Give me reasons, why you want veteran ranks gone...

phtony06b14_ESO · October 2015

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

It's not just PVE, PvP has disadvantages as well. And the larger the skill gap, the larger the advantage a VR16 has over say a VR10. The VR10 guy obviously needs more experience but he has to grind against better geared players to get it thereby increasing the grind misery.

All in all, games like GW2 has the best endgame pvp set up. You can choose to use your gear boosted or go with endgame gear sets. B/c the fun is supposed to be in the competition, not blowing up lesser geared players.

Except whatever you call the levels that pl;ayer/character will still have the experience.

There are lots of v16s running about who cannot even clear a gold key. No offence meant to anyone - because who cares? It's a game.

It is still true though and I reckon people who want VR removed just wanna cap sooner - but for what?

So someone should have it easier than the more experienced player because.....?

Also everyone has multiple ways to get to v16 so if they CHOOSE to do it the hardest way possible. Well.

You've obviously made your point about wanting VR levels to stay. I'm really not sure why you can't understand that other players may feel differently, so much so that you attempt to discredit their opinions as soon as they're written.

So I will chalk this convo up as being similar to a political debate - nothing one side says will persuade the other. Have a great day.

Hand_Bacon · October 2015

Everyone should get a trophy for just logging into the game. Did that fix it?

americansteel · October 2015

ranks are nothing but titles names or numbers. level65 is no different than veteran rank 16 100 or one thousand. in the end you're doing the same thing playing and earning exp.

it would be nice to see the vet levels go though.

I rather see a continuing to the story line after the vestiges battle with molag bal,
meridia told us that the other daedric princes noticed what happened whats up with this?

Islyn · October 2015

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

phtony06b14_ESO wrote: »

I get to play less often than a lot of people & I'm tired of constantly being at a disadvantage against them. I remember when I finally made VR 10 only to see it raised to VR12 the next day. I quit on the spot. And before you say "Champion Points", that's a whole other topic albeit with the same problem.

Also there are no fun ways to keep on leveling every time they raise the cap. It's grind, grind, grind.

Then to be honest, you wouldn't be doing the content that required the highest levels anyway because you are too casual to have time to learn it.

Just enjoy the game, the lvls will come.

(I am not using casual in a rude way, honest. Just the ordinary dictionary way)

It's not just PVE, PvP has disadvantages as well. And the larger the skill gap, the larger the advantage a VR16 has over say a VR10. The VR10 guy obviously needs more experience but he has to grind against better geared players to get it thereby increasing the grind misery.

All in all, games like GW2 has the best endgame pvp set up. You can choose to use your gear boosted or go with endgame gear sets. B/c the fun is supposed to be in the competition, not blowing up lesser geared players.

Except whatever you call the levels that pl;ayer/character will still have the experience.

There are lots of v16s running about who cannot even clear a gold key. No offence meant to anyone - because who cares? It's a game.

It is still true though and I reckon people who want VR removed just wanna cap sooner - but for what?

So someone should have it easier than the more experienced player because.....?

Also everyone has multiple ways to get to v16 so if they CHOOSE to do it the hardest way possible. Well.

You've obviously made your point about wanting VR levels to stay. I'm really not sure why you can't understand that other players may feel differently, so much so that you attempt to discredit their opinions as soon as they're written.

So I will chalk this convo up as being similar to a political debate - nothing one side says will persuade the other. Have a great day.

Um yeah lol I was just elaborating in response to you. Wasn't trying to beat a dead horse or anything. I think it will be a huge time sink to spend time getting rid of VR when you consider everything else that needs doing but if I don't like how the game becomes, I'll just leave.

They've said they're removing VR so all of this is useless actually anyway ;-)

I wasn't trying to have a debate or Gods forbid do anything remotely close to politic.

Islyn · October 2015

americansteel wrote: »

ranks are nothing but titles names or numbers. level65 is no different than veteran rank 16 100 or one thousand. in the end you're doing the same thing playing and earning exp.

it would be nice to see the vet levels go though.

I rather see a continuing to the story line after the vestiges battle with molag bal,
meridia told us that the other daedric princes noticed what happened whats up with this?

Nothing. Because we have to wait for VR to be removed and everything to be sorted out from that.

