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Internet builds, so we meet again

Waffennacht
Waffennacht
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Oh I've faced you before. Sure you had a different name, in a different place, at a different time.

Of course you don't know me, but oh how I know you. I have defeated you, and you, I.

I speak of the internet build. Usually from deltia's build. Sorc is the most recognizable for me. The use of mines after streak dispite my range and lack of effectiveness usually tells me they are not entirely sure of what they are doing.

The build is good, don't get me wrong. I just find it sad that people, just like in mtg, just go online and copy a build. Been there myself when I was 14, so I understand. What I do now, is get ideas from the web, test out combinations, fine tune to my playstyle.

For tangling webs is a perfect example. Read a few threads about its use, liked whatvI saw, tested it out, and after a long while found a nice spot for it to hang out in. I didn't just copy the build, didn't even have the same style, but I did learn and adapt.

Anyone else notice these little buggers? Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts about the high amount of cookie cutter builds out there (though sorcs are a but more understandable, our actual attacks are so few in number we really can't come up with a new line) any new cookies out there? Whatcha think?
Edited by Waffennacht on October 27, 2015 4:35PM
Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
1100+ CP
Battleground PvP'er
  • ToRelax
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    Idk, it was more in 2.0 for Sorcs and from what I heard much more streamlined on NA servers than EU.
    Nowadays most (that means bad) Sorcs I see are just spamming Overload until they run out of ultimate and then... start spamming hardcasted Fragments. So yeah, they're like the perfect target, relatively easy to avoid and no clue how to defend themselves.

    But the stam Sorcs, they are rediculous. Before, stam Sorcs were a pretty rare sight and mostly rolled by people who knew what they were doing and/or loved to experiment. Now I see like half the Sorcs running with 2 hand and dualwield and they're still as squishy as it sounds. They don't deal more damage or survive better than any other class. When I see one with one hand/shield I already know he'll be a much tougher opponent than most.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Interesting, for myself, I only ran into one stam sorc and that b4 the update.

    I've just noticed almost every sorc i run into, is that exact same build. It may just be that my association with the majority of sorcs builds is from deltia because I saw that move line up there first.

    After reading what you said, it just could be that the only true viable sorc DPS builds have such few move choices that they are all very similar.

    I haven't ran into a sorc pet build in months.

    I would also say templar and DKs seem to be the most diverse classes I run into. NBs are harder for me to tell, as visually there are few clues to what move they are using.

    So do you guys think that its the internet build or more the lack of viable options?
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • ToRelax
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    Interesting, for myself, I only ran into one stam sorc and that b4 the update.

    I've just noticed almost every sorc i run into, is that exact same build. It may just be that my association with the majority of sorcs builds is from deltia because I saw that move line up there first.

    After reading what you said, it just could be that the only true viable sorc DPS builds have such few move choices that they are all very similar.

    I haven't ran into a sorc pet build in months.

    I would also say templar and DKs seem to be the most diverse classes I run into. NBs are harder for me to tell, as visually there are few clues to what move they are using.

    So do you guys think that its the internet build or more the lack of viable options?

    With Overload I use 17 different skills constantly and I would really like to add a few more. Like, I don't have Purge, Healing Springs, Degeneration, Rapid Regeneration, Rune Cage, Greater Storm Atronach, Elusive Mist, Clouding Swarm, the list goes on.
    I think most frequently I see the 3 common shields, Force Shock, Crystal Fragments, Curse, Bolt Escape, some spell damage buff, Overload, Meteor, Boundless Storm and maybe Encase or Minefield. But then again, I use all of those as well. And I already mentioned 10-11 normal skills and 2 ultimates right now, one can run with this. It's like there's a certain core of abilities most players will use - call it meta if you want, though I wouldn't use the word that way - and it almost fills up someone's bar completely if you go with it. And you have to, to an extend, to keep your build viable, leaving only a few slots for customization of what's lacking in your build.
    I think Hardened Ward and Bolt Escape are the absolute core right now that pretty much every magicka Sorc uses, add Fragments for anything outside large raids. Then the very common things like Velocious Curse, Harness Magicka, Healing Ward, Power Surge, Boundless Storm. Crushing Shock for destro users. Leaves one skill without Overload.

