They also cranked up XP's for quest turn in, and some of the smaller side quests give a ridiculous amount of XP as long as they're in a Vet zone - any Vet zone.

I have a VR9 that just unlocked Gold. I'm now doubling back and doing the smaller 1-5 stuff, completing the dolmens, etc.

There is absolutely no reason to increase VR rank attainment any more than they already have. If it's too slow, as already mentioned, Sub (+10%), Mara (+10%), and XP scroll.

You can get 1/2 a million XP's a day (not counting enlightenment) simply by doing the Cyrodiil PvE dailies...50 @ about 10k each.

The short version is, because it's not necessary.

There is, at most a difference of 15 Vet levels between two people with VR characters.

Fifteen.

In PvP, that portion of things is compensated for considerably by Battle Leveling, making the difference much less relevant, especially when factoring in the changes to how gear and level difference will be adjusted for with the new battle leveling method they're going to introduce.

So, given that it is far from difficult to obtain at least one VR character, which then gives you the ability to start earning CP's, the reasonable rate of (VR) advancement after that is relevant.

After obtaining that one VR, then CP's kick in, and the catch up mechanic becomes tremendous.

CP's, especially large amounts of them, make considerably more impact on a character, Vet or otherwise, than level differences do.

The catchup ensures there is not a large disparity, at any point in time, to the amount ZoS deems acceptable for the content and current cap.

It allows those gaps to become less, much faster, via CP's then they can via VR's. At the same time, VR levels will continue to be gained regardless.

And the CP difference does make a difference on all characters. It's how my lower VR characters are able to breeze through content well above level, including Craglorn.

So, while there may be a big difference between VR5 and VR16, there is a much bigger difference between <100 CP's and 300-500 CP's, which is where the largest disparity lays.

This is what the catch up mechanic is to address. The difference in VR levels pales in comparison, and will remedy itself naturally. It will only ever take 16 VR levels worth of XP's to max. The seasonal cap, however, will vary according to how far "behind" you are or are not.

With only 16 levels, it's simply not necessary.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

....lots of responses to players thoughts on making VR less or shorter of a task but almost none on why CP was given a catch up and not VR's


Also it's odd that so many assume I'm not well into VR's (I hit VR16 over the weekend but was Vr15 when posting this)

It's really just a conversation to provoke thought and invite ZOS to discuss why one without the other.

People hit v16 pretty quickly now so there is no need for non-linear catch up. It takes years to get to 3600 cp. This is really not a complicated issue. There is nothing interesting to discuss here.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The short version is, because it's not necessary.

There is, at most a difference of 15 Vet levels between two people with VR characters.

Fifteen.

In PvP, that portion of things is compensated for considerably by Battle Leveling, making the difference much less relevant, especially when factoring in the changes to how gear and level difference will be adjusted for with the new battle leveling method they're going to introduce.

So, given that it is far from difficult to obtain at least one VR character, which then gives you the ability to start earning CP's, the reasonable rate of (VR) advancement after that is relevant.

After obtaining that one VR, then CP's kick in, and the catch up mechanic becomes tremendous.

CP's, especially large amounts of them, make considerably more impact on a character, Vet or otherwise, than level differences do.

The catchup ensures there is not a large disparity, at any point in time, to the amount ZoS deems acceptable for the content and current cap.

It allows those gaps to become less, much faster, via CP's then they can via VR's. At the same time, VR levels will continue to be gained regardless.

And the CP difference does make a difference on all characters. It's how my lower VR characters are able to breeze through content well above level, including Craglorn.

So, while there may be a big difference between VR5 and VR16, there is a much bigger difference between <100 CP's and 300-500 CP's, which is where the largest disparity lays.

This is what the catch up mechanic is to address. The difference in VR levels pales in comparison, and will remedy itself naturally. It will only ever take 16 VR levels worth of XP's to max. The seasonal cap, however, will vary according to how far "behind" you are or are not.

With only 16 levels, it's simply not necessary.

You're only looking at this for a Orsinium update.

Upon the next cap and the third the difference of both VR and CP's are greater and greater due to the acceleration of how fast players will now earn CP's but while the VR remain largely unchanged.