This was my point originally.

There is 0 benefit to vet levels going other than 'nice to see the vet levels go though' because it's going to be a nightmare and watch - EVERYONE will be having a chao about it right after it happens.

wackattacka · October 2015

To try to summarize some of the above comments:

Not increasing the max level of most gear sets to VR16 needs to be fixed. This is especially problematic for jewelry.
PVP (AP-purchased) and Trials sets are all worthless now.
The account-wide aspect of Champion Points is cool for your alts (makes leveling them less painful), but there's still that issue of some players with 1000s of CP vs most others who have way less.
Some people want to play an alt to do the other factions' content instead of doing Cadwell's Silver/Gold. Some people want to play one character through all the content.
Some people want to retroactively cap the top level at 50, others want to keep it at 50 + 16.
Some people play a bunch of alts. Some people don't.
PVP Battle-Leveling is weird. See other forum posts for examples.
There are major concerns/questions about how VR level removal would actually work.
Lots of folks feel that there should be other ways to earn experience, like fishing and earning achievements.
Some folks believe that the larger experience requirements for each VR level turn people off to the game (i.e., the jump from regular levels to VR levels is jarring).

Clearly there is a lot of opinion diversity here, and there's no way for ZoS to make everyone happy; I have plenty of opinions about the matter myself.

My main hope is that they communicate well about (1) what they want to change, (2) how the changes will work, and (3) what they hope the outcomes will be. Nobody expects ZoS to predict the future, but overdoing the communication would go a long way.

[edit: changed comment on battle leveling]

Em1X · October 2015

I am new to the game... just got it recently and only on level 18. I don't know get the difference between VR vs. raising the level cap from 50 to 60?

Artjuh90 · October 2015

The Vetaran ranks aren't the real issue and i even like them.
the real issue is the content lacking to make it fun to get max level.
I don't mind doing the cadwell story lines, but there is a large playerbase (especially the pvp playerbase) who doesn't.
if they make the experince gained in pvp and questing in the DLC area's more rewarding then reaching max level will feel less like a grind to these people.
the real grind is 501 CP. though yet i don't hear them complaining abaut that... which i don't understand i takes WAY more exp to get 501 cp on you account then 2 vet 16's but thats just me not understanding a large playerbase.

Shardaxx · October 2015

It's a very linear progression but my character really started to shine for me during the veteran ranks. They are just more levels though, I'm not sure why its not just a 65 level cap instead.

vaagventje17eb17_ESO · October 2015

SO remove vr ranks, and what raise levels?

this wont jsut stop at level 50 the game then, then it wil become level 60-70 or wel if you look at how much xp, i should be levle 150 ish, that we all go up to, and stil just as long of a grind, the difference between a level 50, adn a vr 16, are you really complaining in here that a better gear and higher levelr player, wins over a level 50 player? are you kidding me? why would anybody levle higher, if it wouldnt give you a advantage? and wel saying progres should stop so people can catch up, wel... what about the player who did put time in to the game? who are maxed? they just need to wait so all the slow pokes or as said "casuals" ( not my words but mentiond often here) can keep up? that is unfair again to the higher players who did put there time and effort in, find a solution that benefits everyone, and not just the low levels, or the high levels., or the more or the less cp player. and iam sure zeni wil try to listen

Artjuh90 · October 2015

Shardaxx wrote: »

It's a very linear progression but my character really started to shine for me during the veteran ranks. They are just more levels though, I'm not sure why its not just a 65 level cap instead.

would kinda feel weird for new players.
you get lvl 50 pretty quick and then suddenly gettling lvl 51 takes 6x longer

vaagventje17eb17_ESO · October 2015

wackattacka wrote: »

To try to summarize some of the above comments:
Not increasing the max level of most gear sets to VR16 needs to be fixed. This is especially problematic for jewelry.

PVP (AP-purchased) and Trials sets are all worthless now.

The account-wide aspect of Champion Points is cool for your alts (makes leveling them less painful), but there's still that issue of some players with 1000s of CP vs most others who have way less.

Some people want to play an alt to do the other factions' content instead of doing Cadwell's Silver/Gold. Some people want to play one character through all the content.

Some people want to retroactively cap the top level at 50, others want to keep it at 50 + 16.

