Waffennacht wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Go a head and list them... wait I will

Caltrops, need to do massive PvP, (after 110 days of playing only level 4 here) so far one decent (for an attacking NB)
Potions: work once if close and are rendered completely worthless there after (they can just recloak)
AoEs: well for a sorc the AoEs are either a cone shape with low likelihood of connecting, LL lmao, and bolt. Bolt is best but by far inconsistent
Curse: only works when it goes off and then they can recloak

And... and... um.. some absolutely horrid spell magelight and absolutely horrid flare

In which case even if you do use these they are hardly a guarantee to work. (Mind you this is just a reaction to them cloaking, nothing to do with the ACTUAL battle that's occuring) So while we have to have dedicated counters we also have to deal with the same buffs, damage, heals etc every other class deals with.

You act as if you do manage to counter cloak its an auto win, its not, its not even a long lasting de cloak.

Bolt almost never seems to actually get you away anymore fyi

I will agree that the escape use of cloak, and cloak itself is not the problem persai its in conjunction to the absolutely better abilities. (Offensively speaking which is the best defense remember)

Perma cloak is not an issue, just once is enough, and most use it for attacking anyway

What are you asking for here, a "Cloak Breaker" set? So none of the counters you listed are good enough for you?

Oh, wait, I see the problem here... 110 days played and only level 4 (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're referring to the skill trees)? Given that, you probably don't understand how limited the class defense options of NB's truly are.

Was your first time PvPing in IC just to get v16 mats? If I was ever gonna tell someone to L2P I would do it right now, but I won't. I'll just say that you either haven't spent enough time actually trying to counter cloak or that your reflexes/strategy/skill level just are not up to par compared to even average PvPer's.

Your opinion on PvP balance is now pretty much worthless to me, unfortunately not so with ZOS I bet. You don't have to respond to me, I'd actually rather you not, given that you just admitted that you dunno wtf you're doing in PvP.

CP5 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Because its 100% impossible that the skill would be deemed overpowered if it worked as intended since day 1. Having the skill been broken isn't justification for it to remain significantly more effective than other skills, just look at scales. Also, the world is ending? Just ask sorc's how they feel after so many nerfs, wait, people are still arguing that they are overpowered? Sure nb's will be fine.

You can probably just stop posting in "nerf Cloak" threads at this point. I think we all know your response to anything anyone has to say about this topic : "the poor sorcs got nerfed, NB's deserve it too and will be fine."

@WreckfulAbandon i really don't care what your opinion is, especially of me.

I'm asking for Nightblade users (because you are the only ones that do this) stop saying the counters that already exist are more than enough to counter an experienced nightblade player. It's a croc and everyone knows it.

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

AgentCrayon wrote: »

I don't have enough alchemy skill to make detect potions and mags light takes up a previous slot (on PS4), no idea what caltrops are either.

Maybe my build isn't the best as I never played on PC, but I genuinely think NB with the cloak skill are the hardest to fight in PVP, especially when they can heal whilst cloaked...

"when they can heal whist cloaked" the only possible way would be with an HoT that takes time to take full effect, or with a potion that has a cooldown.

Think about it, you are asking for a class without a self heal and without a damage shield, to have its main means of escape and survival be taken away. I will let you think on that and realize your mistake.

"then when it gets too much they can cloak and wait for another opportunity" this is no different than a DK using dragon blood when on low health, or a templar using one of their many heals when on low health, or a sorc using BE when on low health. Cloak is the NBs mean of survival. It only lasts 2.5 seconds and has quite a few ways of being broken(AOE attacks, magelight, flare if you can pull it off, detect pots, heck even just plain ole gap closing breaks it about half the time, or another NB with piercing mark)

You are asking for the NB to lose its ONLY METHOD of getting out of a tight spot. Playing without a decent self heal or damage shield is hard enough as it is. People do well with NBs not because they are OP; its more likely that its people that have played the NB for a VERY long time and have perfected their craft. The NB is the hardest class to play in this game, and will remain so unless it gets a decent self heal/damage shield. If you take away cloak, its only fair to give the class a self heal/damage shield to make up for it. Roll one if you must and try it for yourself.

Shadow image is a longer range teleport (compared to bolt) that doesn't require los. Place that somewhere, have the dark and transparent guy sit there as you kite those following you around a wall or any other cover, then port back to it. Or is a teleport like that, that moves you out of your enemies effective range to do anything not a method to get out of a tight spot?

Well then by all means, go ahead and try it. don't use cloak, use only shadow image and your preferred offensive abilities. you will have no cloak, no decent self heals, and no decent damage shields. You will be slaughtered, the only times you survive being because you happened to remember to plant that shade beforehand. And this would be for planned battles; you will not remember to have it ready for being jumped out in the wilderness. do not even try to say you will, you will forget if its not planned beforehand; which is the major weakness of the ability people seem to forget. Its a good ability, but only if certain things work out exactly as you planned. It does not remain forever, it could run out before an enemy pops up, leaving you to be slaughtered because you would not have cloak.