I'm asking....what's the thought behind this?
I'm not asking why VR doesn't have a catchup but considering ZOS is literally creating a larger gap for CP's what is the idea going on

It's different if this comes and Vr goes away....but ZOS is literally creating a larger CP gap for some and so in PvP what happens now is a non bet character is playing with 300+ CP's vs 50-90 CPs

The VR account holders further distance themselves while gaining VR's as normal the battle level adjusts PvP so a CP catch isn't needed at all. Just a lower CP cap in PvP or just remove them from certain campaigns

Make sense?

ZOS is NOT creating a larger gap for CPs for anyone, literally or figuratively. Do the math. Even if you are at 300+ CP.

You are confusing their lower rate of CP accumulation with increasing a gap. The is no basis for that comment whatsoever. They are still accumulating CP much faster than anyone with more CP than them. The only loss for people over 300+ CP is their absolute rate of CP accumulation, not their relative rate of CP accumulation.

The only side effect close to what you are saying is that if someone lagging behind decides to grind CP for a month, their diminishing returns will get so bad that it will be harder for them to catch a former CP grinder with 1k CP who decided to stop grinding due to diminishing returns. This is misleading though since without the CP catch up system, they likely would have kept grinding and kept their lead.

In summary, it is reasonable to complain that the update will cause people with 300+ CP to have to get a lot more XP to hit cap than it would take now. It is not reasonable to complain that it will increase the CP gap.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The short version is, because it's not necessary.

There is, at most a difference of 15 Vet levels between two people with VR characters.

Fifteen.

In PvP, that portion of things is compensated for considerably by Battle Leveling, making the difference much less relevant, especially when factoring in the changes to how gear and level difference will be adjusted for with the new battle leveling method they're going to introduce.

So, given that it is far from difficult to obtain at least one VR character, which then gives you the ability to start earning CP's, the reasonable rate of (VR) advancement after that is relevant.

After obtaining that one VR, then CP's kick in, and the catch up mechanic becomes tremendous.

CP's, especially large amounts of them, make considerably more impact on a character, Vet or otherwise, than level differences do.

The catchup ensures there is not a large disparity, at any point in time, to the amount ZoS deems acceptable for the content and current cap.

It allows those gaps to become less, much faster, via CP's then they can via VR's. At the same time, VR levels will continue to be gained regardless.

And the CP difference does make a difference on all characters. It's how my lower VR characters are able to breeze through content well above level, including Craglorn.

So, while there may be a big difference between VR5 and VR16, there is a much bigger difference between <100 CP's and 300-500 CP's, which is where the largest disparity lays.

This is what the catch up mechanic is to address. The difference in VR levels pales in comparison, and will remedy itself naturally. It will only ever take 16 VR levels worth of XP's to max. The seasonal cap, however, will vary according to how far "behind" you are or are not.

With only 16 levels, it's simply not necessary.

You're only looking at this for a Orsinium update.

Upon the next cap and the third the difference of both VR and CP's are greater and greater due to the acceleration of how fast players will now earn CP's but while the VR remain largely unchanged.

I'm asking....what's the thought behind this?
I'm not asking why VR doesn't have a catchup but considering ZOS is literally creating a larger gap for CP's what is the idea going on

It's different if this comes and Vr goes away....but ZOS is literally creating a larger CP gap for some and so in PvP what happens now is a non bet character is playing with 300+ CP's vs 50-90 CPs

The VR account holders further distance themselves while gaining VR's as normal the battle level adjusts PvP so a CP catch isn't needed at all. Just a lower CP cap in PvP or just remove them from certain campaigns

Make sense?

ZOS is NOT creating a larger gap for CPs for anyone, literally or figuratively. Do the math. Even if you are at 300+ CP.

You are confusing their lower rate of CP accumulation with increasing a gap. The is no basis for that comment whatsoever. They are still accumulating CP much faster than anyone with more CP than them. The only loss for people over 300+ CP is their absolute rate of CP accumulation, not their relative rate of CP accumulation.