Some people play a bunch of alts. Some people don't.

PVP Battle-Leveling is weird. Bring a level 30 player into a vet-campaign and they're ridiculously tanky (though they hit like a wet noodle). When you hit VR1 and lose battle leveling, PVP becomes unplayable outside of a large group where you can focus on using crowd control abilities to make an impact.

There are major concerns/questions about how VR level removal would actually work.

Lots of folks feel that there should be other ways to earn experience, like fishing and earning achievements.

Some folks believe that the larger experience requirements for each VR level turn people off to the game (i.e., the jump from regular levels to VR levels is jarring).

Clearly there is a lot of opinion diversity here, and there's no way for ZoS to make everyone happy; I have plenty of opinions about the matter myself.

My main hope is that they communicate well about (1) what they want to change, (2) how the changes will work, and (3) what they hope the outcomes will be. Nobody expects ZoS to predict the future, but overdoing the communication would go a long way.

just as a correction, vr10, is where battle leveling ends, and uhhm, pvp is not unplayable, you just need to develop some more skils and cunning, since you are not boosted by the batlte leveling anymore. you dont need large groups, and if you dont belive it, look online on how many solo players destroy people. the rest is agreeable, but that part is a bit judgemental, or wrongly obtained personal experiance put in to play here, wich is a shame in a list full of pretty good arguments.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · October 2015

Vet levels give ZOS a mechanism for stealing all of our gear just to make us grind for the same gear at a higher level just to stay competitive.

They do these gear grinds to cover up the fact that they are trying to pad their content and make it last longer by using meaningless carrot chasing.

Removing vet levels would remove this terrible tool that brought us the most boring gear ever (agility/willpower/endurance).

We used to have 15+ endgame jewelry sets and now we have 3. ZOS hasn't updated trials, DSA or the PvP elite gear vendor to VR16 just to keep everyone grinding those same boring three sets. Now they have even less motivation to update the older content because orsinium is coming to the preplanned rescue with new gear and some marketer is telling zos to stall the updates to the old jewelry wont act as a conflict of interest.

TL;DR: Vet Levels are used for two things only. Padding thin content, and grabbing gear. Both are bad for the game. Remove Vet levels.

americansteel · October 2015

Islyn wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

ranks are nothing but titles names or numbers. level65 is no different than veteran rank 16 100 or one thousand. in the end you're doing the same thing playing and earning exp.

it would be nice to see the vet levels go though.

I rather see a continuing to the story line after the vestiges battle with molag bal,
meridia told us that the other daedric princes noticed what happened whats up with this?

Nothing. Because we have to wait for VR to be removed and everything to be sorted out from that.

This was my point originally.

There is 0 benefit to vet levels going other than 'nice to see the vet levels go though' because it's going to be a nightmare and watch - EVERYONE will be having a chao about it right after it happens.

a veteran rank system offers no benefits other then playing the game and gaining a higher title/ranking.
level65 is no different than Veteran16.

if lvl65 was here first and the veteran ranks was introduced down the road people would complain about that, just like now how there is complaining about the veteran ranks leaving down the road for lvl65. people will still complain about it either way we have to play the game no matter what.
I see benefits of vet rank removal and im looking forward to it. might even possibly smooth out gameplay. I feel as if it the game will be refreshed a bit. especially in craglorn and cyrodiil.

Hand_Bacon · October 2015

So would it be more work to remove VR's and making everything compatible to a new system or just fix the things people want so they get more out of their VR experience?

Seems removing them is throwing the baby out with the bathwater only to adopt a new baby with issues all its own.

wackattacka · October 2015

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

just as a correction, vr10, is where battle leveling ends

Sorry about my mistake! My main point about battle leveling is that it's just weird (cf http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/217748/non-vet-pvp-battle-leveling-and-you-a-hopefully-helpful-guide). I'll update the original comment.