    So yes, I do think there's a lack of viable options, although I don't believe most players really modified their build to their own needs, when I see them spamming Overload and Fragments like Crazy, using Hardened Ward once in a while. They can only copy the few builds that exist, but they still don't know how to use them.

    Now how we got to this is a plethora of different direct and indirect nerfs.
    For one, shields and stack max magicka are the way to go without softcaps. DoT's are inferior to burst damage and who needs to counter magicka DK's scale spamming anymore.
    As for the direct nerfs, I can list a few skills I've been using and stopped using because they got nerfed. Fire Clench, Fire Blockade, Fire Ring, Inner Light, Immovable, Absorption Field, Volatile Familiar, Defensive Rune. Mind you, these are the ones that were nerfed so hard, they were never again worth using anymore. Quite some of the skills I use today have been nerfed as well, certainly more than buffs to them. But at least they are still good for something (and with one single nerf, the Ball of Lightning one, I actually agree).

    It would be much better if more options were opened up by buffing underperforming skills. Instead we get nerfs. Inner Light is the perfect example. Not that many players used it in PvP in 1.5, because it already took 2 slots as a toggle. But the effect was great, it gave crit (self heals and ultimate), mage's guild passives (max magicka, magicka regen) and detected stealthers/cloaking NBs. And ZOS went ahead and split the skill in half, giving detection to the other morph only. Now both morphs together are even less popular in PvP than Inner Light alone in 1.5.

    edit: typos
    Edited by ToRelax on October 27, 2015 6:43PM
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Amica
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    Toying around with builds is one thing ... truth is in most cases the builds like delta and sypher etc post are very viable builds for struggling players. More often than not i have run into these people using the builds and sure enough have my counters in place for them. But after a few weeks you can run into the same person. And the build although fundamentally the same has been switched up to that players play style... and can play very differently from one person to the next depending how they use it.

    Personally i think it's very helpful on there part to post the information. A: to help struggling players. B: to help me attempt come up with new counter builds for upcoming patches. As the guys give out what works for those who need it witch gives me the upper hand in PVP as 90% of the players in game are running that build on that particular class.

    its a win win
    NB Shashu of DC
    DK William x Wallace of DC
    In game @Amica.
    "i Thought i was poor having no shoe's, Until i saw a man with no feet"
  • Jitterbug
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    Like the army of Sypher's stam NB you mean?
  • rfennell_ESO
    rfennell_ESO
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    Interesting, for myself, I only ran into one stam sorc and that b4 the update.

    I've just noticed almost every sorc i run into, is that exact same build. It may just be that my association with the majority of sorcs builds is from deltia because I saw that move line up there first.

    After reading what you said, it just could be that the only true viable sorc DPS builds have such few move choices that they are all very similar.

    I haven't ran into a sorc pet build in months.

    I would also say templar and DKs seem to be the most diverse classes I run into. NBs are harder for me to tell, as visually there are few clues to what move they are using.

    So do you guys think that its the internet build or more the lack of viable options?

    Truth be told, if you are a stamina sorcerer, you are extremely limited on what abilities you would pick in the first place.

    So the copy cat isn't always a copy cat, but it's just the only way to load out your bars.
    Jitterbug wrote: »
    Like the army of Sypher's stam NB you mean?

    It's the same basic thing as above, what else are you going to put on your bars?


    Basically, any player that gets to the point of understanding the game somewhat... also understands what abilities suck and which ones don't.

    Magicka has a lot more options than stamina does though... So stamina builds are forced to rely on what works in pvp, that leads to very similar builds not because they copied an internet build (most are bad, tell you the truth), but because that's the abilities worth using and it's less than 10.