The only side effect close to what you are saying is that if someone lagging behind decides to grind CP for a month, their diminishing returns will get so bad that it will be harder for them to catch a former CP grinder with 1k CP who decided to stop grinding due to diminishing returns. This is misleading though since without the CP catch up system, they likely would have kept grinding and kept their lead.

In summary, it is reasonable to complain that the update will cause people with 300+ CP to have to get a lot more XP to hit cap than it would take now. It is not reasonable to complain that it will increase the CP gap.

I believe we understand this just the same but maybe its that my point of view differs from yours.

I see what you mention and what ZOS is doing as further creating a gap from one to another in regards to CP by implementing a catch-up system for CP instead of having a lower cap of usable CP's or instead with no catch up system. What I think better sense is to remove the CP's from certain PvP campaigns and remove CP's from PvE events that have leader-boards.

Creating a system to allow people to gain CP's faster on one end of the scale and drastically slowing others on another end of the scale just pushes the average from where it is today to a higher number for all. More people with a lot more CPs clumped together doesn't really fix the issue unless everyone is the same non-CP level and where the cap stays until a very high percent reaches the 501 cap. Then whats the point of CP's...whats the point of ZOS providing the VR exp to be converted to CP's if your going to close the gap for the work of those who are far ahead. If you're going to remove their pace, then just reduce their effectiveness...giving others more CP's isn't the fix to the problem. The problem is that some people know how to level faster, some have more time than others...so one way to fix a perceived issue is to remove the CP's from problem circumstances.

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The short version is, because it's not necessary.

There is, at most a difference of 15 Vet levels between two people with VR characters.

Fifteen.

In PvP, that portion of things is compensated for considerably by Battle Leveling, making the difference much less relevant, especially when factoring in the changes to how gear and level difference will be adjusted for with the new battle leveling method they're going to introduce.

So, given that it is far from difficult to obtain at least one VR character, which then gives you the ability to start earning CP's, the reasonable rate of (VR) advancement after that is relevant.

After obtaining that one VR, then CP's kick in, and the catch up mechanic becomes tremendous.

CP's, especially large amounts of them, make considerably more impact on a character, Vet or otherwise, than level differences do.

The catchup ensures there is not a large disparity, at any point in time, to the amount ZoS deems acceptable for the content and current cap.

It allows those gaps to become less, much faster, via CP's then they can via VR's. At the same time, VR levels will continue to be gained regardless.

And the CP difference does make a difference on all characters. It's how my lower VR characters are able to breeze through content well above level, including Craglorn.

So, while there may be a big difference between VR5 and VR16, there is a much bigger difference between <100 CP's and 300-500 CP's, which is where the largest disparity lays.

This is what the catch up mechanic is to address. The difference in VR levels pales in comparison, and will remedy itself naturally. It will only ever take 16 VR levels worth of XP's to max. The seasonal cap, however, will vary according to how far "behind" you are or are not.

With only 16 levels, it's simply not necessary.

You're only looking at this for a Orsinium update.

Upon the next cap and the third the difference of both VR and CP's are greater and greater due to the acceleration of how fast players will now earn CP's but while the VR remain largely unchanged.

I'm asking....what's the thought behind this?
I'm not asking why VR doesn't have a catchup but considering ZOS is literally creating a larger gap for CP's what is the idea going on

It's different if this comes and Vr goes away....but ZOS is literally creating a larger CP gap for some and so in PvP what happens now is a non bet character is playing with 300+ CP's vs 50-90 CPs

The VR account holders further distance themselves while gaining VR's as normal the battle level adjusts PvP so a CP catch isn't needed at all. Just a lower CP cap in PvP or just remove them from certain campaigns

Make sense?

ZOS is NOT creating a larger gap for CPs for anyone, literally or figuratively. Do the math. Even if you are at 300+ CP.

You are confusing their lower rate of CP accumulation with increasing a gap. The is no basis for that comment whatsoever. They are still accumulating CP much faster than anyone with more CP than them. The only loss for people over 300+ CP is their absolute rate of CP accumulation, not their relative rate of CP accumulation.

The only side effect close to what you are saying is that if someone lagging behind decides to grind CP for a month, their diminishing returns will get so bad that it will be harder for them to catch a former CP grinder with 1k CP who decided to stop grinding due to diminishing returns. This is misleading though since without the CP catch up system, they likely would have kept grinding and kept their lead.

