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Internet builds, so we meet again

  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Oh I've faced you before. Sure you had a different name, in a different place, at a different time.

    Of course you don't know me, but oh how I know you. I have defeated you, and you, I.

    I speak of the internet build. Usually from deltia's build. Sorc is the most recognizable for me. The use of mines after streak dispite my range and lack of effectiveness usually tells me they are not entirely sure of what they are doing.

    The build is good, don't get me wrong. I just find it sad that people, just like in mtg, just go online and copy a build. Been there myself when I was 14, so I understand. What I do now, is get ideas from the web, test out combinations, fine tune to my playstyle.

    For tangling webs is a perfect example. Read a few threads about its use, liked whatvI saw, tested it out, and after a long while found a nice spot for it to hang out in. I didn't just copy the build, didn't even have the same style, but I did learn and adapt.

    Anyone else notice these little buggers? Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts about the high amount of cookie cutter builds out there (though sorcs are a but more understandable, our actual attacks are so few in number we really can't come up with a new line) any new cookies out there? Whatcha think?

    I've been experimenting with Volatile Familiar and I can say that it is both funny and satisfying to use. Haven't used it in PvP yet but I can see it adding yet another layer to magic sorc burst.

    Really? I hadn't tried it in ages, maybe its worth another look
    Many builds are somewhat self explanatory if someone takes the time to synchronize between effects. Those builds are then refined by playtesting and experience.

    Your assumption is that people look up sypher, deltia and other web posters and that's the beginning and ending of the story. Speaking for myself I don't think there's a single build I saw one of these internet guys post that I haven't generally thought up myself or played myself. This doesn't mean I never look at their builds, or information about playtesting, or other people's math. It is interesting to see how people apply things differently, and from their perspective. I learn how other people play and think, and sometimes I see the importance of using one skill more than perhaps another. I think it is important as a player in a game like this to read about each ability your character can use and think of ways they synchronize. The next step is to actually playtest that and see how you like their implementation. Finally, it is important to observe other players and see if there are concepts you hadn't thought of yet. Feed that knowledge back into the loop, and keep current with the changes that ZoS will continue to throw in that knowledge pipeline. This game isn't rocket science though. 5 actives +1 ultimate per bar. 2 Bars on all classes except for Sorcerers who get 3 bars with overload. This is made even more simple when you realize that you want to take advantage of as many passives as possible (Sorcs need to slot something from the Summon skill line if they want their HUGE health/stam regen of 20% for example) as well as actives with huge benefit or that highly enhance performance (Shadow skills proccing armor/sr for a NB, Jabs for a Templar, Whip for a DK etc)

    Looking beyond myself and out toward other players I believe its unfair to make assumptions about the player base. Firstly, how do you know they are copying a build? Did it occur to you that they might just be copying successful gameplay by friends in their guild, or rivals in the opposing faction? Give new players room to adapt and grow. The attitude behind this post just seems unnecessarily negative toward what is essentially inevitable, even if the internet build did not exist. My problem with this attitude is that there's no empirical evidence to back what you are saying.

    Didn't mean for it to can't me across as so negative. Yeah there is a bit i wont lie lol, but it's more of a carry over from my TCG days. As for empirical evidence. True I have none, especially as Im console.

    That being said, yeah you can tell by watching the battle unfold. Granted (remember I did specifically mention sorcs as I am most familiar with them) it is still a guess.

    I would say the resto staff, destro staff, mines, bolt, curse, wrath, frag, ice comet, build is extremely common. It's not just the move list either, its the playstyle as well that's a give away. When a move is ineffective against you, and they keep it in the rotation, its usually a sign of them not knowing their build (indicative of using an unfamiliar build)

    I could also use the blanket comment of, "we don't need empirical evidence to know some people copy and paste" but meh.

    I'm more referring to generalizations, plus for the first time ever I have created a successful thread!! Im just gonna bask in that for a moment lol :)
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    Oh I've faced you before. Sure you had a different name, in a different place, at a different time.

    Of course you don't know me, but oh how I know you. I have defeated you, and you, I.

    I speak of the internet build. Usually from deltia's build. Sorc is the most recognizable for me. The use of mines after streak dispite my range and lack of effectiveness usually tells me they are not entirely sure of what they are doing.