    Particularly when it comes to offense... you are extremely limited as a stamina build as to what is worth using.
  • Emma_Overload
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Now I see like half the Sorcs running with 2 hand and dualwield and they're still as squishy as it sounds. They don't deal more damage or survive better than any other class.

    LOL, this is so true! I just tried Stam Sorc for 2 weeks after watching FENGRUSH's video... and it was horrible! I actually got WORSE at PvP, which I didn't think was possible. I would like to blame it on Breton racials, but I think it was just because I sucked and Stamina Sorcs suck, too. All you've really got for big heals is Crit Surge, and it is NOT reliable against PvP players.

    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • Waffennacht
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    Reading your post, I really like it, interesting point on inner light. I'm curious, are you a fan of bound armor?

    I would like to get your opinions as you seemed to have thought this out well.

    I first tried a max ed out magicka dps build, I thought that my current crit build was performing better (though the resource difference was extremely noticeable)

    Though this is a great example of my original post. Even though I'm clearly being influenced by what I'm learning here, I'm not about to just copy your build and start playing. I'm going to consider what you say, see if I can implement changes that I feel are synergistic. Thank you
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • ToRelax
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    Reading your post, I really like it, interesting point on inner light. I'm curious, are you a fan of bound armor?

    I would like to get your opinions as you seemed to have thought this out well.

    I first tried a max ed out magicka dps build, I thought that my current crit build was performing better (though the resource difference was extremely noticeable)

    Though this is a great example of my original post. Even though I'm clearly being influenced by what I'm learning here, I'm not about to just copy your build and start playing. I'm going to consider what you say, see if I can implement changes that I feel are synergistic. Thank you

    I don't really like the new Bound Armor, as a toggle it would cost me 3 skill slots plus I'd prefer either morph of Magelight for the crit. I had been using it at the beginning of the game but dropped it during the first months, because armor and spell resist didn't do much against sharpened weapons and using Inner Light instead helped me to heal myself with Critical Surge. But now it's just outclassed by Inner Light, because they butchered the protection it offered. 8% max magicka, 2% spell damage and minor armor and spell resist vs. 7% max magicka, 2 magicka regen and 10% spell crit.

    Atm I am using 3 Willpower + 5 Phoenix + 3 Willow's Path. I tried out 5 Willow's and 3 Pheonix but didn't like it as much, for some reason I feel Phoenix is really underrated among the better players.

    After experimenting a lot with vampirism and trying to deal with Shieldbreaker, for now I settled with a skill setup pretty close to what I ran in 1.6. I'll list those in a spoiler:
    Inferno Staff:
    1 Crystal Fragments
    2 Crushing Shock
    3 Hardened Ward
    4 Harness Magicka
    5 Shuffle
    R Shooting Star

    Restoration Staff:
    1 Restraining Prison
    2 Velocious Curse
    3 Healing Ward
    4 Boundless Storm
    5 Streak
    R Energy Overload

    Overload:
    1 Deadric Minefield
    2 Proximity Detonation
    3 Hardened Ward
    4 Power Surge
    5 Streak

    Btw, just realized that's only 15 skills. Explains why I had that number in mind... So be it. ^^
    I would advise you, whatever skills you choose, to experiment with them and put them in slots in a way that makes it easier to hit the right skills at the right time. For example, my 3 key is "ward" - Healing Ward on the resto bar, otherwise Hardened Ward. Overload is on the Resto bar because I can heal faster when my health gets hit on that bar.
    What I am currently thinking about is switching Restraining Prison and Shuffle. Shuffle is on the bar where I had it in 1.6 and I just took it back in, so that's why it is there. But I sometimes accidently waste my stamina with it in lag situations, when my only chance is spamming Streak - and I didn't swap weapons. It would also help against Snares like Flying Blade while I am trying to kite. Well, you get the point.