In summary, it is reasonable to complain that the update will cause people with 300+ CP to have to get a lot more XP to hit cap than it would take now. It is not reasonable to complain that it will increase the CP gap.

I believe we understand this just the same but maybe its that my point of view differs from yours.

I see what you mention and what ZOS is doing as further creating a gap from one to another in regards to CP by implementing a catch-up system for CP instead of having a lower cap of usable CP's or instead with no catch up system. What I think better sense is to remove the CP's from certain PvP campaigns and remove CP's from PvE events that have leader-boards.

Creating a system to allow people to gain CP's faster on one end of the scale and drastically slowing others on another end of the scale just pushes the average from where it is today to a higher number for all. More people with a lot more CPs clumped together doesn't really fix the issue unless everyone is the same non-CP level and where the cap stays until a very high percent reaches the 501 cap. Then whats the point of CP's...whats the point of ZOS providing the VR exp to be converted to CP's if your going to close the gap for the work of those who are far ahead. If you're going to remove their pace, then just reduce their effectiveness...giving others more CP's isn't the fix to the problem. The problem is that some people know how to level faster, some have more time than others...so one way to fix a perceived issue is to remove the CP's from problem circumstances.

Yeah, but why should players who are interessed in leaderboards care about CP then? Doesn't make sense...
I am gainst certain things of your charakter which functions different in special parts of PVE or PVP. The feature would be necessary for lots of players. I don't think it would be a good idea.

Let's say those interested in leaderboards do care about CP's (I assume those with lots of CP's already would be very competitive on any leaderboard respectively). As is, ZOS removes those players incentive to care about CP's with this

That's why I'm posing the question of what's the thought process as these players are above the max and start out day 1 at the top anyways. Maybe overtime you slow their progress down to match with others but why if you already have a max. Some suggest to slow them down but using the example of those few who have 1200+ and know the next cap will be 200-300 more, it'll be a long time before we reach them

Why would they stay?
What's ZOS thought process around penalizing your most dedicated players?

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The short version is, because it's not necessary.

There is, at most a difference of 15 Vet levels between two people with VR characters.

Fifteen.

In PvP, that portion of things is compensated for considerably by Battle Leveling, making the difference much less relevant, especially when factoring in the changes to how gear and level difference will be adjusted for with the new battle leveling method they're going to introduce.

So, given that it is far from difficult to obtain at least one VR character, which then gives you the ability to start earning CP's, the reasonable rate of (VR) advancement after that is relevant.

After obtaining that one VR, then CP's kick in, and the catch up mechanic becomes tremendous.

CP's, especially large amounts of them, make considerably more impact on a character, Vet or otherwise, than level differences do.

The catchup ensures there is not a large disparity, at any point in time, to the amount ZoS deems acceptable for the content and current cap.

It allows those gaps to become less, much faster, via CP's then they can via VR's. At the same time, VR levels will continue to be gained regardless.

And the CP difference does make a difference on all characters. It's how my lower VR characters are able to breeze through content well above level, including Craglorn.

So, while there may be a big difference between VR5 and VR16, there is a much bigger difference between <100 CP's and 300-500 CP's, which is where the largest disparity lays.

This is what the catch up mechanic is to address. The difference in VR levels pales in comparison, and will remedy itself naturally. It will only ever take 16 VR levels worth of XP's to max. The seasonal cap, however, will vary according to how far "behind" you are or are not.

With only 16 levels, it's simply not necessary.

You're only looking at this for a Orsinium update.

Upon the next cap and the third the difference of both VR and CP's are greater and greater due to the acceleration of how fast players will now earn CP's but while the VR remain largely unchanged.

I'm asking....what's the thought behind this?
I'm not asking why VR doesn't have a catchup but considering ZOS is literally creating a larger gap for CP's what is the idea going on

It's different if this comes and Vr goes away....but ZOS is literally creating a larger CP gap for some and so in PvP what happens now is a non bet character is playing with 300+ CP's vs 50-90 CPs

The VR account holders further distance themselves while gaining VR's as normal the battle level adjusts PvP so a CP catch isn't needed at all. Just a lower CP cap in PvP or just remove them from certain campaigns

Make sense?