Your only kills will be from ganking unsuspecting and inexperienced players. You will stand no chance against anyone of average experience or higher. Aspect of Fear will only take you so far, and will not help you once you are down to your last chunks of health, and your only source of healing being a potion locked on a cooldown. you will have no decent self heals nor decent damage shields, so you wont be healing yourself out of it; and your defense will be terrible unless you go the 1H and shield route(but then your damage will be low;, so it will make no difference, as the enemy will just wear you down). And, since you will have no cloak, you will have no way out of it. shadow image will not help you at that point. you will either have forgotten it even existed as you desperately try to roll dodge away, or you will have forgotten to set it up, which I promise you will do most of the time.

Or don't. Don't give it a go. It does not matter, as the nerfs will come regardless. Once NBs become the weakest class in the game because of these nerfs and the community is in an uproar, all the people calling cloak OP will finally realize the truth. Heck that would also be a blessing in disguise, as it would prompt ZOS to give the class a decent self heal/damage shield at long last.

Well if the challenge is to use only class skills and nothing else I would say NB's still offer the most varity, even if cloak were taken out of the equation. The class has 2 ways to generally function, high burst (2 of the nb's heals are burst based and are % max health) or just outlasting your enemies (most other heals are hots). Combine those with the wide array of hard cc's, buffs and resource sustain and you can come up with many colorful combinations that don't require cloak as a crutch.

Now if you were to tell another class to go only with class skills (which is what I am guessing you are saying by having no shields/heals when in reality a nb with a resto staff is very challenging to kill) how much varity do you think there would be in other builds? We've all seen the same old sorc burst build time and time again, wonder why.

I've also seen a few decent NB videos recently and they do in fact use 1H. They do use cloak as well, the dot clearing/tab target wiping/magicka based dodge roll/mob evading/combat disengage is challenging to give up, i'm sure. But with a skill like that, in the right hands, do you really think nb's as a class will get anything else to help them ween off their excessive use of cloak so that you can justify not using it at all times?

Here is the error with your logic; a majority of the NB sustain abilities, are magicka based. NOT EVERY NIGHTBLADE IS A MANABLADE. this is something you and(I am not exaggerating) every other person complaining about NB cloak spam seems to forget. As a stamblade, I CANNOT USE A RESTO STAFF. Meaning I have NO effective self heals. the only damage shield I have access to is the fighters guild one, which is ineffective because it scales off of max health, and most stam blades have to put most everything into stamina. Cloak is my only means of survival, which I can cast 3-4 times max, ASSUMING I do not use something like Fear with it.(there is also the restrictive teleport that you seem to think is a great substitute for cloak) and you people want cloak nerfed?? Do you guys even TAKE stam blades into consideration with these complaints, or is you guy's hate for magicka NBs that strong?

You gave scenarios about a NB using 1H, and being able to do well in the battle; WITH cloak. You have failed to see my point. "justify not using it at all times" here is my justification and response to that comment. I. Am. A. Stamina. Nightblade. I. Cannot. spam. cloak. Not. Every. Nightblade. Is. Magicka. Based next point

"2 of the NB heals are burst based " that's it CP, im done. No offense intended, but trying to pass off leeching strikes and strife as efficient self heals shows you do not know what you are talking about. I apologize if I sound like a condescending jerk while saying this, but it's the truth. Try out your tactics then come back and talk to me. Until then, nothing I say will have any impact. Good luck and have a nice day.

Xeven wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

AgentCrayon wrote: »

I don't have enough alchemy skill to make detect potions and mags light takes up a previous slot (on PS4), no idea what caltrops are either.

Maybe my build isn't the best as I never played on PC, but I genuinely think NB with the cloak skill are the hardest to fight in PVP, especially when they can heal whilst cloaked...

"when they can heal whist cloaked" the only possible way would be with an HoT that takes time to take full effect, or with a potion that has a cooldown.

Think about it, you are asking for a class without a self heal and without a damage shield, to have its main means of escape and survival be taken away. I will let you think on that and realize your mistake.

"then when it gets too much they can cloak and wait for another opportunity" this is no different than a DK using dragon blood when on low health, or a templar using one of their many heals when on low health, or a sorc using BE when on low health. Cloak is the NBs mean of survival. It only lasts 2.5 seconds and has quite a few ways of being broken(AOE attacks, magelight, flare if you can pull it off, detect pots, heck even just plain ole gap closing breaks it about half the time, or another NB with piercing mark)

You are asking for the NB to lose its ONLY METHOD of getting out of a tight spot. Playing without a decent self heal or damage shield is hard enough as it is. People do well with NBs not because they are OP; its more likely that its people that have played the NB for a VERY long time and have perfected their craft. The NB is the hardest class to play in this game, and will remain so unless it gets a decent self heal/damage shield. If you take away cloak, its only fair to give the class a self heal/damage shield to make up for it. Roll one if you must and try it for yourself.