    GL :)
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • tennant94
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    Ppl wanna kill ppl and using cookie cutter builds helps them do that
  • SmalltalkJava
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    online builds are great tools. It provides baseline ideas on mechanics. It also alleviates a lot of the self testing that is needed.
  • olsborg
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    I was planning on using shadow silk as my instant cast dps on my sorc, but now im seeing so many sorcs using it....that Im contemplating using something else. I strive to not be cookiecutter...but ofc in eso its rather hard to accomplish that and still stay competitive. Shame.
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Vivecc
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    ppl wanna be competitive, and to google some is fastest way to get some. No brains needed.
    As for myself i have the same hybrid attributes as Eso started (6/1/3, main magicka) i play around the skills, because of all the changes that had happened and cuz it gets boring after 30 days to do the same things over and again :p
    biggest recent change was that i don´t use dw anymore , instead go 2 destro staffs. but honestly, i miss my sword+ dagger style. in the beginning i was running 5 medium , now i´m on 5 light armor.
    ist hard to be a sorcerer.
    and what i miss most is a REAL aoe spell on range (proxy does not count). lightning floods radius is just too small.

    imo the builds ppl do by themselves can be the big surprise, when you think...oh look, theres another xy clone - sorc^^

    enjoy
    Edited by Vivecc on October 28, 2015 12:33PM
    pc/eu
  • Angarato
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    i'll be honest i did watch sypher's videos and some other nb build videos when i was new to this game and based my builds of of his cause i liked the idea behind them. however i tweak them to my own liking and switch out some skills here and there.
    its just the nature of this game that some abilities are just a must have for some builds. i'm a stamblade. so suprise attacks and ambush are pretty much a given. mass hysteria is probably 1 of the best CC in the game so also a no-brainer. rally and vigor for healing since thats the best(only?) heals we get. this doesnt leave that much room for variation.
    Edited by Angarato on October 28, 2015 12:40PM
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Here's why people use cookie cutter builds :


    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - LF1M Daily gold
    Player :
    - you can group me
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - Please slot ability X
    Player :
    - Sorry no room on my bar + it's not up + no skillpoint left
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - Please leave group.

    Variant :

    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - LF1M Daily gold
    Player :
    - you can group me
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - You play with pets ?
    Player :
    - yeah, that's my build...
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - Please leave group.


    Variant 2 :

    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - LF1M Daily gold
    Player :
    - you can group me
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - Please post DPS
    Player :
    - (posts 13K)
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - Please leave group.


    .
    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on October 28, 2015 12:44PM
  • WillhelmBlack
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    I've never seen anyone run the same set up as me on my Stam sorc, I mean who would want 8.5k Clannfear burst self heals anyway right? Probably most wouldn't have the skill to weapon swap cancel whilst fighting anyway.

    High Council of The Black.(EU/DC PvE & PvP Guild).
  • Vangy
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    As much as i dislike cookie cutters, try doing vet IC pledges with your own makeshift build = gg lol. Most of the cookie cutter builds exist because.... they are min maxed and are sick. Yes u can swap a few skills around, maybe throw out caltrops for something else, or maybe use a bow instead of dw blah blah but in the end;

    ie for dps:
    Templar stam: spam jabs
    Templar magicka: spam jabs
    Stam DK: spam WB/rapid strikes
    Magicka DK: all dots + spam lash (cookie cutter but not easy to pull off)
    Sorc: Frag baby frag
    Sorc stam: Same as Dk but with no rapid strikes
    NB: spam SA
    NB magicka: glug glug glug