Mettaricana · October 2015

I have been on eso since early launch and now transfeed to ps4 I been through the old vr grind and all of the tweaks to the vr levels since then I've hit the cap many times over and no matter how you try to justify them the vet levels blow like a storm conjured by sea elves. They are boring grindy wastes of time they do nothing to progress the game or prolong enjoyment infact they do just the opposite they turn into a blockade for most players. Nothing is enjoyable about redoing the same content 8 times over if your a quester just to get high enough to run endgame dungeons. It places a huge gap on pledge runners as many refuse to do the pledges as they don't wish to get boss helms for vr 2 or vr 15 we want to get the best stuff possible and we can't as everything is vet walled not to mention soon as you get a good set its worthless as it stopped at vr 14 adding 2 more vet levels a dlc is even more stupid come 5 years when its vr 30 it won't be a quick grind or even a remotely fun endeavor of any sort

Itemization really guys is it so hard to just up the cap to lvl66 and progress levels from 50 onward at a normal rate rebalance the items to progress smoother along the way simple change and lose none of your power. Because redoing cyrodil dailies and killing the same delve full of goblins in cyrodiil is not how a game should play its not a matter of work, skill, talent or anything it's a game not a way of life not a job its a game normally a object of enjoyment if me you or anyone has to grind the same enemy for 1,000,000 kills just to hit vr 16 then fool yourself into thinking this is what fun is you need to step back and look at the way you play.... This isn't korea or a foreign mmo where you have to kill 5 trillion enemies to level and vet levels tend to push players towards it. I'm so sick of hearing a friend play the game and then having beat molag and then wait another 2-4months for him or her to hit vr 16 (if they dont get bored and ditch eso) because some of us aren't lifeless lumps that play 18 hours a day just to show we can hit the cap in a day. And before i hear that one or two guys that brag i gained a vet level in an hour no one cares we are not you we definitly dont wanna be you or hear about your super secret spot hidden somewhere in the game that you hole up in for 12 hours a day just to brag about we are talking about the levels as a whole and why they need to go. I wanna play a game with friends and do group content on a multi player game and I dunno enjoy the game? I don't wanna get off after 40 + hour work week and then bust my ass just as hard on something I bought for enjoyment. A challenging boss is fine a difficult dungeon great but the god awful mind numbing mud slog just to even level up to the point to fight the friggan boss is the problem. Life is busy prolonging the grind and adding 10hours or less of content is not fixing why players walk out the level past 50 is just boring I didn't pay for boring. its not about instant gratification its a bout progress vet levels feel like a bunch of work with minimal pay out for the effort its like I fought my way to vr 16 now lets grind 700 ingots just to make a 20 points difference in armor rating... boring.

Thats my two cents now lets hear it from that one troll guy who wants to use grammar, punctuation, and sentence structure as his argument against me.

Waffennacht · October 2015

It does take a long time to max out the levels, for me it takes 2 or 3 days to gain a VR level, sometimes just one day. So on average it would take a similar player 2 to 3 weeks to go from vet 1 to vet 16. Which I don't find problem

I am said I'm almost 16 as I enjoy facing higher leveled opponents.

Islyn · October 2015

americansteel wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

ranks are nothing but titles names or numbers. level65 is no different than veteran rank 16 100 or one thousand. in the end you're doing the same thing playing and earning exp.

it would be nice to see the vet levels go though.

I rather see a continuing to the story line after the vestiges battle with molag bal,
meridia told us that the other daedric princes noticed what happened whats up with this?

Nothing. Because we have to wait for VR to be removed and everything to be sorted out from that.

This was my point originally.

There is 0 benefit to vet levels going other than 'nice to see the vet levels go though' because it's going to be a nightmare and watch - EVERYONE will be having a chao about it right after it happens.

a veteran rank system offers no benefits other then playing the game and gaining a higher title/ranking.
level65 is no different than Veteran16.

if lvl65 was here first and the veteran ranks was introduced down the road people would complain about that, just like now how there is complaining about the veteran ranks leaving down the road for lvl65. people will still complain about it either way we have to play the game no matter what.
I see benefits of vet rank removal and im looking forward to it. might even possibly smooth out gameplay. I feel as if it the game will be refreshed a bit. especially in craglorn and cyrodiil.

I don't disagree. I just think the drudgery of doing it NOW seems stupid.

What about all the bugs, load screen, LAAAAAGGGGG omg, content, Theives' Guild, and other stuff?

An intensive bunch of work and updates for basically no real point.

People with less experience will still be worse than people with more no matter what name they slap on it.

That's all.