Shadow image is a longer range teleport (compared to bolt) that doesn't require los. Place that somewhere, have the dark and transparent guy sit there as you kite those following you around a wall or any other cover, then port back to it. Or is a teleport like that, that moves you out of your enemies effective range to do anything not a method to get out of a tight spot?

Well then by all means, go ahead and try it. don't use cloak, use only shadow image and your preferred offensive abilities. you will have no cloak, no decent self heals, and no decent damage shields. You will be slaughtered, the only times you survive being because you happened to remember to plant that shade beforehand. And this would be for planned battles; you will not remember to have it ready for being jumped out in the wilderness. do not even try to say you will, you will forget if its not planned beforehand; which is the major weakness of the ability people seem to forget. Its a good ability, but only if certain things work out exactly as you planned. It does not remain forever, it could run out before an enemy pops up, leaving you to be slaughtered because you would not have cloak.

Your only kills will be from ganking unsuspecting and inexperienced players. You will stand no chance against anyone of average experience or higher. Aspect of Fear will only take you so far, and will not help you once you are down to your last chunks of health, and your only source of healing being a potion locked on a cooldown. you will have no decent self heals nor decent damage shields, so you wont be healing yourself out of it; and your defense will be terrible unless you go the 1H and shield route(but then your damage will be low;, so it will make no difference, as the enemy will just wear you down). And, since you will have no cloak, you will have no way out of it. shadow image will not help you at that point. you will either have forgotten it even existed as you desperately try to roll dodge away, or you will have forgotten to set it up, which I promise you will do most of the time.

Or don't. Don't give it a go. It does not matter, as the nerfs will come regardless. Once NBs become the weakest class in the game because of these nerfs and the community is in an uproar, all the people calling cloak OP will finally realize the truth. Heck that would also be a blessing in disguise, as it would prompt ZOS to give the class a decent self heal/damage shield at long last.

Well if the challenge is to use only class skills and nothing else I would say NB's still offer the most varity, even if cloak were taken out of the equation. The class has 2 ways to generally function, high burst (2 of the nb's heals are burst based and are % max health) or just outlasting your enemies (most other heals are hots). Combine those with the wide array of hard cc's, buffs and resource sustain and you can come up with many colorful combinations that don't require cloak as a crutch.

Now if you were to tell another class to go only with class skills (which is what I am guessing you are saying by having no shields/heals when in reality a nb with a resto staff is very challenging to kill) how much varity do you think there would be in other builds? We've all seen the same old sorc burst build time and time again, wonder why.

I've also seen a few decent NB videos recently and they do in fact use 1H. They do use cloak as well, the dot clearing/tab target wiping/magicka based dodge roll/mob evading/combat disengage is challenging to give up, i'm sure. But with a skill like that, in the right hands, do you really think nb's as a class will get anything else to help them ween off their excessive use of cloak so that you can justify not using it at all times?

Here is the error with your logic; a majority of the NB sustain abilities, are magicka based. NOT EVERY NIGHTBLADE IS A MANABLADE. this is something you and(I am not exaggerating) every other person complaining about NB cloak spam seems to forget. As a stamblade, I CANNOT USE A RESTO STAFF. Meaning I have NO effective self heals. the only damage shield I have access to is the fighters guild one, which is ineffective because it scales off of max health, and most stam blades have to put most everything into stamina. Cloak is my only means of survival, which I can cast 3-4 times max, ASSUMING I do not use something like Fear with it.(there is also the restrictive teleport that you seem to think is a great substitute for cloak) and you people want cloak nerfed?? Do you guys even TAKE stam blades into consideration with these complaints, or is you guy's hate for magicka NBs that strong?

You gave scenarios about a NB using 1H, and being able to do well in the battle; WITH cloak. You have failed to see my point. "justify not using it at all times" here is my justification and response to that comment. I. Am. A. Stamina. Nightblade. I. Cannot. spam. cloak. Not. Every. Nightblade. Is. Magicka. Based next point

"2 of the NB heals are burst based " that's it CP, im done. No offense intended, but trying to pass off leeching strikes and strife as efficient self heals shows you do not know what you are talking about. I apologize if I sound like a condescending jerk while saying this, but it's the truth. Try out your tactics then come back and talk to me. Until then, nothing I say will have any impact. Good luck and have a nice day.

I didnt read your whole post because your argument is flawed. It doesn't matter if you're a stam blade. Bolt Escape got nerfed to s*** and stam sorcs just have to deal with it. That is the choice you made when you rolled stam.

All NB can stand in a flare and cloak. All NB can move at light speed while cloaked. Mageblades can cloak forever. Magelight detect radius is troll worthy and if the NB is bosmer or wearing medium armor (you), forget it. Magelight is s***. Detect pots got nerfed to s***, cost money, and use up an otherwise useful buff slot on my potion.

There is no f***ing counter to cloak although every single NB in favor of this absurd ability will sit there with a straight face and tell you that there is.

EDIT:

You guys dont even NEED cloak! You're a goddamned tanky dps powerhouse. L2P.