    Meh. This game is all about spamming 1 skill and using some kind of utility every now and then. Also this is with reference to PVE. For PVP you have a little more flexibility depending on play style. Or u can join a zerg ball and slot spin2win/impulse etc to win. =)
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Vivecc
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    sure, there´s a "core" of skills for every class, with some flavour to add around.
    and theres almost every time a way to play around other classes strenghts, or to counter them. if you cant then ist mostly because you don´t have the appropriate skill on bar right now... solution : retreat, go out of combat, swap skills, try again:)
    PvE is besides trials a mostly automatic action, no real challenge.
    and yes - i watched the sypher vids as well just to have a look on whats it about. But it didn´t made me change a thing
    it´s Play like you want ( and that means me idc) :D
    enjoy
    pc/eu
  • paulsimonps
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    A lot of times as well you come across people that have a very similar build simply because their min-maxing has simply lead them to the same results. In the end its a game of numbers and there is always gonna be one solution that is gonna give a better result than the others using simple math. Sure it might not be the easiest set up to pull off, like the DK DoT builds, but the theory crafting min-maxers will eventually always find the best option and use nothing but that, then they post their results to either show off, teach others or to give people a base to work from when they do their own work.

    Thing is that the info gathered from those min-maxers eventually become common knowledge when the general consensus has agreed that it works best that way and then they don't want to deviate from that path what so ever, they are afraid to test new things. Cause sometimes the best has yet to be found but the consensus has agreed that it has and so people stop testing and when people find something that might work equally as good or better but doesn't conform to the consensus they get shunned. The flip side is when people think they found the new best thing but its sub par or less than that and keep claiming that its the "best thing eva" and then rage quite the group when you prove its not. Give you an example: Any dps hybrid build, its simple math it cannot compete with min-maxing either into spells or into weapons, with no soft cap to hinder it min-maxing will always give better results, there is no arguing it. But most people take the theory crafters work as a gift from god that must not be questioned and that is not a good way to see it either. Question the build and test for your self, maybe you will find the same results but maybe you won't, don't take peoples word for it that they have finally min-maxed the best possible solution. But then again as has been said in the thread some don't have the time and just want the quickest and currently most efficient cheat sheath to go off.
  • Thelon
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    Here's why people use cookie cutter builds :

    Variant :

    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - LF1M Daily gold
    Player :
    - you can group me
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - You play with pets ?
    Player :
    - yeah, that's my build...
    Elite group (or think they are) :
    - Please leave group

    .

    @anitajoneb17_ESO

    I'm pretty sure there's a cookie cutter for Pet builds somewhere...
    Elderblade - GM
    The Unholy Herdsman - Thelon's Pet Build

    MagSorc PvX
    YouTube
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Thelon wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there's a cookie cutter for Pet builds somewhere...

    Sure there is.
    The problem is not that there are builds and templates that people can copy paste or inspire themselves from.
    The problem is that there's ONE and only ONE of them per class/role/spec (for instance tank/DK/stamina) that's considered working.
    so that's 4 classes x 3 roles x 2 specs = 24 builds for hundreds of thousands of players. Maybe add 24 more for PvP. Call it diversity ?
    The current cookie cutter build for PVE DPS magicka sorc is not the pet build. Even though a DPS magicka sorc with pets can do his job well enough to clear most dungeons.

    And I'm nice by counting 24. Considering the general cliches (Tanks must be DKs, Healers must be templars, DPS must be sorcs/NB), that's in reality much less.

    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on October 28, 2015 3:54PM
  • Kelces
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    That's why I prefer playing healer or tank. People are (less) picky with them...

    A wise player once said to me (In another game): "If you like this game, don't look into the forum!"

    Seems to apply everywhere.
    Edited by Kelces on October 28, 2015 3:10PM
    You reveal yourself best in how you play.

    Kelces - Argonian Templar
    Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
    Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
    V'Jassa - Khajiit Templar
    Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
    Jurupari - Argonian Warden
    Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
    PC - EU
    For the Pact!
  • Waffennacht
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    After giving it more thought. There do seem to be quite a few viable variations (at least sorc as that's all I've been so far)

    I personally have changed my character almost on a bi weekly bases.

    My sorc tank build for PvE is my pet, seems to be rather unique.