TalonShina · October 2015

Don't get rid of them
leave it as V16 and use the CP system to continue progression from there
Scale trials and drops from trials

maybe figure out a way for gear upgrade to the next Vet level etc.

All of you crying you want them removed I think you'll be even more disappointed once they do. There are so many ways it could go wrong. And for those saying just changed it to like level 70 NEWSFLASH that doesn't really remove them it just renames them

FatKidHatchets · October 2015

If they remove Veteran Rankso be it. Personally,I would like to see things continue as is adding new ranks every couple of patches. New gear to scale with those ranks. And more difficult content to match.

Van_0S · October 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

I don't either.

I don't see the beef with them.

If we got a toon maxed and geared within a week (which is super easy to hit 50) then people would get bored and stop playing.

It takes like 3 weeks to get vr16 anyway if you spend 3-4 hours a day on average playing grinding .

I fixed that word for you.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · October 2015

Battle leveling is weird. I doubt we'd have battle leveling if we didnt have two vertical progression systems running at the same time. I fully believe the champ system is vertical progression and not horizontal (which would be super cool). Two vertical systems running at the same time means more really clunky systems to normalize balance. No more clunk.

Hand_Bacon · October 2015

I for one would like to thank everyone who has sacrificed themselves, their time and their enjoyment progressing their characters through the torment that are the VRs. If it weren't for you, the rest of us wouldn't know how to enjoy ourselves properly.

Prabooo · October 2015

adriant1978 wrote: »

Because I have a lot of alts and neither the time nor patience to individually grind them all to VR16.

CP are account-wide, so I'd rather see those used for itemization post-level 50.

and of course, the solution is nerfing all of the time and patience that the rest of us put into their veteran chars...

Gidorick · October 2015

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

SO remove vr ranks, and what raise levels?

this wont jsut stop at level 50 the game then, then it wil become level 60-70 or wel if you look at how much xp, i should be levle 150 ish, that we all go up to, and stil just as long of a grind, the difference between a level 50, adn a vr 16, are you really complaining in here that a better gear and higher levelr player, wins over a level 50 player? are you kidding me? why would anybody levle higher, if it wouldnt give you a advantage? and wel saying progres should stop so people can catch up, wel... what about the player who did put time in to the game? who are maxed? they just need to wait so all the slow pokes or as said "casuals" ( not my words but mentiond often here) can keep up? that is unfair again to the higher players who did put there time and effort in, find a solution that benefits everyone, and not just the low levels, or the high levels., or the more or the less cp player. and iam sure zeni wil try to listen

Exactly @vaagventje17eb17_ESO I outlined how the XP works out here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept

Pretty much, it works out to 30 more levels.

Defilted · October 2015

Based on the video that is linked in this forum, they are removing and replacing with the champion system. I really do not have an issue with this at all. I play a Vet 16 Sroc. As long as the game experience is the same or better I am fine with this.

grammar

Shardaxx · October 2015

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

It's a very linear progression but my character really started to shine for me during the veteran ranks. They are just more levels though, I'm not sure why its not just a 65 level cap instead.

would kinda feel weird for new players.
you get lvl 50 pretty quick and then suddenly gettling lvl 51 takes 6x longer

Well that's true, good point.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Aside from the obvious silver and gold feedback...removing the vet ranks opens up the whole game.
-There is no need for a leveling system that breaks away from the normal levels but also is broken away from the champion system which provides a much longer growth opportunity without making new players feel confused.

-The dungeons are consolidated into a dungeon so that the devs can focus on more content and not so much on a normal and a harder version of each dungeon but instead, they can offer CP scaling to dungeons. This also helps the grouping tools.

-for those who make alts, it provides opportunities to start-over but not start from scratch so to speak.

-It offers friends who may join an experienced friend to catch up reasonably fast or allows the friend who has played for a long time to re-roll and be more viable and helpful to the new friends

-PvP is streamlined and no longer separated by Vet and Non-vet campaigns

-The overall design of new DLC is immediately available to all vs the dev team spending extra time trying to create content for normal and vet or picking one over the other

-Lastly...vet never did anything that helped the game out....its only added gaps and time syncs in order to delay a person from reaching max level while dlc was being worked on.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · October 2015

I don't want them gone, but that's just my opinion.