    The build is good, don't get me wrong. I just find it sad that people, just like in mtg, just go online and copy a build. Been there myself when I was 14, so I understand. What I do now, is get ideas from the web, test out combinations, fine tune to my playstyle.

    For tangling webs is a perfect example. Read a few threads about its use, liked whatvI saw, tested it out, and after a long while found a nice spot for it to hang out in. I didn't just copy the build, didn't even have the same style, but I did learn and adapt.

    Anyone else notice these little buggers? Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts about the high amount of cookie cutter builds out there (though sorcs are a but more understandable, our actual attacks are so few in number we really can't come up with a new line) any new cookies out there? Whatcha think?

    I've been experimenting with Volatile Familiar and I can say that it is both funny and satisfying to use. Haven't used it in PvP yet but I can see it adding yet another layer to magic sorc burst.

    Really? I hadn't tried it in ages, maybe its worth another look
    Many builds are somewhat self explanatory if someone takes the time to synchronize between effects. Those builds are then refined by playtesting and experience.

    Your assumption is that people look up sypher, deltia and other web posters and that's the beginning and ending of the story. Speaking for myself I don't think there's a single build I saw one of these internet guys post that I haven't generally thought up myself or played myself. This doesn't mean I never look at their builds, or information about playtesting, or other people's math. It is interesting to see how people apply things differently, and from their perspective. I learn how other people play and think, and sometimes I see the importance of using one skill more than perhaps another. I think it is important as a player in a game like this to read about each ability your character can use and think of ways they synchronize. The next step is to actually playtest that and see how you like their implementation. Finally, it is important to observe other players and see if there are concepts you hadn't thought of yet. Feed that knowledge back into the loop, and keep current with the changes that ZoS will continue to throw in that knowledge pipeline. This game isn't rocket science though. 5 actives +1 ultimate per bar. 2 Bars on all classes except for Sorcerers who get 3 bars with overload. This is made even more simple when you realize that you want to take advantage of as many passives as possible (Sorcs need to slot something from the Summon skill line if they want their HUGE health/stam regen of 20% for example) as well as actives with huge benefit or that highly enhance performance (Shadow skills proccing armor/sr for a NB, Jabs for a Templar, Whip for a DK etc)

    Looking beyond myself and out toward other players I believe its unfair to make assumptions about the player base. Firstly, how do you know they are copying a build? Did it occur to you that they might just be copying successful gameplay by friends in their guild, or rivals in the opposing faction? Give new players room to adapt and grow. The attitude behind this post just seems unnecessarily negative toward what is essentially inevitable, even if the internet build did not exist. My problem with this attitude is that there's no empirical evidence to back what you are saying.

    Didn't mean for it to can't me across as so negative. Yeah there is a bit i wont lie lol, but it's more of a carry over from my TCG days. As for empirical evidence. True I have none, especially as Im console.

    That being said, yeah you can tell by watching the battle unfold. Granted (remember I did specifically mention sorcs as I am most familiar with them) it is still a guess.

    I would say the resto staff, destro staff, mines, bolt, curse, wrath, frag, ice comet, build is extremely common. It's not just the move list either, its the playstyle as well that's a give away. When a move is ineffective against you, and they keep it in the rotation, its usually a sign of them not knowing their build (indicative of using an unfamiliar build)

    I could also use the blanket comment of, "we don't need empirical evidence to know some people copy and paste" but meh.

    I'm more referring to generalizations, plus for the first time ever I have created a successful thread!! Im just gonna bask in that for a moment lol :)

    I understand the sentiment to be sure, I'm just playing devil's advocate. New players, or even old players trying something new are going to make mistakes. If someone is failing by using the same techniques over and over, they're either trying to approach the attack in different ways (which could be viable) or they are gluttons for punishment. Because of the design of the game though, it is difficult to build yourself for every occasion. A mage-sorc can be hell to deal with, but will have a hard time versus a good mage-Dk, particularly if he uses frags a lot. Anyway the core point I'm making is not everyone is doing copy-paste, and a lot of people are just getting their bearings and learning the game or relearning as the case might be.

    Oh and Congratulations on a successful topic. :)
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Soulac
    Soulac
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    I fight people, get ideas, may copy some stuff and adjust it to my playstyle.
    There's always something you didn't think about, like when I thought about switching from Dw to S&B and forgot that it would also increase my bash damage, an important information for me and the major reason to switch.
    R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
    Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
    Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU

    - Meow -
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