    Now that I've become addicted to PvP I now roll a DPS build. But even here my build does seem unique compared to what's out there. Still working on my overload bar and considering the usefulness of dark conversion for dps (its great for tanks, mot people don't like it and I can see why in a dps build where the return isn't sufficient to contine the pressure)

    Now I haven't seen a lot of people running combat prayer, as I finally decided to actually run resto staff again but this time as back up. No one runs daedric tomb (personally its my anti flappy wings move)

    I've ran webs since that spidercat post, i like it as a filler between curse and frag. Its hard finding another attack with low assault and support skill lines.

    Oh and I have no experience with vampire or werewolf as no one can bite me so far. I'm sure there are new and viable ideas with those skill lines to mix (maybe?)

    One more thing, it does annoy me when an internet build t bags me, as if they have accomplished some great feat beating a lower level... lol
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • Vivecc
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    diversity comes by skill usage, not all nb´s have to be snipers, eg.
    but imo theres a more relevated Attribute for the classes, sorc should be magicka or he has a disadvantage on his cllas based skills. sure ist possible to do a stamsorc...but really ? . While NB´s + DK´s can be both a Templar as THE healer - class should go magicka to get the most out of it. But it´s not a must...ist all possible to play with Stamina as well.
    Basic concepts are widened and upgraded by individual preferences and playstyle - and ofc numbers.
    For the minmax fanboys thats all that matters. They just thrive to be most op, only diffrence is the style/colour of their gear
    don´t get me wrong, i like to be competitive, but not at all costs. And i like to be not like the Mainstream if it comes to my chars, it´s called individuality :#
    and know what - it works fine
    my advice - if any would be. Yes get yourself informed on possible builds if you feel the need to do so, but dont just copy instead try your own way on these ideas.
    enjoy
    pc/eu
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    /drinks

    And the biggest iron-E is when players come onto the forums and complain how ESO doesn't follow TES motto of "play your way". Now players can play how they want use what they want. It's that "you" are using some one else build not your own.

    Cookie cutter builds are another reason why ESO is going now where kinda hard to balance stuff right when half the people in this game use some META build from one of those nameless "streamers" nobody cares for making it look like that entire class is OP when in reality there just abusing the tiniest bug, broken mechanic, broken skill, and exploiting it all to ZOS realm of oblivion and nerfing the entire class. Then the nameless "Streamers" just make a new META build and every one just uses that and so on till its a endless loop of stupidity.

    Want the game to start moving in the right direction ? Be original and use your own build.
    Edited by Forestd16b14_ESO on October 28, 2015 3:40PM
    "A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage."
    "It's the warrior not the weapon that decides the battle ."
    #StopOneTamriel
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    /drinks

    And the biggest iron-E is when players come onto the forums and complain how ESO doesn't follow TES motto of "play your way". Now players can play how they want use what they want. It's that "you" are using some one else build not your own.

    Cookie cutter builds are another reason why ESO is going now where kinda hard to balance stuff right when half the people in this game use some META build from one of those nameless "streamers" nobody cares for making it look like that entire class is OP when in reality there just abusing the tiniest bug, broken mechanic, broken skill, and exploiting it all to ZOS realm of oblivion and nerfing the entire class. Then the nameless "Streamers" just make a new META build and every one just uses that and so on till its a endless loop of stupidity.

    Want the game to start moving in the right direction ? Be original and use your own build.

    I'm trying! Lol, actually for me, I find abilities and moves that just don't work for me in most cookies.

    Great example is healing ward, I see other players use it and use ir effectively. My playstyle just doesn't mesh with it. Same with shield stacking. On the console, because the weapon swap removes the thumb from the controller there is a split second of tme loss, in a heavy combay situation that can mean death, therefore I run wards on each bar but no more than one. Making healing ward just not strong enough (let alone actually heal me)

    I've gone to combat prayer, a spam, a good heal, and 8% damage. I really like shattering prison against mobs but it's effectiveness (especially higher levels) against players is very limited so it's probably gonna get switched.

