nerf because min/maxers have turned the class into the next powerhouse and now other players are calling for a rebalance because your class skill is unfair.

ESO could be great if ZoS didn't try to recreate the wheel by going against years of successful MMO's and RPG's by trying to institute the full action of a fighting game while trying to keep the balance of an RPG. all this brings me back to my original quote and the cause for this discussion....."In a game where any class and any race can be as powerful as they choose, the class who can defend will always be KING!"

Discuss, respectfully please!
  • hrothbern
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    Nice analysis !
    I think also that a strong defense is highly annoying for many DD players and it will get a higher weight than it really has.

    To the point:
    IF the cool down would be there, we would need more slots for abilities in our bar if the game revolves around abilities.
    Would that not lead to issues for a console designed MMO with less buttons than a PC keyboard?
    (a bit speculative, but console is the biggest market ?!)

    I have no big experience with MMO's, only 35 years of RPG's on PC's and a TES fan. So perhaps there are console MMO's with a large bar with cooldowns.
    In that case forget my comment.


    Edited by hrothbern on October 29, 2015 10:09AM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • Waffennacht
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    Neverwinter has cooldowns and is on console.

    The button lay out is similar except, if you were to remove the ability on left bumper and change that to: giving a new button lay out.

    Eso does this using the d-pad instead.

    I haven't seen a game yet provide more options (eso does with the sorc but that's such a small portion of the population) than two standard bars.

    I would lime to point out, even with 5 seconds of cooldown (some are longer) they have the equivalent of a spam. Its X, Y, B, right bumper, left bumper, repeat. So even with the cool down times, by the time you cycle a rotation, the cooldowns are done.

    Not really my opinion on the OP lol, just what little I know about rpgs on consoles
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
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  • kupacmac
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    The repercussions of this are so far reaching it would take a complete overhaul of the game (everything skill related anyway). Perhaps this is the way they should have gone early on, but trying to add it at this stage of the game could cause it's demise.
    Edited by kupacmac on October 29, 2015 4:46PM
  • usmcjdking
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    Until light/heavy attacks become a valid method of damage (it doesn't need to be top DPS 2015, just do enough), then you will continue to see spell spam.
    0331
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  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Until light/heavy attacks become a valid method of damage (it doesn't need to be top DPS 2015, just do enough), then you will continue to see spell spam.

    yeah, agree !

    Perhaps, perhaps..... ZOS is slowly moving the game to a certain degree in that direction: towards more base weapon attacks.

    If resources become more of a bottleneck, also by stronger abilities costing more and light/heavy attacks regain resources or increase the effect of (weaker less costly) abilities, the game will move slowly towards less spamming of abilities.

    examples increase effect: Grim Focus, Molag Kena and many more. Most of them added in the last year.
    Edited by hrothbern on October 29, 2015 5:11PM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • GuyNamedSean
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    So what you're saying is that animation cancelling should be removed? Most of the reason (I'm assuming, of course) that we haven't got cooldowns is due to the majority of skills having an animation that must be played out before using another move. Due to animation cancelling, we haven't got that delaying us.
    Former Guildmaster of the Legion of Mournhold
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    PC: GuyNamedSeanPC
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    All I know is that I'm tired of seeing 17khp ballerinas.
    0331
    0602
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    All I know is that I'm tired of seeing 17khp ballerinas.

    This patch is definitely the 'patch of the DPS'. Though to be fair I think DPS always did well. Many so-called tanks in cyrodiil were just dps using defensive powers and their shield effectively. I agree with the notion that light/heavy attacks need to be more relevant (give us Combos ZoS, look to games like DCUO or even Skyrim) and the health stat should have relevance toward hand to hand combat if they insist on scaling damage off of magic/stamina.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
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    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
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    <And plenty more>
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