ZOS is NOT creating a larger gap for CPs for anyone, literally or figuratively. Do the math. Even if you are at 300+ CP.

You are confusing their lower rate of CP accumulation with increasing a gap. The is no basis for that comment whatsoever. They are still accumulating CP much faster than anyone with more CP than them. The only loss for people over 300+ CP is their absolute rate of CP accumulation, not their relative rate of CP accumulation.

The only side effect close to what you are saying is that if someone lagging behind decides to grind CP for a month, their diminishing returns will get so bad that it will be harder for them to catch a former CP grinder with 1k CP who decided to stop grinding due to diminishing returns. This is misleading though since without the CP catch up system, they likely would have kept grinding and kept their lead.

In summary, it is reasonable to complain that the update will cause people with 300+ CP to have to get a lot more XP to hit cap than it would take now. It is not reasonable to complain that it will increase the CP gap.

I believe we understand this just the same but maybe its that my point of view differs from yours.

I see what you mention and what ZOS is doing as further creating a gap from one to another in regards to CP by implementing a catch-up system for CP instead of having a lower cap of usable CP's or instead with no catch up system. What I think better sense is to remove the CP's from certain PvP campaigns and remove CP's from PvE events that have leader-boards.

Creating a system to allow people to gain CP's faster on one end of the scale and drastically slowing others on another end of the scale just pushes the average from where it is today to a higher number for all. More people with a lot more CPs clumped together doesn't really fix the issue unless everyone is the same non-CP level and where the cap stays until a very high percent reaches the 501 cap. Then whats the point of CP's...whats the point of ZOS providing the VR exp to be converted to CP's if your going to close the gap for the work of those who are far ahead. If you're going to remove their pace, then just reduce their effectiveness...giving others more CP's isn't the fix to the problem. The problem is that some people know how to level faster, some have more time than others...so one way to fix a perceived issue is to remove the CP's from problem circumstances.

So have CP as end game progression but don't make them work in endgame? Than what is the point of CP?

VR levels are end game progression not CP's.
Until the VR levels are removed properly, they are the end game and how content, NPC and items are set up. CP's aren't how they are setup so I don't follow why you're saying have CP as endgame progression.

Regarding why CP's shouldn't apply to certain PvP campaigns:
Ppl are complaining about some having more CP's and believe that's why they are underpowered. So until this catch-up system more closely aligns the CP average it just needs to be omitted from some campaigns (not all). So you have CP enabled campaigns and CP disabled campaigns.

Regarding the PvE leaderboards:
Ppl are complaining that those with a lot of CP's are going to always beat them so either remove the leaderboards or remove CP as a qualifier. This doesn't say to remove CP but if someone wanted to compete for a leaderboard spot the tiers should either be by CP's or excluding CP's

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The short version is, because it's not necessary.

There is, at most a difference of 15 Vet levels between two people with VR characters.

Fifteen.

In PvP, that portion of things is compensated for considerably by Battle Leveling, making the difference much less relevant, especially when factoring in the changes to how gear and level difference will be adjusted for with the new battle leveling method they're going to introduce.

So, given that it is far from difficult to obtain at least one VR character, which then gives you the ability to start earning CP's, the reasonable rate of (VR) advancement after that is relevant.

After obtaining that one VR, then CP's kick in, and the catch up mechanic becomes tremendous.

CP's, especially large amounts of them, make considerably more impact on a character, Vet or otherwise, than level differences do.

The catchup ensures there is not a large disparity, at any point in time, to the amount ZoS deems acceptable for the content and current cap.

It allows those gaps to become less, much faster, via CP's then they can via VR's. At the same time, VR levels will continue to be gained regardless.

And the CP difference does make a difference on all characters. It's how my lower VR characters are able to breeze through content well above level, including Craglorn.

So, while there may be a big difference between VR5 and VR16, there is a much bigger difference between <100 CP's and 300-500 CP's, which is where the largest disparity lays.