    If only the soul trap line wasn't so weak, I keep trying to find the next webs.

    There is one consideration, for console players especially, our PvP not to mention undaunted skill lines can be pretty low. (As I am almost entirely 1v1 or 1v2 PvP its extremely long time going)

    I completely understand using an internet idea or build and then changing or learning for yourself. What I am seeing is a few players ONLY going with that build. I even have a guildmate (because of NB WB internet builds) has decided to copy such a build, of course I gave him grief over it.
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    /drinks

    And the biggest iron-E is when players come onto the forums and complain how ESO doesn't follow TES motto of "play your way". Now players can play how they want use what they want. It's that "you" are using some one else build not your own.

    Cookie cutter builds are another reason why ESO is going now where kinda hard to balance stuff right when half the people in this game use some META build from one of those nameless "streamers" nobody cares for making it look like that entire class is OP when in reality there just abusing the tiniest bug, broken mechanic, broken skill, and exploiting it all to ZOS realm of oblivion and nerfing the entire class. Then the nameless "Streamers" just make a new META build and every one just uses that and so on till its a endless loop of stupidity.

    Want the game to start moving in the right direction ? Be original and use your own build.

    I'm trying! Lol, actually for me, I find abilities and moves that just don't work for me in most cookies.

    Great example is healing ward, I see other players use it and use ir effectively. My playstyle just doesn't mesh with it. Same with shield stacking. On the console, because the weapon swap removes the thumb from the controller there is a split second of tme loss, in a heavy combay situation that can mean death, therefore I run wards on each bar but no more than one. Making healing ward just not strong enough (let alone actually heal me)

    I've gone to combat prayer, a spam, a good heal, and 8% damage. I really like shattering prison against mobs but it's effectiveness (especially higher levels) against players is very limited so it's probably gonna get switched.

    If only the soul trap line wasn't so weak, I keep trying to find the next webs.

    There is one consideration, for console players especially, our PvP not to mention undaunted skill lines can be pretty low. (As I am almost entirely 1v1 or 1v2 PvP its extremely long time going)

    I completely understand using an internet idea or build and then changing or learning for yourself. What I am seeing is a few players ONLY going with that build. I even have a guildmate (because of NB WB internet builds) has decided to copy such a build, of course I gave him grief over it.

    Post not towards you all the power to you or OG ideas but it's to all the pro-cookie cutters. Seriously cookie cutters are nothing but negatives. Have a META build that gets stuff unneeded nerfs and there's no cookies either that's just wrong. Unneeded nefs and no cookies.
    "A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage."
    "It's the warrior not the weapon that decides the battle ."
    #StopOneTamriel
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Many builds are somewhat self explanatory if someone takes the time to synchronize between effects. Those builds are then refined by playtesting and experience.

    Your assumption is that people look up sypher, deltia and other web posters and that's the beginning and ending of the story. Speaking for myself I don't think there's a single build I saw one of these internet guys post that I haven't generally thought up myself or played myself. This doesn't mean I never look at their builds, or information about playtesting, or other people's math. It is interesting to see how people apply things differently, and from their perspective. I learn how other people play and think, and sometimes I see the importance of using one skill more than perhaps another. I think it is important as a player in a game like this to read about each ability your character can use and think of ways they synchronize. The next step is to actually playtest that and see how you like their implementation. Finally, it is important to observe other players and see if there are concepts you hadn't thought of yet. Feed that knowledge back into the loop, and keep current with the changes that ZoS will continue to throw in that knowledge pipeline. This game isn't rocket science though. 5 actives +1 ultimate per bar. 2 Bars on all classes except for Sorcerers who get 3 bars with overload. This is made even more simple when you realize that you want to take advantage of as many passives as possible (Sorcs need to slot something from the Summon skill line if they want their HUGE health/stam regen of 20% for example) as well as actives with huge benefit or that highly enhance performance (Shadow skills proccing armor/sr for a NB, Jabs for a Templar, Whip for a DK etc)

    Looking beyond myself and out toward other players I believe its unfair to make assumptions about the player base. Firstly, how do you know they are copying a build? Did it occur to you that they might just be copying successful gameplay by friends in their guild, or rivals in the opposing faction? Give new players room to adapt and grow. The attitude behind this post just seems unnecessarily negative toward what is essentially inevitable, even if the internet build did not exist. My problem with this attitude is that there's no empirical evidence to back what you are saying.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • revonine
    revonine
    ✭✭✭✭
    /drinks

    And the biggest iron-E is when players come onto the forums and complain how ESO doesn't follow TES motto of "play your way". Now players can play how they want use what they want. It's that "you" are using some one else build not your own.

    Cookie cutter builds are another reason why ESO is going now where kinda hard to balance stuff right when half the people in this game use some META build from one of those nameless "streamers" nobody cares for making it look like that entire class is OP when in reality there just abusing the tiniest bug, broken mechanic, broken skill, and exploiting it all to ZOS realm of oblivion and nerfing the entire class. Then the nameless "Streamers" just make a new META build and every one just uses that and so on till its a endless loop of stupidity.

    Want the game to start moving in the right direction ? Be original and use your own build.

    I'm trying! Lol, actually for me, I find abilities and moves that just don't work for me in most cookies.

    Great example is healing ward, I see other players use it and use ir effectively. My playstyle just doesn't mesh with it. Same with shield stacking. On the console, because the weapon swap removes the thumb from the controller there is a split second of tme loss, in a heavy combay situation that can mean death, therefore I run wards on each bar but no more than one. Making healing ward just not strong enough (let alone actually heal me)

    I've gone to combat prayer, a spam, a good heal, and 8% damage. I really like shattering prison against mobs but it's effectiveness (especially higher levels) against players is very limited so it's probably gonna get switched.

    If only the soul trap line wasn't so weak, I keep trying to find the next webs.

    There is one consideration, for console players especially, our PvP not to mention undaunted skill lines can be pretty low. (As I am almost entirely 1v1 or 1v2 PvP its extremely long time going)

    I completely understand using an internet idea or build and then changing or learning for yourself. What I am seeing is a few players ONLY going with that build. I even have a guildmate (because of NB WB internet builds) has decided to copy such a build, of course I gave him grief over it.

    If your on PS4 you could try re-mapping weapon swap to L3. No removal of thumb necessary.I haven't tried it personally yet but the awkward weapon swapping in heavy combat is a really big gripe of mine so I'm going to try it.
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh I've faced you before. Sure you had a different name, in a different place, at a different time.

    Of course you don't know me, but oh how I know you. I have defeated you, and you, I.

    I speak of the internet build. Usually from deltia's build. Sorc is the most recognizable for me. The use of mines after streak dispite my range and lack of effectiveness usually tells me they are not entirely sure of what they are doing.

    The build is good, don't get me wrong. I just find it sad that people, just like in mtg, just go online and copy a build. Been there myself when I was 14, so I understand. What I do now, is get ideas from the web, test out combinations, fine tune to my playstyle.

    For tangling webs is a perfect example. Read a few threads about its use, liked whatvI saw, tested it out, and after a long while found a nice spot for it to hang out in. I didn't just copy the build, didn't even have the same style, but I did learn and adapt.

    Anyone else notice these little buggers? Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts about the high amount of cookie cutter builds out there (though sorcs are a but more understandable, our actual attacks are so few in number we really can't come up with a new line) any new cookies out there? Whatcha think?

    I've been experimenting with Volatile Familiar and I can say that it is both funny and satisfying to use. Haven't used it in PvP yet but I can see it adding yet another layer to magic sorc burst.
    All my comments are regarding PvP
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