This is what the catch up mechanic is to address. The difference in VR levels pales in comparison, and will remedy itself naturally. It will only ever take 16 VR levels worth of XP's to max. The seasonal cap, however, will vary according to how far "behind" you are or are not.

With only 16 levels, it's simply not necessary.

You're only looking at this for a Orsinium update.

Upon the next cap and the third the difference of both VR and CP's are greater and greater due to the acceleration of how fast players will now earn CP's but while the VR remain largely unchanged.

I'm asking....what's the thought behind this?
I'm not asking why VR doesn't have a catchup but considering ZOS is literally creating a larger gap for CP's what is the idea going on

It's different if this comes and Vr goes away....but ZOS is literally creating a larger CP gap for some and so in PvP what happens now is a non bet character is playing with 300+ CP's vs 50-90 CPs

The VR account holders further distance themselves while gaining VR's as normal the battle level adjusts PvP so a CP catch isn't needed at all. Just a lower CP cap in PvP or just remove them from certain campaigns

Make sense?

ZOS is NOT creating a larger gap for CPs for anyone, literally or figuratively. Do the math. Even if you are at 300+ CP.

You are confusing their lower rate of CP accumulation with increasing a gap. The is no basis for that comment whatsoever. They are still accumulating CP much faster than anyone with more CP than them. The only loss for people over 300+ CP is their absolute rate of CP accumulation, not their relative rate of CP accumulation.

The only side effect close to what you are saying is that if someone lagging behind decides to grind CP for a month, their diminishing returns will get so bad that it will be harder for them to catch a former CP grinder with 1k CP who decided to stop grinding due to diminishing returns. This is misleading though since without the CP catch up system, they likely would have kept grinding and kept their lead.

In summary, it is reasonable to complain that the update will cause people with 300+ CP to have to get a lot more XP to hit cap than it would take now. It is not reasonable to complain that it will increase the CP gap.

I believe we understand this just the same but maybe its that my point of view differs from yours.

I see what you mention and what ZOS is doing as further creating a gap from one to another in regards to CP by implementing a catch-up system for CP instead of having a lower cap of usable CP's or instead with no catch up system. What I think better sense is to remove the CP's from certain PvP campaigns and remove CP's from PvE events that have leader-boards.

Creating a system to allow people to gain CP's faster on one end of the scale and drastically slowing others on another end of the scale just pushes the average from where it is today to a higher number for all. More people with a lot more CPs clumped together doesn't really fix the issue unless everyone is the same non-CP level and where the cap stays until a very high percent reaches the 501 cap. Then whats the point of CP's...whats the point of ZOS providing the VR exp to be converted to CP's if your going to close the gap for the work of those who are far ahead. If you're going to remove their pace, then just reduce their effectiveness...giving others more CP's isn't the fix to the problem. The problem is that some people know how to level faster, some have more time than others...so one way to fix a perceived issue is to remove the CP's from problem circumstances.

So have CP as end game progression but don't make them work in endgame? Than what is the point of CP?

VR levels are end game progression not CP's.
Until the VR levels are removed properly, they are the end game and how content, NPC and items are set up. CP's aren't how they are setup so I don't follow why you're saying have CP as endgame progression.

Regarding why CP's shouldn't apply to certain PvP campaigns:
Ppl are complaining about some having more CP's and believe that's why they are underpowered. So until this catch-up system more closely aligns the CP average it just needs to be omitted from some campaigns (not all). So you have CP enabled campaigns and CP disabled campaigns.

Regarding the PvE leaderboards:
Ppl are complaining that those with a lot of CP's are going to always beat them so either remove the leaderboards or remove CP as a qualifier. This doesn't say to remove CP but if someone wanted to compete for a leaderboard spot the tiers should either be by CP's or excluding CP's

If gear is based on vet level, than are you really at endgame yet if you aren't yet v16/max level?

Your suggestion makes CP pointless. The cap is sufficient. And none of this justifies discussion of vet level catch up.

VR endgame is how endgame is setup. Endgame begins at VR1 for some and VR11 for others

Uhmm I'm not suggesting that a VR catch-up is needed. I'm actually suggesting neither are needing w catch-up and more of asking what is ZOS thought process on one and not the other. Even the thought process on one at all